Ulster v Scarlets Friday 4/1/2013 match thread

[neilthom7]

First topic message reminder :

So this Friday 4/1/2013 Ulster take on Scarlets at Ravenhill. Kick off is at 7:05pm.
Ulster are coming off their first league loss of the season away to Munster albeit with a significantly weakened team. I think here we can expect to see a very different looking Ulster team especially with on this game to go before the crucial Heineken Cup final round matches.
The Scarlets are coming off a heavy boxing day away defeat to Ospreys as well and will be looking to close the gap and build momentum into their own Heineken cup ties.
Should be a cracking match with a rivalry that has really developed in the past few seasons I can't wait.
BBC 2 NI are covering th match any other broadcasters I come across will be added as will teams as the week goes on.

Ulster XV
(15-9): A D’Arcy, A Trimble, D Cave, L Marshall, C Gilroy; P Jackson, R Pienaar;
(1-8): T Court, R Herring, A Macklin, L Stevenson, D Tuohy, R Diack, C Henry c, N Williams;
Replacements (16-23): N Annett, C Black, J Afoa, N McComb, R Wilson, M Heaney, P Wallace, R Andrew.

Scarlets : Dan Newton, George North, Gareth Maule, Jonathan Davies (capt), Kristian Phillips, Aled Thomas, Tavis Knoyle, Phil John, Emyr Phillips, Jacobie Adriaanse, Sione Timani, Richard Kelly, Josh Turnbull, Johnathan Edwards, Rob McCusker.

Replacements: Kirby Myhill, Rhodri Jones, Deacon Manu, Tomas Vallejos, Craig Price, Gareth Davies, Scott Williams, Adam Warren.

Referee: Leighton Hodges (WRU)

Assistant Referees: Sean Gallagher, Brian MacNeice (both IRFU)

Citing Commissioner: Gordon Black (IRFU)

TMO: Marshall Kilgore (IRFU

[Cari]

Bonus points for both Irish teams tonight. Ulster vs Leinster in Ravenhill at the end of the season?

It's a date

Don't write off the Ospreys lads. They've robbed Leinster twice at the RDS in the P-12 final...

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Well, another superbly accurate prediction from the Big Book of Alfonso. I'm like a Greek oracle, I tells ya...

While Pienaar undoubtedly shepherds Jackson along, it's worth bearing in mind that three of tho tries came with service from Heaney. The misdirection and pop passes for Trimble's try came from Jackson amd Cave. A smart, well executed move that showed how accurate and intelligent a player Jackson can be.

Don't mean to be condescending but it was basically a switch with an inside pass. Leinster did it I'd say 6 times against Embra last night, there are examples of Jackson being smart and accurate but that really isn't one of them

[Standulstermen]

North has tweeted he is ok and it was more precautionary than anything.

Pete

You could say something similar about BOD's try against cardiff at the aviva last year. One inside ball and then a support runner. Its still a good move beautifully executed.

[Glas a du]

My favourite bit of the match?

Aled Thomas clears to touch in the second half. A vocal set of Ulster fans pipe up:

"Thut didunt gut vurry furr..."

[Cari]

His name is Andrew Trimble
He's very quick and nimble
La la la la...ooh! La la la la

I can't wait to get to Ravenhill and start singing next weekend.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

North has tweeted he is ok and it was more precautionary than anything.

Pete

You could say something similar about BOD's try against cardiff at the aviva last year. One inside ball and then a support runner. Its still a good move beautifully executed.

I see what you are saying but there are completely different levels of invention.

Switch then inside pass (Trimble's line was insanely good!)

or

Ball to forward then screen behind primary ball carrying option (O'Brien coming like a train) to Sexton who has multi options in Fitz inside, BOD coming from out to in or a secondary screen option to Darcy with Kearney and Isa deep and wide.

They are very different in terms of level of thinking

[neilthom7]

I will give you the Leinster was a little more complex in that there were other options as well as you have pointed out but in terms of the actual option chosen I would agree with Stand

[neilthom7]

I mean when you break it down the move as you did to Trimbles it was basically a pass to an inside runner then a pass before the tackle to a support runner. What I a saying is they are both equally nice tries and rugby is a simple sport when played properly and some of the most beautiful tries have great basics at their core

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

"10-12-14 move; your most basic move" -Shane Horgan on the first try scored by Cardiff against Munster this evenin

[toml]

Jackson- poor first 30 but improved massively. Still doesn't look quite right

I'm still unconvinced I think Pienaar is carrying him a fair bit. If he didn't have him inside him I'd be interested in how he'd fare against good teams.

PJ has been getting a hard time after the last couple of games. He looked totally off the ball against Leinster and Northampton 2, but games like Northampton 1 showed he can be a class act. The consistency will come, he plays best when playing flat and drawing the defence but after getting a knock on his leg seemed to be sitting deeper.

Have to remember as well that he is 21. Sexton came in to the 'proper' leinster side in 2009 at the grand old age of 24. Madigan is also 3 years older than him.

I do hope Madigan gets the bench spot for the 6N. He a great attacking player - prob not for Kidders then!

[Notch]

"10-12-14 move; your most basic move" -Shane Horgan on the first try scored by Cardiff against Munster this evenin

It just looks complex because we've been watching the Irish national side- more of a backs move than we've ever seen under Kidney!

It was a good move, great angles being run by Cave and Trimble. Simple and beautiful.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Jackson- poor first 30 but improved massively. Still doesn't look quite right

I'm still unconvinced I think Pienaar is carrying him a fair bit. If he didn't have him inside him I'd be interested in how he'd fare against good teams.

PJ has been getting a hard time after the last couple of games. He looked totally off the ball against Leinster and Northampton 2, but games like Northampton 1 showed he can be a class act. The consistency will come, he plays best when playing flat and drawing the defence but after getting a knock on his leg seemed to be sitting deeper.

Have to remember as well that he is 21. Sexton came in to the 'proper' leinster side in 2009 at the grand old age of 24. Madigan is also 3 years older than him.

I do hope Madigan gets the bench spot for the 6N. He a great attacking player - prob not for Kidders then!

Yeah and Shane Horgan saying that Jackson should give way to make room for Marshall at 9 was utter silliness.
Jackson is sol lucky he has that safety net of Pienaar, it means he gets to play top rugby every week and is gaining so much experience.

[Notch]

Jackson is still a better 10- right now- than Marshall is a 9. And Pienaar is a better 9 than 10.

[The Great Aukster]

Jackson is still a better 10- right now- than Marshall is a 9. And Pienaar is a better 9 than 10.

Not sure about the first bit. Marshall at his best has looked top class, but against Munster was poor. Jackson at his very best hasn't really looked Test class yet, and his worst (v Saints) hasn't been great, so I'd have them pretty much on par. The difference is Pienaar, whom I agree is a better 9 than 10, so RP/PJ is definitely better than PM/RP.

[Seagultaf]

Great performance from a very strong Ulster side, brave defence from the Scarlets who played far better than they did against the Ospreys. Ulster must be in line for silverwear this season, by far the best side in the Rabo.

The game as a contest though, was spoiled by weak and inept refereeing which significantly benefited the home side, and removed any chance of a fair contest. Don't get me wrong, Ulster are a better side which they proved on the night, but without competent referees the Rabo league is doomed to failiure.

[johnnymonaghan]

I think Shane Horgan was making the point that if Ulster are to win the H C this year then they need a top quality 10.

If that's our only goal maybe he has a point? Paddy has been hot and cold after all.....

I'm playing devils advocate on this one as I firmly believe playing paddy now is not just about trying to win this year but his and the teams ongoing development - and who better to teach you a thing or two than RP?

[rodders]

I think Paddy has been excellent this year. I thought he may be a weak link but hasn't. His goal kicking has fluctuated the odd time but overall he's been excellent in my opinion. Superb actually and will get better.

His form will dip at times being a young fella but we've Pienaar who can come in at 10 so other than the drop off in quality behind Pienaar and Jackson I'm not concerned about our fly half options at all.

[Glas a du]

so other than the drop off in quality behind Pienaar and Jackson I'm not concerned about our fly half options at all.

Really? oh OK, fair enough

[Don Alfonso]

Pete – I’ll hold my hands up and say that I was over-egging it with the “invention” comment. Fair cop – that move doesn’t show outrageous creativity, I know. But the context in which Shaggy was talking about the same move after the Munster game was that it’s ridiculous that it worked – it’s so simple that everyone should see it coming. The reason it did work against the Scarlets was the execution – a great line from Trimble, but Paddy played his part.

Paddy is growing up in public unlike any other Irish 10. He turned 21 at the weekend. What was O’Gara doing at twenty? Sexton? Keatley? Madigan? Developing. That’s all Paddy is doing, and he’s doing a fine job, as far as I’m concerned. There was a lot of hype around Jackson and, latterly, even more about Hanrahan. I don’t get to watch Munster B&I or AIL level games, but on Munsterfans it seems people are unimpressed with JJ at the moment. He’s 20! He’s finding his feet! And it’s the same for Jackson, but in a much, much more unforgiving glare.

People are complaining that Jackson’s form has dipped. It has (had?) a bit in the last few games. But if the game against Leinster is his worst yet, that’s absolutely fine. He was outplayed by Madigan, indeed, but the most bewildered and lost performance by an Irish ten this season I’ve seen was Madigan versus the Ospreys. And that includes ROG. And even NOC. It’s swings and roundabouts – form dips and rises. Jackson has the luxury of a great game-managing nine, Pienaar. Most of the time. But he’s done well when he’s been paired with Paul Marshall. Which would have included the first hour of the Castres HEC match, where we scored three tries and Paddy kicked 21 points.

Like Rodders, my main concern is back-up. I'd like to see Olding get some game time and leapfrog NOC.

[Kingshu]

To be honest, PJ I think is doing a fine job, I'd say he's is better than Ian Humph was last year and a bit more consistant than IHumph was.

So in that regards are 10 position is actually stronger than last year, and with Marshall coming on and Pienaar moving to 10 is a great back up.

We are a bit relaint on Pienaar for my liking. Marshall and Jackson is ok, but woun't overly worry other teams, and is there isn't enough depth.

For 2 positions we only really have 3 players of the standard required, where at this level you need 4. NoC is ok, but you wouldn't want him to have to step into a H-cup game so therefore I don't count him as up to the standard required, even Paddy Wallace at 10 for a H-cup game will make you nervous as he hasn't played there that much, and it wasn't his best position.

[rodders]

so other than the drop off in quality behind Pienaar and Jackson I'm not concerned about our fly half options at all.

Really? oh OK, fair enough

May Zeus strike me dead with a thunderbolt if that's not the truth Glas

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