Fruitless Pre Season Structure for Munster

First topic message reminder :

I do not believe that I am alone amongst Munster fans in wondering what the flip they are playing at with their preseason setup.

Firstly we took on La Rochelle. We brought a panel of 32 players and had a special agreement with La Rochelle that all of them could get game time over the 80 minutes with the game played in quarters.

Munster stuck to their word and played the entire panel making 17 subs over the match which completely killed any chance to prepare for a real match situation.

We now take on London Irish in what will be a good fixture but we play a second tier team in Bristol. What will that achieve (all respect to Bristol) but we need to be testing ourselves against our peers.

A good preseason (not necessarily wins but playing tough opposition and challenging yourself) sets the tone for the year ahead. I was a big fan when Munster used to travel to the states and take on the USA in a Test Series but that was before the economic downturn.

Even still I think that a recession is no excuse and neither is having a new coaching team.

Aside from exposing as many players as possible to "French rugby" the La Rochelle encounter told us nothing. I am not even that annoyed at the result.

But more at what seems to be a poor preparation for the daunting season ahead.

The problem was that Munster lost all of its ball carriers (Foley, Flannery, Quinlan, Leamy, Wally) over the last few years and POC was left to do all the carrying. A pity Nick Williams didn't work out at the time. Munster should also have held onto that Saffer* (nickname sunbeds) who is now with Saracens.


edit: Justin Melck

Perhaps that’s the case for Munster Sin, but Ireland don’t lack ball carriers.

Hopefully we will see some more lads pop up Sin.

I know Mike Sherry is a good ball carrier. James Downey will give us a ball carrier in the backline and by all accounts ball carrying is CJ Standers main attribute. If they (as well as Ryan and O'Mahony) stepped up in ball carrying it would make O'Connell much much more effective.

The first choice backrow is one that confuses me a fair bit especially as O'Mahony and Stander are both very versatile. I expect to see O'Mahony, Stander and Coughlan but we have a serious amount of 7s who would bring more balance - Niall Ronan, Tommy O'Donnell, Sean Dougall, Barry O'Mahony.

Mickado wrote:Perhaps that’s the case for Munster Sin, but Ireland don’t lack ball carriers.

But the backrow had to do a lot more defensively. If you look at the stats for the international games that POC was missing for, none of them did any better.

NZ v Ireland (2nd Test) 22-19 (best game)
Healy 7/15
Tuohy 3/1 (3 carries, 1 Metre Run)
Ryan 8/4
McLaughlin 4/3
O'Brien 8/15
Heaslip 6/11

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France v Ireland (6Ns) 17-17
Healy 7/3
DOC 3/0
POC 6/3
Ferris 5/7
Heaslip 8/14

Not huge amount of difference really when he is there and when he isn't.

In terms of Munster there is definitely a problem. Ryan isn't built for ball carrying into heavy traffic but is deceptively good, POM is ok but is better in the wide channels and using his footballing skills. Downey will help though.

Even in terms of Ireland I think there are issues. Take SOB, Ferris, Healy, POC out and there is a lack of effective carriers there and none at all in the backs. It makes us predictable and easy to shut down.

David Wallace and D'arcy used to be the real go to men but alas Wally is gone and D'arcy isn't the player he was.

I think it comes down to the "your best XV is not just your best 15 players" Rodders.

I think Munster could definitely benefit from a Leo Auva type No 8.

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:Perhaps that’s the case for Munster Sin, but Ireland don’t lack ball carriers.

But the backrow had to do a lot more defensively. If you look at the stats for the international games that POC was missing for, none of them did any better.

NZ v Ireland (2nd Test) 22-19 (best game)
Healy 7/15
Tuohy 3/1 (3 carries, 1 Metre Run)
Ryan 8/4
McLaughlin 4/3
O'Brien 8/15
Heaslip 6/11

---

France v Ireland (6Ns) 17-17
Healy 7/3
DOC 3/0
POC 6/3
Ferris 5/7
Heaslip 8/14

Not huge amount of difference really when he is there and when he isn't.

Spoiler:

For an average of just over 11 possessions per game, POC passes the ball less than twice on average. Which is not what a player who's treble marked should do really, that's all i'm saying.

Considering Heaslip is the No. 8, I'd expect him to be doing a fair bit of carrying and passing off the back of the scrum.