Ireland XV vs Fiji, Match Thread and Build-Up

[Notch]

First topic message reminder :

Looking ahead to this game, Eoin Reddan is a doubt apparently but there are no other new injury concerns. Ferris and O'Connell are confirmed out of this and next week.

I've already talked about the issue of this game not being considered a full international which can be found HERE and we should should probably try and keep discussion of that issue to the relevant thread.

I'm very much of the opinion that we should largely keep the same team. I don't see how wholesale changes are going to help prepare the firsts for Argentina. There should of course be a few tweaks (please put Earls back in the back three) but this team needs time on the pitch together. Of course, I think our problems run deeper than a lack of pitch time together but we're in a desperate situation here. We need to beat Argentina and this game has to be treated as a dry run for the week after.

[ME-109]

Sin..how did Ivan Dineen and Ronan O"Mahoney do?

[LeinsterFan4life]

where you at the game? I heard Jordan Coughlan didnt play great. Which is ok because he was playing 12. I wonder if they will continue to try convert him to a centre.

Archer shouldn't be in the Ireland squad if he's struggling against McGrath (although McGrath is a great prospect and looks ready to step up) surely Hagan after his performance against against Duncan Jones would have deserved a call up. But it doesn't really matter unless Ross or Bent gets injured. I hope Archer does improve though, he seems really dedicated.

Yes, but I missed about the first 25 mins or so. Coghlan was a stand-out Leinster player (but to be honest, that is not saying a lot). Leinster didn't have much other than a scrum. Not that many footballers, plenty of fans of the gym at a guess).

we had 8 academy players and 1 player (Griggs) who isnt even in the academy.He must be on trial or something. So I dont think losing by 6 points is a bad effort when we had a chance of winning at the end.
Good experience for the young lads. Adam Byrne looks promising.

[Sin é]

Re Archer v Hagan - only 3rd TH prop in the camp. No biggie - only holding tackle bags. Archer was probably handier because at the start of the camp, he was playing on the Sunday night in Wales and Archer had his game on Saturday night.

Re: McGrath v Archer. Just for the record, as far as I know John Ryan who was Munster's loosehead today, is a TH.

[Sin é]

Sin..how did Ivan Dineen and Ronan O"Mahoney do?

Dineen did well - a few handling errors, but always made lots of ground. Moved out to the wing when Bohane came on.

Ronan O'Mahony was good - scored the first try.

All the Munster players looked well drilled - played like the 1st team with forwards on the wing. Felix & JJ the only standout backs.

[ME-109]

Always thought Dineen didn't get enough opportunity with Mcgahan, Penney seems to rate him.

Where do you think JJ will end up...OH or IC? Looks as if OH is where he will ultimately end up...

[Sin é]

where you at the game? I heard Jordan Coughlan didnt play great. Which is ok because he was playing 12. I wonder if they will continue to try convert him to a centre.

Archer shouldn't be in the Ireland squad if he's struggling against McGrath (although McGrath is a great prospect and looks ready to step up) surely Hagan after his performance against against Duncan Jones would have deserved a call up. But it doesn't really matter unless Ross or Bent gets injured. I hope Archer does improve though, he seems really dedicated.

Yes, but I missed about the first 25 mins or so. Coghlan was a stand-out Leinster player (but to be honest, that is not saying a lot). Leinster didn't have much other than a scrum. Not that many footballers, plenty of fans of the gym at a guess).

we had 8 academy players and 1 player (Griggs) who isnt even in the academy.He must be on trial or something. So I dont think losing by 6 points is a bad effort when we had a chance of winning at the end.
Good experience for the young lads. Adam Byrne looks promising.

They looked inexperienced and some poor decision making. They looked a bit better with Reid at 10 (Marsh replaced him just before half-time).

The Leinster scrum was really on top though.

[ME-109]

By the way...there are loads of tickets still available if anyone is interested

[Sin é]

Always thought Dineen didn't get enough opportunity with Mcgahan, Penney seems to rate him.

Where do you think JJ will end up...OH or IC? Looks as if OH is where he will ultimately end up...

OH - you'd want him to get his hands on the ball as quickly as possible. I was in the stand where most the great and the good of Leinster rugby were and they were even ohing & ahing about him! He just looks really classy - great variety to his game and a superb,long, flat pass (Sexton could take a lesson or two from him).

[ME-109]

Ideally by the end of this season he should be first choice for Munster or at the least challenging

[Notch]

Archer blows hot and cold, looks like Penney is willing to give him full 80 mins which is important. Still young enough...

Yeah, you'd expect him (and other props around the country his age) to be inconsistent and have bad days at this stage. Think Penney is realistic about needing to let Kilcoyne and Archer learn on the job for Munster. No other way. He's rotated those two and the two South African props well this season. They've had plenty of gametime. The big problem we have is we had no young props come through at all for a while. Now there are a few young props around who could develop into decent players with enough gametime but it will take them getting gametime.

I'm very curious to see how Kilcoyne does on Saturday. Deacon Manu is far from the most feared tighthead in the Pro12, but he's no mug.

[ME-109]

Don't know if you have seen Kilcoyne much this year Notch but he does look the business. Very much first choice now for Munster (or so it seems)

[Notch]

He looks the business around the field, but much, much more importantly he's progressed quickly in the scrum. He will still be inconsistent and at times exploited on bad days.

He has potential but based on what I've seen I wouldn't want to be relying on him coming off the bench in a full test. This is a perfect opportunity for him to get experience.

[Standulstermen]

The more I think about it the more I like the Ross selection. I expect Ross to hold his side so I am hoping to see kilcoyne have a real crack at Manu who isn't the best scrumager. If we get our set piece right then Jackson and co can have a base to build off. No point in throwing in a young, untested back line in there without being sure of your set piece. DOC and Tuohy is some grunt in the 2nd row too.

[rodders]

I think Ross is a guy who needs regular games too. He's not the fittest guy around naturaly and as a few have pointed out he seemed to struggle late on against the boks.

I tell you what I don't care what anyones says about Bent's selection, I'm delighted he's come on board and that we have a few options now at TH. If we could keep Fitzpatrick fit now that would be a big step forward from last year in a key position.

[yappysnap]

Hey guys,

Looks like i'm going to be watching this game on the weekend with some mates, which Irish player should I be looking out for? And who can I name drop to sound like I know loads about the team...

Cheers

[rodders]

Hey guys,

Looks like i'm going to be watching this game on the weekend with some mates, which Irish player should I be looking out for? And who can I name drop to sound like I know loads about the team...

Cheers

Luke Marshall at 12 and Craig Gilroy are two of the most exciting young backs in the country, Gilroy in particular is putting real pressure on Trimble and Bowe at Ulster.

Paddy Jackson at 10 is a great prospect...not sure how he'll go alongside Murray though.

Paul Marshall will inject pace from the bench at 9, as will simon Zebo in the back 3.

Muldoon is a very good player at 7. Very underrated Connacht stalwart.

O'Callaghan and Touhy is a new lock partnership and worth a watch. Both have been in very good form.

A lot of new combinations here so don't be surprised if things don't click but fingers crossed we'll see some decent rugby......

[yappysnap]

Cheers for that, I looked at the team and barely recognised any of those players!

[rapidsnowman]

So what you're saying rodders is keep an eye on anyone from Ulster?

Probably a good idea 'cos you might not see it again for some time!

[rodders]

Yeah well there's a lot of injuries right now but Ross, O'Callaghan, Heaslip, Murray, Healy, Cronin, McFadden, Ryan and Sexton would be all regulars in the senior squad and the likes of Zebo, Touhy, Muldoon, Cave and Henry on the fringes.

Relative newbies would be the likes of Jackson, Marshall * 2, Gilroy, Henderson (watch out for him too!) etc.

Its a mix of experienced guys and young up and coming players so on paper its exciting but we'll see how it goes....

[rodders]

So what you're saying rodders is keep an eye on anyone from Ulster?

Probably a good idea 'cos you might not see it again for some time!

Well yeah sure everyone in the Leinster and Munster squads are on 50+ caps, so most of the newbies are our guys!

[HERSH]

I think its wrong that this isn't a capped international, therefore I don't think it should be in the International section on 606v2.

[rapidsnowman]

Is it a game between two countries? YES

Does that make it international as opposed to national? YES

Is it a club game? NO

[HERSH]

No caps = non international in my books.

[Standulstermen]

If you are looking for a young guy who has a chance of becoming involved regularly then Luke Marshall or Iain Henderson.

If Jackson has a stormer the best he can hope for is to be sextons backup. Gilroy something similar and kilcoyne too. Marshall actually has a shot if he goes well of replacing D'arcy although that would mean more pressure on ulster regarding paddy Wallace. Henderson has already starred at HEC level at 20 and has a real shot of getting in our backrow given his physicality.

[rodders]

I think its wrong that this isn't a capped international, therefore I don't think it should be in the International section on 606v2.

I agree Hersh. Mods can we move this one to the non-capped international section please?

[HERSH]

or how about the general rugby board?

[clivemcl]

in·ter·na·tion·al
   [in-ter-nash-uh-nl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
between or among nations; involving two or more nations: international trade.
2.
of or pertaining to two or more nations or their citizens: a matter of international concern.
3.
pertaining to the relations between nations: international law.


I think the word definition still applies HERSH

[HERSH]

No Caps!

[Warthog]

No Caps!

Why do you even care you sad little person? Don't watch it if you don't want to.

[HERSH]

I won't, but it does seem very disrespectful towards Fiji, is it a way of avoiding IRB Ranking points if Ireland lose?

for Fiji.

[rodders]

Noting the bulk of the Fiji midfield against England last week, he added: “You look forward to meeting traffic, you want the physical confrontation. Hopefully if the opponent is bigger, I’ll be able to get around him and make a few breaks. It helps to have a wee bit of bulk. England and Wales go for the straight hit-up option, we like to go a bit wider and play the second five-eighth option like NZ, so that probably suits smaller players like myself.”

Jackson spoke of his own increased confidence in the Irish environment after first being involved almost a year ago and after a run of games for a winning Ulster unit. From playing possibly the Test arena’s most structured side to one who flourishes more than anyone when it becomes loose, Jackson echoed Heaslip’s sentiments when commenting: “We want to keep it structured against Fiji, who play off an unstructured game. Ulster and Ireland are two completely different teams who play two completely different ways so we’re sticking to our gameplan and we’ll see how it goes on Saturday.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1116/1224326665633.html?via=mr

Interesting comments from Luke Marshall in the IT. It might shed some light in the Irish managements general gameplan.....

Now for me the obvious flaws here are that if you don't pick ball carriers to get you on the front foot and suck in defenders, then you won't create overlaps and mismatches..and if you pick a scrumhalf who doesn't produce quick ball... and you don't have pace in midfield.... or a traditional openside to support the ball carrier..... how in bejeebus do the Irish coaches think we are going to play an effective attacking wide game??

Like we aren't going to be opening many good teams of first phase by going wide. It really is very worrying how tactically naive our coaching team is.

Taking Fiji on in the set piece, as we did SA is the right all but there needs to be some plan with the ball...we aren't going to run around the Fijians ...with D'arcy/BOD (or Earls) or Marshall/Cave and if thats the ideas they are putting into the players heads then they are deluded.

[Pot Hale]

No Caps!

IT'S AN INTERNATIONAL GAME BETWEEN IRELAND AND FIJI.

HAPPY?

[HERSH]

What’s with the Capitals?

[Rory_Gallagher]

I am really looking forward to this game actually, just to see how Marshall, Hendy, Gilroy and Jackson get on. 4 young Ulster players with a good chance to play for Ireland in the future. I think of the 4, Jackson will have his work cut out for him the most. Sexton, Madigan and Hanrahan will be his competition over the years. You have to say we have some seriously talented 10s coming through.

[rodders]

Am I the only one here who thinks we will lose this one?

[MrsP]

No Caps!

IT'S AN INTERNATIONAL GAME BETWEEN IRELAND AND FIJI.

HAPPY?

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

How about picking a fairly experiemental side and beating Fiji? They are pretty sh1te.

[Notch]

Noting the bulk of the Fiji midfield against England last week, he added: “You look forward to meeting traffic, you want the physical confrontation. Hopefully if the opponent is bigger, I’ll be able to get around him and make a few breaks. It helps to have a wee bit of bulk. England and Wales go for the straight hit-up option, we like to go a bit wider and play the second five-eighth option like NZ, so that probably suits smaller players like myself.”

Jackson spoke of his own increased confidence in the Irish environment after first being involved almost a year ago and after a run of games for a winning Ulster unit. From playing possibly the Test arena’s most structured side to one who flourishes more than anyone when it becomes loose, Jackson echoed Heaslip’s sentiments when commenting: “We want to keep it structured against Fiji, who play off an unstructured game. Ulster and Ireland are two completely different teams who play two completely different ways so we’re sticking to our gameplan and we’ll see how it goes on Saturday.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1116/1224326665633.html?via=mr

Interesting comments from Luke Marshall in the IT. It might shed some light in the Irish managements general gameplan.....

Now for me the obvious flaws here are that if you don't pick ball carriers to get you on the front foot and suck in defenders, then you won't create overlaps and mismatches..and if you pick a scrumhalf who doesn't produce quick ball... and you don't have pace in midfield.... or a traditional openside to support the ball carrier..... how in bejeebus do the Irish coaches think we are going to play an effective attacking wide game??

Like we aren't going to be opening many good teams of first phase by going wide. It really is very worrying how tactically naive our coaching team is.

Taking Fiji on in the set piece, as we did SA is the right all but there needs to be some plan with the ball...we aren't going to run around the Fijians ...with D'arcy/BOD (or Earls) or Marshall/Cave and if thats the ideas they are putting into the players heads then they are deluded.

It's very discouraging in many ways. Because if we've been trying to play with a second playmaker- if thats what they think they are doing- it clearly hasn't been working! Considering our 12 carries more often than not and a playmaking 12 is only as good as the support runners giving him options.

It kind of reinforces my suspicions about how confused our coaches are about our gameplan in attack. Playing an effective wide game isn't just about flinging the ball wide and hoping. It takes a lot of attention to detail and structure, you need to be able to challenge the gain line and recycle the ball quickly, and it takes the forwards to slip seamlessly into the backline. And I don't see anyone running good support lines and our pack is always all very tight around the ruck.

[asoreleftshoulder]

It's great to see such an abundance of talent coming through from Ulster.For so many years the team was 2/3rds Munster 1/3rd Leinster and the odd Ulster player on the bench or starting if there was an injury.

Hopefully the team will be much more balanced from now on and in 5 or 10 years time we'll be welcoming the day when Connacht have a huge batch of youngsters getting their start.

[HERSH]

Am I the only one here who thinks we will lose this one?

Well someone at the IRFU felt the same Rodders hence why its a non capped affair.

[GunsGerms]

Its impossible to predict who will win this one. I doubt the fijians will be overly pumped up over this match and Ireland have a bit of a scratch team so who knows.

[Notch]

Ireland will win. Fiji are good at everything we aren't, but we're good at everything they aren't. They will have the leakier of the two defences and that should prove decisive.

Fiji with three weeks in camp like Ireland have had and access to all of their best players could win this, but they are at a perpetual disadvantage.

[HERSH]

plus they can't kick at goal

[clivemcl]

Am I the only one here who thinks we will lose this one?

Well someone at the IRFU felt the same Rodders hence why its a non capped affair.

HERSH, you would enjoy life better if you tried to be likeable. But meh, its up to you.

For what its worth, you can argue that its not a *Test* international, but you can't argue that its not INTERNATIONAL. Ireland are a NATION, Fiji are a separate NATION. 'inter' is from Latin, its a prefix, 'inter-' means amid, among, between, mutually, reciprocally, together, within.

So stop saying its not an international. Feel free to rant about it being non-capped because that is actually logical and truthful.

For what its worth Ireland had a stupid contract with Aviva, but they also want to encourage interest in rugby all around the Island, and most importantly, Fiji said 'OK THATS FINE'.

The suggestion that we were scared of losing is the most out and out WUM I've ever heard on here, because despite your apparent silliness on here at times, we can still see that you arn't actually THAT dumb that you would consider Ireland scared of losing this fixture.

WUM

[GunsGerms]

Fiji have never beaten Ireland.

[Notch]

Clive, ffs.

If you were a trout you'd jump into the net wouldn't you? Practically gut and cook yourself too. Repeat after me; don't. Feed. The. Trolls!

[Sin é]

Am I the only one here who thinks we will lose this one?

Well, we all know who to blame if we do

[rodders]

Am I the only one here who thinks we will lose this one?

Well, we all know who to blame if we do

Well Paddy Wallace and Tom Court aren't playing so not really, no.....

[HERSH]

Please try and respect the opposition goal kicker this week too.

Enjoy the game

[bedfordwelsh]

I am sure its somewhere in the previous posts but why isn't this being classed as a capped test match?

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