Wales moving forward

Well, for us Welsh fans and the team this Autumn has been somewhat of a disaster to be frank. Abismal performances vs Samoa and Argentina were unexpected to say the least, with the hoodoo against the AB's continued despite a positive second half performance and well, same old same old vs Australia. So what went wrong and what can be improved on imo.

Team Selection

Its time now Wales stopped picking people for their name and past performances. Obvious examples include Jenkins, Roberts, Preistland and Phillips. These guys lacked game time and form and still played. When all on top form and fit, no doubt most would make the team. Key here though is they weren't and it cost us big time.

When you have players such as Biggar, James, Hook, Byrne, G.Davies, Smith, Hughes etc all slugging away and putting in good performance after good performance for their clubs, what it does it do to their confidence when despiter playing well, players who aren't and have played very little rugby are in ahead of the consistently. Gareth Davies being the most obvious case, as somehow despite him starting ahead of Knoyle in tfor the Scarlets, Knoyle get's reserve SH whilst Davies is left at home. How?

Tactics

Crash ball, kicking down the middle, slow ball at rucks, line out going wrong. Heard that quite a few times this Autumn. The biggest mistake in tactics for me being the kicking game.

Wales for some time have been obsessed with using a kicking game. When done properly, it works well, as a good chase can really peg your opponents back and cause a mistake. However, both our kicking and chasing is below par to say the least. How many times have got the ball, with 3 men at the back and just lumped it, straight down the middle, with no time to put together a meaningful chase and gthe opposition have ran it back 40 odd metres and earned a penalty or even scored a try. I'm sick of it. We have talented players who, with ball in hand and running are as good as many of the top tier nations. Give them the ball, show the opposition what you can do rather than just lumping it aimlessly down the throat of the opposition FB.

The crash ball worked well for Lions and for us for quite some time with Roberts. Now, he's very much been targeted and makes little ground as 2 tacklers are there everytime waiting for him. Other sides will adapt to this but Wales haven't. Roberts instantly attracts at least 2 defenders every time, so why not use him as a decoy and have North/JD2/ 1/2p running on the outside to exploit the space. No, every time we go to Roberts.

Coaching

Gatland not being there has clearly had an effect in my view. Howley is not ready for being a head coach. Great player but coaching is a whole different ball game and until you've been a head coach its very hard to get the best out of a side without that coaching experience.

From what i've heard, Neil Jenkins when asked to take some of the training sessions has been outstanding, and from what i've heard the difference between Howley's training sessions and Jenks are like watching two different sides. Maybe Jenks needs to come to the forefront a bit more and take more of a lead. Personally, I would like another coach to come in and allow Howley just to take care of the backs again, he's out of his depth, not his fault by any means.

So my team going forward would be:

1. James
2. Owens
3. Jones
4. Evans
5. Charteris
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Webb/Davies i'm undecided
10. Hook
11. North
12. Beck/Henson if he can get some games under his belt
13. JD2
14. Cuthbert
15. 1/2p

16. Jenkins
17. Hibbard
18. Jarvis
19. Jones
20. Tipuric
21. Davies/Webb
22. Biggar
23. S.Williams

I agree the only player I am not happy in your selection is Faletau, he has been poor during Aust and AI's, he looks lost and has no form.

The problem with Wales as you state, we have too many players not playing enough, we are not picking our best team and the tactics are very predictable and (I add) we have a worse than average flyhalf with no composure or confidence. Some say (sound like top gear) Preistland played well in the last game, I disagree, my heart was in my mouth throughout the game such as just getting into touch twice from penalties, kicking direct into touch, a number of hospital passes (M Rees and Halpenny) dithering making passes and to top it all kicking down the throat of the fullball when it should have been put out with 90 secs to go (again).

Like you I want a decent coach or two in but I prefer to get shot of Howley and McBryde and bring in some flair. Come the 6N we will return to the same team starting in the RWC regardless of form/ability.

Going forward???

James and Jones won't be here come world cup time, neither will Evans and Charteris!!

And no Liam Williams???

thebluesmancometh wrote:Going forward???

James and Jones won't be here come world cup time, neither will Evans and Charteris!!

And no Liam Williams???

Charteris will be 32 and Evans 31 so I would expect both of them to make it James and Adam will be 34 so will be pushing it. Craig Mitchell and Samson Lee are the likely replacements for him and both can bring something to the scrum. Jarvis and Andrews for all their ability around the field are not destructive enough.

The problem is the 10/12 axis which is stifling our attack and has been misfiring all year. One of Priestland, Biggar, Hook, Tovey or even Patchell needs to nail the ten shirt down. We certainly need a playmaker at 12 instead of a crashball and whether that is Beck or Henson I guess is down to form.

Mike Phillips likewise is going to need a real challenge. Webb, Tavis and Lloyd W are in pole position but I actually prefer the look of Gareth Davies at the Scarlets. I think the team in 2015 should look something like this.

1. Bevvington
2. Hibbard
3. Mitchell
4. Evans
5. Charteris
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Gareth Davies
10. Priestland/Biggar/Tovey/Patchell
11. North
12. Beck
13. JD
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. James
17. Owens
18. Lee
19. AWJ
20. Tipuric
21. Williams/Phillips
22. Priestland, Biggar, Tovey, Patchell
23. Roberts

With players like Liam W, S Williams, Shingler, Jarvis, Andrews, Bradley, Hook, Henson, Tavis, Webb perhaps Ryan J and Adam all around as well the RWC squad for 2015 has the potential to be the most talented squad we have sent.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Going forward???

James and Jones won't be here come world cup time, neither will Evans and Charteris!!

And no Liam Williams???

I think they will, but it'll be their last tournament for Wales and that's when hopefully, through playing for their regions and getting a decent amount of game time for Wales, younger players can take the mantle. I still believe Evans and Charteris are our 2 best locks personally and they won't be ridiculous ages come the world cup, especially for locks anyway.

Liam Williams is tremendous. Love him, just couldn't fit him in the side. Looking back I'd maybe have him on the bench ahead of S.Williams, I just couldn't drop 1/2p, Cuthbert and North.

TO

TBH I think Charteris is starting to slow already, is Evans really only 28? I thought he was 30.

I'm with you, I prefer Davies to any of the above, but then I'd prefer Roberts to Davies also!!!

I think your underestimating Andrews though, he was going well for the few b;ues appearances and then did well in the AI's! I'd like to see him at LH and think that may be his way forward, he can scrummage but isn't destructive, but has lovely hands for a big guy.

Well in all honesty I'd consider him at hooker too, but not everyone would have the foresight to agree with me.

Liam

I could drop Cuthbert easily enough, just put him into a contact session with the U16's and watch him struggle!!! Great finisher but too soft like Visser, needs to toughen up massively!!

Excellent post Liam, agree with virtually everything you've said - though I would also find a place for Liam Williams in the team (or at least on the bench) - one of the few bright spots of the autumn. I also worry about our management, tactics and continued reliance on the likes of Phillips/Roberts. The World Cup and last 6N were great as far as they went but I worry about where it's heading. Stuart Barnes wrote a damning article about our style of play after we won the last grand slam and at the time I thought he was just bitter but I now realise he was right.

Good thread. Covers all the relevant points. Selection plays a part but tactics is the main problem.

Priestland needs a long rest back in Llanelli to recover his form, but he'll never be more than a competent performer at test level - lack of distance and accuracy on his kicks is too much of a handicap to overcome.

Faletau is a luxury player, a clone of Martyn Williams (in the way he plays, not the way he looks). When Lydiate is there chopping people down and Warburton is at his world class best then Faletau's subtle finessing style fits in nicely. Otherwise, he's too lightweight. Ryan Jones should start. Phillips has to play to bolster the pack in 'the loose'.

It's pointless having a 'playmaker' at 12 when the tactics are to bosh it up the middle and chase kicks for 80mins. Roberts has to play. Scott Williams is the only other option.

Other than that, the team selects itself. We have no strength in depth.

Kick and chase worked, just, in the 6N but the rest of the world moves on. If we play the same tactics against France and England next year we'll get slaughtered.

I make no claims to be an expert on Wales players,who your strongest team is etc.Also the picking on form instead of reputation thing can be tricky be cause Club Rugby isn`t Test Rugby.Some players tend toplay with in themselves at Club level but excel in tests.Not having watched much Rugby under the experimental changes I can`t really tell .
BUT Refs seem to be clamping down on the Scrum/breakdown area ,defence is back to the 2009 period and kicking badly endemic.
The thing about a National Coach doing double duty as a lions coach is hardly ideal is it?.
Your most recent match was versus Australia,and most of the match was a scrappy Penalty fest.
The Breakdown Penalty city where the more streetwise Aussies shaded you,the Scrum was mostly ok although were relatively few.
Your Lineout was appalling for that there is no excuse it is just a matter of practice.When your opponent can kick to touch with impunity confident of getting a 50/50 chance of retaining possesion that`s dreadful.
A kicking game skilfully executed can be a match winning tactic poorly executed a match losing one.
On saturday we saw Wales ,use chip kicks which did`nt work,kick aheads when keeping ball in hand was the option.Aimless up and unders that were to shallow and no kick chase.Often it was just a case of hoofing it downfield aimlessly
the Australians were just as bad.
When you started to move the ball you looked dangerous but to often players were isolated without support.Having said that you were very close to having a Penalty try for one incident.Were the better of two poor sides and unlucky to lose.
BUT I have no doubt with better selection and hard work you will be difficult to beat as always.
By the way a specialist Lock on the Bench is a must these days not make do ones.

Agree with Liam's post. It's an open questions as to whether the inclusion of Mike Phillips and Jamie Roberts dictate the tactics, or the other way round. Anyway it's got to change coz it never workd against the Big 3 and may not work against France & England now either.

Liam Williams needs to work on his high ball catching, but overall I was very impressed by him - one try-saving hit was spectacular - whereas the flaws in Cuthbert's game have become more evident. He made a great break from the 22, but it was clear that 2 Aussie defenders were going to close him down unless he kicked. He didn't.

glamorganalun wrote:Preistland... kicking down the throat of the fullball when it should have been put out with 90 secs to go (again).

I knew this would happen: Priestland being blamed for the defeat. Why is no one questioning Warburton's shocking decision to kick a penalty to the corner when we lead by three points with five minutes left on the clock? Halfpenny had already converted a penalty from further out. Even if he'd missed the kick, it would have eaten up another minute or two.

Chris Robshaw got all kinds of stick for his decision-making, but Warburton seems to be above criticism.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Preistland... kicking down the throat of the fullball when it should have been put out with 90 secs to go (again).

I knew this would happen: Priestland being blamed for the defeat. Why is no one questioning Warburton's shocking decision to kick a penalty to the corner when we lead by three points with five minutes left on the clock? Halfpenny had already converted a penalty from further out. Even if he'd missed the kick, it would have eaten up another minute or two.

Chris Robshaw got all kinds of stick for his decision-making, but Warburton seems to be above criticism.

Not too sure it's comparable. Robshaw taking 3 when he needed 5 to win was very strange.

Kicking to touch and winning the line-out with a front ball, then retaining possession for the dying seconds would have been the right thing to do. Obviously, though, that depends on a) finding touch, b) winning the line-out. Neither of which we re good at.

Still I wouldn't blame Sam for this.





I

samuraidragon wrote:Kicking to touch and winning the line-out with a front ball, then retaining possession for the dying seconds would have been the right thing to do. Obviously, though, that depends on a) finding touch, b) winning the line-out. Neither of which we re good at.

Still I wouldn't blame Sam for this.

He's the captain, surely it was his call.

ever thought about moving halfpenny to the wing???

For me he looks a little out of place at FB and doesn't get the ball enough attack wise. Top player that he is I think he could be better used elsewhere.

Isn't Lee "Cash for Gold" Byrne starting for Claremont??? He's a natural fullback and if he's starting for one of the best teams in France than I'm sure he's holding decent form.

I'd take Cuthbert out until he gets a better all-round game and put in halfpenny at 14.

Priestland has to go... he just cannot play... pick anyone, pick Adam Jones at flyhalf over him. Enough of the dramatics.... he's not mentally strong enough to run a team at test level.

Hodgson, Donald, Hougaard, Priestland... they all suffered from the same thing.... they may have played the odd half decent game for their country but overall they mentally freeze and being the most important player on the pitch... you just cannot have that jepordising your entire team.

How is Henson playing also... he starting regularly for LW? If so I think he has to be considered at least for 12... Roberts looked a little jaded, a little limited.... perhaps he's not had much time post injury???

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

samuraidragon wrote:Kicking to touch and winning the line-out with a front ball, then retaining possession for the dying seconds would have been the right thing to do. Obviously, though, that depends on a) finding touch, b) winning the line-out. Neither of which we re good at.

Still I wouldn't blame Sam for this.

He's the captain, surely it was his call.

Sure - but I don't think the call was wrong in itself. He would have expected RP to make touch somewhere(not so hard, for god's sake). He would have expected a frontball to get possession from the lineout. These are not unreasonable assumptions.

1/2 missed a couple of kicks too. So maybe a 50% chance of handing possession to the ozzies via a penalty, against a 30% probability via a line out.

Furthermore, if 1/2 p did sink the 3 pts, then there would have been a restart, possibly with a further chance of ozzies winning the ball near our 22.

So on balance I agree with Sam's call in this case.

Yes, Australia would have had the restart, but we'd have been six points ahead rather than three, meaning any try would have needed to be converted for them to win. I was amazed we didn't opt for the kick at goal.

i reckon jamie roberts is looking pretty one dimentional these days. phillips is clearly too slow and we're not benefiting from his power. preistlands has the worst case of second season syndrome ever.

ryan jones is the natural leader for wales, takes the team forward with his leadership, his determination and his exceptional skill levels. halfpenny is our best full back and probably one of our better wingers too. the third choice front rowers (jarvis, lee, bevinton, andrews, et al) played as well as the most seasoned players. give them the 6 nations.

Leigh Halfpenny is not a full back.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Yes, Australia would have had the restart, but we'd have been six points ahead rather than three, meaning any try would have needed to be converted for them to win. I was amazed we didn't opt for the kick at goal.

True - it could be argued either way.

Three points is such a slender lead, though. Surely you'd go for the points, especially when your opponents keep sneaking the win against you.

It's done now, anyway. As for this article, I agree that our gameplan is deeply predictable, although we did play some football against the Wallabies on Saturday and we bypassed Jamie Roberts quite a bit. Then in the last 15 minutes or so, we reverted to kicking the ball long and infield.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Leigh Halfpenny is not a full back.

Given that Gatland refuses to play Hook as outside half, maybe Halfpenny could move to 10???

If we persist with kick & chase then at least the opposition will be running it from 20m farther away!

Just want to make a quick point that I hadn't realised until pointed out to me...

Against Aus we were missing no less than 12 players who probably wouldve started ahead of those who did, and during the 2nd half we were missing 14 players including being reduced to our 4th choice TH, and 5th choice lock, not to mention 4th choice BS.

The pack had lost...

Jones, Mitchell, Jarvis
Hibbard
James
AWJ, Davies, Evans, Then Charteris
Lydiate, Mccusker, Turnbull

Thats Warburton and Falatau away from our first choice pack, not to mention 2nd and 3rd choices out behind the first choices.

Kind of puts the slugfest against Australia into a slightly better perspective.

Question to Welsh supporters.

Do you not think too many players are too secure in their positions, hence their performances have fallen flat a bit.

If there are more compeition for places these guys will have to step up more?

Take Liam Williams as an example. Even if North or Cuthbert are both fit, what is wrong with selecting Williams instead, this way he pushes them for a place and both north and cuthbert has to step up.

Same with Priestland, bu continuing his selection even though he is not performing is not good, because he feels secure in his position, wereas if he is dropped for let's say the six nations next year, or demoted to the bench, he will then have to up his game.

Same with Warburton, Is Tipuric (spelling) not a better option to get Warburton to step up.

Same with Faletau etc.

For me going forward in to the 6 Nations I would like to see this side (players in brackets backing up, coming through during the Lions tour and onwards to 2015)

James (Jenkins Gill Bevington)
Owens (Hibbard Rees Myhill)
Jones (Andrews Lee Mitchell)
Evans (Davies Reed)
Charteris (AWJ ????)
Lydiate (Shingler Evans)
Faletau (Jones ?????)
Warburton (Tipuric ?????)

G Davies (Phillips Webb Rees Evans)
Biggar (Hook Tovey Morgan Priestland Patchell)

North
JD (Beck Hughes Roberts Henson)
Sc Williams
Halfpenny (Cuthbert)

Li Williams (Prydie Halfpenny Byrne)

Biltong wrote:Question to Welsh supporters.

Do you not think too many players are too secure in their positions, hence their performances have fallen flat a bit.

If there are more compeition for places these guys will have to step up more?

Take Liam Williams as an example. Even if North or Cuthbert are both fit, what is wrong with selecting Williams instead, this way he pushes them for a place and both north and cuthbert has to step up.

Same with Priestland, bu continuing his selection even though he is not performing is not good, because he feels secure in his position, wereas if he is dropped for let's say the six nations next year, or demoted to the bench, he will then have to up his game.

Same with Warburton, Is Tipuric (spelling) not a better option to get Warburton to step up.

Same with Faletau etc.

Agree totally. It's the difference between a management team that is content with limited success and one that is always striving to get better. Nobody is safe in the ABs team. Look at the fantastic players that have been dropped over the years.

Biltong, it's a problem I thought we'd seen the back of. A few seasons ago, players like Jonathan Thomas and Huw Bennett kept getting selected even though they were playing poorly. Toby Faletau only won his first cap in a World Cup warm-up match against England, a season after he'd been voted Magners League young player of the season, and it's just good fortune that Huw Bennett finally came good at the World Cup. The problem is that if the other candidates aren't playing well either, what do you do?

I don't Faletau was a sbad as people are making out but he has struggled with an out of form Warburton playing and Lydiate not playing.

That said I do think dropping a player is no bad thing if it gives the nthe kick up the backside they need.

As for Ryan Jones as captain I have always said he plays better without the added burden of the captaincy.

Biltong wrote:Question to Welsh supporters.

Do you not think too many players are too secure in their positions, hence their performances have fallen flat a bit.

If there are more compeition for places these guys will have to step up more?

Take Liam Williams as an example. Even if North or Cuthbert are both fit, what is wrong with selecting Williams instead, this way he pushes them for a place and both north and cuthbert has to step up.

Same with Priestland, bu continuing his selection even though he is not performing is not good, because he feels secure in his position, wereas if he is dropped for let's say the six nations next year, or demoted to the bench, he will then have to up his game.

Same with Warburton, Is Tipuric (spelling) not a better option to get Warburton to step up.

Same with Faletau etc.

With the Gatland Gameplan I don't think it makes much of a difference. We might have potential game-changing talent in the squad but we'll never know because we play such a dismal, regimented, limited style of rugby. Three or four monster forwards and a 10 with a siege gun boot are the only things that would improve our kick & chase game.

Casartelli wrote:

Biltong wrote:Question to Welsh supporters.

Do you not think too many players are too secure in their positions, hence their performances have fallen flat a bit.

If there are more compeition for places these guys will have to step up more?

Take Liam Williams as an example. Even if North or Cuthbert are both fit, what is wrong with selecting Williams instead, this way he pushes them for a place and both north and cuthbert has to step up.

Same with Priestland, bu continuing his selection even though he is not performing is not good, because he feels secure in his position, wereas if he is dropped for let's say the six nations next year, or demoted to the bench, he will then have to up his game.

Same with Warburton, Is Tipuric (spelling) not a better option to get Warburton to step up.

Same with Faletau etc.

With the Gatland Gameplan I don't think it makes much of a difference. We might have potential game-changing talent in the squad but we'll never know because we play such a dismal, regimented, limited style of rugby. Three or four monster forwards and a 10 with a siege gun boot are the only things that would improve our kick & chase game.

I am not so sure.

Think about it this way. When north came onto the scene he has been brilliant, he ran better lines, had more success at finishing, Cuthbert the same.

You can take any player to a degree and assess where the difference between scoring tries, hitting lines, hittng rucks etc. Now Priestland is a prime example as everyone I know is fedup with his form.

How much worse can let's say Biggar be?

From what I have seen in the little time before his injury, he is certainly not worse than Priestland.

Drop him, that sends a message.

If replacing a player for the short term is only serving one purpose and that is to make him up his game, whilst you are providing experience to another, then it is worth it.

Remember, for now every coach wants to build a squad of 30, he is doing the team a disservice by not forcing his players to step up, and reducing the opportunities to expose someone new, by having the same out of form player to play.

You just have to look at the four years with PDV, to know exactly what it cost the Boks.

Biltong

I get what your saying but when a team has 14 first team injuries your kinda just trying to feild a team, with as much experience as you can!!!

IMHO Warburton and Roberts were both being outplayed regularly by Navidi and Evans at the Blues, but are they Welsh internationals? Probably not!!

You need the competition to come through to be considered, right now there is noone to challenge Falatau in the 8 position, Jones is far better suited to BS or 20 minutes at 8, Pretorious (despite not being welsh) is god awfull, JT at the Ospreys isn't an 8, I'd say Falatau's greatest threats are Powell, Delve and Lewis Evans... slim pickings!!!

Biltong I agree with you. The likes of Roberts must feel they are undroppable and are resting on their laurels. Consistency of selection is generally a good thing obviously but it's gone way too far under this management team. It seems can play poorly for 12 months and keep your place based on reputation and past performances - unless you move to France or England when you may or may not get cast aside depending on how much the management team like you (contrast e.g. Phillips or Jenkins with Byrne, Peel etc). Our current injuries and lack of depth don't help but some of this autumn's selections/non-selections were ridiculous.

Priestland is a different case. He is a liability now regardless of tactics.

But to take North and Cuthbert as examples. For all their limitations, Cuthbert especially, they are proven, pacy, ball-in-hand runners. But we never, ever, try and get them running one on one against their (invariably much smaller) opposite numbers. We bring them down the middle into heavy traffic where they collide with backrowers the same size as they are!

The rest of the time they chase kicks.

JD2 is another good example. He has a brilliant outside swerve - almost always makes ground and can cut open even the best defences.

He's lucky if we throw him one pass a game. He has to live off scraps.

And chase kicks.

But again who is fit, ready and raring to go to replace RP???

Biggar is still untried and untested over more than a few minutes here and there, Hook could win the HC single handedly for Perp and still sit on the bench to cover FB, Tovey has to play for the Blues before Wales...

There is nothing around!!!

Look, I understand that at times injuries play a huge part. So obviously other circumstances must be taken in consideration.

Bt by the same token, if there is an excuse every time you won't progress.

I will give you an example of Morne Steyn, he was picked for the first 6 tests of this year, based purely on reputation of his kicking ability despite having very poor form during the Super rugby season.

What happened?

In the six test he played he misses half his kicks.

In the test series against england, we missed something like 28 points in three tests.

In the rugby Championship, we drew against Argentina, we lost against Australia in australia and was very close to beating NZ in NZ was it once again not for Steyn.

Four results could have gone diffenently if Meyer selected anyone of three other possible flyhalves.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Biltong

I get what your saying but when a team has 14 first team injuries your kinda just trying to feild a team, with as much experience as you can!!!

IMHO Warburton and Roberts were both being outplayed regularly by Navidi and Evans at the Blues, but are they Welsh internationals? Probably not!!

You need the competition to come through to be considered, right now there is noone to challenge Falatau in the 8 position, Jones is far better suited to BS or 20 minutes at 8, Pretorious (despite not being welsh) is god awfull, JT at the Ospreys isn't an 8, I'd say Falatau's greatest threats are Powell, Delve and Lewis Evans... slim pickings!!!

But in some cases there is competition - eg Biggar/Hook vs. RP. In the case Biltong mentioned, why not Liam W instead of Cuthbert? He saved a certain try with a man-and-ball tackle Cuthbert could never have made.

Biltong

Thats the problem with if's and but's, if Steyn had been replaced you may have won those games, if he had been replaced you may have lost those games and lost others too!! Theres no way of telling what impact a young inexperienced 10 has on his back row, pack mentality and 12's ability to do his job. It is an if and but only!!

Samurai

I'd have Williams over Cuthbert right now anyway, especially against the bigger teams, Cuthbert might be an impact man off the bench when thigs are going well and we can keep ball in hand, but when your on your own try line and defending for your life he is a liability, and therefore not ready for international rugby, you might as well have had Tom James this series, he has more bottle and works harder!!

Cuthberts defence is still very questionable so again I don't see anything wrong with dropping him if there is someone like Williams waiting on the sidelines.

When Ryan Jones was captain I always thought his body language was all wrong - he always seemed so flat and downbeat.

I agree that if we're picking wingers based on their defensive ability, then Cuthbert is going to struggle to make the squad.

Although he did manage to bring down Savea by hurling himself like a human boomerang.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Biltong

Thats the problem with if's and but's, if Steyn had been replaced you may have won those games, if he had been replaced you may have lost those games and lost others too!! Theres no way of telling what impact a young inexperienced 10 has on his back row, pack mentality and 12's ability to do his job. It is an if and but only!!

Samurai

I'd have Williams over Cuthbert right now anyway, especially against the bigger teams, Cuthbert might be an impact man off the bench when thigs are going well and we can keep ball in hand, but when your on your own try line and defending for your life he is a liability, and therefore not ready for international rugby, you might as well have had Tom James this series, he has more bottle and works harder!!

Yes, ifs and buts, the reality is we would not have been worse off though.

Probably not, he looked a little like RP's dad at times But IMHO your not that much better off with Lambie, I notice all the mega hype has dulled a little now he is getting gametime.

Like I said about a year and a half ago, he looks polished and talented but is overhyped with the likes of Matthew Morgan (notice how he isn't a superstar now he is getting Ospreys gametime)

I actually disagree with you, in the conditions he played there wasn't much more he could do, by the time he was allowed to play attacking rugby it was in the worst conditions at Twickenham.

He should have played on the dry tracks in the SH, remember he was injured half the season and had but 2 games of flyhalf at currie cup before he eventually got selected at 10.

Next year he will play 10 the whole season and then things will work out much better for him.

Going back to the original article - the selection of four big men in the backline, with the RP-MP axis at halfback dictates the tactics. I think Wales have been outmuscled for so long, now that we've got big beasts of our own there's a tendency to play them at all costs.

The other thing I wonder about is the effect on morale / harmony in the squad when there are players who can't seem to get themselves dropped and others who can't get a game.

The players themselves know all about rugby talent, who has it in spades and who is just average.What is the effect on them to see some players being cast out / never tried while others are untouchable?

my 6n 1stXV.
not sure about the front row. tempted to create a fresh unit from some of the young guns weve had to test this autumn
2nd row. chartris and evans.
br. lydiate. warburton. ryanjones(c).
any on-form traditional scrum half.
hook.
center. jd2 and scott williams.
wings. north. halfpenny
fb henson


edit. ok, not totaly serious about henson.

dogtooth wrote:my 6n 1stXV.
not sure about the front row. tempted to create a fresh unit from some of the young guns weve had to test this autumn
2nd row. chartris and evans.
br. lydiate. warburton. ryanjones(c).
any on-form traditional scrum half.
hook.
center. jd2 and scott williams.
wings. north. halfpenny
fb henson


edit. ok, not totaly serious about henson.

FB = Liam. Yes, he'll drop a few balls, but he's got the hwyl, sadly lacking elsewhere.

Bilt

I have no doubt he'll get better, and when he gets the chance to attack he'll show a little more, but he has been magnanamous by his averageness (if that makes sense) I think he's been very carefull with what he's done.

The Super games Ive seen him play have been a little average too, how old is he now 20?

He is 22.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB7qXVT5f5Y

22 already???

A tribute video??? And a poor one at that? Hardly shows his season as a true representation does it?

I'm not knocking him, just that a year or 2 ago he was dubbed the next big thing in world rugby, and since he's got his shot he has been consistent if not a bit carefull.

WOW 22 I am amazed he is that old already, I still think of him as a kid!

First choice front row should be James, Hibbard, Adam J.

In the queue behind Adam I'd currently have Scott Andrews before Mitchell, although maybe we'll see whether it was a flash in the pan.

It's very difficult to leave out two of Roberts, Scott W, JD2, North, Cuthbert, 1/2p and Liam W. I think the one I'd leave out of my 22 or whatever it is now would be Roberts on current form.