ATP WORLD TOUR FINALS- LIVE MATCH THREAD

[User 774433]

First topic message reminder :

WIll be updated each day with new schedule:
THE FINALE:

Evening: 8:00 PM Start
NOVAK DJOKOVIC (1) vs ROGER FEDERER (2)


Group standings:
Group A:
Djokovic- 3-0
Murray- 2-1
Berdych- 1-2
Tsonga- 0-3

Group B:
Federer- 2-0
Ferrer- 1-1
Del Potro- 1-1
Tipsarevic- 0-2

Semis:
Djokovic bt Del Potro
Federer bt Murray

[laverfan]

Seriously why isn't anyone brave enough to talk to Murray about his outbursts. Does he really have no idea what he's doing?...

Why does a player need to confirm to a specific personality, HE?

Makes for a little fun viewing though. More fun than the rallying up and down the center of the court anyway. In their defence I did only see a tiny bit of the match and it could have been some sort of tactic?

See, even you enjoyed the show, and you can continue to do just that.

[Danny_1982]

Just finished watching it on sky+. To be fair I think Novak edged it and deserved the win. Murray was very good for a set and a bit, really hitting through the ball and serving great. Then through a combination of a dip and Novak suddenly raising his level he lost the momentum.

Despite the comeback in the third I never really thought he played that well after being broken in the second set. It was fight that kept him in it, rather than regaining the level of the first set. The difference was paper thin again, and 1 or 2 points seem to always decide it when these two play nowadays. However I thought Novak played slightly better overall and it was the right winner.

Novak's volleying was outstanding. Coming to the net that much against someone who passes as well as Andy is brave, and I'd usually say stupid... But it's probably what won him the match! Not as good as Shanghai or New York but still a very good match.

[Mad for Chelsea]

anyone watching the doubles?

some great returns there from Nielsen and him and Marray have just broken Mirnyi and Nestor to go 4-3 up in the first.

[Calder106]

Good summary Danny. Agree that Djokovic deserved to win. His play at the end of set 2 and to 3-1 in set 3 was top drawer. Virtually no UE's during that period and winning a number of points with excellent play when under pressure from Murray.

Thought it was a good match though. It looked like neither player wanted it to be a marathon as there were other matches to come so we didn't see too many extended rallies. Nice to see that Hawkeye can comment on it after only seeing 'a tiny bit' but then again she was able to comment on the USO final without watching it.

[Mad for Chelsea]

Marray is broken when serving for the set, but the Danish-British pair play a great TB, take it 7-3 and are a set to the good.

[hawkeye]

Seriously why isn't anyone brave enough to talk to Murray about his outbursts. Does he really have no idea what he's doing?...

Why does a player need to confirm to a specific personality, HE?

Makes for a little fun viewing though. More fun than the rallying up and down the center of the court anyway. In their defence I did only see a tiny bit of the match and it could have been some sort of tactic?

See, even you enjoyed the show, and you can continue to do just that.

As I said I was only able to watch a tiny bit but it was interesting watching Novak watching Murray as Murray self destructed because he thinks he is so good it's just not fair when he loses... Some say he does this because he is a perfectionist but from a certain angle it looks like he does it because he is naive enough to think he is perfect. Sometimes you lose because the other player is better and not because you have done something stupid. To behave like that is not only arrogant but self destructive. Of course there are no rules about personality in tennis but it is still strange to see a "grown up" behaving like this in public.

[Danny_1982]

As I said I was only able to watch a tiny bit but it was interesting watching Novak watching Murray as Murray self destructed because he thinks he is so good it's just not fair when he loses... Some say he does this because he is a perfectionist but from a certain angle it looks like he does it because he is naive enough to think he is perfect.

From what angle does it look like Murray thinks he's perfect?

That comment, plus the rest of your post, quite possibly makes it your most ridiculous post ever. And that is saying something!!

From a certain angle he looks like he thinks he's perfect.... I can't get over that one!

Priceless!

[FedsFan]

I agree Murray's game started to fall apart a little and a little IS ALL Djokovic needs to exploit it to his advantage. The momentum shifted, as it did in Shanghai and for set 3 and 4 in New York. It is very difficult to maintain good momentum throughout a match especially against the top players for all of the match.Maybe if this was 5 sets Murray would have won when Djokovic's level dropped a little.

There is no doubt Murray and Djokovic will qualify for the semis. If either does not it will be due to some crazy mathematics. Murray has to be careful. He has lost 2 sets one to Djoko's 1. I think Berdych may be able to beat Tsonga as he has had a better run of late than Tsonga.

On the other side of the draw, I think Federer is going to have his hands full with Ferrer and I for one would not be too surprised if Ferrer finally gets that win against Federer. He is playing better than Federer in my opinion despite losing a set. Fed needs a win tomorrow as I really think JMDP has made inroads into Fed's game.

[lags72]

I agree with FedsFan assessment, and notwithstanding Federer's quite outstanding indoor record overall (and more specifically at the WTF) I believe that both Delpo and Ferrer have every chance of toppling him this week.

Father Time is inevitably catching up with the Swiss Maestro and his "It's been a great career" comment immediately after the Tipsy match is still ringing in my ears .......

Ferrer himself is not that much younger than Fed of course ...... BUT Daveed has something approaching 400 fewer matches on the body clock

[Mad for Chelsea]

Marray and Nielsen once more come through a tough final set super TB , 12-10, to qualify for the semi finals. Superb effort

[The Special Juan]

Wonderful from Marray + Freddie. They could win this whole thing at this rate and why not. Hoping they get another one over Lindstedt + Tecau too, I don't like either of them as Lindstedt looks psychotic and Tecau wears a cap indoors.

[FedsFan]

Father Time is inevitably catching up with the Swiss Maestro and his "It's been a great career" comment immediately after the Tipsy match is still ringing in my ears .......

Ferrer himself is not that much younger than Fed of course ...... BUT Daveed has something approaching 400 fewer matches on the body clock

I think he is happy with his career. I think he too realises he cannot go on forever and he is at the end of his career. Whether he can do an Agassi I don't know. Interestingly Pat Cash yesterday said if the court speeds were different and the baseline game was not in every single tournament, Federer could go on for a while if serve and volley was possible. AELTC LISTEN UP!!!

[User 774433]

Fedsfan, Lags, good to see you guys back

FF, does S&V also not put a lot of strain on your body?

[Danny_1982]

S&V players can end the point quicker, I think is the point that was being made IMBL. It usually means much shorter rallies which means less strain.

If courts were speeded up then Roger could go on for years. He is easily the best on a fast court. Murray likes fast conditions, Rafa and Novak not so much... But Roger is the king on faster courts.

I wouldn't mind one of the slams and a few other tournaments being speeded up a bit for the sake of variety.

[lags72]

FedsFan - It's hard to say what would count today as 'doing an Agassi' (although I know what you mean in broad terms...)

The tennis world has changed dramatically even in the relatively short time since Andre left the tour, and I'm not sure that the same sort of success he enjoyed into his thirties can be replicated, given the demands and intensity of competition in the modern game.

Agassi won the last of his Slams at the AO 2003 aged 32, but he had just one top 20 player to beat along the way (Grosjean ranked only 16) and all other opponents were ranked well below 30. Just can't see a similar scenario happening again.

Even more dramatic and "of its day" is the Connors record : 109 titles and over 1200 match wins. I'd bet all my wordly goods (I think ... ) on nobody ever coming even close.

Meanwhile ...... back in the present .... JWT holds on to go 4-3

IMBL : thanks

[FedsFan]

S&V players can end the point quicker, I think is the point that was being made IMBL. It usually means much shorter rallies which means less strain.

If courts were speeded up then Roger could go on for years. He is easily the best on a fast court. Murray likes fast conditions, Rafa and Novak not so much... But Roger is the king on faster courts.

I wouldn't mind one of the slams and a few other tournaments being speeded up a bit for the sake of variety.

Yup, spot on. Less energy sapping long rallies would help players such as Federer. IMBL, I would imagine S&V to not take a huge toll on the body. Watching Murray/Djoko today it was amazing how long those rallies were and how each player was pulling the other one from side to side on the court. They are fit and and young and can do it but I don't think for very long. Murray looks like he has gained more muscle and that's a lot of weight to have to shift when you are constantly chasing that ball.

[Mad for Chelsea]

so Berdych cruises through set 3, and moves to +2 in game difference (Murray -1). It leaves everything wide open for Friday as nearly anything could happen. Tsonga and Djokovic could go through with wins, or any two of Berdych, Djokovic and Murray could go through.

One thing for Murray fans: a straight sets win for Murray puts him through regardless of the outcome of the other match.

[FedsFan]

Murray will definitely win as Tsonga is not on court mentally. In any case every time they have played, Murray has won. Cannot see an upset.

[The Special Juan]

I really don't fancy Berdy to beat Djokovic anyway, especially on a slow hard court.

[Mad for Chelsea]

right then after a bit of mental arithmetic (so it may be faulty), this is what I came up with:

If Murray wins in straight sets he goes through, joined by either Djokovic (if he wins at least a set against Berdych) or Berdych (if he beats Djokovic in straight sets).

If Murray wins in three and Berdych wins in three then Murray and Djokovic go through. If Murray wins in three and Berdych wins in two then Djokovic and Berdych go through. Obviously if Murray and Djokovic both win they both advance.

If Tsonga wins in three and Djokovic wins then Djokovic and Murray advance. Obviously if Tsonga and Berdych win then Berdych and Djokovic advance.

If Tsonga wins in straight sets and Djokovic wins in straight sets then they both advance. If Tsonga wins in straight sets and Djokovic wins in three then Berdych and Djokovic advance.

Hope this made sense...

[Mad for Chelsea]

so Murray advances if

- he wins in straight sets
- he wins and Djokovic wins at least a set
- Djokovic wins and he wins at least a set

Djokovic advances if:

- he wins at least a set
- he loses in straight sets but Murray doesn't win in straight sets

Berdych advances if:

- he wins in straight sets
- he wins in three sets and Tsonga beats Murray
- he loses in three sets and Tsonga wins in straight sets

Tsonga advances if:

- he and Djokovic both win in straight sets

This is probably clearer, though it's conditional to my previous post being correct

[The Special Juan]

I'll take your word for it. Amazing to think that Tsonga could lost 2/3 matches but still qualify.

[Mad for Chelsea]

I wonder what the players prefer in this sort of situation: playing first and possibly with more freedom, or playing last and knowing exactly what's required.

I remember I think two years ago Murray playing Ferrer in the last match and knowing he needed at least either a set or 7 games, and starting horribly nervoulsy, losing the first two games badly. He came through 2 and 2 I think eventually, but I felt he had a really nervous start that day.

The good thing is (if I'm right) that the group can't come down to % games won (essentially because Djokovic beat Tsonga in straight sets) which makes everyone's life that much easier

[Danny_1982]

Great work MFC.

So Tsonga is right in this then, as Novak winning in straight sets is far from unlikely. Should mean that Jo will come out swinging like a mad man.

Will be very interesting. I fancy Murray and Novak to come through.

[Mad for Chelsea]

also of interest could be who tops the group:

- Murray if he and Berdych both win in straight sets (Berdych 2nd)
- Berdych if he wins in straight sets and Murray doesn't (Djokovic 2nd)
- Djokovic otherwise

I think that's all covered

[Mad for Chelsea]

surprisingly in an article on l'Equipe website they're stating that Djokovic is through to the semis. I'm sure that's not right as if Murray and Berdych both win in straight sets they'll both be 5-3 in sets won-lost whereas Djokovic will be 4-3 (all on two wins). Journalists should really check their facts sometimes... They do state that Tsonga needs to beat Murray in straights and hope Djokovic does the same to Berdych to go through so we agree on that

[User 774433]

so Murray advances if

- he wins in straight sets
- he wins and Djokovic wins at least a set
- Djokovic wins and he wins at least a set

Djokovic advances if:

- he wins at least a set
- he loses in straight sets but Murray doesn't win in straight sets

Berdych advances if:

- he wins in straight sets
- he wins in three sets and Tsonga beats Murray
- he loses in three sets and Tsonga wins in straight sets

Tsonga advances if:

- he and Djokovic both win in straight sets

This is probably clearer, though it's conditional to my previous post being correct

Cheers for that

[laverfan]

Good luck to players for today's matches.

[lags72]

Federer racking up an alarming number of UE's and his first serve is already on holiday.

Daveed looks very much in the zone, brimming with confidence after Valencia and Paris and fully pumped up. My money's firmly on him.

If he can't beat the Fed today ..... perhaps he never will .......

[lags72]

I'm sure Federer is aiming to achieve his highest-ever UE count in a Bo3 match ......

[bogbrush]

Probably just missed his record with a late improvement.

Into the semis though.

[JuliusHMarx]

Maybe it's got to the stage where Fed just uses Ferrer for practice - hence all the UEs.

[laverfan]

Federer

Ferrer. Well played.

[The Special Juan]

When will Federer retire? When Daveed beats him I imagine. Good match, neither at their best but Federer didn't need to be and that was the key.

[lags72]

Some excellent stuff by Ferrer, very impressive and pretty much still in the zone after Valencia, Paris, and his match with JMDP the other night. He certainly had chances to break his jinx today.

I'd say Federer played to his true level for little more than around 15 minutes in all : saving 3 BP's in the opening game of the match ; breaking Ferrer to take the first set ; and finally finding some first serves in the TB decider.

But, as so often, they turned out to be crucial minutes .......

[User 774433]

What's the odds Tipsy retires from the match when he's one the brink of losing?

[FedsFan]

I am not convinced Federer can defend this title successfully with a 1st serve percentage as low as it was today. Against Djoko/Murray/Berdych a poor serve means he will be hammered for winners and no cheap points.

[laverfan]

@FedsFan

Need to see how Federer plays against Del Potro.

Ferrer was the other in-form player in that group, who Federer handled pretty well. The interesting part was Federer having to save 9/10 BPs.

Ferrer played really well.

[hawkeye]

This made me laugh.

Cutest thing, Rogers girls walking down corridor of O2 pointing @ every picture on the wall and saying" RAFA"- mmm they know the rival lol

https://twitter.com/roger_rasheed/status/266591666822074370

[laverfan]

This made me laugh.

Cutest thing, Rogers girls walking down corridor of O2 pointing @ every picture on the wall and saying" RAFA"- mmm they know the rival lol

https://twitter.com/roger_rasheed/status/266591666822074370

If Rafa has daughters in the future, it would be nice to revive a Federer-Nadal WTA rivalry similar to their fathers'.

[FedsFan]

@FedsFan

Need to see how Federer plays against Del Potro.

Ferrer was the other in-form player in that group, who Federer handled pretty well. The interesting part was Federer having to save 9/10 BPs.

Ferrer played really well.

Yes, Ferrer played well this time compared to Madrid which was a multitude of doubt faults. I think Federer will fall short against JMDP. JMDP's service games are very hard to get into as we saw in Basel and at the Olympics. Federer tends to throw in a really poor service game and cannot get the break back. Also, JMDP has that massive swing when making his f/h returns so there is a lot of pace on the returns. I am wondering whether Fed's back is giving him a few problems which could explain the poor serves and double faults. Either way I really don't think Fed should get into a dog fight with JMDP because he has the semis the next day and its best he conserves as much energy as possible. A long match with JMDP will kill any hope of a decent showing in the semis as it did at the Olympics. Fed has 3 days play on the trot (assuming he wins the semi) which is not going to help him either. You have to think the final will be contested by the fittest two at the moment i.e Djokovic/Murray.

[laverfan]

I think Federer will fall short against JMDP. JMDP's service games are very hard to get into as we saw in Basel and at the Olympics. Federer tends to throw in a really poor service game and cannot get the break back. Also, JMDP has that massive swing when making his f/h returns so there is a lot of pace on the returns. I am wondering whether Fed's back is giving him a few problems which could explain the poor serves and double faults. Either way I really don't think Fed should get into a dog fight with JMDP because he has the semis the next day and its best he conserves as much energy as possible. A long match with JMDP will kill any hope of a decent showing in the semis as it did at the Olympics. Fed has 3 days play on the trot (assuming he wins the semi) which is not going to help him either.

Federer did play some long rallies with Ferrer. The second set was a bit better. It may come down to TB sets with Delpo, two being the better outcome.

You have to think the final will be contested by the fittest two at the moment i.e Djokovic/Murray.

Between Ferrer and DelPo, if Ferrer makes it as the second semifinalist, he may help Federer to retain the title.

Murray with 1-1 and Berdych with 1-1 are in dangerous position of being eliminated. Murray will be likely the second semifinalist from the other side.

Some interesting permutations...

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/Finale%20SF%20Qualifications.aspx

[User 774433]

Murray and Djokovic will go through, I'm confident on that.

[Mad for Chelsea]

from a Murray perspective the best result in the Djokovic-Berdych match is probably a Djokovic win in three sets as this would mean:

- Tsonga is out
- Murray only needs one set to go through.

Berdych winning in straight would be interesting as Murray would need a straight sets win to go through, but that would also see him topping the group.

[Guest]

Pretty tough. Its good for Murray to know this time exactly what he needs to do before going on to court. Wonder if Tsonga will wake up if he knows he can't qualify. I wouldn't expect him to tank it of course but...

[Guest]

Hello Falzy



So you are back.

I am the emancipator



emancipator

[Guest]

Back? Have i been here before? I mean I've read this forum since it was made but i'm fairly certain ive never posted before.
In any case Hello too

[Guest]

As the freelance moderator of this forum I grant you permission to post oh Falzy, son of 21.

Ye may bring your friends too.

I have spoken.



rotapicname

[User 774433]

Welcome to the section Falzy

[The Special Juan]

I don't think Berdbrain will get anywhere near Djokovic today.

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