Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Lions coach Warren Gatland has told England captain Chris Robshaw that he will not tour Australia with the Lions next year as he is not a natural 7. Robshaw who in his last two outings for England struggled against natural 7s in Michael Hooper and Francois Louw.
Here is the article from the Telegraph.
Here is the article from the Telegraph.
A bad week became worse for Chris Robshaw on Wednesday when the England captain felt his first cuff around the head by a Kiwi. It was delivered by Warren Gatland, who, in his role as Lions coach, revealed he would only consider specialist opensides for the tour to Australia next summer.
There goes Robshaw’s chances of captaining the British and Irish tourists, with Sam Warburton still the outstanding favourite. The Harlequins dynamo has many attributes but one of them is not a claim to be what Gatland calls “a genuine seven”. After having his national leadership widely questioned after the Springboks defeat last Saturday, Robshaw saw his suitability to his national position come under scrutiny as well.
“I feel England struggle for a genuine seven,” Gatland said. “Chris has been doing that role and people speak strongly of his leadership qualities. But I think at the moment you need genuine sevens going to Australia, who are competing hard on the ball and being effective. Because Australia don’t just have [David] Pocock, it’s [Michael] Hooper and [Liam] Gill as well. They are all quality sevens.”
Gatland believes Robshaw is a victim of the manner in which the Aviva Premiership is refereed. The attacking sides, he said, are favoured by the whistleblowers meaning “it’s difficult for a genuine seven to actually get himself in the game”. Listening to Gatland, Robshaw might suspect it will be difficult to actually get himself on the plane. Although, to be fair, Robshaw does have other problems to occupy his mind, with New Zealand visiting on Saturday.
Gatland is another with an overload of short-term negativity with which to deal. He must wonder at the moment which of his two hats is the more uncomfortable to don. After concentrating on his Lions duties for the first two autumn Tests, he resumed the reins as Wales coach last week to try to stop the alarming rot of defeats against Argentina and Samoa. And, despite an improved performance against the All Blacks, the statistics make concerning reading – whichever hat he is wearing.
Wales falling out of the world’s top eight is one thing, but from a Lions perspective consider the following. If the Millennium Stadium witnesses a fourth successive reversal and England fail to beat the world champions, this will be first time in 15 years when the home nations have failed to record at least one victory against the three southern hemisphere giants between them. But Gatland claimed not to have been shocked by the results, regardless of his own men’s standing as Grand Slam champions.
“The [Rugby Championship] teams have been together for a number of weeks and have come in a little bit sharper and better prepared,” he said. “They have played with an intensity week in and week out which has taken our home unions a little bit of time to get up to speed with. I’m not surprised by that really.
“Last week we had 73 per cent of possession and 57 per cent of territory in the second half – no team does that against the All Blacks. They are the most ruthless team out there. There are some things we need to address but collectively for the four home nations there are a lot of positives we can take from the autumn.”
Gatland is still evidently keen on Warburton, “genuine seven”, as his captain. “He was under a bit of pressure against the All Blacks but I though he was outstanding,” crooned Gatland. Yet there was also a caveat. “If it means picking what we think is the best team and leaving the captain out, I’ll be more than comfortable .”
The former hooker is renowned for playing it with a straight face, although surely it took all his poker prowess to overestimate the strength of this particular hand. “What I am still excited about is the potential a Lions team still has; particularly in certain areas,” Gatland said. “There are a few injuries but potentially we are strong in the second row, back row there’s a lot of competition, in the midfield as well and in the back three we have real options. We’re still lacking strength in depth in one or two areas.”
The half-backs are a concern as is the front row. Yet Gatland does not do overt panic and is adamant these are, as they say, early days. Gatland will name his backroom staff in two weeks’ time and, just as he did before this series of internationals sit down with “some key personnel to see what the squad would look like” and then repeat the process before and, for the final time, after the Six Nations.
“Nothing is crystallised at the moment,” said Gatland, speaking at the adidas launch of the Lions shirt. “We are looking at the players that have the form, reputation and pedigree, and seeing where they are, and then looking at the youngsters who are putting up their hands. The obvious example from last weekend is the Irish wing Craig Gilroy. He has put himself into contention.”
Have any players played themselves out of contention? Not in Gatland’s eyes, but you would have to be worried if you are Robshaw – or are playing for a French side. “At the weekend Mike Phillips was blowing after 52 minutes – we had to get him off. If the players go to France they take a risk that they won’t reach our standards and expectations.
“In France they tend to have one fitness coach who puts the programme up on the board and it is not monitored as heavily. That’s something we must look at. Are they in the best shape to compete at the highest level even though they might be playing quite well in France?” Questions, questions. All too soon, Gatland will have to supply the answers.
Driver- Posts : 11038
Join date : 2011-04-20
Age : 32
Location : Hartlepool
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
A bit short sighted of Gats IMO , still have the Nz game and the whole 6 Nations to be played yet , and he is already ruling out players ?
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EngInAuck- Posts : 227
Join date : 2011-11-08
Location : Auckland
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Bit strange as well i thought , Surely Robshaw is just as good on the deck as Sam Warburton?
Driver- Posts : 11038
Join date : 2011-04-20
Age : 32
Location : Hartlepool
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Bit out of order. Cheers for knocking him down before our hardest game, Gats.
EnglishReign- Posts : 2040
Join date : 2011-06-12
Location : London
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Not Gatlands biggest fan at all , bigs his own players up so much to the point where he just insults the opposition.
Driver- Posts : 11038
Join date : 2011-04-20
Age : 32
Location : Hartlepool
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
This is the same Robshaw that won more turnovers over the summer than any of the "genuine" 7s out there despite only playing 2 games. He's had 2 games where he hasn't been his best and all of a sudden he's useless. Gatland still talks about Warburton like hes the best 7 in the world, despite the fact that he has been bested by Pocock the last few times they have played. Don't get me wrong, Warburton is a great player, but i hate how Gats and a few others on this board think he is a million miles better than Robshaw, he's not, they're noth great 7s who offer slightly different things.
belovedfrosties- Posts : 358
Join date : 2011-05-26
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Fingers crossed. Hopefully none of our players will go on the Lions tour. It seems to ruin players for years afterward.
HammerofThunor- Posts : 10471
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Hull, England - Originally Potteries
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Robshaw is not a genuine 7, Gatland is correct. He si a very good 6, even a 6 and half, but he is not a true openside, and Gatland is right to want to selct 7's in his squad who he feels will compete with Pocock and Hooper over the ball on the deck.
Robshaw may go, but if he does, it will be as a 6.
Robshaw may go, but if he does, it will be as a 6.
Ozzy3213- Moderator
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Wonder what he'll think of Sean O'Brien. He can play across the back row but he's been very good at 7 over the last year. If ferris is fit I think he should be at 6 so SOB would be at 7 in my team. However he's not exactly known as a classic 7
Golden- Posts : 3368
Join date : 2011-09-06
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Gatland is a pompous man. A few weeks ago, the Lions looked like it would be predominantly Wales. His own favoured Captain, Sam, was dropped for a game. The saving grace is that whichever side dominates the Lions tends to crash and urn come the subsequent 6 Nations. Robshaw is a great 6 and never pretended to be a natural 7. Frankly, I couldn't care less what Gatland thinks. I think he jumped off that ladder when he realised how Wales were progressing and then blamed it all on Rob Howler (sic)
sausage1966- Posts : 64
Join date : 2011-01-28
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
I think this is all words for words. Mind games in a way. Keeping every possible for a Lions spot on edge. A way to motivate.
But I think nothing he says at the moment means anything. Only after the 6 Nations does anything matter. I wouldn't read anything into it.
But I think nothing he says at the moment means anything. Only after the 6 Nations does anything matter. I wouldn't read anything into it.
doctor_grey- Posts : 12219
Join date : 2011-04-30
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Driver wrote:Bit strange as well i thought , Surely Robshaw is just as good on the deck as Sam Warburton?
He (Robshaw) Maywell be has good has Sam Warburton on the deck.
The thing is Robshaw is English.... And Sam Warburton is "WELSH"
Do you understand Driver?
majesticimperialman- Posts : 6170
Join date : 2011-02-11
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Bit harsh, he could still tour regardless of being a '6/6.5'. I wouldn't mind seeing Steffan Armitage tour, if he keeps playing well for the rest of the year. I've always stated Warbs and Tips would be ahead of Robshaw because they were 'fetchers.'
Morgannwg- Posts : 6338
Join date : 2011-10-10
Location : Bristol - Newport
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
majesticimperialman wrote:Driver wrote:Bit strange as well i thought , Surely Robshaw is just as good on the deck as Sam Warburton?
He (Robshaw) Maywell be has good has Sam Warburton on the deck.
The thing is Robshaw is English.... And Sam Warburton is "WELSH"
Do you understand Driver?
Understand what? Gatland isn't going to favour Welsh players is he? Firstly, he's chasing a high profile New Zealand job at some point, so would want his cv boosted with a series win and secondly he's a Kiwi who would love to get one over the Aussies, so he's going to pick the strongest side possible.
Guest- Guest
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Good to see Gatland want's a real 7 to tour for the Lions, who would want a hopeless player like Robshaw lingering around every ruck with his dopey bottom lip hanging to the floor.
Also to see the English press to suggest he will be captain is hilarious,he can't make the right decisions also we have grand slam winning Captain Warburton in the forefront.
I can also see a lot of Irish players joining the GrandSlam Welsh players for the Lions tour,
we will have to have the token English player to keep SKY rugby club happy.
Also to see the English press to suggest he will be captain is hilarious,he can't make the right decisions also we have grand slam winning Captain Warburton in the forefront.
I can also see a lot of Irish players joining the GrandSlam Welsh players for the Lions tour,
we will have to have the token English player to keep SKY rugby club happy.
Guest- Guest
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
To be honest i can't think of one single English player who is more deserving than a Welsh or Irish player to tour with the Lions!
Maybe Owen Farrell because he got a Nomination for IRB player of the year might win the sympathy vote from Gatland.
Actually hold that thought Manu might make it.
Maybe Owen Farrell because he got a Nomination for IRB player of the year might win the sympathy vote from Gatland.
Actually hold that thought Manu might make it.
Guest- Guest
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
view, how about you try posting something constructive mate.
Ozzy3213- Moderator
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Just my honest opinion , you never know my opinion might change after the 2013 six nations.
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
viewtothegym wrote:To be honest i can't think of one single English player who is more deserving than a Welsh or Irish player to tour with the Lions!
Maybe Owen Farrell because he got a Nomination for IRB player of the year might win the sympathy vote from Gatland.
Actually hold that thought Manu might make it.
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EngInAuck- Posts : 227
Join date : 2011-11-08
Location : Auckland
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Risca Rev wrote:majesticimperialman wrote:Driver wrote:Bit strange as well i thought , Surely Robshaw is just as good on the deck as Sam Warburton?
He (Robshaw) Maywell be has good has Sam Warburton on the deck.
The thing is Robshaw is English.... And Sam Warburton is "WELSH"
Do you understand Driver?
Understand what? Gatland isn't going to favour Welsh players is he? Firstly, he's chasing a high profile New Zealand job at some point, so would want his cv boosted with a series win and secondly he's a Kiwi who would love to get one over the Aussies, so he's going to pick the strongest side possible.
Isn't it time he started doing that for Wales?
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Englandshire
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
EngInAuck wrote:viewtothegym wrote:To be honest i can't think of one single English player who is more deserving than a Welsh or Irish player to tour with the Lions!
Maybe Owen Farrell because he got a Nomination for IRB player of the year might win the sympathy vote from Gatland.
Actually hold that thought Manu might make it.![]()
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Well all be laughing when Lou reed gets nominated next year
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler- Posts : 10344
Join date : 2011-06-02
Location : Englandshire
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Risca Rev wrote:majesticimperialman wrote:Driver wrote:Bit strange as well i thought , Surely Robshaw is just as good on the deck as Sam Warburton?
He (Robshaw) Maywell be has good has Sam Warburton on the deck.
The thing is Robshaw is English.... And Sam Warburton is "WELSH"
Do you understand Driver?
Understand what? Gatland isn't going to favour Welsh players is he? Firstly, he's chasing a high profile New Zealand job at some point, so would want his cv boosted with a series win and secondly he's a Kiwi who would love to get one over the Aussies, so he's going to pick the strongest side possible.
Isn't it time he started doing that for Wales?
Yeah sure. That would be lovely
Guest- Guest
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Robshaw, Warburton, Henry, Rennie, send who you want, none of them are a match for Hooper at the breakdown, let alone Pocock.
mzan- Posts : 38
Join date : 2012-04-12
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Didn't warren Gatland take johnny O'Connor to Wasps? That would be the bolter to end all bolters
Submachine- Posts : 1092
Join date : 2011-06-21
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Ah who cares...
If Robshaw doesnt go he can have a deserved summer off...
Let Sir Sam et al do what they can....
If Robshaw doesnt go he can have a deserved summer off...
Let Sir Sam et al do what they can....
Geordie- Posts : 28755
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
I am surprised at the response by England fans when so many of you were calling for Steffan Armitage to play as an out and out seven, those same fans were criticising his captaincy decisions...!
He is a good flanker up against some very tough competition as either a seven or a six.
He is a good flanker up against some very tough competition as either a seven or a six.
maestegmafia- Posts : 23145
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
I dont think theres much chance of Armitage playing for England again...he's well out the loop.
Many names have been out out there - Wallace, Kvesic etc...but Robshaw has been the outstanding 7 in the country for several seasons now...
Is he an out and out 7...possibly not..is he effective at the breakdown - yes he is...
He suits England for the moment...as we have other areas that are in more need of attention.
If Gatland doesnt want him then hey thats fine......but if your looking for an out and out 7 then your looking at the likes of Rennie....rather than Warburton...
Many names have been out out there - Wallace, Kvesic etc...but Robshaw has been the outstanding 7 in the country for several seasons now...
Is he an out and out 7...possibly not..is he effective at the breakdown - yes he is...
He suits England for the moment...as we have other areas that are in more need of attention.
If Gatland doesnt want him then hey thats fine......but if your looking for an out and out 7 then your looking at the likes of Rennie....rather than Warburton...
Geordie- Posts : 28755
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Very true maes, then we take into account the English paper is the one who has named Robshaw,Gatland didn't he just want's an out and out seven, which any coach would want when playing Australia.
But the English fans are taking this so personal
But the English fans are taking this so personal
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
GeordieFalcon wrote:I dont think theres much chance of Armitage playing for England again...he's well out the loop.
Many names have been out out there - Wallace, Kvesic etc...but Robshaw has been the outstanding 7 in the country for several seasons now...
Is he an out and out 7...possibly not..is he effective at the breakdown - yes he is...
He suits England for the moment...as we have other areas that are in more need of attention.
If Gatland doesnt want him then hey thats fine......but if your looking for an out and out 7 then your looking at the likes of Rennie....rather than Warburton...
Why? Isn't Warburton an out and out 7?
Morgannwg- Posts : 6338
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Personnaly i'll be happy with Robshaw staying with England. It'll be good to have him for our summer tour to Argentina.
As to Englands players who may travel with the Lions. So far it's just Cole who's almost a certainty.
Potentials are: Corbisiero, Launchberry, Hartley, Croft, Morgan, Care/Youngs, Flood and Manu.
As to Englands players who may travel with the Lions. So far it's just Cole who's almost a certainty.
Potentials are: Corbisiero, Launchberry, Hartley, Croft, Morgan, Care/Youngs, Flood and Manu.
yappysnap- Posts : 11993
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
viewtothegym wrote:Very true maes, then we take into account the English paper is the one who has named Robshaw,Gatland didn't he just want's an out and out seven, which any coach would want when playing Australia.
But the English fans are taking this so personal
Actually if you read the article, Gatland specifically talks about Robshaw, by name
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
And no, I don't think Warbs is an out and out fetcher type 7. When has he gone up against one and come out on top, ever?
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Warburton wins on average 0.3 turnovers per game, which for any 7, whether its an out and out fetcher or 6.5 is terrible.
Artful_Dodger- Posts : 4260
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Robshaw for the Lions after all?
Warburton to get the honours of carrying his kit bag. Possibly.
Warburton to get the honours of carrying his kit bag. Possibly.
Pot Hale- Posts : 7781
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
I think the while back row was outstanding...Wood was awesome...
But that was one game..
But that was one game..
Geordie- Posts : 28755
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
well done Robshaw and England for ruining the kiwi Lions coaches Saturday and sending him a message.. don't judge too soon.
trebellbobaggins- Posts : 4943
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
I actually think wood could go over croft and Robshaw....if he can get a run of fitness...he has a style of Juan smith...just excellent all round....which lets the likes of sob etc run riot....
Geordie- Posts : 28755
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
With due respect to Gatland its quite clear he doesn't have a clue what is required in a no7 (or perhaps any other position either) to beat this Australian side.
rodders- Moderator
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Its also a question of captaincy as well so why would you want to choice a loser ( Warbs ) no experience of winning against SH teams it just doesn't make sense
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Let's hope if Gats picks English players that the Aussies have food poising to even it out for them.
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
I just wonder if England have shown how to beat oz without a genuine 7.none of the 6n sides have ops sides to compete with pocock so why not just adopt a different strategy, bully them up front so their constantly on the back foot which negates a fler and brings people like robshaw and obrien back into the game.
stevetynant- Posts : 210
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
What i liked about England today was how the whole pack seemed to take on the responsibility of the breakdown... It wasn't just the designated openside etc.
Robshaw was immense though and was everywhere... Gatland would be insane to leave him out or wood in this form (if it continues into the 6n).
What worries me about choosing warburton for the lions is that pocock bests him every time... He's just a better player and always gets out on top. They have similar styles and I just don't see utilising him in a winning format.
Robshaw is developing this aura about him... His men want to follow him, even when they lost 2 on the trot you could see his men believe in him... That is so important for a side.
To be honest, if robshaw continues in this form and England go on to take the 6n by storm (reasonable IMO) then gatland may have even found his captain.
Robshaw was immense though and was everywhere... Gatland would be insane to leave him out or wood in this form (if it continues into the 6n).
What worries me about choosing warburton for the lions is that pocock bests him every time... He's just a better player and always gets out on top. They have similar styles and I just don't see utilising him in a winning format.
Robshaw is developing this aura about him... His men want to follow him, even when they lost 2 on the trot you could see his men believe in him... That is so important for a side.
To be honest, if robshaw continues in this form and England go on to take the 6n by storm (reasonable IMO) then gatland may have even found his captain.
fa0019- Posts : 8196
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
I'd imagine Gatland is feeling a little bit silly tonight for these comments, Well played Robshaw, great way to respond.
Scrumpy- Posts : 4217
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Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
fa0019 wrote:What i liked about England today was how the whole pack seemed to take on the responsibility of the breakdown... It wasn't just the designated openside etc.
Agree - I think there were turnovers from Robshaw, Wood, Launchbury, Parling, Cole and even Brown. The main improvement under Lancaster (and Rowntree's move to general forwards coach) seems to be our intensity at the breakdown. Wood and Robshaw look like they could make a pretty formidable flanker partnership long-term. The question is what happens when Croft, who seemed to have found his best England form during the Six Nations, is back?
thomh- Posts : 1816
Join date : 2012-01-11
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Hilarious "Robshaw is developing this aura about him" Last Saturday the English media and fans wanted him dropped and Armitage to come in
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Guest- Guest
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Regardless of whether Robshaw played good or bad today, this was the wrong thing to say. How could the Lions coach rule out anyone with the rest of the season to go? However Robshaw did play well and certainly put up his hand for the 7 jersey and captains armband. If Robshaw carries on this play into the 6 Nations Gats would be a fool not to select the England captain.
Morgannwg- Posts : 6338
Join date : 2011-10-10
Location : Bristol - Newport
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Morgannwg wrote:Regardless of whether Robshaw played good or bad today, this was the wrong thing to say. How could the Lions coach rule out anyone with the rest of the season to go? However Robshaw did play well and certainly put up his hand for the 7 jersey and captains armband. If Robshaw carries on this play into the 6 Nations Gats would be a fool not to select the England captain.
In fairness I think the thread title is misleading. Gatland's comments don't actually rule out Robshaw being selected.
thomh- Posts : 1816
Join date : 2012-01-11
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
viewtothegym wrote:Good to see Gatland want's a real 7 to tour for the Lions, who would want a hopeless player like Robshaw lingering around every ruck with his dopey bottom lip hanging to the floor.
Also to see the English press to suggest he will be captain is hilarious,he can't make the right decisions also we have grand slam winning Captain Warburton in the forefront.
I can also see a lot of Irish players joining the GrandSlam Welsh players for the Lions tour,
we will have to have the token English player to keep SKY rugby club happy.
......
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EngInAuck- Posts : 227
Join date : 2011-11-08
Location : Auckland
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Robshaw and Lancaster seem to be good at learning from prior mistakes, good attributes for leaders i think....
freeman lowell- Posts : 61
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Age : 59
Location : england
Re: Chris Robshaw will not be a Lion in 2013.
Scotland would have put that fever ravaged NZ side to the sword, lets not forget how bad England played against teams without sicknessEngInAuck wrote:viewtothegym wrote:Good to see Gatland want's a real 7 to tour for the Lions, who would want a hopeless player like Robshaw lingering around every ruck with his dopey bottom lip hanging to the floor.
Also to see the English press to suggest he will be captain is hilarious,he can't make the right decisions also we have grand slam winning Captain Warburton in the forefront.
I can also see a lot of Irish players joining the GrandSlam Welsh players for the Lions tour,
we will have to have the token English player to keep SKY rugby club happy.
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» Chris Robshaw
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» Chris Robshaw sweepstake
» Every dog has it's day : The Ballard of Chris Robshaw
» Chris Robshaw 200 Quins Caps
» Dumbest Man of the Autumn series? - CONGRATULATIONS Chris Robshaw
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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