Champions League Draw for Last 16

First topic message reminder :

Galatasaray v Schalke

Celtic v Juventus

Arsenal v Bayern Munich

Shakhtar Donetsk v Borussia Dortmund

AC Milan v Barcelona

Real Madrid v Manchester United

Valencia v Paris St Germain

Porto v Malaga

I'm not going to say the Ref was good. But to suggest he favoured Real unduly is a bit immature really

I'm sorry, but that is a red card. I don't understand why that is any different to the kung fu kick from De Jong in the World Cup final which was almost universally considered a red card.

Sorry Keano on ITV, wrong mate, much more sense from Southgate and Dixon.

Roy Keane shut up you Kumquat

By the way, I assume Mourinho got the early handshake in before walking off.

Yes Mourinho shook hands. Sense from Roy Keane.

Any wonder the rest of the world don't like us when we react to every loss like a conspiracy?

In some ways Ferguson is also a little lucky as that decision will hide his odd decision to leave out Rooney, who I wouldn't be surprised to see leave at the end of the season. I'm not Rooney's biggest fan, but he's clearly one of United's biggest and best players and his attitude is just what is needed in a big knock out match like this.

Crimey wrote:In some ways Ferguson is also a little lucky as that decision will hide his odd decision to leave out Rooney, who I wouldn't be surprised to see leave at the end of the season. I'm not Rooney's biggest fan, but he's clearly one of United's biggest and best players and his attitude is just what is needed in a big knock out match like this.

he was crap when he came on though?

For me it wasn't a red, yellow would of been fine. Spoilt the game, shame for those that spent the money to get there.

nathan wrote:

Crimey wrote:In some ways Ferguson is also a little lucky as that decision will hide his odd decision to leave out Rooney, who I wouldn't be surprised to see leave at the end of the season. I'm not Rooney's biggest fan, but he's clearly one of United's biggest and best players and his attitude is just what is needed in a big knock out match like this.

he was crap when he came on though?

For me it wasn't a red, yellow would of been fine. Spoilt the game, shame for those that spent the money to get there.

It's hard for most players to make a massive impact coming on with 20 minutes to go, in a team with 10 men...

Crimey wrote:In some ways Ferguson is also a little lucky as that decision will hide his odd decision to leave out Rooney, who I wouldn't be surprised to see leave at the end of the season. I'm not Rooney's biggest fan, but he's clearly one of United's biggest and best players and his attitude is just what is needed in a big knock out match like this.

Sorry I don't agree. I thought Utd were on top most of the game and Rooney wasn't necessary. I don't think he's at full fitness at the moment.

The Special Juan wrote:

Crimey wrote:In some ways Ferguson is also a little lucky as that decision will hide his odd decision to leave out Rooney, who I wouldn't be surprised to see leave at the end of the season. I'm not Rooney's biggest fan, but he's clearly one of United's biggest and best players and his attitude is just what is needed in a big knock out match like this.

Sorry I don't agree. I thought Utd were on top most of the game and Rooney wasn't necessary. I don't think he's at full fitness at the moment.

For me, he could easily have offered as much as Nani or Welbeck.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:I'm picking:

Schalke
Juventus
Bayern Munich
Borussia Dortmund
Barcelona
Real Madrid
Valencia
Malaga

2/8 right, come on the other 6

Crimey wrote:

nathan wrote:

Crimey wrote:In some ways Ferguson is also a little lucky as that decision will hide his odd decision to leave out Rooney, who I wouldn't be surprised to see leave at the end of the season. I'm not Rooney's biggest fan, but he's clearly one of United's biggest and best players and his attitude is just what is needed in a big knock out match like this.

he was crap when he came on though?

For me it wasn't a red, yellow would of been fine. Spoilt the game, shame for those that spent the money to get there.

It's hard for most players to make a massive impact coming on with 20 minutes to go, in a team with 10 men...

really, i would of thought they would made a bigger impact playing against players who ran their hearts out for 70 minutes....

Haha dangerous play my arse. Surely when Lopez came out to punch the ball, missed, punched Vidic in the head is dangerous play also?

Because that is exactly what Nani has done. Gone for the ball with his leg up to control it and Arbeloa has come in from nowhere. Are players now meant to not try and pluck a ball out of the air in fear of someone coming in unnoticed?

Common sense please.

My first reaction was that it was a harsh red card and wholly unwarranted but after seeing the replays there is the argument for it being so. It could have gone either way looking at it retrospectively.

Lets not assume that Utd would have progressed even had Nani stayed on the field. Madrid had all of the ball and were constantly probing. It was by no means a forgone conclusion.

Exactly. United still had over 30 minutes to play vs Ronaldo, Higuain, Ozil, Modric, Kaka et al

If you look closely Nani's foot gets caught in the real players shirt and makes no contact with the guy. Is it dangerous to make contact with the the shirt?

There is no point arguing that if the rules are followed to the letter nani can be sent off for that challenge whether he has intent or not. When are the rules ever followed properly? If they were followed strictly there would be a penalty at every set piece for shirt pulling.

I wonder if the ref has a cheque from Singapore in the post?

i cant stay mad at this ref

Same guy cherries?

yep laugh out loud

Olly wrote:Haha dangerous play my arse. Surely when Lopez came out to punch the ball, missed, punched Vidic in the head is dangerous play also?

Because that is exactly what Nani has done. Gone for the ball with his leg up to control it and Arbeloa has come in from nowhere. Are players now meant to not try and pluck a ball out of the air in fear of someone coming in unnoticed?

Common sense please.

Excellent post. No one was screaming for Lopez to be sent off because his intention obviously wasn't to lay out Vidic. However ,unlike Nani, he did at least know he was there. Shocker of a decision. Has to be said United had looked incredibly comfortable until that point, over both legs.

Crimey wrote:

The Special Juan wrote:

Crimey wrote:In some ways Ferguson is also a little lucky as that decision will hide his odd decision to leave out Rooney, who I wouldn't be surprised to see leave at the end of the season. I'm not Rooney's biggest fan, but he's clearly one of United's biggest and best players and his attitude is just what is needed in a big knock out match like this.

Sorry I don't agree. I thought Utd were on top most of the game and Rooney wasn't necessary. I don't think he's at full fitness at the moment.

For me, he could easily have offered as much as Nani or Welbeck.

I scoffed at the starting line up when I seen it but once the game had started I had no problems with it. If Rooney were to have started I would have had the same formation and brought him in in place of RVP. Nani looked lively running in behind defenders and Welbeck has pace to burn and was arguably our best player in that first half.

On the whole I'm not too disappointed. Lads can hold their heads up high. I understand what they're saying about dangerous play and blah blah blah but I still think it was a harsh red, no complaints it was a foul or even a booking. He's missed the ball, their keeper done exactly the same and punched vidic in the face.

Hope Madrid go on and win it now. ronnie deserves to have more that one Champions League medal so hopefully this will be his year and then he go on and reclaim the Ballon D'or from that dwarf at Barcelona

Born Slippy wrote:

Olly wrote:Haha dangerous play my arse. Surely when Lopez came out to punch the ball, missed, punched Vidic in the head is dangerous play also?

Because that is exactly what Nani has done. Gone for the ball with his leg up to control it and Arbeloa has come in from nowhere. Are players now meant to not try and pluck a ball out of the air in fear of someone coming in unnoticed?

Common sense please.

Excellent post. No one was screaming for Lopez to be sent off because his intention obviously wasn't to lay out Vidic. However ,unlike Nani, he did at least know he was there. Shocker of a decision. Has to be said United had looked incredibly comfortable until that point, over both legs.

Ha I've just posted the same thing Olly, didn't realize you'd brought it up

cherriesfna wrote:yep laugh out loud

I'm with you then

One last thing before I go:

West Ham better watch out on Sunday.

If you're wondering why the PL isn't the force it was, £110m worth of PL talent just dumped United out.

The games not on (thankfully!) They come to Upton Park midweek at some point (will be arranged sooner now this is done with) and I've got tickets. If they rearrange this to when im in New York I'll be gutted, though i'll get over it pretty quick when I get there!

Common sense never prevails in Europe. Yellow card in England (although watch West Ham v Everton from earlier this season where Cole and Gibson were sent off for lesser offences). Keeper and Ramos should both have been sent off by this ref's logic. Theres some danger, but theres always some blooming danger. My mate dislocated his knee missing the ball going for a volley last night, I didnt get sent off cos I cleared it to him

The referee managed to ruin a very good tie. He made mistakes throughout the game at the detriment to both sides.

Lopez punched Vidic clean in the face, nowhere near the ball.

the Nani challenge was barely a yellow and there were around 5 similar challenges from either side throughout the game which went unpunished.

Rafael handled the ball on the line and could have been sent off.

Ramos clearly fouled Welbeck in the area.

Now one or two of these decisions could have been excused but to have made so many mistakes is just yet another example of a referee ruining a game of football. It's happening too many times now. With regards the comment above about Cole and Gibson were they not both recinded? So yes they didn't have to have their players band but a game that people had paid hard earned money was ruined. Now this is one thing in the Premiership but with even more assistants in the Champions League they are running out of excuses.

I actually thought both sides were fairly restrained at the end of the game considering the adrenelin that would have been pumping. Both teams reacted well to one another, shaking hands and being sporting.

Just a word for Ronaldo and Mourinho as well, I thought they oozed class today with their comments and actions.

Brilliant from nearly everyone involved. The ref and his assistant, the goal keeper for his rolling around and RVP for having a nightmare where the exceptions.

I hope Real go on to win but I fancy Dortmund to do it.

The ref ruined the match. It was a yellow if anything but not red. The game was fair up to then 11 v 11 but that decision just wrecked a good tie. Real were still in it.

Roy Keane is a.........

How the 5th official missed that Rafael handball is beyond me

At the end of the day poor finishing cost us, taking routine chances we would have scored 5 over 2 legs.

I don't like blaming referees for results but I've got to say we would have won if he wasnt a complete and utter idiot.

People will say about rafael a hand ball but it was after the nani card, no one in the ground saw it and khedira had a hand ball also.

Just gutted, a huge huge tie with 75000 in the crowd and an apparent 200 million watching on tv and some idiot in blue ruins it.

Gutted, like everyone else in the ground was.

Olly wrote:How the 5th official missed that Rafael handball is beyond me

To be fair Olly no one in the ground saw tt and there was no appeal from anyone.

I think it extremely harsh to be saying ukited got lucky with this incident which did not effect the outcome of the game.

Indeed those two reds were rescinded, but not before we went on to lose a game we were playing very well in that was level at the time. Gibson got sent off in the last few mins if I remember correctly. Both teams booed the ref sending Cole and Gibson off I believe and a lot of Everton players were very obviously bemused when Cole went. Standards of reffing are ruined by awful lawmakers who do nothing to read the game and punish refs for using common sense

Man City fans should be gutted because you won't get a sniff of the league now.

Agreed Ent. RVP missed a couple of sitters in the first leg. Welbeck should have scored tonight.

It was by no means certain that united would have gone through but everyone has been cheated of seeing how it would have turned out.

chris.wilkerson13 wrote:Indeed those two reds were rescinded, but not before we went on to lose a game we were playing very well in that was level at the time. Gibson got sent off in the last few mins if I remember correctly. Both teams booed the ref sending Cole and Gibson off I believe and a lot of Everton players were very obviously bemused when Cole went. Standards of reffing are ruined by awful lawmakers who do nothing to read the game and punish refs for using common sense

Head height when they could see the players, bad decisions but lets not compare it to a cl knock out for where a guys trying to control a ball coming over his shoulder.

spencerclarke wrote:Agreed Ent. RVP missed a couple of sitters in the first leg. Welbeck should have scored tonight.

It was by no means certain that united would have gone through but everyone has been cheated of seeing how it would have turned out.

I think we were handling Madrid fairly easily and if I'm honest thought we were more likely to score again.

Fergies tactics and team selection over 2
Legs were brilliant, completely nullified Ronaldo and alonso for an hour with 11 men.

Just so annoying, draws open and think we had a great chance of winning the competition.

That's the last of the bus parkers out the champions league..

Ent wrote:

chris.wilkerson13 wrote:Indeed those two reds were rescinded, but not before we went on to lose a game we were playing very well in that was level at the time. Gibson got sent off in the last few mins if I remember correctly. Both teams booed the ref sending Cole and Gibson off I believe and a lot of Everton players were very obviously bemused when Cole went. Standards of reffing are ruined by awful lawmakers who do nothing to read the game and punish refs for using common sense

Head height when they could see the players, bad decisions but lets not compare it to a cl knock out for where a guys trying to control a ball coming over his shoulder.

Cole definitely hits baines in the stomach (Baines got up and won a lot of respect from me), both were trying to control a ball, none had any intent, it being a Champions League game matters very little too as I am talking about rules across football.

I actually felt sorry for Utd tonight as thought they well in control of the game upto the sending off .

It is a decision that could of been a yellow card , but also if it had been say Ramos on RvP every Utd fan would of been screaming for a red card .

I hope Arsenal can turn there tie around , as having no English team in the next round isnt good for our game .

Kenny wrote:I actually felt sorry for Utd tonight as thought they well in control of the game upto the sending off .

It is a decision that could of been a yellow card , but also if it had been say Ramos on RvP every Utd fan would of been screaming for a red card .

I hope Arsenal can turn there tie around , as having no English team in the next round isnt good for our game .

Only if they were retarded and when would ramps be taking a ball over his shoulder?

chris.wilkerson13 wrote:

Ent wrote:

chris.wilkerson13 wrote:Indeed those two reds were rescinded, but not before we went on to lose a game we were playing very well in that was level at the time. Gibson got sent off in the last few mins if I remember correctly. Both teams booed the ref sending Cole and Gibson off I believe and a lot of Everton players were very obviously bemused when Cole went. Standards of reffing are ruined by awful lawmakers who do nothing to read the game and punish refs for using common sense

Head height when they could see the players, bad decisions but lets not compare it to a cl knock out for where a guys trying to control a ball coming over his shoulder.

Cole definitely hits baines in the stomach (Baines got up and won a lot of respect from me), both were trying to control a ball, none had any intent, it being a Champions League game matters very little too as I am talking about rules across football.

Cole could see him coming across and it was much more dangerous, lets not compare - different situations, cole lucky to get his rescinded.

Sorry thats nonsense, his eyes were on the ball 100% of the time. Watch it again tomorrow when you aren't wound up about Nani

I'm not wound up about it, already stated bad finishing cost us.

Watched it again to remind myself, it's harsh but he can see him coming across and is late, nothing like a ballcokingnover the shoulder.

At the end of the day tonight was an absolutely shocking decision where you could understand the cole one even of it was harsh.

Its only a slightly different trajectory. He definitely doesnt see him cos hes eyes are transfixed. They are remarkably similar, both of which are fouls with uncontrolled legs. Its both or none for me, which is exactly the reasoning Gibson got sent off even though it was nonsense too, ref had to do it. By the logic of those reds then Nani's is a red, and I get Roy Keane's point about not jumping leg out if you dont have awareness of your surroundings, but it almost felt like Roy was "trolling" - his point made some sense but he must have known he was being an awkward git. Its a yellow all day for me, basically as a warning/discouragement more than a punishment.

Do I think United would have won the game? Hard to tell but I dont think they would have lost and the spectacle that it was, gripping and varied in many skills of the game, was ruined by overzealous Europeans refs who are scared of the the men in power and restricted by their illogical law books.

People will harp on about how this proves the English game lacks strength. That would be a complete nonsense, United showed character and ability in depth of their squad. I love the progression of Rafael, a years time his defensive sense will stop that goal too

The English game does lack strength. The standard of defending has gone down the toilet and the PL has been surpassed.

Nothing rafael could have done about the goal, vidic is out of position initially and fails to block the cross.

You are also talking nonsense about the cards.

Anyway it's late, night.

chris.wilkerson13 wrote:People will harp on about how this proves the English game lacks strength. That would be a complete nonsense, United showed character and ability in depth of their squad.

I love how the English game is judged off the back of a couple of teams European performances

The truth is they are only judged in the negative because the depth of performances has been so amazing over the last 10 years,

when this happens is like!!! wtf!

but lets not suggest this hasnt happened to the other leagues! it certainly has- yet they havent got the same depth record as the PL has!

Englands been dropping for a few years now. Chelseas CL victory, probably one of the luckiest in history, where they were visibly inferior to every opponent doesn't mask this.