Rogers Cup Thread

[The Special Juan]

First topic message reminder :

There doesn't seem to be a Rogers Cup thread up so I thought I'd stick one up. I suppose the biggest question is "How will the Djokovic, Murray and Del Potro do after competing in the Olympics on Sunday?"

Looking at the draw ( http://www.rogerscup.com/men/english/singlesDraw.php ) Tomic could play Djokovic 2nd round, Del Potro v Stepanek/Dolgopolov 2nd round and Murray v Raonic 3rd round possibly.

[laverfan]

Djokovic holds 4-1.

[laverfan]

Djokovic needs to keep his foot on the gas.

[laverfan]

Djokovic holds 5-2.

[laverfan]

Haas dumps his FH on BP in the net. Deuce. Haas goes wide. MP for Djokovic.

Haas with a DTL BH. Deuce. Haas error on BH. MP Strange volley by Djokovic which is wide as Hawkeye shows. Deuce. Haas volley long. MP. Djokovic wins.

Strange to see Djokovic having trouble closing matches and sets. Is that a key difference between 2011 and 2012?

[socal1976]

Laverfan he has lost a lot of close sets this year that he was winning. That little bit of confidence and committing fully to the shots. Most of his losses he has had chances in the sets that he has lost, a lot of chances. I am sure it will click for him soon.

[HM Murdock]

Strange to see Djokovic having trouble closing matches and sets. Is that a key difference between 2011 and 2012?

Yes, a big difference!

It's strange, under the pressure of being behind, he still seems to play relatively well. It's the pressure of being in front or on serve that he seems to struggle with. The Olympics v Murray was a good example. Played well for both sets until it got to 6-5 and then produced a poor game on his serve. The double faults v Rafa at the FO were another costly example.

I wonder if the difference is he plays on instinct when behind but more 'deliberately' at other times?

[lydian]

This event must nearly be a shoe-in for Djokovic now.
Raonic was awful, and backs up my thought that he's going backwards not forwards. His raison d'être - the serve - was awful, trying to kick up high against Isner is a waste of time. He's another for me, like Kohli, who doesn't do a lot of thinking out there...this is what separates the top guys, they adjust their games and plans in real time. Wi Raonic you feel he just goes out there and plays the same way come what may, he just hopes form will carry him through.
Fish looked knackered at start of 2nd set...he floundered thereafter.

[Guest]

Watched the 3 matches on Sky +

Haas played well and gave a real good account of himself. The BH didn't let him down. Djokovic had the odd dip in match, he was stretched. Looking at the rest of the field, not sure anyone can push him. Isner perhaps.

Isner played well in his 2 matches and Raonic was poor. Cannot return for taffy. I fear for him in the next couple of years.

I think it will be a Isner/Djokovic final.

PS I was pleased to see Fish play well. Still not fully fit. Couldn't hold his serve after the breaks.

[laverfan]

I would not be surprised if Isner wins his first Masters.

[Danny_1982]

Rain delay for Novak v Tipsy.

Sky are showing the third set of Rafa v Novak from last years US open. One of my favourite sets of tennis ever. Incredible athleticism, length and some brutal rallies. Tremendous stuff.

[lydian]

Yeah real shame about the rain...gonna have to 'tape' it then watch over the cornflakes tomorrow morning. Rumours seem to suggest all it not well in the Djokovic camp though, family issues of some sort.

[laverfan]

I am watching Haas-Djokovic from last night. Haas played well.

[Danny_1982]

Family issues Lydian?

Elaborate. What have you heard?

[lydian]

Read people were alleging his parents are splitting up (which would be a shame if true).
Also saw some scurrilous comments on a YouTube video of last nights Djokovic/Haas match...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yt2VBAqrqc
All probably complete idle rumourmongering rubbish of course...you wonder where these stories come from at times. But then again some on here might say I'm no better in giving the tittle-tattle the oxygen of life as well

A lot of this speculation seems to stem from a lot of people feeling Djokovic has been very emotionally charged for a few months now with unexpected outbursts during matches and apparently he reacted to someone in the audience last night shouting something to him. Again probably all rubbish, can't say I've noticed that much but then I don't follow him to any great degree beyond watching some of his matches.

[laverfan]

There was an exchange between the audience and Djokovic, audience and Haas, audience and Fish, referee and Fish.

The emotional upheaval in the Djokovic clan would be a very sad event indeed.

[invisiblecoolers]

Djokovic played a monster game against Tipsy, poor Tipsy played superb yet lost 6-1 in the 2nd set, it was mighty close and some real bad luck on several rallies casted a doom.

But onething for sure Tipsy made Djoko playe the level of 2011.

[laverfan]

Watched the match iC. The net chords were very frustrating for Tipsy.

One very noticeable aspect of the match was the serious demeanor of Djokovic. Not even a smile broke throughout the match. Hope he recovers from whatever ails him, quickly.

[HM Murdock]

A lot of this speculation seems to stem from a lot of people feeling Djokovic has been very emotionally charged for a few months now with unexpected outbursts during matches and apparently he reacted to someone in the audience last night shouting something to him. Again probably all rubbish, can't say I've noticed that much but then I don't follow him to any great degree beyond watching some of his matches.

He has definitely been very tightly-wound the last few months. I've felt for a while that something is not quite right with him because his demeanour on court has been different.

Jelena Gencic said recently that she thinks he has personal issues (although exactly how she would know this is unclear):
http://english.blic.rs/Sports/8926/Novak-has-to-resolve-personal-issues

It seems to me that everything came to a head with his grandfather's passing in April, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were a larger family issue affecting Novak.

I feel sorry for him if so. It must be hard to be travelling all round the world, facing the pressure of competition under those circumstances.

[socal1976]

Yes there have been whispers and Novak looks a little tense and almost distracted in many of his matches. I don't know for sure and I don't think anyone knows as no annoucement has been made but as we have seen in the past if these things are true they can really effect your performance on the court. Nadal went through a similar thing.

[The Special Juan]

Djokovic v Murray at the Olympics: One thing that did surprise me was that Djokovic was suffering from "Murrayitis" where he was shouting a lot at no one in particular. He might be mentally drained at the moment and needs a week off.

[socal1976]

There is a lot of pressure in being the man on tour Juan, and it could be a case of Novak having to learn how to deal with the pressure of being the hunted and the top dog. He has more commitments, more responsibilities, and more expectation. These are things that may take him an adjustment period especially if as some have alleged he is dealing with personal family issues.

[Guest]

What possessed me to think Berdy would reach the final

[carrieg4]

What possessed me to think Berdy would reach the final

I just assumed you had been drinking

[Guest]

What possessed me to think Berdy would reach the final

I just assumed you had been drinking

well I hoped he would accustom himself well on the blue stuff.

Well Nole hasn't let me predictions down.

I could murder some wine

[luciusmann]

There is a lot of pressure in being the man on tour Juan, and it could be a case of Novak having to learn how to deal with the pressure of being the hunted and the top dog. He has more commitments, more responsibilities, and more expectation. These are things that may take him an adjustment period especially if as some have alleged he is dealing with personal family issues.

After an absence from the forum (was on holiday in Barcelona), I'm back!

I would say there is certainly more expectation of Djokovic now than there was in past years, but no more than it was @ the USO last year and the Aussie Open this year. Novak isn't the hunted anymore either, he's No.2 and that should take some pressure off (he's no longer the hunted).

Let's be realistic here, Djokovic has been very fortunate in the current tournament, Nadal pulled out and then Federer and then Murray! He's facing none of the other big 3 which makes his chances of retaining the Rogers Cup much higher. He's lucky, because he desperately needed those 1, 000 points to keep within touching distance of Federer for the No.1 spot. Now Djokovic has an outside chance of taking the No.1 spot but only if he wins Cinci and Fed doesn't make the final. It's still most likely that the earliest Djokovic can get the No.1 spot back in early/mid October. With Fed's current good form, I'd expect a potential Federer Vs Djokovic final @ Cinci, but beating Fed won't give him the No.1 spot but losing would give Fed around a 500 point lead which then means Fed needs to go to Shanghai if he wants to retain the No.1 spot (unless he's won the USO) but that would be in early October (a while away).

I think for now Djokovic can forget about the No.1 spot and just focus on winning the big one left this season, the USO. If Nadal is slightly below par or withdraws from the USO, I think it's Fed's best opportunity to add #18. Fed has been only match points away from being in the final of the USO for the last 2 years (thus beating Djokovic) but if they meet again, it will be the final this time and I don't think Federer will falter like the last 2 years. Djokovic does have slightly more on the line @ the USO than Fed, he's got the title to defend and on top of that, if he doesn't retain it, he can forget clinching the No.1 spot this year (it's less on the line than Wimbledon though). Fed has nothing on the line by comparison, reaching the semis like last year will mean he will still retain the No.1 spot (if he's still got it @ the USO) and even though he hasn't won the USO since 2008, he has won a slam this year, which takes the pressure off him.

Overall for Fed, winning Wimbledon and gaining silver @ the Olympics isn't shabby @ all. Being a Brit, I wasn't too bothered and kind of pleased Murray beat Fed @ the Olympics but unlike grand slams, the No.2 and No.3 don't go away with little, they still gain a medal, okay, the colour wasn't gold, but I'm sure if you asked Murray if he'd rather have won Wimbledon and won the silver rather than being runner up and winning the gold, we can be pretty sure which one he'd choose!

[Guest]

I don't think Djokovic has had an easy passage through the tournament. Haas make him work for that victory. Djokovic for me has had his 'peaking' spot on at tournaments. It has taken some very strong performances to defeat him. Take Wimbledon, the Federer masterclass in returning and Murray managed to hit his way through Djokovic which usually never happens. At the FO a more aggressive Djokovic would've won it.

Djokovic has had a tough year off the court. With his Grandfather's passing, it is so difficult for anyone to deal with the loss of a family member. In a sense like Sampras in 1995. I remember Tom Gullikson saying that Pete had a good life up until then and that he didn't really have such an event like his coach passing away happening and that emotionally it hampered him on court. He won 2 Slams that year. Djokovic can do the same.

As socal correctly stated, being the no.1 guy takes it's toll.

[luciusmann]

Being No.1 after just 1 year? Maybe if you're not one of the greats perhaps......Fed sure managed it well as did Sampras, so this talk of the 'toll' it's taking seems a bit fanciful.

I can't say I watched much of the current tournament as I been on holiday but the fact Djokovic hasn't had it easy is more a reflection Djokovic's dropping of form rather than anything else. Remember this is a tournament he won last year without dropping a set until the final. He won 11 str8 sets before dropping his first to Fish in the final (which he eventually won).

[laverfan]

I hope Gasquet and Djokovic recover from their exertions to give us a good match.

[The Special Juan]

It's a Gasquet v Djokovic final then? Interesting. If Djokovic is tired then Gasquet can beat him (Gasquet can beat anyone on his day) and if Gasquet does win then I wouldn't want him in my quarter at the USO if I was a top 4 player.

[Guest]

Being No.1 after just 1 year? Maybe if you're not one of the greats perhaps......Fed sure managed it well as did Sampras, so this talk of the 'toll' it's taking seems a bit fanciful.

I can't say I watched much of the current tournament as I been on holiday but the fact Djokovic hasn't had it easy is more a reflection Djokovic's dropping of form rather than anything else. Remember this is a tournament he won last year without dropping a set until the final. He won 11 str8 sets before dropping his first to Fish in the final (which he eventually won).

You have to take into account that Djokovic was the 3rd ranked best player in the world for years on end. He won the AO in 2008 and he stop and stuttered after that and you have to say that in the 3 years that prevailed when there was work on the serve and change of racquet. He underwent a lot of surgery career wise and for me it takes a lot to have accomplished what he did from 2008 onwards.

Look at Nadal and the struggle he had when becoming the number 1 player in the world. You could say he has suffered second season syndrome, but I do expect big things to come from Djokovic. He has the game to dominate again.

[The Special Juan]

What time is the final tonight?

[laverfan]

What time is the final tonight?

Night match. 7pm local. 9+ hours from now.

[Guest]

8pm me thinks

They met in Miami this year and Djokovic put him to the sword.

Hard to look past a Djokovic straight sets win.

[The Special Juan]

Thanks. I think I'll stay up for it.

[Guest]

There was a nice picture taken by Tipsy and added onto the ATP tour on FB. Had Djokovic in it and their teams. Chilling and having a laugh it seemed. Good to see these guys can relax with each other.

[laverfan]

Djokovic makes it look easy and wins 6-3, 6-2. Gasquet provides very little resistance.

[socal1976]

Wonderful match by Novak despite Lucius' overral pessimistic belief in Novak's chances at the number 1 and the weakness of the match it was a great performance by djoko. First off Lucius why is it that you believe Fed is such a shoe in for the year end #1. Djokovic with his win in Toronto leads fed in the points race, therefore from here on out whoever wins the most points between the two is most likely the year end #1 unless someone else like murray or Nadal go wild winning everything. Novak has a final in a slam, a grandslam title and two masters already in the season and two more big outdoor tournaments left, also you always underestimate his ability indoors.


Richard was always going to be hard pressed Djokovic is a terrible matchup for him. Richard's bigger spin shots jump up perfectly for Novak's western forehand and his two hander, Richie G has a weak second Novak is among the best ever at punishing the second serve. And to top it off Novak is faster and has the better forehand, just a very bad matchup for Gasquet. He doesn't have much to hurt Novak with unless he serves insane and he couldn't win the big points tonight. Good performance from Novak he got better in his last two matchs and was really lights out then. He should beat both Tipsy and Gasquet but they aren't push overs both are top 15 guys.

More importantly I am just happy about the mettle he showed boucing back from a tough month on the grass in England. Gasquet has no shot against him and both guys knew that as Richard's weakness on second serve and the high balls he hits just the formula for getting Novak in the groove.

[Guest]

I think Gasquet behind Federer is the only player with the SHBH that can handle the higher balls. I just wish he had more mentally as I think he is more than capable of being a top 10 player.

Congrats to Djokovic. He is looking near his best again. Shows why he is a true champion being able to bounce back from a cruel month in London in losing in the SF at Wimbledon and the Olympics. The serve for me is looking much better. I do wonder if he is going to turn the heat up this week in Cincinatti.

[Josiah Maiestas]

Glasskay was wonderfully soft as a kitten expectedly. For a player with more than a hellistic backhand this was easy dinner. Like scissors against paper. Isner must be feeling stupid losing to such a dimwit.

[banbrotam]

Glasskay was wonderfully soft as a kitten expectedly. For a player with more than a hellistic backhand this was easy dinner. Like scissors against paper. Isner must be feeling stupid losing to such a dimwit.

The fact that the gifted Gasquet with a backhand only slightly less elegant than the GOAT's is (or was) ranked way behind Isner shows how beautifully complex life can be

[The Special Juan]

Good win for Djokovic; Gasquet was out-hit, out-maneuvered and, quite simply, out-played. However, if I was a Djokovic fan, I'd be ever so slightly worried about his tendency to chuck in one bad service game per set. Aside from that he looked good but you've got to wonder how much he'll have left if he has a run an Cinci.

[HM Murdock]

However, if I was a Djokovic fan, I'd be ever so slightly worried about his tendency to chuck in one bad service game per set.

I'm more than slightly worried and I have been for months! This for me is the biggest difference to 2011. Last year he frequently managed to grab narrow wins against opponents playing well. This year, these odd bad services games are costing him matches against the same opponents.

The Olympics was a good example. First five service games of each set were good (very good at times) and then he chucked in a stinker on the sixth and gets beaten 7-5, 7-5.

It's a confidence thing. His forehand has been a little inconsistent this year. When he gets nervous, he doesn't appear to have the confidence to fully attack on the shot after the serve, which means he loses the initiative in the rally and often loses the point (this was particularly bad v Fed at Wimbledon).

I'm pleased to hear in his interviews that this is something he has been focusing on in training recently, so hoepfully normal service (no pun intended!) will be resumed soon.

[The Special Juan]

The Olympics was one of the examples I was thinking of. At Wimbledon v Mayer is another example where Mayer had break or set points and missed a very simple shot. Even last night Gasquet had break points in 2 service games, espeically the first game of the watch where Djokovic netted 2/3 reasonably easy shots.

[banbrotam]

However, if I was a Djokovic fan, I'd be ever so slightly worried about his tendency to chuck in one bad service game per set.

I'm more than slightly worried and I have been for months! This for me is the biggest difference to 2011. Last year he frequently managed to grab narrow wins against opponents playing well. This year, these odd bad services games are costing him matches against the same opponents.

The Olympics was a good example. First five service games of each set were good (very good at times) and then he chucked in a stinker on the sixth and gets beaten 7-5, 7-5.

It's a confidence thing. His forehand has been a little inconsistent this year. When he gets nervous, he doesn't appear to have the confidence to fully attack on the shot after the serve, which means he loses the initiative in the rally and often loses the point (this was particularly bad v Fed at Wimbledon).

I'm pleased to hear in his interviews that this is something he has been focusing on in training recently, so hoepfully normal service (no pun intended!) will be resumed soon.

I honestly don't think we learn anything from events where three of the Top 4 don't attend or get injured - such is the gap to the rest. In others words Nole routing Gasguet is no great shakes

But he is my favourite for the US Open

[socal1976]

Agree with Murdoch or Juan, in fact Juan I talked about the same thing just a couple of weeks ago. It isn't so much the service game as he usually has one or two games a match this year where he makes a quick succession of forehand errors often off of neutral balls or when he is even ahead in the point and bossing it he will start making 2 or 3 easy forehand errors in one service game and basically give the guy a service game every match in that manner. It isn't so much the serve as the serve does its job and gets him a week response that you would expect him to crush and he hits it in the net or hits it out. The serve does its job, he gets the hittable forehand and blows a couple in a row. He is not an overwhelming server, his serve is used to set up the big groundies and when the forehand goes off for a couple of games it can make his serve look bad, but the serve percentages are strong it is the neutral and short ball on the forehand that he has not been doing enough with and has had streaky issues with it. When he plays cleanly on the forehand side behind the serve he never has problems holding.

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