Facing which team gets your nerves the jumpiest?

First topic message reminder :

Well the start of the 4N is almost upon us and the nerves and anticipation have already set in. It got me thinking though: which team gives me the biggest case of the heebie jeebies when the ABs face them?

I guess this changes over the years and depends greatly on the form of the team. In the 90s, facing Australia was a tall order and one we often found unable to surmount. Traditionally the Boks have been the greatest foe and they still command for me the greatest respect, which in turn you might say conjures up the biggest fear. France in a World Cup knockout match fills me with a deep sense of dread. England are a team I must confess I'm always glad to see beaten but I suspect I am not alone in this feeling. The fear of losing is different to the prospect of losing to SA. It is more the fear of losing to a team that is all too willing to remind you of having lost to them, (and fair enough!). Then there are the teams that have never beaten the ABs but there is the tangible fear like this series against Ireland that records are made to be broken.

So if you were to create a world ranking of fear for me as an AB supporter, I think it'd go something like this.

1. South Africa
2. France (capable of jumping to 1 in a RWC knockout match
3. Australia
4. Wales
5. England
6. Argentina
7. Ireland
8. Scotland
9. Manu Samoa
10. Japan (one day they built tiny transistors and changed the world. I think they can go to the other extreme and create Godzilla rugby players and change the rugby world).

Honourable mentions Georgia and Romania. They strike fear in me because players one to fifteen look like something spawned from a giant cloning machine.

Who strikes fear into you the most at the moment?

In answer to your questions: No. Yes. I do.

I can't think of another country where one part of it gets so much stick and seems to attract all the negative aspects of the country.

Why are bad guys in Hollywood invariably with an English accent? Why should there be a Scottish presence in English programming but the Scots are up in arms when there is an English accent on their own programming? Why should the Scots and Welsh be free to fly their flags with wild abandon and regional pride but people criticise the waving of the St George flag because it's seen as nationalist and racist? I can't account for these injustices and I do sympathise with encountering that mentality.

Chjw131 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Artfull- have you not read this thread- It has been a topic, I dont think he was targetting that with you..

It was a very general response in accordance with the discussion. Unfortunately it didn't entirely revolve around you. My apologies.

You quoted my post in your reply so obviously I assumed it was directed at me, if it was a general response then you shouldn't have quoted my post.

Kia most of us actually realise that the best of hollywood is from british talent anyway. If your still watching them 80's die hard movies then maybe its time you got into the present..

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Artfull- have you not read this thread- It has been a topic, I dont think he was targetting that with you..

It was a very general response in accordance with the discussion. Unfortunately it didn't entirely revolve around you. My apologies.

You quoted my post in your reply so obviously I assumed it was directed at me, if it was a general response then you shouldn't have quoted my post.

And here I go again quoting your post. It seems you need to go back and re-read my response as the first part is a retort to your comments, the second element - as de-lineated by the separate paragraphs and context, address the more general postings of others.

I'm not going to put separate posts in for those that can't be bothered to read through a response correctly.

The villain in Die Hard was Jeremy Irons but his accent was German.

And Alan Rickman of course in the original.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:The villain in Die Hard was Jeremy Irons but his accent was German.

Alan Ricman as the villain in the first Die Hard was also fantastic, he was legendary in Robin Hood Prince of Thieves as well, probably my favourite British actor along with Gary Oldman.

Ahhh you beat me to it kia.

Yeah great actors. No question.

I was thinking more along the lines of Star Wars. Asian and English accents seemed to be the bad guys. I guess Obe1 was allowed to have a BBC accent because he dies!

I only just found out Dominic West from the Wire was an old Eaton boy. Incredible how he pulls off that accent. Much like Hugh Laurie, it's much harder to pull off an ´ordinary´ accent. Much easier to go for a slack jawed yokel accent or a stoned Californian surfer.

The guy that played Stringer Bell in the wire is also English and holds an american accent brilliantly.

Far out. He does indeed!

Usually the Americans coming over to the period drama roles or dalliances in UK films adopt the plum in the throat accent. Occasionally someone will gash out a Scottish accent. Daniel Day Lewis is a great actor and did an alright job in my mind as an Irishman but then again I'm not the best to judge him. Whenever somebody does a Kiwi accent it always sounds Australian. Of course they're very similar but we tend to accentuate the differences. The best Kiwi accent for me was Anthony Hopkins adopting a Southland accent in The World's Fastest Indian.

Daniel Day Lewis has lived in Ireland for a long time so you can see why he's good with Irish accents, to the point were he can differentiate between Southern (say Dublin) accent and Northern (Belfast) accent brilliantly. In some films were he's not doing an Irish accent I still think he sounds like he's from Belfast, in Underworld for example.

France everytime for me.

Then:

1.NZ
2.AUS
3.SA
4.Scotland
5.Ireland
6.Italy
7.Samoa
8.Tonga
9.Fiji
10.Romania

the gag is always in what's not said, Hersh.

DDL can do what ever he puts his mind to- but has almost got a naturilsed Irish accent these days anyway. He is very much english/irish. Best actor in the world IMO

The American accent is quite easy though. And if an actor can't pull it off convincingly he's not going to go very far in American TV or movies.

Americans doing the Irish accent! Nearly always a disaster. There's a particular kind of fake leprechaun accent that only exists in Hollywood movie's, and not in Ireland itself. See Julia Roberts in "Michael Collins", or Kevin Spacey in "Ordinary Decent Criminal" for some terrible examples. There's a few exceptions. John Voight in "The General" does the perfect culshie accent. And I though Brad Pitt did a pretty good (but exaggerated) Irish traveller in "Snatch".

I always thought the hardest accent to pull off is the South African one.

Dicaprio did a decent job in blood diamond

Tom Cruise's 'Irish' in Far and Away is one of the worst.

Yeah I though DiCaprio did a good one in Blood Diamond. We'd have to ask Biltong to be sure if it was really authentic to his ear. I didn't think Morgan Freeman's Mandela impression was very good though in Invictus.

Daniel Day Lewis has actually never played a British character in a movie funnily enough. Only Irish and yanks. I remember in the 90's there was rumours that he could play James Bond. But I'm sure that in preparation for the role, he'd probably actually join mi5 and take down a terrorist group, killing hundreds. Method actors.

Christian Bale's American Accent is fantastic. He doesn't drop it in interviews etc as well until he changes project

The American accent? Which one? There are loads. I'd be very surprised if anyone even from England could pull off a convinving Geordie, Scouse, Manc, Yorkishire, West Country et al accent. The same applies to America. Australia and NZ show their age with very few regional variations. It's more a thick accent or an easy one.

DiCaprio wasn't too bad but whenever he said bro I thought he sounded like a Maori!

Feckless Rogue wrote:Yeah I though DiCaprio did a good one in Blood Diamond. We'd have to ask Biltong to be sure if it was really authentic to his ear. I didn't think Morgan Freeman's Mandela impression was very good though in Invictus.

Daniel Day Lewis has actually never played a British character in a movie funnily enough. Only Irish and yanks. I remember in the 90's there was rumours that he could play James Bond. But I'm sure that in preparation for the role, he'd probably actually join mi5 and take down a terrorist group, killing hundreds. Method actors.

he has in a room with a view and i think in my beautifull laundrette ,However he is quoted as saying he never will play an Englishman again. He lives to live as someone else i think..

Feckless Rogue wrote:Yeah I though DiCaprio did a good one in Blood Diamond. We'd have to ask Biltong to be sure if it was really authentic to his ear.

It depends very much where you grew up and your friends as you grew up, I usually cringe when Americans try to emulate our accent.

They make us all sound like we grew up behind the dumpster.

Many of us have a very normal accent and you won't know where we come from or whther english is our home language.

Don't worry cultural cringe can extend to its own people. Justin Marshall, Martin Henderson and Temuera Morrison in Star Wars can set some Kiwis off. We want to be seen for some on the international stage but not heard!

Great OP Kia some interesting comments coming out. Dead chuffed that you put Wales ahead of England, as do quite a few others. Really, HERSH Wales are completely off your radar? Hey Biltong gave you a scare last time didnt we? A game we lost rather than you won? Anyway I'm with Mowgli on this one, dead right mate. Australia are our bete noire and next time as we are playing outside the international window on Dec 1st its going to be decidedly hairy and not of the A.Jones variety. The ABs are just an adventure imo atm so pretty relaxed there. the rest we can beat anytime

Ah Don, Hougaard won that all on his own.

I thought it was the touch judge who judged the kick didn't make it.

Dontheman wrote:Dead chuffed that you put Wales ahead of England

The Stereophonics need to update their song to "As Long as We're Ahead of England on People's Radar Then We Don't Care'

No terribly catchy but hey.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I thought it was the touch judge who judged the kick didn't make it.

Nah, it was the two tries to one count.

Ah, that'll be it.

Seriously though, I've never understood that was a game we lost rather than you won. I know it's tempting to say when you feel frustrated that you could have so easily won the match. It's a bit like saying for the Wales Ireland match, the ref won the match for you. Our minds tend to drift towards the dying moments of the match but really what happened over the entire game is what matters.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:The American accent? Which one? There are loads. I'd be very surprised if anyone even from England could pull off a convinving Geordie, Scouse, Manc, Yorkishire, West Country et al accent. The same applies to America. Australia and NZ show their age with very few regional variations. It's more a thick accent or an easy one.

DiCaprio wasn't too bad but whenever he said bro I thought he sounded like a Maori!

Well Bale's ones that I've heard are Boston and GA, which is what we mean when we say American usually

I can do a decent North Yorkshire or West Country accent on top of my SE accent

I'm rubbish at accents. Doesn't stop me from doing them though. It's all good fun. I used to crack up over an Aussie friend's imitation of a Maori accent. Cross between South African and a hobo.

I've always thought though it must be hard being a Brummy doctor. Imagine this scene. Alright now. I'm sorry I've got some bad news. I'm afraid it's cancer.

How are you supposed to take that seriously?

Biltong wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:Yeah I though DiCaprio did a good one in Blood Diamond. We'd have to ask Biltong to be sure if it was really authentic to his ear.

It depends very much where you grew up and your friends as you grew up, I usually cringe when Americans try to emulate our accent.

They make us all sound like we grew up behind the dumpster.

Many of us have a very normal accent and you won't know where we come from or whther english is our home language.

His accent was okay (strictly speaking, wasn't he supposed to be an ex-Rhodesian?) but his mannerisms were all wrong...The university I went to had an exchange programme with UCLA, and we (the native Saffa's) used to play 'spot the American by the way they walk'. We were usually right!

Further to an earlier conversation: if you think the English accent gets bad-press in Hollywood, what about the South African accent. Think of Die-hard, Hard Target, Diamonds are forever, the Saffa's are always bad guys....(that's why refs always pick on Bakkies - because of his accent ) And to cap it all off: what other nation has a song written about them being so horrible ("I've never met a nice South African")...

The English accent doesnt really get as much bad coverage any more- mainly due to many of the directors being brits anyway..

The SA,german,english accent was part of a bygone age of filmmaking anyway. its all russian and chinese these days.

The best example of this old school approach is in the comedy community and that tw!t of a teacher from england

Any first up 3Ns match especially away,and the Boks away.Home matches unless they get complacent ALL BLACKS usually.None of the NH sides outside a RWC and even then not a lot.

Emack who would you support in a RWC final between england and NZ

Are you trying to bate me?i have already stated on numerous occassions All Blacks first,England second, Scotland Third.My support is irelevant but to satsfy you The AllBlacks.IF it was England versus any one else England,sometimes when it`s England v Scotland.When every one is writing them off Scotland who I choose to support is my business no one elses.Like my opinion it is as valid as any`s here you`re not CYRIL are you?if so i claim my £5.

hey dont get so defensive- I was honestly just asking the question.. I didnt know..I find it very sad that people feel this way but there you go. Its more about supporting our system and our population and wanting the nation we live in to suceed rather than over bearing patriotism.. I dont think there is anything wrong with supporting other teams and enjoying how they play , but not to the detrement of our own..

Basically Your view is very valid, offcourse it is, And it isnt my place to tell you anyway. But i was thinking about how you might feel in an NZ v england- or a england v scotland, or a scotland v NZ match. Surely you might feel abit nervy all round. On the other hand I am not sure how nervy someone can feel when they are supporting an adopted team. Please dont take offence by any off this- You are in all probability a bigger rugby fan than myself!

No offence taken,I love my native countries too,I hate it when people take a result for granted before a ball is kicked.Also the attitude a team can only play one way etc.When Scotland played a structured game relying on patterson to kick the goals.Everyone writing them off especially versus England,then joy in bad weather they came out running.Thom Evans injury denied them that day it was only a draw sad he has had to give the game away.To be honest away i feel nervy about the AllBlacks playing anyone away but apart from France not that much.At home the AB`s are near invincible less than 40 losses since 1903 unbeleiveable.England versus NH teams mostly expect them to win but Wales are only 1or 2 games behind them.France are usully the most difficult team as they are so unpredictable.They can put 50 on you one match then lose by 50 the next.[exaggeration I know but you see what I mean].Ireland are great spoilers teams coming up to a Grand Slam or a Championship then wham they trip over Ireland.These days Scotland are always the underdog,but every dog has it`s day.Just love it when Scotland sock it to em.In my long life have learnt treat every team with respect or it will come back and bite you.

NZ
SA
France
Argentina
England
Samoa
Scotland
Ireland
Wales

The good people at 606v2 put this same question to Beale after the game against NZ.

His response was:

1. NZ
2. NZ
3. NZ
4. NZ
5. NZ
6. NZ
7. Ireland
8. Samoa
9. Scotland
10. Oh by the way, did I mention NZ

1. Wales (gotta beat them)
2. Australia (just to prevent the flak)
3= SA
3= France
5= Ireland
5= Scotland
7= Argentina
7= Italy
9 P I nations, Japan, Romania etc.
n New Zealand (why worry?)

mystiroakey wrote:"English Rugby fans seem to suffer from Schadenfreude as I've been given grief from English fans when the AB's lose even though their team has either already been knocked out of a World Cup or is going through a terrible patch of form themselves."

what a load of rubbish. Us english are the ones that get that from everyone else. Even the OP has shown himself to enjoy england losing!!!,

"England are a team I must confess I'm always glad to see beaten but I suspect I am not alone in this feeling"

I am speechless by your comment if i am gonna be honest.. Is there some witch hunt in NZ at the moment,

Myst,

I don't get any real pleasure from seeing England beaten by anyone else. I lived in England from 1999 to 2004 and then again from 2005 to 2007 and in the Caribbean from 2007 to 2011 (full of English rugby supporters), my experience was that even if England weren't playing us the English rugby fans I came across took great pleasure out of seeing the AB's beaten by anyone and immense pleasure in seeing the AB's beaten by the French (1999 and 2007 RWC's in particular) - this may simply have been a recognition of how good the AB's are that they were rooting for the "underdog" and in 2007 that they didn't want to face the AB's in a semi, however my general impression (and it is simply that) is that the English rugby supporters loved seeing the AB's beaten and were quite happy to tell you in no uncertain terms.

And before you think I'm an English basher, I loved the time I spent in England, have many English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish firends, support the England football team and have immense respect for the England Cricket team (especially having the balls to dump that dipsh!t Pietersen).

Biltong wrote: Otagolad, in the last 8 years Sa has turned their record around by winning 8 out of 20 matches against the All Blacks, all the other nations put together only managed 7 wins in the same period.

If you guys (it seems there are a good number of NZ supporters that think this way) consider us as a non threat then it seems you are still hanging on to the period 1992-2004. That was the period the All Blacks were dominant against SA, in recent times that is simply not the case.

As for the pre solation era, well it is before my time and whether referees were biased only our way is highly questionable and debatable.

At the end of the day I respect the All BLacks as they have been the best team in the professional era and alongside us the best teams in the amateur era. Any suggestion of referees this or that in the past is something that is hard to prove or disprove and frankly sullies the record of these two teams, we should rise above these cliches, accusations and excuses.

NZ are best, accept that, and hope we dont get all our ducks in a row (unless of course you welcome the competition).

Biltong,

I don't at all think the Boks are a non-threat, in fact I always believe they are our biggest threat. What I was alluding to was that in NZ the threat of the Boks beating the AB's isn't as big as some might think and in SA it isn't as bad as some might think and I provided the stats to back that up. The the reasons I don't get that nervous when the AB's play the Boks are:

1. As our biggest threat we expect to lose games to SA. This is nothing to be ashamed of, whereas to lose to Argentina, Scotland or Ireland would be a tad embarrassing (sorry but its true).

2. Generally we know how the Boks are going to play - big forwards, 10 man rugby etc. - and that doesn't make me as nervous as the Aussies or the French where before the game thoughts of "what might happen tonight" or "hell they could run us off the park" start percolating in the old grey matter.

As regards referees - prior to neutral refs every country reffed in favour of their own teams on the 50/50 calls, however the impression in NZ (and from speaking to people from other countries, overseas as well) was that you were always playing against 16 men in SA. Amongst the old timers in NZ, and for those of us who have had a chance to watch a lot of the old games more recently, it did seem like a mission impossible to win a series in SA - no coincidence in my mind that it took neutral refs before the AB's won its first series in SA. Anyway, this debate is historical and incredibly subjective but it is how many Kiwis, myself included, see it.

So to sum up, I totally respect the Boks as the hardest team for the AB's to beat, especially away, however that doesn't mean I get especially nervous before those games and in fact worry more about the Aussies, although maybe on reflection after Sat night I shouldn't

Playing the Boks anywhere i`m most nervous about and respect the most i am not going into the politics side of it.I will just deal in facts with the exception of the period 1937-49 when the All Blacks had no Scrum after the 2-3-2 was outlawed.When both England and Wales out scrumed them in 1935,in the Amateur era to 1995.The Boks had a overall win record over every side in world rugby.In 1996 that changed the AllBlacks overtook them,that from 1956- onwards the tour results went in every case with the home team.It is probable there was bias in the refrees decisions in both countries.In the Professional ERA the AllBlacks win rate has increased by 12% against the Boks.The 6 series match 3 Ns was won by the team with the most home matches,exception being 2006 when the allBlacks won against the draw.2007 and 2011 stats are marred by the disgraceful ptactice of throwing in stiffs in an endeavour to win a RWC.It worked in both cases but does`nt make it right one tournament at a time.Boks at home always bet Bok and be thankful if you`re wrong.

Otagolad wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"English Rugby fans seem to suffer from Schadenfreude as I've been given grief from English fans when the AB's lose even though their team has either already been knocked out of a World Cup or is going through a terrible patch of form themselves."

what a load of rubbish. Us english are the ones that get that from everyone else. Even the OP has shown himself to enjoy england losing!!!,

"England are a team I must confess I'm always glad to see beaten but I suspect I am not alone in this feeling"

I am speechless by your comment if i am gonna be honest.. Is there some witch hunt in NZ at the moment,

Myst,

I don't get any real pleasure from seeing England beaten by anyone else. I lived in England from 1999 to 2004 and then again from 2005 to 2007 and in the Caribbean from 2007 to 2011 (full of English rugby supporters), my experience was that even if England weren't playing us the English rugby fans I came across took great pleasure out of seeing the AB's beaten by anyone and immense pleasure in seeing the AB's beaten by the French (1999 and 2007 RWC's in particular) - this may simply have been a recognition of how good the AB's are that they were rooting for the "underdog" and in 2007 that they didn't want to face the AB's in a semi, however my general impression (and it is simply that) is that the English rugby supporters loved seeing the AB's beaten and were quite happy to tell you in no uncertain terms.

And before you think I'm an English basher, I loved the time I spent in England, have many English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish firends, support the England football team and have immense respect for the England Cricket team (especially having the balls to dump that dipsh!t Pietersen).

This surprises me. On the face of it, all other circumstances being ignored, English rugby fans in the Caribbean wanting France to win seems slightly odd

[quote="Otagolad
So to sum up, I totally respect the Boks as the hardest team for the AB's to beat, especially away, however that doesn't mean I get especially nervous before those games and in fact worry more about the Aussies, although maybe on reflection after Sat night I shouldn't
[/quote]

Thats kind of how I feel and for me its not so much the ranking or number of wins a team might have had against us, its the level of unpredictability and of the top 3 SA are the most predictable. The question is more about prematch nerves rather than respect as such. In terms of respect the Boks sit at the top of the tree by a mile for the AB's. Thats never really changed.

With SA its not a matter of what theyll do, its how hard theyll do it. We know we just have to front up physically to have a chance but think that our all round strengths will generally carry the day. And just as importantly, if we dont, we'll likely lose.

SA dont usually pile on a lot of points through highly skillful play though if we weaken they can score them now and then.

SA also dont usually come from behind very often either, Januaries chip and try an example of the sort of thing Oz (JOC in Hong Kong) or even we (Dagg in SA two years ago) might do at the death. But with Oz you never know what can happen right until the last minute. Thats what keeps the nerves up, the potential to rip something from nowhere.

We know we should be ok if SA have the ball on halfway with a minute to go and a try needed. We know they wont go 50 yards for a try.

Oz and JOC did it with 10 seconds to go.

Tman,

That is exactly my point, not a lack of respect, just not a lot of pre-match nerves, which was what the OP was about. Don't worry though, if we don't play well and we lose then I'll be disappointed/angry/upset but I don't get my knickers in too much of a twist if the AB's give it their all and lose to SA.

Yeah I thought the general momentum and intensity of SA's game was great, the argie defence was a lot more resolute than I expected. Despite any back runs usually ending up with JDV or other running smack into a wall they still moved it at pace and M Steyn had a bit of a hand with that.

Theyre going to have to win their matches defensively I think and thats going to take a huge toll on them, up front and when the cracks start to appear.

But Oz arent doing a whole lot better either, and we have our own issues. Can just sense this series being an awful lot of crash bang and not a lot else, just like last weekend.