Scotland disrespect their opposition...Gee wiz!

Title says it all really. De Luca is talking up the wooden spooners, saying they can beat South Africa and that they should have beaten England & Argentina in the world cup. Two sides that were overall better than them in the world cup.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20332374

Upon analysis of the article I have applied a certain Scottish posters hypothesis. After reading the comments I have concluded that the Scottish are showing great disrespect to past and future opponents.

Over to you.

And good luck against the Springboks on saturday.
(ASBO).

I hope this is meant to be satyrical, if not your making a great fool of yourslef!!!

[Feet up]

Ah yes, I forgot we are not allowed to believe we can win games. Silly me.

The favourites were not allowed to believe they could win on saturday either.

thebluesmancometh wrote:I hope this is meant to be satyrical, if not your making a great fool of yourslef!!!

What?

De Luca's right and wrong. We should have beaten Argentina & England given where we were in those matches come 60 minutes.

But, man-for-man and comparing squads and squad histories ... no, we shouldn't. Sco v Arg was 50/50 going into it to be honest. England had an edge, but we did well to stay with them.

Kind of ironic for knock-on Nick to be talking about it ... we lost them both because of choke factor.

SA is also 50/50. Also known as which team will choke more..? Or will finally this fixture be won by some fantastic , beautiful , inspired play?

some WUMmery?

Those RWC games, going into the closing stages they were in a position to win those games. Considering their position, they should have won those games but didn't. So I think De Luca's comments are justified.

I see nothing wrong with what he said.

He feels they can win, I would be surprised if he didn't.

Maybe the Argentina and England part was a bit was phrased a bit badly. He should have said could have won, not should have.

The Springboks beleive they can beat Scotland, so I guess it is even then.

Test rugby is a contest of small margins, South Africa has lost matches this year that could have been won but for poor goal kicking.

It happened against Scotland 2 yesr ago, we only hit 4/7 kicks, they hit 7/7 kicks.

It isn't always the more deserved team that wins matches, mistakes cost points, and SA has made many of those in the last two years.

List of games lost by SA in the past 2 years and how different it could be.

SA vs Scotland 2010 Score 17-21
Scotland no tres but kicks 7/7
SA one try but kicks 4/7

SA vs Australia 2011 Score 9-14
SA score no tries but spill a number of opportunities close to the line.

SA vs Australia 2011 Score 8-9
No need to go into details

SA vs England 2012 Score 14-14
Our kicking woes continue with 3/6 kicks for the match, england not much better with 3/5

SA vs Argentina 2012 Score 16-16
Our kicking woes doesn't stop 4/8

So sometimes one kick can make a difference, and hopefully with Lambie at 10 now, at least we will sort out one aspect of our point scoring.

Was that mostly Pienaar kicking Biltong ?

Hes been in Ireland too long, catching the 'playing better for club than country' curse

No munkian, Morne Steyn.

He has been woeful.

Please let's not mention that EngvSco game it was terrible! In hindsight I don't think anyone won!

Why are Sco v Eng matches always so terrible?

Pikachu got out of bed the wrong side yesterday.

He'll be knocking Balamory next.

This article IMO was started to try and stir something up that isn't there. I think we should have beaten England & Argentina in the RWC and I think we should have beaten England in the 6N, Dan Parks made a big mistake but lets not go digging up that again.

Onto this weekend.

Beating South Africa. Sure they are a good few places above us in the IRB world rankings. But from my Memory I have to say they have never looked weaker. They are missing : The Beast, Bismark, Schalk Burger, Bakies Botha, Piere Spies, Brussow, Habana, Steyne and in contrast I can't think of a stronger looking Scotland side in about 10 years.

There is something I think is worth saying.

There is no such thing as disrespecting another team by players.

Unless of course you make a wild outlandish statement and are a real authentic arrogant wise crack.

To say you are going to beat a team, or sayng you feel confident about beating another team is nothing wrong with.

Most of the time I am confident we can beat a team, some times I am confident we WILL beat a team, and other times I think we MIGHT beat a team, no matter whether it is the all BLacks, the Aussies, the English, Welsh or whomever.

So these articles or threads saying a player is disrespecting other teams is in fact a load of crock.

Why can they not say they are confident?

If you can't beleive you can beat an opponent, you have already lost.

Remember, sport is 80% mental, 10% talent, and 10% preparation.

So what's the difference between saying that you (Scotland) should have beaten England and Argentina (when you didn't) to Wales saying that they could have beaten Australia in the summer (which we didn't). All we heard was abuse about only the scoreboard mattering, about 'shoulda, woulda, coulda', 'ifs and buts',about talking a good game but not following through!

A lot of double standards here. Either all fans/teams are allowed to say they should have won, when they didn't, or none of us should. It should not just apply to Wales.

Biltong wrote:There is something I think is worth saying.

There is no such thing as disrespecting another team by players.

Unless of course you make a wild outlandish statement and are a real authentic arrogant wise crack.

To say you are going to beat a team, or sayng you feel confident about beating another team is nothing wrong with.

Most of the time I am confident we can beat a team, some times I am confident we WILL beat a team, and other times I think we MIGHT beat a team, no matter whether it is the all BLacks, the Aussies, the English, Welsh or whomever.

So these articles or threads saying a player is disrespecting other teams is in fact a load of crock.

Why can they not say they are confident?

If you can't beleive you can beat an opponent, you have already lost.

Remember, sport is 80% mental, 10% talent, and 10% preparation.

Spot on.

BB

I think its not about disrespect... rather that we know how much of a storm in a teacup can be made out of the smallest little things and even a hint of firing up opposition can change the course of a match even before its begun.

One of rugby's most dangerous things is a fired up bok pack... in fact I think i'd be more worried about that then any team inc. the French or the ABs.

For lesser rugby nations the last thing they want to do is make the everest type climb that is Saturday's match even more difficult... although I do agree with what you are saying.

Agree FA, hence my rant about the fact that it isn't disrespect, but you are right, the "enhanced" or "marketed" version by way of a headline makes it a big thing.

Griff wrote:So what's the difference between saying that you (Scotland) should have beaten England and Argentina (when you didn't) to Wales saying that they could have beaten Australia in the summer (which we didn't). All we heard was abuse about only the scoreboard mattering, about 'shoulda, woulda, coulda', 'ifs and buts',about talking a good game but not following through!

A lot of double standards here. Either all fans/teams are allowed to say they should have won, when they didn't, or none of us should. It should not just apply to Wales.

You can't tar every poster with this brush. Some people on here just love getting a bite from the Welsh in terms of WUMing.

I have no problem with teams thinking they can beat other teams. If you had checked the Scottish pre match discussions for the NZ game I think you will find the consensus was we have no chance but we'll be happy to have scored some tries and looked competative. Apart from an insane 10 minutes when NZ scored 4 tries I would say we achieved our collective aim.

If the Welsh fans think their team can beat the best in the world more power to you!. But don't go tarring us with that brush griff. That's not fair.

Morgannwg wrote:The favourites were not allowed to believe they could win on saturday either.

thebluesmancometh wrote:I hope this is meant to be satyrical, if not your making a great fool of yourslef!!!

What?

Yeah Bluesman, stop it with the fake bad no-speak-a-de-English routine.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Griff wrote:So what's the difference between saying that you (Scotland) should have beaten England and Argentina (when you didn't) to Wales saying that they could have beaten Australia in the summer (which we didn't). All we heard was abuse about only the scoreboard mattering, about 'shoulda, woulda, coulda', 'ifs and buts',about talking a good game but not following through!

A lot of double standards here. Either all fans/teams are allowed to say they should have won, when they didn't, or none of us should. It should not just apply to Wales.

You can't tar every poster with this brush. Some people on here just love getting a bite from the Welsh in terms of WUMing.

I have no problem with teams thinking they can beat other teams. If you had checked the Scottish pre match discussions for the NZ game I think you will find the consensus was we have no chance but we'll be happy to have scored some tries and looked competative. Apart from an insane 10 minutes when NZ scored 4 tries I would say we achieved our collective aim.

If the Welsh fans think their team can beat the best in the world more power to you!. But don't go tarring us with that brush griff. That's not fair.

Not tarring all radge, just making the point that on this message board only (doesn't happen in real life, thank god) my experience is that if wales lose by a few points and we say we should/could have won then we are apparently disrespectful, unrealistic, overhyped, etc., etc. Anyone else does it and it seems to be viewed in a different way. That too is not fair.

How is De Luca disrespecting South Africa? If anything he is respecting South Africa too much. I felt Scotland gave New Zealand too much respect and are again doing it.

I don't think the Scots are arrogant enough. They were beaten before getting on the pitch vs New Zealand. They were pleased with their performance vs New Zealand - instead they should be angry.Angry and disappointed. Ready to unleash hell on South Africa.

For me Scotland have a problem with belief. It's why they lost to England x 2 and Argentina because they didn't have that mental edge.

When it rains though......the hearts soar and Scotland become a different beast entirely. Their confidences goes through the roof and they beat South Africa and Australia this way.

Griff wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Griff wrote:So what's the difference between saying that you (Scotland) should have beaten England and Argentina (when you didn't) to Wales saying that they could have beaten Australia in the summer (which we didn't). All we heard was abuse about only the scoreboard mattering, about 'shoulda, woulda, coulda', 'ifs and buts',about talking a good game but not following through!

A lot of double standards here. Either all fans/teams are allowed to say they should have won, when they didn't, or none of us should. It should not just apply to Wales.

You can't tar every poster with this brush. Some people on here just love getting a bite from the Welsh in terms of WUMing.

I have no problem with teams thinking they can beat other teams. If you had checked the Scottish pre match discussions for the NZ game I think you will find the consensus was we have no chance but we'll be happy to have scored some tries and looked competative. Apart from an insane 10 minutes when NZ scored 4 tries I would say we achieved our collective aim.

If the Welsh fans think their team can beat the best in the world more power to you!. But don't go tarring us with that brush griff. That's not fair.

Not tarring all radge, just making the point that on this message board only (doesn't happen in real life, thank god) my experience is that if wales lose by a few points and we say we should/could have won then we are apparently disrespectful, unrealistic, overhyped, etc., etc. Anyone else does it and it seems to be viewed in a different way. That too is not fair.

The thing is Griff, and I'm not saying it's right, but a fair few English and Welsh posters on here in particular either love WUMing or pretend to love WUMing each other about their national team's escapades.

It's like waving a red rag at a bull in some of these posts. Hence when a Welsh person who posts up a comment about a Welsh player commenting about an upcoming game with confidence or expectation, inevitably some English posters will go onto that post to get a rise...

Some of the posters here don't help matters by either :

A) Rising to the bait
B) Respond by posting something inflametory about the orther team

... and the cylce continues.

Well this WUM attempt was as inconspicuous as a tarantula on a wedding cake. No need to rise to it Scots. Hold the line.

Good thing NDL didnt accuse the boks of being 'pretty'.

ALRIGHT!! We're WUMing! doo-doo doo-doo doo-doo.. I hope you like 'a WUMing too!

We're WUMing we're WUMing we're WUMing we're WUMing...

KickAndChase wrote:De Luca's right and wrong. We should have beaten Argentina & England given where we were in those matches come 60 minutes.

But, man-for-man and comparing squads and squad histories ... no, we shouldn't. Sco v Arg was 50/50 going into it to be honest. England had an edge, but we did well to stay with them.

Kind of ironic for knock-on Nick to be talking about it ... we lost them both because of choke factor.

SA is also 50/50. Also known as which team will choke more..? Or will finally this fixture be won by some fantastic , beautiful , inspired play?

Only in the same way Australia shouldve beaten scotland this summer, scotland shouldve beaten england in the 6 nations, England shouldve drawn with Wales, Wales shouldve beaten South Africa in the world cup, Samoa shouldve beaten Wales, Georgria shouldve beaten Scotland etc etc

On their day Scotland can beat anyone. And to be fair this does include South Africa who seem to struggle against the Scots in the same way Aus do against England ( ie beat them more often than not but get remebered for the times they lose)

Scotland have a right to be up for this one even if they are pretty mediocre. De Luca is indulging in some historical revisionism/wishful thinking though.

It is funny that the worse the weather the better the handling in comparsion by the scots.

Scots have every right to feel confident, as pointed out they more or less have their full team against a weakened team. They did well for 60mins in total in the game and to be fair the boks I don't think are allowed to score a try every 10 mins let alone a couple.

I think the Sa rule is 10kicks for one run

I heard that WUMing was a thing of the past...

Nah its just practiced by things from the past

fa0019 wrote:BB

I think its not about disrespect... rather that we know how much of a storm in a teacup can be made out of the smallest little things and even a hint of firing up opposition can change the course of a match even before its begun.

One of rugby's most dangerous things is a fired up bok pack... in fact I think i'd be more worried about that then any team inc. the French or the ABs.

For lesser rugby nations the last thing they want to do is make the everest type climb that is Saturday's match even more difficult... although I do agree with what you are saying.

How dare you disrespect NZ. Nobody can live with our team on fire!

beshocked wrote:When it rains though......the hearts soar and Scotland become a different beast entirely. Their confidences goes through the roof and they beat South Africa and Australia this way.

On occasion, not all the time. But yes, we do struggle in their conditions.

Biltong wrote:There is something I think is worth saying.

There is no such thing as disrespecting another team by players.

Unless of course you make a wild outlandish statement and are a real authentic arrogant wise crack.

To say you are going to beat a team, or sayng you feel confident about beating another team is nothing wrong with.

Most of the time I am confident we can beat a team, some times I am confident we WILL beat a team, and other times I think we MIGHT beat a team, no matter whether it is the all BLacks, the Aussies, the English, Welsh or whomever.

So these articles or threads saying a player is disrespecting other teams is in fact a load of crock.

Why can they not say they are confident?

If you can't beleive you can beat an opponent, you have already lost.

Remember, sport is 80% mental, 10% talent, and 10% preparation.

Blimey Bitong.

That's quite a mix!

I hadn't realised that the Boks were that mental.

Unfortunately the rain isn't forecast until Monday. A balmy temperature of 8 degrees for Saturday. I should change my picks but I'm standing firm.

BBC says rain by 4pm, so a greasy ending perhaps?

(As the bishop said to the netball team...)

Scotland would prefer a premature precipitation and embarrassed faces on the Boks at the end.

Yes, this thread is 80% mental, and modesty forbids I mention the other 20%.

...And I hope dis WUM is gonna last.

We're WUMing We're WUMing We're WUMing We're WUMing We're WUMing We're WUMing....

beshocked wrote:How is De Luca disrespecting South Africa? If anything he is respecting South Africa too much. I felt Scotland gave New Zealand too much respect and are again doing it.

I don't think the Scots are arrogant enough. They were beaten before getting on the pitch vs New Zealand. They were pleased with their performance vs New Zealand - instead they should be angry.Angry and disappointed. Ready to unleash hell on South Africa.

For me Scotland have a problem with belief. It's why they lost to England x 2 and Argentina because they didn't have that mental edge.

When it rains though......the hearts soar and Scotland become a different beast entirely. Their confidences goes through the roof and they beat South Africa and Australia this way.

Dear god Beshocked. Trust you to need explaining to a second time!

I said we applied a certain hypothesis, (you can find it here stated by a Scottish poster: https://www.606v2.com/t37125-does-argentina-prove-how-biased-the-ai-s-are-to-the-sh-teams). Intrestingly Griff has mentioned another one in this thread, the anti-wales hypothesis.

Over to the game, so this is dubbed as a weak SA team? In the pack you have Strauss, Du Plessis, Etzebeth, Alberts, Louw and Vermeulen but they do miss the Beast. At 9 the game's controller is Pienaar who had an outstanding game against Ireland. Given the form dip of Genia in the RC you could say Ruan's form has him as one of the best in world rugby right now along with All Black Smith. In the backs SA look fairly weak in the midfield. Lambie didn't hit his strides against Ireland. JDV hasn't added a lot to the team since the RC. Scotland however finally have a backline, they just need some more time together and hope nobody gets injured. Hogg at 15 is a constant threat. Lamont is solid and Visser is just a finisher (for now). I see the advantage going to Habana and Hougaard here.

Scotland are very strong up front and have a more consistent kicker. If they play well and Ruan/Pat have an off day with the boot it's game on. SA are slight favourites the way I see it.

Only "slight favourites"? South Africa are far far better than that.

Are you, by some chance, just possibly... being... a wee bit... disrespectful?

That's really disappointing.