Scarlets V Leinster 20/10/12

First topic message reminder :

Leinster Rugby wrote:The Leinster squad trained in UCD on Monday afternoon with the Leinster management reporting no fresh injury concerns ahead of Saturday's Round 2 Heineken Cup trip to face the Scarlets in Parc y Scarlets (KO: 1.35pm)...

Fergus McFadden, Richardt Strauss and Heinke van der Merwe all required stitches for head wounds following Saturday’s 9-6 victory over Exeter, but all three players are expected to take a full part in training this week.
Leo Cullen and Cian Healy both came through their respective comebacks from injury and will be available for selection again this weekend, while Gordon D’Arcy and Rob Kearney are also likely to be available for selection.

In a further fitness boost, international scrum-half Isaac Boss successfully came through the last half hour of Leinster ‘A’s opening round British & Irish Cup victory over Leeds Carnegie on Saturday night following his recent arm injury.

David Kearney and Rhys Ruddock are making progress on their injuries and they have both stepped up their rehabilitations. It is hoped that they could be in contention for the province’s B&I Cup trip to Pontypridd this weekend.

Darren Hudson damaged his shoulder in the closing moments of the Leeds game and the Academy full-back is in doubt for this weekend.

Travelling in Hope rather than Expectation. Hope Darce makes it. From what I heard initially of Rob Kearney's injury I'll be amazed if he even benches. They are all undercooked anyway.

Only positive I can see is thatwe know the Scarlets pretty well at this stage.

If they lose they are pretty much gone, if we lose we are depending on Exeter to take points off Clermont and Scarlets

I'm happy that so many are concerned about how O'Driscoll is bringing Leinster down/holding Leinster back with his continued presence in the side.

All concerns duely noted. Meanwhile the old creaking and slow master has been keeping us alive in some of the Pro12 games - still! - with all the young buzz boys around him unable to move unless he shows some instinctive vision.

His ego will keep him here as long as he feels he can pull his own weight - the entire Leinster side are short on form not just him. I could though highlight a major concern for me about him if honest, but I won't as the enemy might be listening

BOD is an over rated midget,
Living off the 2001 Lions tour reputation.
Mind you i see plenty of people in the word ride a wave of mediocre talent for years!
Look at Jonathan Ross for a start.

Over rated in height yes. Some legendary sightings had him at 6' 7"... but it turns out those were just sightings of some of the people he took out in his career

Jonathan Ross? Good commentator but wasn't all that great a 12 - I agree with you.

SecretFly wrote:I'm happy that so many are concerned about how O'Driscoll is bringing Leinster down/holding Leinster back with his continued presence in the side.

All concerns duely noted. Meanwhile the old creaking and slow master has been keeping us alive in some of the Pro12 games - still! - with all the young buzz boys around him unable to move unless he shows some instinctive vision.

His ego will keep him here as long as he feels he can pull his own weight - the entire Leinster side are short on form not just him. I could though highlight a major concern for me about him if honest, but I won't as the enemy might be listening

Who is concerned about BOD bringing the team down? BOD is still one of our most valuable players and still one of the top centres in europe.

#Justice4OveratedMidgets.

Just read the match write up in the Times, pretty negative outlook. I'm flipping delighted with that result, delighted.

Aside from the try we conceeded, which I've already given credit for, out defense was very good. Individual mistakes (such as BODs) can be fixed but our defense has leaked a lot of scores this season and the last two games have shown a marked improvement.

Kudos to Mike Ross btw, love seeing a prop get MOTM.

Oh and Drico had a savage game, for the record. Some unreal turnovers won.

Just heard his wife is carrying child. Great news, only 18 years to wait until he can retire.

succession planning at its best!

An overrated midget in the oven. What wonderful news.

BOD 2 is conceived!!!!

Nostradamus is right on the button again!

Mickado wrote:Oh and Drico had a savage game, for the record. Some unreal turnovers won.

I'd disagree that he had a savage game. He had an ok game by my book. His defence was ok bar that moment, he made 1 turnover, was pretty anonymous in attack kicked the ball too much.

Meh.

Has been doing well in Pro12 though, that break against Treviso for one was very good.

BOD2......can't wait! Keep him away from Tana Umaga's kid though yeah?

Have to say the criticism of Priestland is partly unjustified. He did not lose us the game, and actually, he's been playing pretty well as a fly half from the 6N onwards (when he first started getting criticised en masse).

His biggest issue is obviously kicking. It says something about the poor off-season the Scarlets had in terms of recruitment that we only have one kicker in the senior squad (Gareth Owen if he gets in the team?). That's shocking. Priestland has a big boot, and as his conversion of Maule's try proved he is a good kicker. He's just inconsistent. Which means, internationally, he won't be the first choice goalkicker, and regionally, we need someone to share the load. But we have no one who can do this. The thing is, whereas Priestland would once crumble from one missed kick, he now backs himself to kick the next one, and the rest of his game play is isn't affected. Again, however, I'll stress the issue is that his goalkicking is too inconsistent.

In terms of actually marshaling the backline, he looks the best 10 in Wales to me so far this season (not considering Hook); Biggar had a shocking start to the season, and I don't feel he distributes to and organises the backs as well as Priestland. That said, I'd be happy with Biggar starting at 10 for Wales, as he should have gone to and perhaps started in Australia. At the moment it's evens between the two (don't forget that Biggar is playing behind a far better, and more importantly, competitive pack). Priestland has the better defence, running game (marginally, neither is fantastic), passing and, apart from kicking, consistency of decision making: he's far less likely to go 'missing' or do something petulant and stupid than Biggar. Biggar has undoubtedly the better kicking from tee, and his boot is a better weapon in open play as well (although Rhys actually has a longer kick). So it's a toss up, and I'd still say Priestland hasn't played poorly enough to merit being dropped, but only if Halfpenny is fit. At international level, you need an 80%+ kicker.

As for the rest of his kicking, he actually has a massive boot, and an accurate one: he's changed his kicking technique to kicking it on the diagonal rather than the point, and his penalties regularly go 60-70m. He's also pretty effective at the bomb/up and under, something the Welsh set-up seems to have encouraged him to do, and he's pretty good at both length of time in the air and placement of these. But this is ignored/forgotten. Also, the final kick at the end, biting off too much and putting it the wrong side of the corner flag, was understandable. There was, what, 30 seconds to go? There's no point putting it on the 22, only to go through 10 phases of getting nowhere/backwards, before coughing the ball up. And that's the crux: the Scarlets pack is rubbish, and is definitely not as good as the pack we were building over the last 3 seasons. No idea how McCusker and Turnbull made the Wales squad, Lewis Evans of the Dragons deserves it over the latter, and McCusker is in there for lack of alternative-does Powell not deserve a recall? With the greatest of respect, McCusker is not captain material, Phil John is not a starting prop at regional level let alone Europe, and George Earle has been utterly anonymous all season. Hopefully Vallejos and Adriaanse are European quality, because at the moment apart from the hookers and Shingler, it's a mid table Rabo pack.

I think that does alleviate some of the blame from Priestland: the pack can't secure quick ball let alone punch it up the middle, Rees is a poor lineout thrower, and Phil John cannot scrummage/adds nothing around the park. I hope McCusker and Turnbull kick on again and start fulfilling the promise that showed two years ago. Considering we've lost Lyons and Morgan in the back row, the lack of leadership is evident (and I have to say, Priestland is now one of the leaders of the team, and I think he's doing a pretty good job of it, but is being let down- his decision to go for touch rather than points is only poor when the lineout is overthrown).

As for the game, Leinster deserved to win. Seemed to be brutal the first few minutes, kept up dominance for the next half hour, but from then on seemed to lack leadership, for whatever reason: no direction whatsoever. Scarlets had so much territory and possession, yet couldn't do anything with it because it was slow (not Tavis's fault, if he's having to dig the ball out of the ruck, he could pass it like Peel but the receiver will still get smashed because the defence will have had so long to line their men up).

From a Scarlet perspective, we were never going to get out of this group in first place, even an Amlin position was/is pushing it. We have to be competitive twice against Exeter, although can see us getting squeezed out away from home. Recruitment needs to be made at loose-head, and a modern day 7 needs to be acquired from somewhere. I like to look of Kelly, he's held himself up well, and along with Vallejos and Snyman, there's 3 decent locks there, but Earle hasn't impressed. If there's greater leadership/a few better players in certain positions in the pack to make us competitive, I can see the likes of McCusker and Turnbull coming back into form, but at the moment all the expectation weighs on their shoulders, and they're not coping. Again, looks like a transitory season unfortunately: certain Saffas arriving late, our best players who left not replaced. Rabo and LV Cup to play for, but perhaps the real satisfaction has to come from how many players (backs) we are producing for a successful Wales team...after all, this was the purpose of regionalism...

great assessment miaow

Miaow...i largely agree but under pressure your 10 needs to produce the goods he seems to crumble more often than not...that penalty to the corner needed to go in and he stuffed it. As for his place kicking, it is completely unreliable.

Ok mowgli, but could you not pick out everything he does well, which obviously outweighs the bad, and say this is proof that he doesn't fluff it under pressure?

It's true that he is inconsistent, but it's wrong to say 'he lost us the game', for Wales or the Scarlets. Look at the kick he was so chastised for at the end of the 2nd Australia test: did he call for the ball? Why were the forwards not collectively certain, apart from Ryan Jones, that they should and could keep the ball for the remaining 60 seconds? He had no one lined up outside or behind him, sent a decent kick down the middle, and yet, two penalties later, he was equally if not more so blamed for not closing out the game as Hibbard, who conceded both (I think he ran offside for the first...?) penalties.

It's part of the Welsh psyche that we expect our most talented player, from an early age, to play 10. Therefore, on the international/professional stage, we assume our 10 will always perform well, even if others, especially in the pack, are not. This is wrong. Since Stephen Jones is out of the picture, we do not have someone who is not fazed under pressure: Jones was (is) genuinely world class, and although he perhaps lacked intrinsic long range kicking and running ability, he more than made up for it with his game intelligence. But he's gone. Aside from Hook, none of the obvious contenders- Priestland, Biggar...Tovey? will fill his boots, but that is what we are working with. For Wales, we can choose Biggar, arguably the 'form' 10 in many peoples' eyes, who is naturally conservative and likes to direct play territorially via his boot. We can choose Priestland, who I believe is steady and a good organiser/distributor (similar to SJ), but inconsistent and, likewise, attacking the gainline is not his most comfortable play. He's also inconsistent, as is Biggar, but where Biggar's perhaps comes from over-confidence (perhaps not so much these days, but the fact remains he can still make poor decisions), Priestland has in the past lacked confidence, though his inconsistency, (a kick missed by a few feet) I feel, is more forgivable than making a rash decision to hoof the ball when there are men outside, as Biggar often does. But that is my opinion. Or there is Tovey, a man who seems to have all the running and kicking ability, but is made of glass and cannot tackle (Biggar has improved his defence). Also not convinced about his decision making/prone to going missing. Definitely made the right move going to the Blues, in the medium term, let's hope he can string a few games together when he's fit again.

Which leaves Hook. Undoubtedly the most talented running 10 we've had in ages. His natural instinct is to run, to beat his man, which makes his aesthetically, as much as anything, the most appealing option to fans. He has played some shockingly poor rugby at 10, both for Wales and the Ospreys. The performances he gave in the 6N '11 were diabolical, the game against France especially. But he played well in the warm up games, seemed to have nailed the shirt when SJ got injured, only for it to backfire terribly (let us not forget his goal-kicking, too). But that has gone. I thought he had an excellent 6N, although he featured very little, and that when he came on he looked assured and, frankly, quality.

I have no idea how he is playing in France. I've heard reports ranging from both ends of the spectrum, and some in the middle. Ideally, he'd be my choice to start at 10 in the AI, but as I have said previously, Biggar and Priestland would be fine as well.

What I'm defending is the fact that fans often think the grass is going to be greener: will Biggar, and more importantly Wales, perform any better if Priestland is dropped? I doubt it to be honest, especially if 1/2P is kicking. I'm sure what gets said on 606 hardly affects Priestland, but still, the targeting and chastising of him by the public is undeserved. Consider the bigger (Biggar? Sorry...) picture, which is that, in my opinion, he is still the form 10 in Wales (bar perhaps Patchell, but you're hardly going to chuck him in and expect it to go well). To address your point directly, why should there be any greater expectation on him to 'perform under pressure' than any other player/position on the pitch? Is Phil John excused for repeatedly being rubbish in the scrums because he's a prop, Rees for missing key lineouts because he's a hooker? Consider the whole picture, and Wales could do little better than to select Priestland for the first game (I also fully expect him to make the Lions tour).

I'm not confident in Biggar starting. I think Priest is the best to start with (without the kicking duties), and would like to see Biggar come off the bench. It'll probably be Hook on the bench though covering the backline, unfortunately. Prydie should be in the squad some way or another.

Have to say I agree with that, aside from the discomfort with Hook. Prior to Liam Williams breaking through last season, and Halfpenny successfully converting to a solid, if not natural, full back, I thought Prydie would eventually come good and be the long term prospect for the 15 shirt. Surprised it's happened so quickly at the Dragons, and it's harsh to have Harry Robinson in ahead of him. However, when you consider that it's the 3rd/4th choice 3/4 position, it's more about experience for the young lad, and he'll probably, fitness permitting, not see a lot of game time. So it sort of makes sense to maintain him ahead of Prydie, as there's no a lot of quality wingers in Wales (although Fenby's in great form, he'll probably never make the step up in competition).