Scotland v Tonga: build up, banter and match day thread

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Tonga
Pittodrie, Aberdeen
Saturday 24 November 2012
KO:3pm

Last matches:

10 November - Italy 28 - 23 Tonga
17 November - Scotland 10 - 21 South Africa

Previous head to heads:

1974
Scotland XV 44-8 Tonga
28 September 1974, Murrayfield

1995
Scotland 41-5 Tonga
30 May 1995, Pretoria (RWC)

2001
Scotland 43-20 Tonga
10 November 2001, Murrayfield

2009
Scotland 'A' 38-7 Tonga
20 November 2009, Netherdale

Injuries:

Gray following concussion protocol

Big Al still tending to his calf strain

No other injuries announced

Latest provisional IRB World Rankings - top 12

1 New Zealand 92.91
2 South Africa 86.05
3 Australia 85.94
4 France 84.99
5 England 81.96
6 Argentina 79.89
7 Ireland 79.04
8 Wales 78.95
9 Samoa 78.79
10 Scotland 77.42
11 Italy 76.61
12 Tonga 74.51

Teams:
SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors)
14 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors)
13 Max Evans (Castres)
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby)
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby)

10 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby)
9 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors)

1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors)
2 Scott Lawson (London Irish)
3 Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors)
4 Richie Gray (Sale Sharks)
5 Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors)
6 Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan)
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens) (c)
8 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby)

Substitutes:

16 Dougie Hall (Glasgow Warriors)
17 Kyle Traynor (Bristol Rugby)
18 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby)

19 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby)
20 John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors)
21 Rory Lawson (Newcastle Falcons)
22 Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby)
23 Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby)



TONGA

Vungakoto Lilo (Tarbes Pyrenees)

Fetu'u Vainikolo (Connacht)

Sukanaivalu Hufanga (Newcastle Falcons)

Sione Piukala (Perpignan)

Will Helu (Fasi Ma'ufanga)

Fangatapu Apikotoa (Amatori)

Taniela Moa (Pau)

Viliami Ma'afu (unattached);

Alisona Taumalolo (Perpignan)

Elvis Taione (Western Force)

Halani Aulika (London Irish)

Joe Tu'ineau (Aix en Provence)

Tukulua Lokotui (Wellington)

Hale T-Pole (Northland)

Nili Latu (captain, NEC)


Substitutes:


Ilaisa Ma'asi (Counties Manukau)

Tevita Mailau (Mont De Marsan)

Kamaliele Sakalia (Marist Tonga)

Sitiveni Mafi (Leicester)

Sione Timani (Llanelli)

Viliame 'longi (Marist Longoteme)

Eddie Paea (Eastern Suburbs)

Alipate Fatafehi (Lyon)

[Imperialbigdave]

So. Back to tonga.

we should be winning this by 30 points?

Not really. Tonga have beaten france in the last twelve months and gave italy a fright a fortnight ago. They may slip under the radar, but are not to be taken lightly. And anyway, when was the last time we beat a team by >30 points? Canada 2008 unless im mistaken.

[Taylorman]

"Greig Laidlaw and Ruaridh Jackson have both been criticised for kicking away possession. What was wrong, in both cases, was not the idea, but its execution. Laidlaw’s kick wasn’t high enough to let the chasers compete for the ball, and Jackson’s chip was just too long. Even so, a more fortunate bounce might have resulted in the try being scored. Anything can happen when the ball lands in the in-goal area. "

Was that the number 22 near the end? If so how anyone can say that was tactically correct is beyond me.

When is the last time someone has chipped into the goal area from 10-15 yards in front and scored a try from it...NONE that I can recall.

Sure it was too far, but if it had have been accurate theres no guarantee or even likelihood of a Scot getting to it before a Bok. terrible decision.

Problem for Scotland and its been repeated here that the way to beat them is to give them the ball. They continue to dominate possession and territory- like the last half hour against the Boks- yet get nowhere.

The lineout try was straight out of the text book and a master stroke- we got one identical in the World cup final last year. So planned moves do work. Someone needs to get in there and sort that attack out- straighter, harder, and variations of angles and missed passes and theyre just not hitting the advantage line the way they should.

Its a pity because with all that ball all they need is 2 or 3 key moments and those L's start turning into W's. If you look at last years key stats in the 6N you would hardly believe where they positioned on the table they had that much ball.

[123skelm]

Taylorman,

I understand your comments regarding the kicks, however, lets be honest we were going nowhere and that is the problem of our back play when a lot of the times we get slow ball so the defense of the opp is in place and we probably had too many phases.

Sometimes you have to try something different but also should be done with a call to your team mates what is going to happen so idea maybe good but execution fails because of communication. Its the 10 that has to make the call and the try against NZ shows that a kick can be worthwhile.

As I posted the other day I think Weir will be very hungry when he gets back and honestly could make a big impact this yearplus the new guy on the block.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Taylorman is spot on - the chances of the dink over the top coming off are slim, and almost certain to turn possession over to the opposition. I couldn't see any reason in either instance why the ball could not be moved thru the hands, either out wide, or with the blindside winger on a loop and straightening or the openside winger cutting in at an angle - lots of ways of testing the Bok defence while keeping hold of the ball with a view to being in an even better scoring position for the next phase. It's not rocket science

[123skelm]

AsLong,

It may not be Rocket Science but unfortunately for us it seems to be, Taylorman yes! has a point but that does not change the coaching or is it the belief on the PlAYERS WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO IMPROVE

[TJ1]

The dink over the top can be a great tactic - tries scoored off it over the weekend - it also helps keep blitz defences honest

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

The dink over the top can be a great tactic - tries scoored off it over the weekend - it also helps keep blitz defences honest

It can, TJ, but for a team that needs either to score with certainty or retain possession, it's a low percentage option - poor selection, wrong time of game imo

[123skelm]

AsLong,

You are correct but the attributes you want us to have before the chance kick or whatever we do not have? Catch 22 me thinks!

[George Carlin]

Just seen the stats from the South Africa game (courtesy of Opta, via BBC website), some of which are staggering:

1. Possession: Scotland: 63% South Africa: 37%

2. Territory: Scotland: 67% South Africa: 33%

3. Scrums won (lost): Scotland: 8 (1) South Africa: 4 (3)

4. Line-outs won (lost): Scotland:13 (2) South Africa: 12 (0)

5. Pens conceded: Scotland: 11 South Africa: 14

6. Turnovers conceded: Scotland: 10 South Africa: 9

7. Rucks won: Scotland: 97/103 South Africa: 49/52

8. Possession kicked: Scotland: 28 South Africa: 33

9. Tackles made (missed): Scotland: 64 (10) South Africa: 138 (7)

10. Offloads: 9 Scotland: South Africa: 3

11. Line breaks: Scotland: 1 South Africa: 2

Initial conclusions:

1. We are not losing games because of our forward pack.

2. Ford's throwing couldn't have been that bad.

3. Saffer defence really was awesome.

4. Our scrum was good.

5. We should have kicked for goal far more.

Am actually much more confident seeing that. And much more p!ssed off at our lack of cutting edge.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Just seen the stats from the South Africa game (courtesy of Opta, via BBC website), some of which are staggering:

1. Possession: Scotland: 63% South Africa: 37%

2. Territory: Scotland: 67% South Africa: 33%

3. Scrums won (lost): Scotland: 8 (1) South Africa: 4 (3)

4. Line-outs won (lost): Scotland:13 (2) South Africa: 12 (0)

5. Pens conceded: Scotland: 11 South Africa: 14

6. Turnovers conceded: Scotland: 10 South Africa: 9

7. Rucks won: Scotland: 97/103 South Africa: 49/52

8. Possession kicked: Scotland: 28 South Africa: 33

9. Tackles made (missed): Scotland: 64 (10) South Africa: 138 (7)

10. Offloads: 9 Scotland: South Africa: 3

11. Line breaks: Scotland: 1 South Africa: 2

Initial conclusions:

1. We are not losing games because of our forward pack.

2. Ford's throwing couldn't have been that bad.

3. Saffer defence really was awesome.

4. Our scrum was good.

5. We should have kicked for goal far more.

Am actually much more confident seeing that. And much more p!ssed off at our lack of cutting edge.

The Bokke defence effectively shut down our Midfield. Jean De Villiers was awesome.

[MacKnocked-on]

'2. Ford's throwing couldn't have been that bad.'
It's the fact that the lost lineouts seem to be on the opposition line most of the time that frustrates. Also some of the lineouts we do win are scrappy to say the least.

[funnyExiledScot]

The tactic of chipping the ball through was poorly deployed and poorly executed. It's a tactic that requires an element of surprise, and for your own players to read it whilst the opposition are unprepared. The best exponent of it in recent timws for scotland was dan parka. Sadly both laidlaw and ndl tried it at the wrong time for scotland in each case, when the only beneficiary was kirchner. I don't criticise the idea, but it seemed to have been too big a part in the game plan, and the players were not reading the situation when deploying the tactix.

[MacKnocked-on]

The grubber kick is more generally difficult to defend than a chip over the top and as the ball is on or near the ground at all times should increase the odds of the attacking team beating the defenders to the touchdown. Remember Dan Parks putting Max Evans in for a try in Cardiff a couple of years ago with a great little grubber.

[tigertattie]

Regarding the stats, they can be looked at and looked at but they often miss things out.

Stats I would also point out:

Number of rucks Scotland won but were won slowly after a SA player took an age to move out the way - Who knows!

Number of tries that should not have been awarded - SA - 2 - One from truck and trailor, one from a hooker who was miles offside.

Stats are jsut stats.

We need to win games, not drool over the stats.

The thing that annoys me is our forwards are currently soft. Our clearing out at the ruck is poor. If a player (like pleanty SA were) are laying in the road and the ref is not pinging them, shoe them and they will soon move

[Pat_Mustard]

To be honest looking back, I think both SA tries were good. The first time the ref called back the maul for obstruction he made a mistake though and should have been consistent. But if you pause at 3:59 on the match clock, (http://www.rugbydump.com/2012/11/2869/scotland-vs-south-africa-november-2012-full-match) a maul is formed with Scots bound onto it, they only step away afterwards.

Law 17.4(f) "When players of the team who are not in possession of the ball in the maul voluntarily leave the maul such that there are no players of that team left in the maul, the maul may continue..."

It's only truck and trailer if the attacking team peel off the maul to start a new one with a man in front of the ball carrier, that's not what happened in this case, it was the same maul throughout. The same thing happens at 20:23 for the try that stood, despite a couple of SA players at the front of the maul being brought to deck, my understanding would be that it's still the same maul for the rest and it can continue. Anyone with superior knowledge feel free to correct me but that's what it looks like based on the word of the law.

As for the interception, Blair has the ball clear of the ruck by 45:36, the camera then zooms out and Strauss is still well behind the back foot.

Sorry to be pedantic but we definitely can't blame the ref for that one. I think we lost the game because we played with no intelligence whatsoever. Agree about the weak clearing out - I particularly noticed it from Hamilton when Kellock was penalised for holding on deep inside the SA 22, he just sort of slumped onto the defender competing for the ball. But the tactic of just continually picking and going was never going to get us anywhere against that opposition.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Team's up ....

http://www.scottishrugby.org/content/view/3254/2/


15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) 9 caps, 1 try, 5 points

14 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) 70 caps, 8 tries, 40 points
13 Max Evans (Castres) 31 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) 6 caps
11 Tim Visser (Edinburgh Rugby) 4 caps, 4 tries, 20 points

10 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby) 12 caps, 2 tries, 11 conversions, 17 penalties, 83 points
9 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) 2 caps, 1 try, 5 points

1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) 5 caps
2 Scott Lawson (London Irish) 35 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
3 Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors) 48 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
4 Richie Gray (Sale Sharks) 26 caps, 1 try, 5 points
5 Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors) 46 caps, 1 try, 5 points
6 Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) 29 caps, 1 try, 5 points
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens) CAPTAIN 51 caps, 4 tries, 20 points
8 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) 8 caps

Substitutes

16 Dougie Hall (Glasgow Warriors) 38 caps, 1 try, 5 points
17 Kyle Traynor (Bristol Rugby) 3 caps
18 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby) 16 caps, 1 try, 5 points
19 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) uncapped
20 John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors) 40 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
21 Rory Lawson (Newcastle Falcons) 30 caps
22 Tom Heathcote (Bath Rugby) uncapped
23 Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby) 37 caps, 1 try, 5 points

Can't help this is an oppertunity missed. Playing Max Evans at 13?

[Dorothy_Mantooth]

The end for Mike Blair?

[RDW]

Would be a real shame if Mike Blair's last effort in a Scotland shirt was to throw an interception - he's been one of Scotland's greatest ever scrum halfs IMO.

[RDW]

As for the team, well once again a few surprises in there! Ford being dropped completely, De Luca on the bench - a lot of people on here will be happy!

Ford decision is a strange one - I'm assuming he won't be playing for Edinburgh on Friday.

Really surprised to see Gray starting - miraculous recovery and I hope they aren't rushing him back. I suspect there's a chance he might pull out nearer the time.

Delighted to see Gilchrist in there - he's ready for a cap and Hamilton hasn't been great in the past two games.

[TJ1]

Pretty happy with the team bar Evans perhpas. Stroks in for his grunt.

On Ford I think a rest on the sidelines will do him some good. I want him back to his best for the 6N

[Pat_Mustard]

Not sure what to think of this, its an odd selection.

[RDW]

Can't think of any other player who has to be 'rested' as much as Ross Ford!

[RuggerRadge2611]

What's the crac with Evans at 13? He hasn't impressed me for a ling time. I would have rather capped Dunbar or Horne tbh.

Ford perhaps being rested? I still don't think he has been dropped. Even after a couple of dodgey lineouts he is by some distance our best hooker.

Hoping to see Grant Gilchrist and Tam Heathcoate get some game time.

[RDW]

My worry is it is a really close game and we don't get the see the likes of Gilchrist and Heathcoate

[RuggerRadge2611]

Can't think of any other player who has to be 'rested' as much as Ross Ford!

Ford had serious health problems a couple of seasons ago because of over training.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/rugby/i-ordered-scotland-star-ross-ford-1102679

SCOTLAND coach Andy Robinson has revealed hooker Ross Ford was ordered to take time out from the game after it was discovered his body was on the brink of shutdown.

Robinson admitted Ford would have been sidelined for a year if on-the-ball medics had not recognised he was threatened by a newly-discovered sporting condition known as "over-training syndrome".

Robinson said: "Ross was close to suffering from over-training syndrome, simply because he had played and trained almost constantly over the past few years.

"It is a new phenomenon and had he been allowed to keep on playing, he could have been sidelined for a year and missed the World Cup in New Zealand.

"The condition manifests itself by causing a raised heart rate at the start of training sessions. It would also mean that even gentle exercise would tire him much more quickly that normal.

"The decision to pull him back from rugby in the closing portion of the season was taken for scientific reasons.

"I have spoken to people from other sports and they concurred."

[EST]

Another strange selection from the Robinson Tombola....

[RDW]

Can't think of any other player who has to be 'rested' as much as Ross Ford!

Ford had serious health problems a couple of seasons ago because of over training.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/rugby/i-ordered-scotland-star-ross-ford-1102679

SCOTLAND coach Andy Robinson has revealed hooker Ross Ford was ordered to take time out from the game after it was discovered his body was on the brink of shutdown.

Robinson admitted Ford would have been sidelined for a year if on-the-ball medics had not recognised he was threatened by a newly-discovered sporting condition known as "over-training syndrome".

Robinson said: "Ross was close to suffering from over-training syndrome, simply because he had played and trained almost constantly over the past few years.

"It is a new phenomenon and had he been allowed to keep on playing, he could have been sidelined for a year and missed the World Cup in New Zealand.

"The condition manifests itself by causing a raised heart rate at the start of training sessions. It would also mean that even gentle exercise would tire him much more quickly that normal.

"The decision to pull him back from rugby in the closing portion of the season was taken for scientific reasons.

"I have spoken to people from other sports and they concurred."

That's kind of my point - there aren't many other pro rugby players with the same thing.

English players in the premiership played the week before the AIs, and guaranteed they'll probably be straight back the week after, yet they don't get burnout!

[Pat_Mustard]

I'm trying to figure out what it is I don't like about this selection. There's definitely something. I think it's mostly Evans at 13. He just does not pass! Also a bit of disappointment after convincing myself Horne/Seymour/McInally would be in there. Am keen to see Gilchrist and get an idea of what Heathcote is like.

[Pat_Mustard]

Tonga side: Vungakoto Lilo (Tarbes Pyrenees), Fetu'u Vainikolo (Connacht), Sukanaivalu Hufanga (Newcastle Falcons), Sione Piukala (Perpignan), Will Helu (Fasi Ma'ufanga), Fangatapu Apikotoa (Amatori), Taniela Moa (Pau); Alisona Taumalolo (Perpignan), Elvis Taione (Western Force), Halani Aulika (London Irish), Joe Tu'ineau (Aix en Provence), Tukulua Lokotui (Wellington), Hale T-Pole (Northland), Nili Latu (captain, NEC), Viliami Ma'afu (unattached)

Replacements : Ilaisa Ma'asi (Counties Manukau), Tevita Mailau (Mont De Marsan), Kamaliele Sakalia (Marist Tonga), Sitiveni Mafi (Leicester), Sione Timani (Llanelli), Viliame 'longi (Marist Longoteme), Eddie Paea (Eastern Suburbs), Alipate Fatafehi (Lyon).

[RDW]

Glad to see the big fecker from Northampton isn't at loosehead!

[Pat_Mustard]

Can't think of any other player who has to be 'rested' as much as Ross Ford!

Ford had serious health problems a couple of seasons ago because of over training.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/rugby/i-ordered-scotland-star-ross-ford-1102679

SCOTLAND coach Andy Robinson has revealed hooker Ross Ford was ordered to take time out from the game after it was discovered his body was on the brink of shutdown.

Robinson admitted Ford would have been sidelined for a year if on-the-ball medics had not recognised he was threatened by a newly-discovered sporting condition known as "over-training syndrome".

Robinson said: "Ross was close to suffering from over-training syndrome, simply because he had played and trained almost constantly over the past few years.

"It is a new phenomenon and had he been allowed to keep on playing, he could have been sidelined for a year and missed the World Cup in New Zealand.

"The condition manifests itself by causing a raised heart rate at the start of training sessions. It would also mean that even gentle exercise would tire him much more quickly that normal.

"The decision to pull him back from rugby in the closing portion of the season was taken for scientific reasons.

"I have spoken to people from other sports and they concurred."

I get that myself sometimes

[George Carlin]

Weirdish selection:

1. So we were getting excited about Horne and Seymour being capped for nothing, then? Hopefully that means they'll be released back to Glasgow to contribute to the stuffing of Leinster.

2. Max hasn't had that much game time for Castes really. De Luca needed to be benched though - sorry if others disagree.

3. Schlong un-be-liev-ably lucky to keep his place. Presumably he's there for his defence as much as anything else. Like his ridicuous 'tache for example.

4. I'd rather have Hall start than Lawson, really. At least Hall can throw his darts.

5. With Gray, there is very little leeway to deviate from a concussion protocol. It's actually quite prescriptive and if there's a doctor in the game I trust, it's James Robson. So I'm not going to worry about this unless there's good reason. Like Richie coming on to the field dressed as Emperor Napolean or a fish or something.

6. An absolute, unadulterated two foam fingers up to Rhubarb. Not sure where this leaves his Scotland career.

[EWT Spoons]

Mixed feelings on this selection.

Evans shouldn't be in the side in my opinion, as others have said, he doesn't pass and gets turned over pretty consistently. Gray should probably have been left out of this match to let him fully recover.

Would have been nice to see some of the younger players given a chance.

Hopefully Gilchrist and Heathcote will get a chance off the bench

[Scot Abroad]

Evans at 13 he doesn't pass, runs straight into his man and repeatedly gets turned over. Great piece of tactics there Robbo! The wingers are going to be starved for the ball and will have to come inside if they want to get their hands on it at all.

De Luca on the bench what is the point? Why have him there and not take the chance to introduce Seymour, Horne or Dunbar? Oh yes, I forgot about all the times De Luca has turned the game around and won it for Scotland, silly me!

Ford dropped didn't think Robbo would have the balls to do that. He needs to know he's not untouchable. But I'd rather have Hall starting. Thankfully MacArthur is returning to full fitness and should be in with a shout come the 6N

I actually though Lamont had a good game against SA, was solid in the tackle and with ball in hand. Not bothered about his selection at all. Visser better go looking for the ball this time. Expect Heathcote to get 20mins off the bench at least, depending on the score it might be earlier.

[funnyExiledScot]

Really odd selection. Surprised we don't have a proper openside, and very surprised to see evans come back in at 13.

Seymour is very unlucky in my view. He's been more convincing than lamont at glasgow and I felt he deserved a cap here. Lamont wasn't bad though against the boks. I can understand the ford dropping, and am pleased that lawson is the beneficiary and not hall, that bastion of mediocrity.

Blair harshly treated to be dropped altogether. I agree with pyrgos starting but would have had blair on the bench. The treatment of jackson is ridiculous. He really has fallen far in robinson's estimation. A while back he was being treated like a king, and being picked without any form. Now he's playing ok he isn't getting a sniff.

[Manky-Flanker]

I think this selection is an opportunity missed.

Horne, Dunbar and Seymour will be pleased to see teammate Pyrgos get his 2nd cap, but they'll be scratching their collectives heads about how on earth they're going to go about getting their first. All three had played well enough to be given a chance. But sadly no cigar

[RuggerRadge2611]

I agree, I would have given the youngsters a chance to impress against Fiji.

[Manky-Flanker]

Tonga

[funnyExiledScot]

I particularly agree on seymour, who is looking really sharp at the moment and cutting great lines. Once jackson was dropped I think the case for horne became less compelling, as his kicking wasn't needed and matt scott is rightly being given an extended run. I'm slightly surprised ndl is on the bench. I'd have thought he'd start or be dropped. Dunbar would have made more sense on the bench, on the same basis that robinson has given gilchrist a shot on the bench rather than hamilton.

[RDW]

To be fair, we've not got any 2nd rows left for the bench so might have to get an EDP!

Assuming PJP and Turnbell are still out...

[RuggerRadge2611]

Tonga

Them too..... sorry long day

[George Carlin]

Think we've said it all here - this match should have been an opportunity for at least one new young back to show what he could do. Now they won't and it's a waste. What other internationals does a team play in a year where the result genuinely doesn't matter two sh!ts, or two Poopies as this site is so fond of saying?

We know what Max does (looks very fast, runs around like a chook, knocks on and/or gets turned over) and what NDL does (insert any previous commentary about the large number of mistakes here), but not Seymour or Dunbar who are genuinely different players. Totally agree with Scot Abroad on this - there cannot be a justifiable rationale for this.

The rotation of 10s is incredibly worrying. So Heathcote gets a shot and will do fine (as I'm sure he will - everything points to competence at the very least). What then? Will that be enought to chance him in the 6N? He's had less training practice than anyone else in the XXIII with the whole squad (he wasn't even there for the first two matches against the Blackness/Bokke), so won't have any developed chemistry with the backline. What if he plays moderately well for Bath, which he shows every sign of doing. What then? Doesn't make him much more likely to start in the 6N. Smells of a Scott Johnson pet project.

I'd love to think that there's a Robinson Cunning Plan behind all of this and we're just waiting for Weir/Ansbro/the Deity to come back from injury and fill those tricky 10 and 13 shirts, but I just don't think it can possibly be like that.

If it's one player that AR is demonstrably not sure about in previous seasons, it's Weir.

So I ask again. WTF is going on?

PS - FES, you need to watch Hall again - he's not quite as bad as all that any more.

[RDW]

I can only think that he wanted to make a limited number of newbies in case things went wrong - keep an experienced core to the 22 etc.

So maybe he had to chose between gilchrist and Dunbar/Seymore and decided he wanted to see gilchrist more?

[UlstermaninGlasgow]

I give up... You'd think that Robbo might have decided "oh it's a test against Tonga, let's try out a few lads who've been performing well in the Rabo for the 3rd placed team..." NOPE!!!

Lawson/Hall - Dougie might not be everyone's cup of tea but he hits his man in the lineout and holds his own in the scrum... What more do we need for the minute until Pat McArthur gets fit again?

Stroks at 6/Kelly at 7 - Yes Tonga are big pacific islanders and they hit hard but why not give someone like Fusaro, who's been fighting Barcs for a season for the 7 shirt a chance to show what he's got in scottish colours. Or what about Harley?

Pyrgos - for once Robbo rewards good form... He showed that he was fearless against the Boks and deserved his start!

Evans at 13 - Again what has he done to be selected ahead of Horne/Dunbar/De Luca/Anyone who can tackle... Idiotic.

Lamont at 14 - We know what Sean can do, so why not give Tommy S a go? He's probably played better than Sean this season too!

Good to see Gilchrist and Heathcote get their chances but why is Richie being risked for a game like this????

[NeilyBroon]

in terms of Jackson, he opted to play for glasgow this week, I think they'd already agreed on that, so fairplay.

I think Blair was released to France too but don't quote me on that.

Max Evans is a massive brain fart, any loose knocked on ball and the tongans will pick it up and run, they're not slow men. He's nothing but an arrogant d-bag who needs to go back to France and work on his game, DESPERATELY.

Agree with the others that it's a shame for Seymour and co, let's hope they win against leinster!

[nickj]

I'm a bit surprised by the negativity on here this afternoon.

No this result doesn't matter too much but we have limited time with these guys (albeit more than some). But lets build a team. I think we are doing that slowly but surely. We are blooding youngsters, but its got to be a drip feed.

We couldn't score tries, now we seem to be able to. We complained that new talent wasn't getting a chance, now 'some' new, exciting young talent is. Heathcote is a blatant case of 'cap him quick, before Lancaster does', I just hope his heart is in it.

Personally I think the team has done some good things versus the two 'best' teams in the world. Our first 15 needs a win though and I think the coaching team (not just Robbo) has tried to go for a balance of 'new and old', while making sure the first 15 get a well deserved win under their belts before the 6N's.

Come on boys it aint that bad.

[MacKnocked-on]

Honestly can't see the problem with Heathcote being included, he's chosen Scotland rather than England so good luck to him. We should never stop trying to improve and widen our playing pool;Jackson needs to improve in many aspects of his game before he is international standard, Weir is injured and perhaps needs to develop a running game, Laidlaw is a 9 playing out of position, if Heathcote proves to be better than the others he will only improve the team and we will all be delighted.
If Matthew Tait had chosen Scotland rather than England he would probably have 100 caps by now rather than been discarded by England with their constant merry go round of selections.

[Imperialbigdave]

I think people are massively underestimating Tonga here. They are not pushovers, and it would not do to have a massively inexperienced, unfamiliar backline, with uncapped players on the bench to salvage the situation if it goes jubblies up.

This game is a must win for pride. Wether they like it or not, the team have put pressure on themselves to win this game with their calamity of a 6N and naievity last week. Not the pressure that needs to be lumped onto 4 or 5 debutants over and above the pressure of their first international. Whilst guys like Seymour, Dunbar, Horne all deserved to get capped when the squad pulled together, circumstances have dictated against them. They still have plenty of time on their side, and I expect at least 2 out of 3 to be capped by the end of the 6N.

The backline will evolve, it has been doing so since the second game of the six nations. Knee Jerk rejigging of too many positions at once is not the right thing to do.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Feel sorry for Blair unless it was his choice as per above. While he had a shocker on Saturday, the previous weekend I thought he was Scotland's best player v the ABs. Others have been consistently woeful game after game and do not get discarded - we all know who they are don't we ?

[RDW]

Feel sorry for Blair unless it was his choice as per above. While he had a shocker on Saturday, the previous weekend I thought he was Scotland's best player v the ABs. Others have been consistently woeful game after game and do not get discarded - we all know who they are don't we ?

I think that's the first time you've ever said a positive thing about someone with at least a slight connection to Edinburgh!

Where's 21st and what you done with him??

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