British and Irish Lions Watch 2012-13

First topic message reminder :

This thread started many months back and has been a gradual examination of who is picking who for the impending Lions Tour.

Now the Six Nations is over and all we have left to judge is the HEC and the various national leagues.

fa,

Just a thought, not know what breakdown of squad will be but I have always said that players like Jones and SOB who can 6, 7 and 8 will have a better chance of touring due to their versatility.

Lets say it was a toss up between Jones who can play 6, 8 and 2nd row and a specialist lock or No6 then I feel Jones would get the nod, especially if for argument sake it meant they could take an extra prop

thebluesmancometh wrote:Laidlaw would also be in my squad, and must certainly be in the mix.

He's got a great rugby brain. (I know it's a cliche but it's true.) Plus he can kick goals and his tactical kicking from scrum half is usually excellent.

LP

He seems to have developed a sense as he has played 9 and 10 recently. His kicking is good but he also has a solid all round game, plus he's beaten Aus recently hasn't he.

Not sure who mentioned that issue, of winning down in Aus, but it's a good point. The Welsh boys might still have this wierd mental voodoo whereas the English and Scot (and Irish to a lesser extent) know deep down it can be done.

I'm not saying Laidlaw will get into the Test side, but I'd definitely have him in the touring party.

Me too, but then I'd have Phillips too so what do I know.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm not saying Laidlaw will get into the Test side, but I'd definitely have him in the touring party.

As what?
His use would be as a flexible bench option for the midweeks to protect a scrum half/fly half but I cant ever see him being selected for a test as either a 9 or 10 unless theres an injury crisis. He isnt good enough in either position, not one of the best 3 FHs or SHs available (let alone best 2)

bedfordwelsh wrote:fa,

Just a thought, not know what breakdown of squad will be but I have always said that players like Jones and SOB who can 6, 7 and 8 will have a better chance of touring due to their versatility.

Lets say it was a toss up between Jones who can play 6, 8 and 2nd row and a specialist lock or No6 then I feel Jones would get the nod, especially if for argument sake it meant they could take an extra prop

In that case, Kelly Brown could have a greater chance

One of the best 6's and can pay 7 and 8 to a reasonable degree

Risky,

Yeah can't dis-agree just used those names as examples, furst choice will or hopefuly will be specialists but if there is a close call then versatility will come into it IMO

Don't listen to PSW, if it were up to him he'd take Care Youngs and Dickson

I'm wondering how much the intangbibles count?

I'm talking character, calmness under pressure, ability to problem solve on the field, that sort of thing.

If those things count they count hugely in favour of English BI Lions.

Are the welsh carrying psycological damage from being beaten by the Wallabies 4 times on the bounce?

Will they wilt at the sight of that gold jersey?

Will the irish behave petulantly if they cannot bully the aussies?

These questions need to be asked and answered.

Tri,

SCW tried that approach in 05 and look where that got him, it will be down to the coaches and captain to gel whoever gets picked into the best team to beat them

bedfordwelsh wrote:Tri,

SCW tried that approach in 05 and look where that got him, it will be down to the coaches and captain to gel whoever gets picked into the best team to beat them

Errrrr

What approach would that be old chap?

Triangulation wrote:I'm wondering how much the intangbibles count?

Will the irish behave petulantly if they cannot bully the aussies?

Really is that the best you can come up with? No mention of how Ireland steamrolled Australia the last time they played them or how England were impotent v an experemental Australia side in the AIs. Surely that would be more pertinent to focus on from a Lions perspective.

One stamp and Ireland have a name for being petulant. All teams get cited occasionally.

Scotland know how to beat Aus - can we have the majority of the places?

I think its a relevant question regarding how much belief the Welsh would have in beating the Aussies. Gatland hasn't been able to instill it in them the last 5/6 times of asking, so why would he be able to do it now?

Look, we'll just have to go with what we've got. Most of our best loosies are 6s or 6.5s, converted into 7s, so that's what we'll probably take. This brings Brown, Robshaw, Wood, O'Brien, O'Mahony, Jones (R), Harley and the injured Lydiate, Ferris and Croft into the argument. Quite a few of them will go, but not all of them. Of the bona fide, typical 7s, Armitage can't get a game, Warburton is off form, Rennie is injured and Henry is being used sporadically. Only Tipuric can present a case just now.

Same with the locks. Most of the better ones are of a particular type, headed in my mind by Gray and Launchbury. If that's what we're best at now, there's no point trying to find a lesser player with a slightly different skill-set.

[quote="thebluesmancometh"]Don't listen to PSW, if it were up to him he'd take Care Youngs and Dickson [/quote

Why not Wigglesworth if you want a guy who cant play 9 or 10 well enough?

Dont listen to Gatland, he'd pick Phillips (who if you remember correctly was absolutely bobbins on the last tour)


Id take Care, Youngs, Phillips, Laildlaw, Sexton and Farrell. No wait .....


Joking aside Id rather have Phillips than Laidlaw. There surely has to be another 10 ahead of him (in addition to Farrell and Sexton who are going, we all know that right?) even if you cant bear the though of 4 English half backs on the tour.
As I said previously the only justification I could find to take him is his flexibility to help cover in midweeks if theres players with knocks. One good game against and Italian side that didnt turn up and suddenly hes the new Michalak Parra? I dont buy it personally. If it comes down to taking him (with everyone fit) its a depressing statement about the lack of quality/on form halfbacks from Wales and Ireland (Sexton excused)

Rhys Priestland targets early shock April return from injury

Wales and Scarlets fly-half Rhys Priestland believes he is two months away from a surprise return to action.
A worst-case scenario of nine months out was the stark prognosis for Priestland after rupturing his Achilles in a Heineken Cup game in December.
But the 26-year-old said: "Everything's gone well with the surgery and the rehab's going really well.
"I'll hopefully be back in two months, maybe the start of April. I'd love to play a part in the Scarlets' run-in."
Priestland's injury while facing Exeter came shortly after Wales' autumn series whitewash against Argentina, Samoa, New Zealand and Australia.

The Times Lionswatch team after round 2

Hogg
North
Barritt
D'Arcy
Visser
Farrell
Youngs
Grant
Best
Cole
Gray
Parling
Jones
Robshaw
Faletau

The telegraph on which scots could make the tour. Good to see the talented Mr Harley in the mix.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/britishandirishlionsrugby/9861807/Lions-watch-Which-Scots-will-Warren-Gatland-pick.html

maestegmafia wrote:The Times Lionswatch team after round 2

Hogg
North
Barritt
D'Arcy
Visser
Farrell
Youngs
Grant
Best
Cole
Gray
Parling
Jones
Robshaw
Faletau

D'Arcy really? I think thats the first team list I have seen him on

Gordon D'arcy?

Gordon's alive??

lostinwales wrote:Gordon's alive??

I had similar thoughts. Especially after the way both Matt Scott and Billy Twelvetrees had played.

While im a passionate England supporter i only have 4 Englishmen in my starting Lions.

I think that England are far greater than the sum of their parts.

I'm a big fan of selecting on form rather than reputation, particularly if that form is test form. That said, I've broken my own rule on one or two. Both Ferris and Lydiate currently injured but Lydiate promising to be back for the England game.

I've gone for bolters in Zebo (currently injured) and Hogg. I just think on fast Australian pithces that pace will be required in the back 3.

Picking a backrow unit from one nation (especially a good one) I think is the way to go as well otherwise I might have had Ben Morgan in for Faletau.

1. Healey (Ire)
2. Best (Ire)
3. Cole (Eng)
4. Launchbury (Eng)
5. Gray (Sco)
6. Lydiate (Wal)
7. Tipuric (Wal)
8. Faletau (Wal)
9. Care (Eng)
10. Sexton (Ire)
11. Zebo (Ire)
12. Tuilagi (Eng)
13. O'Driscoll (Ire)
14. North (Wal)
15. Hogg (Sco)

Good team there.

Ai, good team that maestegmafia. BOD captain?

My only shake would be to see more of Tuilagi at 12..! At the moment he is begind Twelvetrees and Barritt as a 12 or 13. I would take either of those over him if I were selecting the team tomorrow.

maestegmafia wrote:My only shake would be to see more of Tuilagi at 12..! At the moment he is begind Twelvetrees and Barritt as a 12 or 13. I would take either of those over him if I were selecting the team tomorrow.

12. Twelvetrees 13. BOD is liquid rugby waiting to happen.

EnglishReign wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:My only shake would be to see more of Tuilagi at 12..! At the moment he is begind Twelvetrees and Barritt as a 12 or 13. I would take either of those over him if I were selecting the team tomorrow.

12. Twelvetrees 13. BOD is liquid rugby waiting to happen.

That midfield partnership plying ball for Halfpenny, North and Hogg.... sounds good.

My only other query would be Care ahead of Youngs. If you are going on form then surely Youngs would have to start at the moment

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:My only shake would be to see more of Tuilagi at 12..! At the moment he is begind Twelvetrees and Barritt as a 12 or 13. I would take either of those over him if I were selecting the team tomorrow.

12. Twelvetrees 13. BOD is liquid rugby waiting to happen.

That midfield partnership plying ball for Halfpenny, North and Hogg.... sounds good.

That does sound good. I am a huge fan of a creative inside centre. Twelvetrees has finally been given a chance and has proved up to the task. A few more games to really settle into International rugby and he could well be the main man in the twelve shirt.

Triangulation wrote,

'Picking a backrow unit from one nation (especially a good one) I think is the way to go as well otherwise I might have had Ben Morgan in for Faletau.'

You could if you picked the form back row with Wood & Robshaw. They have also played together in the last 12 months.

maestegmafia wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:My only shake would be to see more of Tuilagi at 12..! At the moment he is begind Twelvetrees and Barritt as a 12 or 13. I would take either of those over him if I were selecting the team tomorrow.

12. Twelvetrees 13. BOD is liquid rugby waiting to happen.

That midfield partnership plying ball for Halfpenny, North and Hogg.... sounds good.

That does sound good. I am a huge fan of a creative inside centre. Twelvetrees has finally been given a chance and has proved up to the task. A few more games to really settle into International rugby and he could well be the main man in the twelve shirt.

Tuilagi should never be a 12. Its never worked when its been tried.
BOD can be, another serious option is to play him there with Tuilagi outside him. JD2 needs a revival in form to put him back into the mix IMO, Billy Twelvetrees is a bit of an outsider at the moment (but the kind of all round player many of us have wanted to see at 12 for England for a long time) as is the Scottish chap who had one good game against a poor side and is suddenly SBW. Barrit is more of a coaches player than a fans one, the internet would go into meltdown if he were picked for the lIons tour despite him being the automatic choice for his country. I like to pretend he doesnt exist.
As things stand its hard to imagine a Lions partnership that isnt based around BOD, given hes the stand out candidate for captain and ...BOD. Im going him 12 Tuilagi 13

PSW what's wrong with Barritt?

He's been good for England. One of the most underrated players.

BS as I said, hes a coaches player not a fans one. Its simply not allowed to suggest he could be a Lion on internet fora, Im not even going to go there.

Why? Is it because he's branded as a South African? Don't see much complaints of including a Dutchman and Kiwi in the Lions.

The calls for the Zimbabwean have subsided.

beshocked wrote:Why? Is it because he's branded as a South African? Don't see much complaints of including a Dutchman and Kiwi in the Lions.

The calls for the Zimbabwean have subsided.

I think it is because he is very unspectacular. He is very good, but he doesn't have the flare or personality to his game that say Tuilagi does.

He is massively underrated. He was the rock in England's backline last weekend.

[quote="Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler"]

thebluesmancometh wrote:Don't listen to PSW, if it were up to him he'd take Care Youngs and Dickson [/quote

Why not Wigglesworth if you want a guy who cant play 9 or 10 well enough?

Dont listen to Gatland, he'd pick Phillips (who if you remember correctly was absolutely bobbins on the last tour)


Id take Care, Youngs, Phillips, Laildlaw, Sexton and Farrell. No wait .....


Joking aside Id rather have Phillips than Laidlaw. There surely has to be another 10 ahead of him (in addition to Farrell and Sexton who are going, we all know that right?) even if you cant bear the though of 4 English half backs on the tour.
As I said previously the only justification I could find to take him is his flexibility to help cover in midweeks if theres players with knocks. One good game against and Italian side that didnt turn up and suddenly hes the new Michalak Parra? I dont buy it personally. If it comes down to taking him (with everyone fit) its a depressing statement about the lack of quality/on form halfbacks from Wales and Ireland (Sexton excused)

Having watched Laidlaw for a few years now he is far superior to Philips in his game management, the speed he gets the ball away and his tactical nous. He is no world beater perhaps but he will provide the outside backs with far better ball than Philips. Lets see how the rest of the 6 nations goes - having had his game and confidence badly dented by Robinson last year he is recovering now - hopefully he will show his true skills this season and make his case for the lions strongly. This is the man who masterminded the defeat of Toulouse by a weak Edinburgh side. He was absolutely world class that day.

By Matt Burke for the SMH


Twelve years ago the British and Irish Lions sent a squad to our shores to conquer the Wallabies and all that stood in front of them.

The grand plan was perfectly executed by Graham Henry's men for most of the tour, sweeping aside all comers up to the second half of the second test in Melbourne. It was a moment inspired by Joe Roff that saw a turnaround of fortunes for the home team.

Representation in the Lions is so steeped in tradition that accepting the red jersey is a massive honour, if you happen to follow a father or grandfather in the jumper, there is more cause for celebration. For the British and Irish Lions players, tours come as a limited opportunity, to get a chance to take home some silverware is the ultimate goal. The team that travelled here in 2001 was packed full of international stars. Players that would have fitted into any world XV. Led by Martin Johnson, the team was well prepared.

What we saw as players, was a juggernaut sweeping through the West and heading our way. The speed and width of play was a feature as was the power up front.

The Lions were short priced to win the series and after the demolition in Brisbane, certainties to take the series and make it a clean sweep. But how things turned, and a couple of moments shaped the series in favour of the Wallabies.

1. An intercept try off a Jonny Wilkinson pass by Joe Roff just after the break in Melbourne. The finish was one of the best.

2. A turnover on the left hand side of the field later in the half that saw Roff get a double.

3. Moving to Sydney and Daniel Herbert scores a double, then earns a yellow card, the drama, but more was to come.

4. With the score 29-23 with minutes to go. A lineout for the Lions 5 metres from the Wallabies line.

We could do the math. Driving lineout, try, JW kicks the conversion from the sideline and a scoreline that reads 30-29.

What transpired has gone down in folklore, or that's what Justin Harrison tells us. Harrison, in his first test, overcalled a defensive lineout call and stole the ball at the front of the lineout from the Lions captain, Johnson. Talk about moments that shape a game. This saved the series.

These games have such significance for northern hemisphere players but theses games are a once-in-a-career opportunity for the Wallabies.

Twelve years to wait for redemption is a long wait and I suspect that the British and Irish Lions of 2013 team are seeking revenge for the series loss in 2001. They won't say that publicly but there is an underlying sense of unfinished business.

The outcome of 12 years ago was so significant for the home team because the Wallabies had just beaten the best that the north had
to offer.

For the BIL there is no chance for that team to get square, a chance to redeem themselves, because the nature of the Lions series is that the group of 30 men who took to the field in the three tests will never be able to repeat that feat. Brian O'Driscoll and Wilkinson may be the only ones to figure for the Lions from 12 years ago and they would like some closure from that tour.

They could provide the first-hand account of how close they got.
At present the Lions are the favourites and much will be scrutinised over the coming weeks with the Six Nations in full flight.
Counting the days until Brisbane.

Tour schedule

June 1: Lions v Barbarians. Hong Kong Stadium.
June 5: Lions v Western Force. Patersons Stadium, Perth. 6pm
June 8: Lions v Queensland Reds. Suncorp Stadium. 7.30pm
June 11: Lions v Combined NSW/Qld Country. Hunter Stadium. 7.30pm
June 15: Lions v NSW Waratahs. Allianz Stadium. 7.30pm
June 18: Lions v ACT Brumbies. Canberra Stadium. 7.30pm
June 22: First Test: Lions v Wallabies. Suncorp Stadium. 8pm
June 25: Lions v Melbourne Rebels. AAMI Park. 7.30pm
June 29: Second Test: Lions v Wallabies. Eithad Stadium. 8pm
July 6: Third Test: Lions v Wallabies. ANZ Stadium. 8pm


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/lions/hunt-for-revenge-puts-lions-on-top-20130216-2ejsh.html#ixzz2LEDzOjhq

Funny I thought the turning point was when Richard Hill got taken out

Dont know about everyone else but I really look forward to seeing Cian Healy in a Lions jersey. I particularly enjoy how he always gets stuck right in at the Coleface of every match. For me he is an absolute Shoe in for test starter.

GunsGerms wrote:Dont know about everyone else but I really look forward to seeing Cian Healy in a Lions jersey. I particularly enjoy how he always gets stuck right in at the Coleface of every match. For me he is an absolute Shoe in for test starter.

Is he going to stamp his authority on his opposite number?

lostinwales wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Dont know about everyone else but I really look forward to seeing Cian Healy in a Lions jersey. I particularly enjoy how he always gets stuck right in at the Coleface of every match. For me he is an absolute Shoe in for test starter.

Is he going to stamp his authority on his opposite number?

Nice, I hope so.

lostinwales wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Dont know about everyone else but I really look forward to seeing Cian Healy in a Lions jersey. I particularly enjoy how he always gets stuck right in at the Coleface of every match. For me he is an absolute Shoe in for test starter.

Is he going to stamp his authority on his opposite number?

Unlikely to happen. But definitely number one candidate for the loosehead shirt.

Apert from a "must not be mentioned" Brad Barritt has hardly been mentioned. He is probably the first back on Sl's teams sheet, backs anyway. The captains the best defence (so far anyway) in the 6N. Against possibly the best or at least most inventive backline in the world, what do you want, a 17 stone lump or someone that can order backline in both attack and defence, pass the ball and knock over anything that comes towards him. Massively underrated player.

Also Croft is fit again,we saw in SA what he can do on hard grounds agianst the best. Is there anyone better as a lineout option or in broken play?

I would like BOD in his prime. Even an on form BOD now. Barritt is competent but no more and lacks creativity.

Croft - plenty of good lineout players around altho he is a good player.

TJ wrote:I would like BOD in his prime. Even an on form BOD now. Barritt is competent but no more and lacks creativity.

Croft - plenty of good lineout players around altho he is a good player.

Is Croft likely to get a look in with england this six nations? Or more HEC time at Leicester?

Croft's comeback from injury is being taken very slowly as a precaution, he won't be back for England before the Lions and i'm not sure if he'll get time in Europe although Leicester desperately need him.

On top form he can be one of the best English players out there, probably a lot better then Wood who's a Lions option. But it's been a long time since we've seen that and to me he'd be a crazy gamble to take, but then Gats does seem to like a punt on players.