Why do only Wales and England fans argue?

by RogerLewis Mon 19 Nov 2012, 2:13 pm

First topic message reminder :

Why? Why do they bicker? Why do they wind each other up? Why are 99% of Welsh articles written by an English fan called HERSH? I find the rivalries and inferiority complexes rather perplexing.

Scottish people hate (not all) English people
English people hate (not all) French people
Welsh people take a dislike to England and pretend they're a member of some kind of post WWII Celtic pact.

but... only the Welsh and English argue on there boards. Why? I can't remember seeing an Irish or a Scot winding each other up. not even Oz and Kiwis!! The closest thing rugby has to football fans is us Welsh and English Sad

I'm vocal, I write a lot of stuff but rarely is it not about Wales.

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:41 pm

Patronisation is in the eye of the beholder EG4E - I am offering you an olive branch to a world of inter national debate, rivalry and banter - Its a great place to be - Come on board and enjoy the discssions - free you're soul up a little thumbsup

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:43 pm

gregortree wrote:Kiwi
We really need Strictly judges to vote on the AB Haka.

Orchestra
Craig:
Antonioni:
Len:
Darcy:

Spoiler:

by **Biltong** Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:45 pm

RubyGuby wrote:
Biltong wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:Lets cut to the chase lads and acting in my old 606 name the real cause of this is that deep down these peoples from both nations have great inferiority complexes and much of how they feel deep within their psyche is rooted in how their national team perfoms - If either Wales or England win then the other with this deep rooted angst feels violated and a lesser person. This then manifests itself with purile posts of ridicule to try and balance the fragile psyche. Conversley a win causes the weak individial to temprarily like their foe in a rather superior and patronising sort of way.

My advice to these poorly afflicted individuals is to try some classic Freudian reaction-formation techniques and/or read or keep a copy of Kiplings "If" handy - Genuinely it will help with the inner angst and make you a far nicer person all round. Simples really
Rubyguby, on the basis of that objective and forthright analysis, I have fired my therapist, can I see you next monday?

If only you knew what my day job was Bilt - do you?

Not relevant mate, can you help me? Laugh

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:48 pm

I can help anyone mate - that's what rugby mates do - You moving house or soemthing thumbsup

by **Biltong** Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:49 pm

Therapy mate, THERAPY,

And no I am not moving house, but I could have used you last week when I cleaned the Garage.

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:52 pm

Yeah I can sort the therapy bit for you no prob. thumbsup

by nobbled Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:55 pm

It's banter. If you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined. Sadly there are plenty from both sides of the dyke who joined and have had a sense of humour bypass.

Some Welsh do have a chip on their shoulders about the "English Overlords" of old, and some English just can't help but come across as patronising please insert your own insults here.

The fun part is that the see-saw of our respective rugby teams success against one another changes often enough that both sets of blowhards get to look pretty silly fairly often! Roll on the six nations - reckon it's our turn to be on the up!

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:56 pm

Well said nobbled clap

but we have beaten you on the last 2 occasions home and away Run

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 19 Nov 2012, 6:37 pm

My dad's Welsh and my mum's English. I hate it when Wales play England because I spend the whole 80 minutes punching myself.

by gregortree Mon 19 Nov 2012, 6:39 pm

Acid test: if you were selected, which cap would you take ?

by Gibson Mon 19 Nov 2012, 6:40 pm

gregortree wrote:Acid test: if you were selected, which cap would you take ?

We'd nab im for Ireland. The Man is Class.

by gregortree Mon 19 Nov 2012, 6:42 pm

Ok 6 Nations then: who will predict the tables ?

by gregortree Mon 19 Nov 2012, 6:43 pm

Luckless, you just got capped for Ireland mate. Now you really have a few problems. Laugh

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 19 Nov 2012, 6:44 pm

Oh, Wales every time. But my mum was a first-class hooker.

by Cyril Mon 19 Nov 2012, 8:00 pm

rodders wrote:
englandglory4ever wrote:
I'm too tired to list the quasi-Welsh players.

Let me get this right.....are you calling Adam jones a hunchback?

To be fair, I'm not sure if Jones is a hunchback but he is the lovechild of a poodle and a pork pie.

by doctor_grey Mon 19 Nov 2012, 8:49 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:laughing:
And you've just lived up to the English fan stereotype EG4

It takes 2 to tango.

This is clearly one of the more enjoyable threads I have read in a while. And maybe this sums up the England-Wales thingy:

It does not always take two to tango.
There are always those who prefer to tango by themselves, imagining all kinds of........things about their cousin on the other side of "The Dyke' (we could have fun with that line, eh?). Some of those people are the wums who are at the epicentre of this stuff. These "Dancing With Myself' types typically make 'small messes'. Eventually they will, of course, go blind as a result of thier own efforts, indulgences and antipathy towards others.

by HammerofThunor Mon 19 Nov 2012, 8:53 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Well said nobbled but we have beaten you on the last 2 occasions home and away

You're counting a World Cup warm up? Cor that's getting desperate. In competition it's 2:1 to England isn't it? boxing

Of course you're only as good as you're last game, apparently. Wales beat England didn't they? Obvious I'm talking about the last game Wales played against England, not their last game against anyone censored

And I like the French. My favorite team after England.

by Cyril Mon 19 Nov 2012, 8:57 pm

I like the French too.

As an English fan my two favourite other sides are the French and Aussies.

by HammerofThunor Mon 19 Nov 2012, 9:02 pm

My next one is South Africa.

by **Biltong** Mon 19 Nov 2012, 9:03 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:My next one is South Africa.

One non SA fan, thanks mate you guys are scarce.

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 9:04 pm

My favs after Wales are NZ, always have been always will be - What a team - My first ever live game as a young child was the 1973 Baa Baas v New Zealand, what an introduction "what a score" (pun intended) thumbsup

by Guest Mon 19 Nov 2012, 9:04 pm

It's pretty obvious why we argue, because my wang is huge and theirs isn't raspberry

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 9:06 pm

Wang is Japanese for overdraft - Have a word with a good IFA View thumbsup

by **Biltong** Mon 19 Nov 2012, 9:07 pm

viewtothegym wrote:It's pretty obvious why we argue, because my wang is huge and theirs isn't

Wang- Afrikaans means cheek.

So hence I have to deduce you have the biggest cheecks. Whistle

by Guest Mon 19 Nov 2012, 9:08 pm

by Cyril Mon 19 Nov 2012, 9:12 pm

So we've established that view's big backside is overdrawn. Unfortunate position to be in Wink

by **Biltong** Mon 19 Nov 2012, 9:15 pm

Not butt cheecks mate, the stuff between your ears and your nose. laughing

by Cyril Mon 19 Nov 2012, 9:16 pm

Biltong wrote:Not butt cheecks mate, the stuff between your ears and your nose.

With some folk I'm not sure that there is much distinction Laugh

by emack2 Mon 19 Nov 2012, 9:18 pm

I`m an Anglo-Scot but I don`t hate anyone BUT iit makes me smile when people here when wales and England fans have a go at each other.
Both sides have waxed and waned over the years BUT on matches against each
other England are just plus 2.
There record of Grand slams/championships are almost identical really both sides
have little to argue about over the other.
But of course someone will always find something to brag or whinge about won`t they.
I hope both sides do well in there next two matches given the perceived importance of the IRB ratings for the RWC.
Something which seems so important to the train spotters here.To me it does`nt matter all you have to do is win all your matches to win the thing.

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 9:21 pm

emack its plus 1 in Englands favour and we have them in Cardiff in the 6 Nations thumbsup

Not that I care like Whistle

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 20 Nov 2012, 7:45 am

HammerofThunor wrote:And I like the French. My favorite team after England.

France are my second team, too.

by **George Carlin** Tue 20 Nov 2012, 7:49 am

I hate joggers more than jogging itself.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 20 Nov 2012, 9:39 am

George Carlin wrote:I hate joggers more than jogging itself.

+1, although I have a special kind of hate for those people who wear all the lycra kit, and then just walk with a water bottle in their hand and claim to be joggers!

by gregortree Tue 20 Nov 2012, 9:41 am

So Viewtothebathroom claims to have the largest overdrawn chops.
He certainly chops plenty on here so his claim sounds plausible.
Laugh

Emack's history of the neck-and-neck match record perfectly explains the closeness of past 6n /5n rivalry and probably why we argue so much.

England have the superior RWC record with 3 finals and being only NH side
to bring the cup home. rose

No argument there.

by dragonbreath Tue 20 Nov 2012, 3:11 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Lets cut to the chase lads and acting in my old 606 name the real cause of this is that deep down these peoples from both nations have great inferiority complexes and much of how they feel deep within their psyche is rooted in how their national team perfoms - If either Wales or England win then the other with this deep rooted angst feels violated and a lesser person. This then manifests itself with purile posts of ridicule to try and balance the fragile psyche. Conversley a win causes the weak individial to temprarily like their foe in a rather superior and patronising sort of way.

My advice to these poorly afflicted individuals is to try some classic Freudian reaction-formation techniques and/or read or keep a copy of Kiplings "If" handy - Genuinely it will help with the inner angst and make you a far nicer person all round. Simples really

Put a sock in it BBBBBBBBBBBBBLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH. ITS JUSTA BIT OF FUN

by RubyGuby Tue 20 Nov 2012, 3:15 pm

I'm just having a bit of fun Dragon thumbsup

by Mr Fishpaste Tue 20 Nov 2012, 5:45 pm

Do you guys get along better on the cricket forums? Or the lets have a discussion on Agincourt and Crecy forums (you see, fine examples of anglo-welsh co-operation)

by gregortree Tue 20 Nov 2012, 5:58 pm

Ireland v Wales 6N can cause some bickering, and once in a while Scot v Wales. Not sure I know what the common factor is though Run

by lostinwales Wed 21 Nov 2012, 1:48 am

RubyGuby wrote:Lets cut to the chase lads and acting in my old 606 name the real cause of this is that deep down these peoples from both nations have great inferiority complexes.....

Welsh have inferiority complexes English have self doubt. Some of the symptoms are similar but the end result is entirely different. (Some scots may haye the English but they dont seem to suffer from either problem as much)

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 21 Nov 2012, 7:59 am

Mr Fishpaste wrote:Do you guys get along better on the cricket forums?

The problem doesn't arise in cricket because Welshmen, if they're good enough, play for 'England' (in full, the ECB is the England and Wales Cricket Board).

by RubyGuby Wed 21 Nov 2012, 8:50 am

"Welsh have inferiority complexes English have self doubt"

Yahoo

Of course sir, inferiority one side and self-doubt the other thumbsup

by gregortree Wed 21 Nov 2012, 9:59 am

It is all about personal and national identity. True of all great passionate rugby nations. Wales & NZ fans especially have highly intertwined personal and national id closely wrapped up with their rugby tradition.

England has a larger more complex & cosmopolitan population, and a much more fuzzy idea of the national 'English' identity (whatever that is). It seesm to me English ruby fans are a little more detached, as rugby, is not such a national identifier. I always love England successes, I whoop & holler, but having been starved of late, it does not get me down. England have both succeeded & failed in the professional era and the fans have both celebrated & cursed the national rubgy set up, but like Kipling see success & failure as the twin imposters. England fans can take both in their stride. England rugby is often accused of lacking 'passion' which reflects the general population who tend to ignore it or laugh at rugby ... too busy with their wendyball passions. Hard core rugby fans identify with their AP club as much as with the national side...and that English civil war is onlt asleep for now.

Wales & NZ populations have a visceral attachment to the national teams successes & failures which are very personal to their sense of id. Fear of losing is almost a neurotic obsession. Euphoria of success like no other.
England, the mother father and big brother of the game, of the language, seems the coolly indifferent by comparison.

England the parent: the ultimate hate figure with all those resources & all that indifference. Plus a few bickerers on 606.

by tecphobe Wed 21 Nov 2012, 10:22 am

I live in cardiff so wales ireland is massive for me and is probably the biggest rivalry for me. Purely due to the amount of stick i can take. Not to mention the effect of the rabo

by Submachine Wed 21 Nov 2012, 11:01 am

The reason the English/Welsh rivalry is so pronounced is because each side enjoys it so much. As a species we are drawn to conflict. We will argue anything with anyone, anytime, anyplace. Ever argued with someone you dislike even if you secretly agree with them just for the hell of it?

Humans v Space monsters
Southern Hemisphere v Northern
East V West
Europe v America (Ryder cup)
England V Wales
Leinster V Munster
Parish v Parish
School V School
Neighbour v Neighbour (biggest Christmas light display)
Brother V Brother
And if there’s nobody around to argue with we'll argue with ourselves.

The thing is, the most lasting conflicts are the local rivalries. The reward of getting one over your neighbour is more gratifying than a win over anyone else, especially if the history of that conflict is fairly even. If you get two dogs of similar size in a pack and neither back down they will continue to fight until one gains outright superiority.

by gregortree Wed 21 Nov 2012, 3:29 pm

Good Old BBC explains it all:
Both Cohen and Schaumberg also make a clear distinction between guilt and shame - a trait linked to low self-esteem.
Whereas guilt is a negative evaluation of a particular action, shame is defined by these researchers as a negative judgement on the whole self.
Because shame is such a painful emotion, it is thought that people who suffer from it are more likely to externalise their behaviour by blaming others or the environment."

Yeah, blame the English. Laugh

by RuggerBoy Wed 21 Nov 2012, 3:58 pm

I was one of the lucky ones to be at Twickenham this year to watch us stuff (cough) the English. I was invited on a corporate day out by my sick brother-in-law who works for Caterpillar as the token Welshman amongst a crowd of Leicester, and therefore staunch England supporters. It was the best game I've ever been to, non-stop arguing from pre-match drinks to drunken after match round-up where I pointed out to all of them that Strettle was at least a metre short of the line (cough again). Not for a second did it sink into animosity, as someone else has said earlier, it felt just like a great big family squabble. Long may the arguing continue. As a passing shot they pointed out that in a 123 match history, England were one up with 56 wins against 55 with 12 draws and 12 grand slams to our 11. I've set it up nicely for a continued argument next time by having the last words - "Just wait 'til next year."

by gregortree Wed 21 Nov 2012, 4:05 pm

So net net: 2-0
oh plus a RWC +1

RuggerBoy
nice story though. Face to face we are all much nicer, good company with each other and we enjoy the banter.

Hope we can repay you at the Millenium in February.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 21 Nov 2012, 5:15 pm

That's the thing: in person, it never goes further than banter. I work with a fair few blokes from Shropshire and let's just say they've enjoyed Wales's last two games more than I have!

by HammerofThunor Wed 21 Nov 2012, 6:11 pm

I watched the 2007 World Cup final in a Welsh working man's club. The whole place were chanting abuse towards England (the rugby team not the people). That was great fun. Let's just say my three years living in Wales and watching rugby in Wales put paid to any positive feeling I had to Welsh rugby. Used to be my second team (engaged to a Welsh girl, got into rugby due to Welsh father-in-law). They're a bit further down the list now though. Not a proper dislike but it does make me smile when they lose to 'weaker' sides.

by Guest Wed 21 Nov 2012, 6:16 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:I watched the 2007 World Cup final in a Welsh working man's club. The whole place were chanting abuse towards England (the rugby team not the people). That was great fun. Let's just say my three years living in Wales and watching rugby in Wales put paid to any positive feeling I had to Welsh rugby. Used to be my second team (engaged to a Welsh girl, got into rugby due to Welsh father-in-law). They're a bit further down the list now though. Not a proper dislike but it does make me smile when they lose to 'weaker' sides.

You don't say. Never would have guessed (sarcasm intended).

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