Can we all behave please.

First topic message reminder :

Guys, I understand the Autumn Internationals is a time where emotions can run high and disappointment can often turn into accusations, wums, negative threads etc.

But really the amount of unacceptable vitriol that has been hanging about since last night is immature and pathetic.

I am asking nicely that we start posting threads that can be contributed to in a positive manner, I will be discussing the behaviour of a number of posters with the admins tomorrow, any further continuance of negative vitriol will be punishable by bans, repeat offenders will suffer worse fates.

Thank you for your cooporation in this regard.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Red_Dragon_Spirit wrote:1st up, I'll apologise for bringing this up in public.

2nd I have PM'd Biltong with my reasons,

3rd Posting and modding don't mix well.

4th I ain't no Troll.

5th, started packing my bags

In response to your point 3, bearing in mind that this is a non-profit forum (the ads pay the site hosting costs), how do you expect to find a group of moderators who are prepared to give up their time for free as well as their right to post on subjects that interest them? Because quite frankly I wouldn't have a clue. If you expect me to keep on putting an hour or 2 each day into moderation and not be "allowed" to post then I'm afraid my response wouldn't get past the swear filter.

I joined this site because I'm passionate about rugby. I volunteered (for my sins) to be a moderator because the rugby section needed one, and I wanted to keep on discussing rugby with the people on here. I then got asked to join the admin team and I accepted, again because I like this place and you lot (most of the time ).

All our mods are passionate about rugby. I think it makes them better mods than the faceless BBC old ones because they understand the game. We all have our biases and our hot-button subjects, and that's why we have a group of mods from different countries in the interests of balance and contrasting styles.

Never suggested that mods are not "allowed" to post.

To quote myself "3rd Posting and modding don't mix well" is reference to the fact that as a mod it is difficult to post and maintain the standards you have to moderate to, because of the passion you bring. I've moderated on another site, so I'm well aware of the dedication needed and don't wish to undermine any efforts here.

BBC 606 was an utter mess, and I joined here to partake in some real discussion about Rugby, I followed a load of decent posters. However the mess that was 606 has appeared here despite the best efforts, and I have to say it nigh on impossible to find a thread that doesn't get violated by wums and trolls, and they appear to get away with it.

I speak my mind and I apologise if that offends anyone, but if I see something I vehemently disagree with or what I consider to be socially unacceptable then I will stand up and voice my concerns. And I'll take the consequences of my actions responsibly.

Anyway, to update my 5 points above

1st up, I'll apologise for bringing this up in public. Still stands

2nd I have PM'd Biltong with my reasons. it would seem that my pm to biltong has not been sent, stuck in the outbox.

3rd Posting and modding don't mix well. Seems to have been misunderstood as some sort of directive

4th I ain't no Troll. Still not, no matter what some think

5th, started packing my bags. Where is the unsubscribe button?

Would just like to apologise for my part in posting the article.

I actually thought the article had merit (but then I am welsh!) but on reflection it was not the best decision on my part.

The article has now been removed and I would like to show the everyone that it is okay to admit mistakes. Even if this is the first one I have ever made......

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Just by way of a general warning, for the next couple of weeks we'll be trialling a tweak to our moderation system - basically if you're making a bit of a dick of yourself don't be surprised if you cop a 24 hour instant ban to help keep temper levels down.

Oh my God, we've strayed into the realms of Constitutional and Administrative Law where strand one of the doctrine of the Rule of Law states:
“ … No man is punishable or can be lawfully made to suffer in body or goods except for a distinct breach of law established in the ordinary legal manner before the ordinary courts of the land. …. “.
What is the authority of our nasty moderators to determine "you're making a bit a dick of yourself"? What does that mean? The first two premises in law of what does it mean read as follows:
1.1.1 The citizen is free to do anything that is not prescribed by the law and cannot be subject to any punishment or suffer any other penalty for so doing, and
1.1.2 proposes a safeguard against arbitrary sanctions being imposed on the citizen by requiring that all laws be established “in the ordinary legal manner,”.
It is my contention that a 24 hour instant ban is not only arbitrary but grossly illegal......

OK, I'm only mucking about. I'm new here and it's just that I feel a great number of the posters on this forum, which I thought was solely about rugby, are perched on some very high horses indeed on matters concerned with anything and everything but! Lighten up chaps, please.

all I have to say

Adam D wrote:Would just like to apologise for my part in posting the article.

I actually thought the article had merit (but then I am welsh!) but on reflection it was not the best decision on my part.

The article has now been removed and I would like to show the everyone that it is okay to admit mistakes. Even if this is the first one I have ever made......

I was a bit surprised when it went up but fair play for taking it down. I'm all for a fascist forum where possibly WUMs are banned (as long as it's not me of course). Things very easily spiral out of control from very minor starts. It probably depends on the purpose of this forum and what you want it to be. I've seen some that are all business. Discuss the issue, any off topic and it's stopped. If it continues at the thread is locked. They even have spelling and grammar standards and will issue warnings if they're not met. Others allow some deviation but try to reign in WUMs, circular arguments and 'flame-wars' (I believe they're called).

This one seems to be very low key. Plenty of off topic, plenty of circular arguments, tend to come down on abuse rather than anything else.

What the hell was this article that caused so much fuss?

Don't talk about it if it's too hot to handle but maybe it's title? I just find it bizarre that so much obvious fuss has taken place over the weekend and I wasn't around to star............... I mean to witness it

SecretFly wrote:What the hell was this article that caused so much fuss?

Don't talk about it if it's too hot to handle but maybe it's title? I just find it bizarre that so much obvious fuss has taken place over the weekend and I wasn't around to star............... I mean to witness it

I don't think I want to even think about it never mind talk about it

I was basically a deliberately (apparently) over the top article about how the All Blacks are dirty cheats and deliberately took out Davies because they knew Wales didn't have 2nd row cover. That's about it really (that I saw). It was ridiculously over the top nonsense we get on here. One issue that made it a little worse was that the article went in the journal thing (for which Adam has apologized). This lead to so discussions on exactly how dirty the All Blacks are, worse than South Africans or not quite as bad as the South Africans...

Errr nobody is as bad as South Africa, FACT!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I can see why you thought that PJHolybloke. Not the best choice of phrase. But just goes to show how wires can be crossed and offence can be taken when none is intended.

It does indeed, but at least we've cleared it up and all is good in the world again, well our little bit of it at least.

I get you. Thanks for the clarification Hammer.

I just felt like I had turned up to a battleground full of dismembered bodies and I didn't have a clue there was even a war on.

Those who go out seeking offence will always find what they are looking for.

PS Kiwi Pete,
so we do not need to use euphemism for 'dick' from the 606 Thesaurus ?
Great !

Not that I would ever want to type 'dick' on here of course.

gregortree wrote:Those who go out seeking offence will always find what they are looking for.

Wickes. It's got our name on it.

Cyril a 'fence'

Heh, there's no way somebody can talk about offence without that old chestnut being shoe-horned in

cyril -are you "Kieth"

or Keith

speeling problems there???

Which "Kieth"?

I hope you don't mean "Keith Price, Luton"

gregortree wrote:Those who go out seeking offence will always find what they are looking for.

PS Kiwi Pete,
so we do not need to use euphemism for 'dick' from the 606 Thesaurus ?
Great !

Not that I would ever want to type 'dick' on here of course.

Oops. Guess who was too lazy to type "tinkywinky" and forgot we'd changed the filter

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

gregortree wrote:Those who go out seeking offence will always find what they are looking for.

PS Kiwi Pete,
so we do not need to use euphemism for 'dick' from the 606 Thesaurus ?
Great !

Not that I would ever want to type 'dick' on here of course.

Oops. Guess who was too lazy to type "tinkywinky" and forgot we'd changed the filter

See you Wednesday evening then Kiwi?

man sausage
todger
wang
nob
trouser snake
Winkle
pork sword


Its like Cari talking about Tommy Bowe

man sausage
todger
wang
nob
trouser snake
Winkle
pork sword


Its like Cari talking about Tommy Bowe

Kiwi Pete
better update the Thesaurus

man sausage
todger
wang
nob
trouser snake
Winkle
pork sword

Seabiscuit,
Really in front of the ladies, put it away willya !

Just to point out winkle was and autocorrection


About 10 minutes up Welford Road from the stadium theres a Chinese called Big Wangs. They mustve known!

I seem to be the subject of the very ills I'm accused of perpetrating. Posters have had plenty of things to say about me that I'd be very interested in hearing in person. However I have tried not to respond in kind and to debate the issues. The thread and article on the V2 journal have been pulled, and I must say that I feel a sense if relief in one respect. That so many posters dwelt on limited sections of the article and not it's thrust showed I must have misjudged in tone and expression. A reasoned argument that was not challenging at all to me seemed pointless in the circumstances.

I apologise however if people think I went too far and if the sensationalism perceived in the article distracted the reader from the basic point. Even in the professional game there is a line (as much as there is in posting online) and I hope Wales don't ever cross it deliberately to seek an advantage.

As to my 'career' and its advancement, I am an amateur. I don't get paid. I post articles when I like and as the fancy takes me. I can take it or leave it. Hits on the journal don't turn me on. Usually I try to find an angle on the game that is my personal take on it. I try to avoid cliche or received wisdoms. I like to say something somebody somewhere is wanting to see said, that never is said otherwise. I have no hidden agenda.

So, I'll give the last word to someone who can say it a lot better than me:

"They play lovely rugby but they are not lovely sportsmen. It is a charge that follows them through the ages: the glitter of their skills is countered by their cynicism...And that makes it worse that they clouted the Welsh enforcer in the second minute. It means it may have been deliberate and cools our adoration of a great side."

Eddie Butler - The Guardian.

I refer you to the words of someone else who can say it a lot better than me:

"Once again, we are hungry for a lynching
That's a strange mistake to make
You should turn the other cheek
Living in a glass house"

Tom Yorke - Very fine Englishman.

Glas. I guess that's problem. The British press feed and fan bigotry. We get it every time there's a northern tour. Reports that are short on fact, lacking reasoned argument and highly opinionated.

To be fair we have our share of media plonkers (Ratue comes to mind). I hazard to guess that there isn't an equivalent of the November feeding frenzy.

I've been following the November tours since the 70's and I can't recall a time when we don't get it in the neck for being one or more of:
cheats,
violent,
poachers of pacific talent.

With out doubt both Thomson and Hore's actions are regrettable. Both should and will be punished. To cherry pick these actions and tar a team as therefore being masters of the dark arts is poor research and reasoning. I would have also said poor journalism, but it sells papers. The problem becomes when it feeds and reinforces negative stereotypes, as it does in this case.

You started off well. Unfortunately by highlighting Butlers comments you've managed to undo any good you might have done.

Good Lord...write what you want, As my dear departed dad, who fought in 'the war' always said,' we didn't die so you had to vote, we died so that you had the choice in the first place'
For what its worth i reckon hore was just dumb....doesn't mean you're not allowed your opinion tho

blackcanelion wrote:Glas. I guess that's problem. The British press feed and fan bigotry. We get it every time there's a northern tour. Reports that are short on fact, lacking reasoned argument and highly opinionated.

To be fair we have our share of media plonkers (Ratue comes to mind). I hazard to guess that there isn't an equivalent of the November feeding frenzy.

I've been following the November tours since the 70's and I can't recall a time when we don't get it in the neck for being one or more of:
cheats,
violent,
poachers of pacific talent.

With out doubt both Thomson and Hore's actions are regrettable. Both should and will be punished. To cherry pick these actions and tar a team as therefore being masters of the dark arts is poor research and reasoning. I would have also said poor journalism, but it sells papers. The problem becomes when it feeds and reinforces negative stereotypes, as it does in this case.

You started off well. Unfortunately by highlighting Butlers comments you've managed to undo any good you might have done.

Look. I posted this article prior to the AIs:

https://www.606v2.com/t36474-the-law-of-unintended-consequence#1633355

"
The Law of Unintended Consequence

Post by anotherworldofpain on Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:20 am
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10842658

The row escalates over the judiciaries failure to adequately sanction thugs involved in the recent trend towards barbaric, premeditated and deliberate targeting of All Black captain Richie McCaw by deliberate and calculated acts of foul play. The NZ players association chief has strongly condemning the South African citing commissioner who has continuous provided carte blanche for cowardly opposition "hard men" who have ritually attempted to illegally remove McCaw's constant threat from the game, and arguably end his career prematurely.

I can't help but think that with the AIs looming at the usual anti-All Black sentiment that entails (cue the annual "outrage" over the Haka protocols and questioning of whether NZ's success is entirely attributable to being given an easy ride by referees in some sort of conspiracy), this will ultimately end up haunting New Zealand. In fact no doubt any minute now tired old incidents of alleged All Black indiscretions will be exumed from their resting places and cast around like some kind of rallying call with emotive tag lines such as "lest we forget".

It's no secret that NZ are invariably given a rough ride during the AIs in terms of acts of foul play. In the past we've seen Dylan Hartley get away with a WWF style elbow drop on McCaw completely unpenalised or cited; conversely we've seen Kevin Mealamu cited for cleaning out English players illegally killing the ball, we've seen Dan Carter cited for tackling a Welsh player rather than letting him score a try and any amount of other nonsense.

I predict that despite copping more off-the-ball stuff than you could shake a strip of Biltong at, that a vital All Black will bizarrely be cited for some innoccuous act, will be given an insanely long ban, possibly 8 or 9 weeks and the citing judiciary will make a statement along the lines of "A suspension that will send a message to players about foul play and act as a deterent" blah blah, in some mocking of this players association statement."

I don't claim to be a prophet. Just that this was entirely predictable.

Interesting. Prescient even.

I'd be far happier if people focused on the issue of foul play and how the IRB and officials deal with it. A bit of banters fine and adds to everyone's overall enjoyment. The problem occurs when it descends into a ritualistic nationalistic slanging match that it can't get out of. That's the point at which I'd like threads blocked.

Another thing I'd draw attention to BC, is the response of various posters to my pre-AI article.

Interesting reading, especially as a contrast to the reaction now.

Canelion - I've said nothing about patching

Just for the record after reading Glas's article it seemed to me an average thread which was written while still emotional about the game and actions.

The British press feed and fan bigotry.

I don't think they actually do!!!

To cherry pick these actions and tar a team as therefore being masters of the dark arts is poor research and reasoning.

I actually think these are just 2 of a line of AB 'mistakes' and the most recent of. NZ aren't tared because of this, they are named 'streetwise' by most people trying to make a point without offending, with regards to the breakdown, running lines and off the ball behaviour. They push the limits and the fact that so many fans from so many nations get so incensed prove they are constantly pushing the laws to the very edge.

IMO Glas can accuse the AB's of whatever he beleives is fair, it's his opinion and IMO equates to AWOP belittling every NH nation, Rogers and views distaste of anything English and HERSH's obsession with everything welsh or Henson!!!

There has been enough condemning and although I may not necesarily agree with conspiracy theories or a nations reputation as not so gentlemanly I will fight to the teeth to allow the opinion of such, and to allow the discussion.

For the record Glas I like to post online as if I were stood next to the guy in the pub, not sure who's said what about you personally but I personally have read far worse threads on here

blackcanelion wrote:Glas. I guess that's problem. The British press feed and fan bigotry. We get it every time there's a northern tour. Reports that are short on fact, lacking reasoned argument and highly opinionated.

To be fair we have our share of media plonkers (Ratue comes to mind). I hazard to guess that there isn't an equivalent of the November feeding frenzy.

I've been following the November tours since the 70's and I can't recall a time when we don't get it in the neck for being one or more of:
cheats,
violent,
poachers of pacific talent.

Try being English!