RaboP12 (Round 6): Leinster (30) vs Munster (21) k/o - 18:30 Sat, 6 October 2012 (Lansdowne Road)

by thebandwagonsociety Mon 01 Oct 2012, 4:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

Leinster & Munster coming off away losses (Connacht & Ospreys respectively).
How much will Leinster rebound?
Is this the usual slow start, or a malaise within the squad?

Squad updates/Teams to follow

Leinster Squad Update: 1 Oct 14:30
Rob Kearney (back) and Gordon D’Arcy (rib) are major doubts for the province and they will continue to be assessed ahead of Friday’s lunchtime team announcement. South African second row Quinn Roux suffered a shoulder injury and he is expected to miss this weekend’s derby match.
Meanwhile, Shane Jennings is expected to shake off the ill effects of an ankle injury which he sustained on the hour mark in Connacht, though it is likely to curtail his on-field involvement in training this week. It is hoped that club captain Leo Cullen (arm) will also return to the panel either this week or next, while Isaac Boss (arm) is getting closer to a return to action.

The province are expected to be boosted by the return of the likes of Jamie Heaslip, Kevin McLaughlin, Brian O’Driscoll, Eoin Reddan, Jonathan Sexton and Richardt Strauss to the panel this week.

There are two significant imminent landmarks for the province with Cian Healy, who turns 25 on Sunday, in line to make his 100th provincial appearance, while Naas number eight Heaslip’s next appearance will be his 150th.

Munster Squad Update: 1 October
Good news from the Munster camp is that the injuries picked up in the game on Saturday at the Liberty Stadium are not causing great concern.

Conor Murray required stitches to a cut above his eye but shortly after he returned it was thought to be in his best interests to replace him with Peter Stringer.
Stringer finished the game but suffered a calf injury and his progress will be monitored though the expectation is that both will be fit for consideration. The same applies to Marcus Horan who sustained a facial cut playing for Shannon.

Paul O'Connell (back), Johne Murphy (knee) and Luke O'Dea (ankle) are all expected to take a full part in training this week while Ian Nagle (shoulder) did likewise last week but will be given a week or so before being made available for selection and Cathal Sheridan (hand) and Ivan Dineen (groin) are also looking at a return in the same timeframe.

Mickado wrote:LEINSTER:

15: Ian Madigan
14: Andrew Conway
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Fergus McFadden
11: Isa Nacewa
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Eoin Reddan

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Damian Browne
5: Devin Toner
6: Kevin McLaughlin
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Jack McGrath
18: Jamie Hagan
19: Tom Denton
20: Jordi Murphy
21: John Cooney
22: Noel Reid
23: Fionn Carr

red_stag wrote:01: Dave Kilcoyne
02: Mike Sherry
03: BJ Botha
04: Donncha O'Callaghan
05: Donnacha Ryan
06: Dave O'Callaghan
07: Sean Dougall
08: Peter O'Mahony
09: Conor Murray
10: Ronan O'Gara
11: Simon Zebo
12: Casey Laulala
13: Keith Earls
14: Doug Howlett
15: Denis Hurley

16: Damien Varley
17: Wian du Preez
18: Stephen Archer
19: Billy Holland
20: Paddy Butler
21: Duncan Williams
22: Ian Keatley
23: James Downey

Post match report (Indo)
Having saddled themselves with the unwanted tag of league leaders in tries conceded, Leinster for a while looked like they might make serious headway in the other direction at Lansdowne Road last night. In the end they managed one more than they conceded, 3-2, and were happy enough to win, never mind miss out on the bonus.

The bad news is that their list of injured has grown even longer. Four players had to leave early from what was an entertaining contest for the huge crowd of 46,280 who fetched up on a perfect night for rugby. Kevin McLaughlin, Isa Nacewa, Brian O'Driscoll and Andrew Conway all took knocks. Conway's exit was via a stretcher, with a stinger, while McLaughlin will need a scan on a hyper-extended elbow, Nacewa is in trouble with a haematoma, and O'Driscoll sprained his ankle.

It remains to be seen who is fit for the opening defence of their Heineken Cup title, against Exeter in the RDS on Saturday, but as far as last night was concerned they were stuck with a back three of replacement scrumhalf John Cooney, outhalf Ian Madigan (in fairness he was selected at fullback) and Fionn Carr, who surely would have started if he hadn't missed a bad tackle in the five-try defeat in Galway last weekend.

Smelling the weakness in their opponents, Munster -- who came through the game in much better shape physically -- chased the home team down like men possessed. On 53 minutes they looked like they would be beaten out the gate when an outstanding try from O'Driscoll, converted from the touchline by the excellent Jonny Sexton, put Leinster 30-14 ahead.

Going down the final straight, however, it was a mad scramble. Conor Murray spread a bit of panic in the home crowd when, from a couple of metres out, he took advantage of empty corridor to dot the ball down. Replacement Ian Keatley nailed the conversion with a great kick, and Munster were on the charge. A couple of minutes later they looked on the verge of making it a one-point game.

Keith Earls was held up inches short, and when the ball squirted up referee Leighton Hodges said it was forward and Leinster escaped. Earls made another great burst heading into overtime, but by then the chances of two scores were non-existent.

When the game wasn't stopped for injuries it moved along at a cracking pace, helped by the service of man of the match Eoin Reddan -- his contribution to O'Driscoll's try was first class -- and, in the subtext of showing form for Ireland, Richardt Strauss made a compelling case. He looked like the player who took Leinster by storm when he arrived here three years ago. He did well to finger-tip-score the opening try, after just four minutes, but way better again in keeping the ball alive for the second, for Madigan.

"Yeah I thought he was really good," Joe Schmidt said. "There was one pinball effort where he took a ball behind him and was hit by two guys -- [Casey] Laulala was one of them, who tends not to leave a lot behind when he hits -- and ricocheted away in the lead-up to scoring [Madigan's try]. I thought he was very good."

It remains to be seen if Declan Kidney thinks the same. The Ireland coach will have been pleased with the form of Earls, and Simon Zebo, but it was hard for Munster to get a secure platform given the damage Mike Ross was doing to their scrum. Dave Kilcoyne, his opposite number, is a willing and aggressive ball carrier, but as you would expect he spent more time learning than lecturing in the tight. The ref did him for two penalties in a row -- one hit and one miss for Sexton -- and you felt for him.

Early on Munster looked like they had plenty to offer, with Peter O'Mahony responding within a couple of minutes of Strauss's try. By half-time Leinster had slipped out to 20-14. Ronan O'Gara kept Munster in touch with three penalties but then hit the post with a handy one early in the new half.

Straight from there, Leinster got motoring and hit their opponents with 10 points in four minutes -- first Sexton goaled from the touchline, and then O'Driscoll finished brilliantly after Fergus McFadden laid the groundwork through the middle, riding O'Gara's tackle, before great hands from Reddan kept it all going.

Rob Penney will be delighted with the way his team stuck to the task, but they badly need to get all their big players fit if their game is going to work. Schmidt, while wondering why so much trauma has landed at his door, will be glad that his team can generate this sort of momentum with so many players missing.

Scorers -- Leinster: R Strauss, I Madigan, B O'Driscoll try each; J Sexton 3 pens, 3 cons; Munster: P O'Mahony, C Murray try each; R O'Gara 3 pens; I Keatley con.

Leinster: I Madigan; A Conway (J Cooney 65), B O'Driscoll (N Reid 64), F McFadden, I Nacewa (F Carr 55); J Sexton, E Reddan; H van der Merwe, R Strauss (S Cronin 57), M Ross (J Hagan 65), D Browne (T Denton 73), D Toner, K McLaughlin (J Murphy 12), J Heaslip (capt), S Jennings.

Munster: D Hurley; D Howlett (capt), K Earls, C Laulala, S Zebo (J Downey 65); R O'Gara (I Keatley 60),C Murray; D Kilcoyne (W du Preez 57), M Sherry (D Varley 51 yc 54-64), BJ Botha, Donncha O'Callaghan (B Holland 49), D Ryan, Dave O'Callaghan (P Butler 70), P O'Mahony, S Dougall.

Referee: L Hodges (Wales)

by **profitius** Thu 04 Oct 2012, 12:40 am

The backrows could be DOC2, Dougal and POM vs McLoughlan, Jennings and Heaslip. That would be great viewing from an Ireland point of view.

Dave O'Callaghan has been one of the players of the season for Munster. His aggression, ball carring, offloading and work at the breakdown have been very impressive. Dougal has also impressed. Hes a more traditional type of 7 than what Munster had over the last decade and he has slotted in well. POM is not match fit yet but this game will bring him on a bit.

I wouldn't agree that the Munster back 3 is better. Howlett looks tired (played nearly every minute this season incl. preseason) and Hurley has been good but not great. Also, Zebo has been good but takes the wrong options from time to time.

by Sin é Thu 04 Oct 2012, 9:53 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:These two new Kiwi locks may be 6'8" but the Kiwi lock who will go down as one of the greats of the game in New Zealand and the World is only 6'5"

Brad Thorn.

POC needs to get his skates on and get some game time and form if he wants a starting spot.

Dan Tuohy is no Brad Thorn. NZ sacrificed their lineout to have Thorn in the team (and why Matfield would claim that Paul O'Connell was his most challenging opponent and not Brad Thorn or any kiwi lock).

by Sin é Thu 04 Oct 2012, 10:00 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Not to mention the fact we have already established many times that a few of the best line-out jumpers in the world play in the back row. Not sure why Sin doesn't think this counts.

I'm talking about locks whose primary duty is jumping in the lineout - not tail jumpers (when a lot depends on how good your hooker is).

by Sin é Thu 04 Oct 2012, 10:13 am

valjester wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:These two new Kiwi locks may be 6'8" but the Kiwi lock who will go down as one of the greats of the game in New Zealand and the World is only 6'5"

Brad Thorn.

POC needs to get his skates on and get some game time and form if he wants a starting spot.

Poc will be straight back in the side when he is fit, regardless of gametime, he brings so much more than his own game that he is vital for us.

Locks need to be monsters is absolute rubbish if you look at the height of the best lineout operators in the world. So much work goes into running a lineout these days that lack of height can be gotten around, and 6'5 ain't exactly short.

If height doesn't matter, how come guys like Ferris or Heislip are not locks (both decent enough at the tail of a lineout). The good up and coming young locks like Richie Gray are monsters. All the other young locks like Lawes are 6'7"-6'8" nowadays. 6'6" is the absolute minimum for an international lock nowadays. You might get away with one 6'5" lock if you partnered them with someone like Gray or Simon Shaw.

by SecretFly Thu 04 Oct 2012, 11:12 am

Ah yes....I love these debates.......about the extra inch.

Didn't we have a lovely one way back about position 6, 6.5 and 7 and what an extra inch tells you in ability in those positions. That was a classic...I'm glad to see the ruler is back.

by thebandwagonsociety Thu 04 Oct 2012, 11:22 am

Ticket sales for the game are at 43,500 sold. Two days to go before the game, this won't be a sellout by the looks of it, is this yet another sign that the Irish supporter can't afford to go to the game, or that it has been sport overload over the past weeks/months?

by Sin é Thu 04 Oct 2012, 11:25 am

SecretFly wrote:Ah yes....I love these debates.......about the extra inch.

Didn't we have a lovely one way back about position 6, 6.5 and 7 and what an extra inch tells you in ability in those positions. That was a classic...I'm glad to see the ruler is back.

Look at Leo up on his tippytoes Wink

http://www.inpho.ie/media/pw46-BhERtA3IYMRVQHFow..a?ts=Dzn3-ai2WMecnNw1KDSxdLwwibkP1bmgCjIZD8bGED4.a

by SecretFly Thu 04 Oct 2012, 11:33 am

Leo's ears are at the standard 6'3" height for his position and that's good enough for me Sin é Wink

by LeinsterFan4life Thu 04 Oct 2012, 5:32 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Ticket sales for the game are at 43,500 sold. Two days to go before the game, this won't be a sellout by the looks of it, is this yet another sign that the Irish supporter can't afford to go to the game, or that it has been sport overload over the past weeks/months?

thats about the same as last year.

by thebandwagonsociety Thu 04 Oct 2012, 5:40 pm

Thought we touched the 50k last year for the fixture. And then there was all the hoo-ha over some of the AI games not getting as many ticket sales. Guess I'm starting to lose it in middle age

by LeinsterFan4life Thu 04 Oct 2012, 6:11 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Thought we touched the 50k last year for the fixture. And then there was all the hoo-ha over some of the AI games not getting as many ticket sales. Guess I'm starting to lose it in middle age

No way! I was at the game last year. There definately wasn't 50k there.

by Sin é Thu 04 Oct 2012, 6:16 pm

Varley cleared to play at the weekend.

Varley was issued with a red card on Saturday by referee Dudley Phillips on the advice of touch judge Greg Morgan but the Disciplinary Committee saw nothing in the incident to warrant further sanction.

A suspension is compulsary for a Red Card (kick in the head). This would suggest that the Touch Judge got it all wrong and they want it to shove it all under the carpet.

by asoreleftshoulder Thu 04 Oct 2012, 6:27 pm

Sin é wrote:Varley cleared to play at the weekend.

Varley was issued with a red card on Saturday by referee Dudley Phillips on the advice of touch judge Greg Morgan but the Disciplinary Committee saw nothing in the incident to warrant further sanction.

A suspension is compulsary for a Red Card (kick in the head). This would suggest that the Touch Judge got it all wrong and they want it to shove it all under the carpet.

Did they have any additional footage to look at?

It was a strange red cos normally if a guy gets kicked in the face he gets up and starts swinging but there didn't seem to be much of a reaction from any of the Ospreys.You don't want to criticise the TJ until you see the incident but if Varley had deliberately kicked someone in the face then you'd assume he'd have got some sort of sanction.

by Sin é Thu 04 Oct 2012, 6:37 pm

I don't think there was any footage, but there must have been others around who would have witnessed it. The touch judge was adament that it was deliberate as well when Phillips asked him about it. I'm surprised the Osprey fans at the match weren't flooding the internet saying what happened. No one seems to have seen this except the Touch Judge.

Unfortunately they don't publish the findings for the Rabo citings.

by asoreleftshoulder Thu 04 Oct 2012, 7:05 pm

Sin é wrote:I don't think there was any footage, but there must have been others around who would have witnessed it. The touch judge was adament that it was deliberate as well when Phillips asked him about it. I'm surprised the Osprey fans at the match weren't flooding the internet saying what happened. No one seems to have seen this except the Touch Judge.

Unfortunately they don't publish the findings for the Rabo citings.

That's why I didn't really question it despite the lack of reaction from the player who was "kicked",when someone is that emphatic you're first reaction is to believe them.I'm not saying he was lying but it looks very much like he overreacted to something innocuous.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri 05 Oct 2012, 12:11 am

Sin é wrote:

If height doesn't matter, how come guys like Ferris or Heaslip are not locks (both decent enough at the tail of a lineout).

Eh....Hmmmm...Let me think..... Would it be because they are fast and excellent back rowers who would be wasted in the 2nd row? By any chance?
Like Rocky Elsom (Who actually IS 6'6") when he was fit. Sticking him in the engine room would be a waste of his talents. (although you can do it for strategic reasons in certain games, the same as you can play a lock at 6)

With a very tall lock, what you gain in the lineout you lose in the scrum. That's why there is usually a lock who gets the power work done, and scrumages on the TH side. Like Thorn, Damian Browne, hopefully Quinn Roux (All 6'5")

Sometimes you can get both like Bakkies Botha (6'8") power and height. Wouldn't fancy lifting him.

If locks were only used in the lineout there would be a clatter of them over 7 foot. But they also need to tackle, maul, scrumage, hit rucks etc. etc.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri 05 Oct 2012, 1:01 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:Ticket sales for the game are at 43,500 sold. Two days to go before the game, this won't be a sellout by the looks of it, is this yet another sign that the Irish supporter can't afford to go to the game, or that it has been sport overload over the past weeks/months?
thats about the same as last year.

Official figures are 48365 for last year and 50645 for 2010. That is about 3350 short of a full house and 1000 short respectively.

That counts all the season ticket holders whether they turn up or not though. Probably a bit less (but not too much less) in reality.

There are about 6500 left on ticketmaster and probably a few in the spar in Donnybrook and around the place.

I'd say they will probably sell a thousand or two more.

by Mickado Fri 05 Oct 2012, 12:18 pm

LEINSTER:

15: Ian Madigan
14: Andrew Conway
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Fergus McFadden
11: Isa Nacewa
10: Jonathan Sexton
9: Eoin Reddan

1: Heinke van der Merwe
2: Richardt Strauss
3: Mike Ross
4: Damian Browne
5: Devin Toner
6: Kevin McLaughlin
7: Shane Jennings
8: Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

REPLACEMENTS:

16: Sean Cronin
17: Jack McGrath
18: Jamie Hagan
19: Tom Denton
20: Jordi Murphy
21: John Cooney
22: Noel Reid
23: Fionn Carr

by Mickado Fri 05 Oct 2012, 12:25 pm

Hurley, Howlett, Earls, Lulu, Zebo, ROG, Murray, Kilcoyne, Sherry, Botha, DOC, Ryan, DOC2, Dougall, POM

by red_stag Fri 05 Oct 2012, 12:30 pm

01: Dave Kilcoyne
02: Mike Sherry
03: BJ Botha
04: Donncha O'Callaghan
05: Donnacha Ryan
06: Dave O'Callaghan
07: Sean Dougall
08: Peter O'Mahony
09: Conor Murray
10: Ronan O'Gara
11: Simon Zebo
12: Casey Laulala
13: Keith Earls
14: Doug Howlett
15: Denis Hurley

16: Damien Varley
17: Wian du Preez
18: Stephen Archer
19: Billy Holland
20: Paddy Butler
21: Duncan Williams
22: Ian Keatley
23: James Downey

by red_stag Fri 05 Oct 2012, 12:31 pm

I can see us snatching this one. I am a bit irritated not to see Keatley or Downey personally but think overall its a good team. We have a stronger bench that Leinster too which will help.

by **rodders** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 12:33 pm

Munster look stronger all over the park, bar half back and back row so I'm changing my prediction.

Munster by 7-10 points.

by red_stag Fri 05 Oct 2012, 12:35 pm

Do you think we have the stronger front row?

I can see that being a very strong Munster backrow.

by **rodders** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 12:39 pm

Fairly even stag but second row Munster are stronger and you look to have a lot more firepower in the backs. Bench is stronger.

Is ROG the week link though? Can Laulua and Earls gel?

If Munster click they will win I think.

by red_stag Fri 05 Oct 2012, 12:42 pm

rodders wrote:Is ROG the week link though? Can Laulua and Earls gel?

These are the two things that worry me also. However Penney has given ROG a fairly glowing testament recently talking about how enthusiastic he is about the new style of play and is finding his feet. Equally my instinct would be to play Downey but again if they could click Earls and Laulala could be lethal.

by asoreleftshoulder Fri 05 Oct 2012, 12:43 pm

I'm more confident having seen both teams,McFadden and BoD will shore up our midfield while I don't fear Laulala at 12 nearly as much as Downey.

by Mickado Fri 05 Oct 2012, 12:44 pm

rodders wrote:Fairly even stag but second row Munster are stronger and you look to have a lot more firepower in the backs. Bench is stronger.

Is ROG the week link though? Can Laulua and Earls gel?

If Munster click they will win I think.

Really? I'm not sure i agree with that Rods.

by **rodders** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 12:45 pm

Have to say I liked Keatley at 15. He has real pace and adds an extra spark of creativity but I suppose Hurley is a bit more solid.

Interesting that Madigan is 15 for Leinster rather than Nacewa. I wonder is that because Carr hasn't impressed or maybe these two guys are who Kidney is looking at for the AIs.

by **rodders** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 12:49 pm

Just an opinon Mick. There's a lot more pace and power in Munsters backline I think. Murray, Laulua, Earls, Howlett and Zebo all bring a fair threat with the ball in hand.

By contrast Sexton, Nacewa and Madigan are really the only dangermen for Leinster, unless BOD can conjour some magic.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri 05 Oct 2012, 1:09 pm

rodders wrote:Just an opinon Mick. There's a lot more pace and power in Munsters backline I think. Murray, Laulua, Earls, Howlett and Zebo all bring a fair threat with the ball in hand.

By contrast Sexton, Nacewa and Madigan are really the only dangermen for Leinster, unless BOD can conjour some magic.

Wash your mouth out Rodders. You know he can.

This one is too close to call. Our bench is muck. 2 academy players in it as it is. Munster could take it in a tight game when our starters tire.

Could this be the end of Heaslip's unbeaten run as captain AND our unbeaten run in LR since the refurb?

Hope not. Hope for a cracking game with no injuries for either side. (Especially us as we are focked with them already)

May the best team win. I think we need the win more than Munster do. Perhaps that could swing it for us?

by red_stag Fri 05 Oct 2012, 1:10 pm

I dont want the best team to win. I want Munster to win!!

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri 05 Oct 2012, 1:11 pm

red_stag wrote:I dont want the best team to win. I want Munster to win!!

So are you saying they are not the best team then? Smile

by red_stag Fri 05 Oct 2012, 1:15 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
red_stag wrote:I dont want the best team to win. I want Munster to win!!

So are you saying they are not the best team then?

They may not be. You dont have to be the best to win!

by Sin é Fri 05 Oct 2012, 1:17 pm

Not surprised by this team. Penney is treating this like any other fixture. He has a plan and he is telling everyone they are in it. Everyone is getting an equal chance to impress (even if it is a more difficult audition than usual).

Leinster's defence hasn't been great this season so there is no need to have Downey trying to punch holes in it.

Oh, and Racing Metro won't know what to expect next week.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri 05 Oct 2012, 1:25 pm

Healy
Dundon
Bent
Cullen
Roux
Ruddock
Ryan
O'Brien

Boss
Goodman
Fitzgerald
D'Arcy
O'Malley
D Kearney
R Kearney

Just made a starting 15 out of our injured players. Very decent team we are missing there.

Not counting Flanagan or any injuries in the Academy.

Edit: Should have said missing rather than Injured. Bent and Goodman are down south in the ITM

by Don Alfonso Fri 05 Oct 2012, 1:37 pm

And there's ROG.

"Meet the new boss... same as the old boss."

by **rodders** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 1:37 pm

Thats some side Jen. The challenge for Leinster is to keep themselves in contention over the first part of this season. When Schmidt gets the full deck back then Leinster will be the team to beat again but right now I think there are stronger matchday sides around.

by SecretFly Fri 05 Oct 2012, 1:54 pm

The word in the Indo today is that all Munster need to do is to stop O'Driscoll and they can have the game.

Now that might be an over-simplification...but....................... it has merit. When Jen's Injured All-star 15 are missing, more and more of the IT factor falls back onto O'Driscoll's shoulders. And certainly against Edinburgh he proved yet again that he was up to the pressure, making some very telling simple but effective moves that changed the game's contours.

Stopping O'Driscoll will certainly make life tougher for a mis-firing, 'star' missing and not at all confident Leinster side.

Of course, Munster might also win by just being the better side too Wink

. These sides this season so far both have potential to make us go wow or to groan at the plodding ineptitude of it all. That's what makes it an exciting prospect.

by red_stag Fri 05 Oct 2012, 2:02 pm

Doug Howlett makes his 100th game for Munster.

by SecretFly Fri 05 Oct 2012, 2:16 pm

Congratulations Doug. Now there's a man who knows the word loyalty.

by GunsGerms Fri 05 Oct 2012, 2:47 pm

SecretFly wrote:Congratulations Doug. Now there's a man who knows the word loyalty.

Are Howlett and Nacewa related? They really seem to be cut from the same cloth. Whose the better player?

by **profitius** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 2:49 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Congratulations Doug. Now there's a man who knows the word loyalty.

Are Howlett and Nacewa related? They really seem to be cut from the same cloth. Whose the better player?

Different type of players, Guns. I think Jared Payne is the nearest thing to Nacewa, playing in Ireland. I also think Payne could be better!

by SecretFly Fri 05 Oct 2012, 2:56 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Congratulations Doug. Now there's a man who knows the word loyalty.

Are Howlett and Nacewa related? They really seem to be cut from the same cloth. Whose the better player?

Terrible question to put to me, Guns (oh I know it was a general one) - as I'm like you, I tend to regard them as kinda brothers... no, not in the sense of being related to each other but with the same SH instincts and more importantly, the same sensibilities about playing for their respective sides - more than money, more than simple professionalism, a real sense of belonging to and identity with their respective Provinces.

To answer the question - I'd love to have both...but if I was forced to choose, I think I'd have to settle on ol' Doug. He's just a very special player in my eyes because he's willingly adapted his pacier AB instincts to suit the Munster style. Didn't shy away from it, didn't rush away to a more 'showy' side. He knew what Munster was, he wanted some of it and believes in it.

by Sin é Fri 05 Oct 2012, 2:59 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Congratulations Doug. Now there's a man who knows the word loyalty.

Are Howlett and Nacewa related? They really seem to be cut from the same cloth. Whose the better player?

They are not related, although both played for the Blues (Doug was first choice wing). Nacewa was moved around a bit.

Believe it or not, Howlett has the better try scoring record since they have come to Ireland.

Howlett=96+3 = 33 tries for Munster
Nacewa=101+6=20 tries for Leinster

by GunsGerms Fri 05 Oct 2012, 2:59 pm

They are pretty similar. They look alike, both can play wing or fullback, both from Auckland and are around 92 kg, in their thirties. Both hard hitting, excellent tacklers and attacking threats. Both exceptionally, dedicated, reliable and professional. Both quite fast and elusive. Lots of similarities really.

by **rodders** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:02 pm

Howlett is a class act. Awesome player.

Same applies to Nacewa.

No Jarod Paynes though..... Smile

....

by Sin é Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:04 pm

SecretFly wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Congratulations Doug. Now there's a man who knows the word loyalty.

Are Howlett and Nacewa related? They really seem to be cut from the same cloth. Whose the better player?

Terrible question to put to me, Guns (oh I know it was a general one) - as I'm like you, I tend to regard them as kinda brothers... no, not in the sense of being related to each other but with the same SH instincts and more importantly, the same sensibilities about playing for their respective sides - more than money, more than simple professionalism, a real sense of belonging to and identity with their respective Provinces.

To answer the question - I'd love to have both...but if I was forced to choose, I think I'd have to settle on ol' Doug. He's just a very special player in my eyes because he's willingly adapted his pacier AB instincts to suit the Munster style. Didn't shy away from it, didn't rush away to a more 'showy' side. He knew what Munster was, he wanted some of it and believes in it.

His loyalty is fantastic. He has put up with 1 year contracts (must have been worrying for him last year when he was out for the season) when he probably could have moved to France and made enough money not to ever have to work again.

Its great his loyalty is being repaid as well with the Munster captaincy.

by Kingshu Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:05 pm

If I had to pick one, whos better I think it depends what you needed.

A winger, Howlett,
If squad size is an issue, Nacewa covers more positions, and class in them all.

What I like most about them is how dicated they are to their Province, not only both class, but both really added to the Province on and off the field.

Adding to a Province, off field is what makes them class acts, rather than class players.

by GunsGerms Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:09 pm

Kingshu wrote:If I had to pick one, whos better I think it depends what you needed.

A winger, Howlett,
If squad size is an issue, Nacewa covers more positions, and class in them all.

What I like most about them is how dicated they are to their Province, not only both class, but both really added to the Province on and off the field.

Adding to a Province, off field is what makes them class acts, rather than class players.

I dont think there really is one definitive answer as to who is better. They are both quality and key players for their teams.

by **rodders** Fri 05 Oct 2012, 3:10 pm

Yeah I'm with you Kinshu.

Howlett is the better winger and the better finisher. For me any young wing should look to Howlett as the template.

Nacewa is more creative, more versatile to generalise a better footballer.

Overall you couldn't say one is better than the other, they both just fit their respective teams so well.

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