Leinster in talks with a top notch 2nd row?

First topic message reminder :

Just seen this on the Leinsterfans forum. "There are serious talks going on with Top Notch second row. Obviously I cant say who,but hopefully we can get this guy across the line..."

The guy that posted this is supposed to be an ultra reliable source. Any thoughts on who it could be?

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Mick. He is just trying to distract from the absence of props in the Munster Academy

That and the fact that the Ireland front row are likely to be the Leinster front row. (Presuming that Healy is OK) and we have 11 props in the squad & academy.

Can't argue with that one.

Ali Williams and Jason Eaton have signed new super rugby contracts, which should rule them out. I suppose they could still move North and play until the end of the Heineken Cup. Not sure if the NZRU would allow it though.

We get our hookers in South Africa now not the East Midlands. And things have changed since we sent Jennings your way. We don't really do opensides any more. Can I interest you in a 6.5 though?

If he can scavenge and the breakdown we'll take him. We are doing a nice line in mobile aggressive hookers following on from Meyer's influence at the club.

Mickado wrote:Ah yeah, we don't care about developing a second row, we've managed to develope players all across the rest of the pitch (and Toner is from the academy too of course) but in that second lock position, we just decided we couldn't be bothered. Too easy to buy someone in, that's the Leinster attitude.

Totally agree with this (sarcasm et al I mean).

Stag I think we should be allowed to take in a second row if we want.

We have done more developing players than most of the other provinces.
We field all Irish XV's much more frequently than any of the other provinces.
We have an Irish captain (and two vice captains) of our province.
We have developed props, backrows, halfbacks, centres, back 3 guys.

Healy-Ruddock-Ryan-Murphy-Heaslip-McLaughlin-SOB-Sexton-Madigan-Fitzgerald-McFadden-Kearney-K2-O'Malley the list goes on.

We have had issues developing young locks (Toner the only significant one to date who has a good number of HCup starts for his age considering lock is a position that tends to peak around 28 or so) it is not down to a lack of effort. Sometimes the players just aren't good enough.

Again I harp back to the fact that we give so many Irish guys a chance, Isa is the only one who keeps guys out. The same can not be said for any of the other provinces.

If you guys are allowed to have 4 NIE's on the pitch at any one time, so are we sure.

I know this is a reoccuring trait with us but we have actively tried to solve the problem. Our schools and academy just haven't turned out a guy who has the potential to be that lock. Ben Marshall I thought could have been one but he has since moved to 6 which is the right call for him as a player.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

We get our hookers in South Africa now not the East Midlands. And things have changed since we sent Jennings your way. We don't really do opensides any more. Can I interest you in a 6.5 though?

If he can scavenge and the breakdown we'll take him. We are doing a nice line in mobile aggressive hookers following on from Meyer's influence at the club.

Bejyzus Sam.

You'll be tellin' 'em about da Coleman next.
Cape yer freckin trap shut will ye ya gobshoite.

Pete, Leinster are no better or worse than anyone at developing players.

Munster could just as easily say O'Mahony, Murray, Zebo, Sherry, Ryan, Earls, Kilcoyne, Butler, D.O'Callaghan, Hanrahan etc.

Ulster have Fitzpatrick, McAllister, Gilroy, Marshall, Marshall, Cave, Jackson, Ferris etc.

The fact you have an Irish captain is not even remotely relevant. You give Irish guys a chance no more than any province - we had 14 Irish players starting last week.

IMO Leinster should not be allowed another foreign second row as this will be the 4th time you have gone looking for a foreign lock. You have plenty of locks including a foreign lock already.

This is just bully boy tactics and a refusal to develop players when its easier to plug a hole.

As I say until you try you never know. Its clear that Leinster fans are unwilling to try develop a lock and risk their performances instead they want another Brad Thorn.

I think it might be handier to say all Provinces use foreign blood to spice up the areas they feel they need to spice up.

And it's hardly Leinster fans that are calling the shots in player recruitment talks in the boardroom. What the fans want is irrelevent - to the coach and, more especially, to the IRFU who sanction it all.

Anyway lads I must dash off. Refreshing to get a good Irish debate without Sexton v ROG ruining things.

See ye later (bunch of second row hating Ladyboys)

SecretFly wrote:I think it might be handier to say all Provinces use foreign blood to spice up the areas they feel they need to spice up.

And it's hardly Leinster fans that are calling the shots in player recruitment talks in the boardroom. What the fans want is irrelevent - to the coach and, more especially, to the IRFU who sanction it all.

Yes - its actually important to say that Leinster are not actually looking for a foreign second row are they? I think thats just something a fan here said? Just when I thought I was out, 606 pulls me back in.

OK Im off for real now!

Its all rumours. We were supposed to be in talks with a big name 2nd row in the summer. We got Roux.

There arent really any big name 2nd rows available at the minute. So these arguments seem kinda pointless.

Yeah it is nice not being drawn in to that malarky for sure.

Personally I think Leinster is the best at developing players and I'm proud to say it too. We generally have more Irish guys on the pitch playing for us than the other provinces which can't really be denied despite Munster having 14 last week, (I think we had a full 15). Our academy is arguably one of the best in the Northern Hemisphere also regarding talent and depth of talent.

The captaincy is not irrelevant IMO as more often than not Dougie and Muller are nailed on starters. Muller is injured but how often has Dougie not started a game this season?

As I said before I'd much prefer if you guys gave us Nagle or Ryan or the lads up North gave uis Stevenson or Henderson. That would be many times better in my eyes. The fact of it is: we have a severe gulp in talent in the second row compared to every other area on the pitch (lock was the only position where we don't have a guy normally in the running for an Irish place)

Bejyzus Sam.

You'll be tellin' 'em about da Coleman next. Cape yer freckin trap shut will ye ya gobshoite.

Cole ran roughshod over the Irish scrum in last years 6N they might have noticed him. A bit of Irish recruitment has helped Tigers in the past, especially when a fool of an Ireland selector told a prowd man from Naas that his youngest son was too slow and wouldn't make it in rugby.

greytiger wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

We get our hookers in South Africa now not the East Midlands. And things have changed since we sent Jennings your way. We don't really do opensides any more. Can I interest you in a 6.5 though?

If he can scavenge and the breakdown we'll take him. We are doing a nice line in mobile aggressive hookers following on from Meyer's influence at the club.

Bejyzus Sam.

You'll be tellin' 'em about da Coleman next.
Cape yer freckin trap shut will ye ya gobshoite.

Hey! How can he talk without an accent like that?

red_stag wrote:
IMO Leinster should not be allowed another foreign second row as this will be the 4th time you have gone looking for a foreign lock. You have plenty of locks including a foreign lock already.

Ah here. He's a project player now. Qualifies for Ireland in time for the next WC

red_stag wrote:I know that but his time at Tigers transformed him and Jennings. They went away as fairly average players they came back as very good rugby players with an abundance of leadership.

They have done great work for Leinster but those years of playing week in and week out travelling across England did far more for them than their early seasons at Leinster IMO.

Using that logic,then Leinster developed Strauss.

I have to say, I'd prefer to see Toner trusted to start the big HC games than a foreign star. He has obvious positive attributes. He has improved in the last two years. Schmidt should back himself as a coach to work on Toner's weaknesses and make him better.

And at this stage it could only be good for Toner's morale if he knew for sure Schmidt see's him as vital. He must have doubts if another lock is signed.

Surely any new signing, if singed long term would have to form a partnership with Toner not Cullen no?

Could partner Quinn Roux?

red_stag wrote:Could partner Quinn Roux?

We don't even know how good Quinn Roux is yet. He definatley isn't HC standard yet.

Why did you buy him?

red_stag wrote:Why did you buy him?

I dont know. Everyone was confused by the signing on the Leinsterfans forum. I guess he has a lot of potential but he needs gametime in the pro12 first before he gets near a starting HC place.

In the new rules that were coming in on NIQ signings was there not a regulation on not been able to sign a foreign players in the same position one after the other? or has that been done away with?

red_stag wrote:Why did you buy him?

Simples.
He is a promising tough young lock in the Brad Thorn mould. (not in the Thorn class now just potential)
He is now qualified as a project since Strauss qualified. He is on a one year contract. So if he gets Sykes syndrome and needs to go home soon we have lost nothing. But if he lives up to his potential and comes good we can give him another year (or maybe two) and away we go.

Why sign him? He is a free roll of the dice. Simple as that. Suits everyone.

The stormers think he is coming to the HC champs and will go back at the end of the season a better player after his one year. Leinster get their free roll (probably at very little cost) and Roux himself gets some invaluable experience and the potential for more if he works out. Oh yeah, and a year away in Europe.

Update:

I didn't know that Roux had a one year deal. I heard project player and assumed you had a foreign lock for next three years.

I have softened my stance.

Yet another overseas player?

Grow your own!

Debates over Hershy. You missed all the fun yesterday.

red_stag wrote:Debates over Hershy. You missed all the fun yesterday.

Stag, you'll be happy to know that it looks like we are in talks with two junior players who are involved with another province.

This doesn't make any sense as we don't need anymore squad player 2nd rows. We already have plenty of those plus promising youngsters in the acadamey. We need a big name!

Ladies and Gentlemen I give you; the IRFU



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1212/1224327776078.html

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Ladies and Gentlemen I give you; the IRFU



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1212/1224327776078.html

Why are you blaming the IRFU? He obviously just wants to leave Connacht for a new challenge. If he didn't join Leinster, he probably would have joined one of the English clubs. At least now he's staying in Ireland.

Not sure I like this......

Artful_Dodger wrote:Not sure I like this......

I just hope we give them a player. As much as I would love Jordi Murphy to stay with us, he would be a great signing for Connacht.

Strange.

I can't blame the lad for wanting to move to Leinster. Bigger club, more likely to get HEC place and so play against better opposition which keeps him in the frame for selection for Ireland. But that only works if he is playing every week. Will he play every week for Leinster?

Also, he's 31. A three year deal is good.

Not sure what the IRFU could do as they seem to have been willing to allow Connacht to offer the same deal. You can't block lads from moving if they feel it will further their career.

Real shame for Connacht though.

MrsP wrote:Strange.

I can't blame the lad for wanting to move to Leinster. Bigger club, more likely to get HEC place and so play against better opposition which keeps him in the frame for selection for Ireland. But that only works if he is playing every week. Will he play every week for Leinster?

Also, he's 31. A three year deal is good.

Not sure what the IRFU could do as they seem to have been willing to allow Connacht to offer the same deal. You can't block lads from moving if they feel it will further their career.

Real shame for Connacht though.

He will be a starter for Leinster because Leo is set to retire at the end of this season.

Ok good point. I hope whatever Leinster offered him the irfu helped Connacht match it. If it was for playing reasons: fair enough

This is getting to be cruel for Connacht

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Not sure I like this......

I just hope we give them a player. As much as I would love Jordi Murphy to stay with us, he would be a great signing for Connacht.

Would be a nice place for BOD to wind down his career like Dan Parks. I know its silly, but if I were a great like BOD, I think i'd quite like the possibility of seriously boosting the form and fame of a club like Connacht. Dreamland though!

Connacht lads must be gutted losing arguably their best player.

Maybe before Leo retires he could head Wesht for a season

clivemcl wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Not sure I like this......

I just hope we give them a player. As much as I would love Jordi Murphy to stay with us, he would be a great signing for Connacht.

Would be a nice place for BOD to wind down his career like Dan Parks. I know its silly, but if I were a great like BOD, I think i'd quite like the possibility of seriously boosting the form and fame of a club like Connacht. Dreamland though!

Keep dreaming. Taking BOD's salary onto the Connacht books would probably destroy the rest of the good strength in depth that they are developing. Also, give it another year and would he get into that side in front of McSharry or Griffin?

How will Connacht ever be anything other than a feeder team?

How long before the other provinces decide they want Henshaw, Marmion, McSharry, O'Halloran.

If any of these guys finish their careers at Connacht I'll eat me hat.


(Can we get a hat eating emoticon? It comes up a lot)

clivemcl wrote:How will Connacht ever be anything other than a feeder team?

How long before the other provinces decide they want Henshaw, Marmion, McSharry, O'Halloran.

If any of these guys finish their careers at Connacht I'll eat me hat.


(Can we get a hat eating emoticon? It comes up a lot)

I'm with you Clive. They need to be allowed to develop a team and culture as a club. Right now the only culture they have is of a team that gets its players pinched.

If Cronin, Hagan, Carr and Keatley were all still in Connacht, (and now McCarthy most likely) Connacht would have much more impressive depth of talent.
Again I'd encourage the provinces to let a few guys go to Connacht.

clivemcl wrote:How will Connacht ever be anything other than a feeder team?

How long before the other provinces decide they want Henshaw, Marmion, McSharry, O'Halloran.

If any of these guys finish their careers at Connacht I'll eat me hat.


(Can we get a hat eating emoticon? It comes up a lot)

Guys this is Mike's decision. He wanted to leave Connacht, it was his own choice. If he didn't join Leinster he would have joined an English club. We shouldn't force a player to stay with a province.

Connacht are still attracting good players. Last season they got Nathan White and they are in talks with a few Leinster players. They also have some good young options such as Mick Kearney and Andrew Browne who were both immense against Biarritz. Along with Naopu and Swifty, they still have good options in the 2nd row.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

clivemcl wrote:How will Connacht ever be anything other than a feeder team?

How long before the other provinces decide they want Henshaw, Marmion, McSharry, O'Halloran.

If any of these guys finish their careers at Connacht I'll eat me hat.


(Can we get a hat eating emoticon? It comes up a lot)

Guys this is Mike's decision. He wanted to leave Connacht, it was his own choice. If he didn't join Leinster he would have joined an English club. We shouldn't force a player to stay with a province.

Connacht are still attracting good players. Last season they got Nathan White and they are in talks with a few Leinster players. They also have some good young options such as Mick Kearney and Andrew Browne who were both immense against Biarritz. Along with Naopu and Swifty, they still have good options in the 2nd row.

What Leinster lads are they in talks with LF4L?

There has been a lot of talk about Carr, Murphy and Hagan all heading West so I reckon that's what Leinsterfan is on about. Although bar Jordi Murphy they're pretty well covered in the TH and Wing spots.

The IRFU need to make a concerted effort to make Connacht a desirable place to play.
They are getting the support, now they need to get some consistent results. Younger players need to be encouraged to go there, and if they are really performing at a top level they won't be so likely to move on.
You can't complain about this move because at they end of the day it was up to the player.

Only reason Connacht got to beat Biarritz last weekend was because Leinster won the HEC the year before. You can't win it without being ruthless in head hunting players (not saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying that's what the three 'big' Provinces will continue to do as having consisdered best players in Ireland makes the goal of HEC wins easier).

So Connacht continues to suffer but the upswing is that they are this year, and last year, gaining valuable experience in HEC, something that wouldn't have come their way at all had not another Irish Province done so well in that very competition.

So people look to Connacht and can see improvements and HEC performances of merit, and they can sigh that if only Leinster didn't steal so many of their players they'd even improve still further. Maybe so, but it's highly unlikely that improvement would be taking place in the premiere European competition. Catch 22.

Good point fly.

Indo is saying Cronin may go back.

SecretFly wrote:Only reason Connacht got to beat Biarritz last weekend was because Leinster won the HEC the year before. You can't win it without being ruthless in head hunting players (not saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying that's what the three 'big' Provinces will continue to do as having consisdered best players in Ireland makes the goal of HEC wins easier).

So Connacht continues to suffer but the upswing is that they are this year, and last year, gaining valuable experience in HEC, something that wouldn't have come their way at all had not another Irish Province done so well in that very competition.

So people look to Connacht and can see improvements and HEC performances of merit, and they can sigh that if only Leinster didn't steal so many of their players they'd even improve still further. Maybe so, but it's highly unlikely that improvement would be taking place in the premiere European competition. Catch 22.

What Connacht players have Ulster headhunted?

In recent years, we've brought in IQ players from Australia (D'Arcy, Doyle), England (Tuohy, Black and Caulfield in the Academy), and South Africa (Herring). It’s quite possible to find IQ players without weakening Connacht. Tuohy, Black and Caulfield all played for underage Ireland teams – it’s not like they wouldn’t have been on anyone’s radar. Didn’t Leinster recently sniff out Bent? Haven’t Munster taken a punt on Dougall?

The only players we have signed from Connacht in recent memory are McComish and NOC, both returning Ulstermen who were surplus to requirements. And Connacht in turn have taken gambles on those two, Mark McCrea, TJ Anderson and Willie Faloon.

Connacht don’t need to be raided for the “big three” to improve their squads. If you see no problem with it, that’s absolutely fine, but don’t pretend it’s a harsh reality, driven by necessity.

Of course, Leinster simply made an offer. It’s easy to paint them as comedy villains, hovering like evil talent-plucking vultures. But it’s McCarthy who’s chosen to wave them goodbye. Rory Best got some good offers from France when Ulster were scrapping it out with Connacht for the third HEC place. Paul Marshall revealed that if Ulster hadn’t made him an offer a number of years ago (which they only did because Boss decided to leave), he would just have given up professional rugby, as he didn’t want to play with anyone other than Ulster.

McCarthy decided to go, despite receiving (according to reports) an identical offer from Connacht. I’m not sure brainwashing from D4 was involved.

Don...

Don Alfonso wrote:

What Connacht players have Ulster headhunted?

Forgive me, Don... I only read that bit of your post. I'll read the rest of it when I get a moment but that was the bit that interested me for now.

That - was - a - generalisation.

Meaning, Connacht is seen as the poor cousin who has players taken away from it off and on by the other Provinces. No, my area of expertise is NOT the transfer market. I don't have a whole lot of interest in who goes where and when and how, or how much was paid for him. That's a sub-love category in rugby...but not mine.

A generalisation - to make a point. It happens.