Ulster v Scarlets Friday 4/1/2013 match thread

[neilthom7]

First topic message reminder :

So this Friday 4/1/2013 Ulster take on Scarlets at Ravenhill. Kick off is at 7:05pm.
Ulster are coming off their first league loss of the season away to Munster albeit with a significantly weakened team. I think here we can expect to see a very different looking Ulster team especially with on this game to go before the crucial Heineken Cup final round matches.
The Scarlets are coming off a heavy boxing day away defeat to Ospreys as well and will be looking to close the gap and build momentum into their own Heineken cup ties.
Should be a cracking match with a rivalry that has really developed in the past few seasons I can't wait.
BBC 2 NI are covering th match any other broadcasters I come across will be added as will teams as the week goes on.

Ulster XV
(15-9): A D’Arcy, A Trimble, D Cave, L Marshall, C Gilroy; P Jackson, R Pienaar;
(1-8): T Court, R Herring, A Macklin, L Stevenson, D Tuohy, R Diack, C Henry c, N Williams;
Replacements (16-23): N Annett, C Black, J Afoa, N McComb, R Wilson, M Heaney, P Wallace, R Andrew.

Scarlets : Dan Newton, George North, Gareth Maule, Jonathan Davies (capt), Kristian Phillips, Aled Thomas, Tavis Knoyle, Phil John, Emyr Phillips, Jacobie Adriaanse, Sione Timani, Richard Kelly, Josh Turnbull, Johnathan Edwards, Rob McCusker.

Replacements: Kirby Myhill, Rhodri Jones, Deacon Manu, Tomas Vallejos, Craig Price, Gareth Davies, Scott Williams, Adam Warren.

Referee: Leighton Hodges (WRU)

Assistant Referees: Sean Gallagher, Brian MacNeice (both IRFU)

Citing Commissioner: Gordon Black (IRFU)

TMO: Marshall Kilgore (IRFU

[Standulstermen]

Yeah I would expect Afoa to be straight in in we are in trouble at scrum time. Henderson needs the extended rest but Payne has a niggle I think and is the only worrying omission.

Anscombe must see something in Ricky Andrew that I just cannot.

Some good calls though with Marshall, Heaney and Annett all rewarded for last week.

[Glas a du]

I see your ropey prop and raise you Jedwards - a slow small open side who plays like a quick small open side and is a penalty machine...

[Standulstermen]

Just noticed Rory is rested too. Missing at least 6/7 first teamers to rest or injury. I would take a win, a good rest for some and move onto Glasgae!

[Don Alfonso]

I'm a bit concerned about this one, to be honest. More gametime for Herring, Adams Macklin and D'Arcy in the run-up to the HEC I understand - and if those guys have to come in, we'll be very glad they got some time on the pitch at this stage.

But is that team good enough to beat the Scarlets? I suppose Afoa is there in the bench. But the best way to beat the Scarlets is up-front. And we seem to have surrendered a fair bit of our advantage there.

I'd have gone with Wilson with no Muller. Leadership, experience and good at restarts, where we have started to struggle again recently.

It's a bit of a gamble. Relying on home advantage here.

[Notch]

It's interesting we've chosen to rest several key players. It's a shame; the front row of Court, Best and Afoa is the finest in the league and with those three in harness our scrum has dominated this season. Herring and Macklin are no real replacements, especially Macklin- do or die time for him. The way that trio went against Leinster in the scrum, ruck and maul would have been too much for Scarlets to live with. It's still going to be a well-drilled and formidable pack of forwards, but there are one or two world class players sitting it out.

I hope Payne isn't injured, he really is irreplaceable. Bar one potentially ropey tighthead its a very solid team and should be good enough to win the game. We have serious impact players on the bench anyway. Delighted to see Diack, Annett and Heaney all rewarded for good form.

This game is another sell-out- how many consecutive home games have been sell outs now? Quite a few!

[Glas a du]

You need a bigger stadium

[Kingshu]

I'm happy enough with Ulster team, wanted D'arcy at full back, surprised at R Herring, A Macklin, but I guess the plan is to rest Afoa for a game and a half, and he has played a lot of rugby this season for us, best rest him while we can. (we'll need him durning H-cup game, while 6 nations are on, and then the run in to the season, there won't really be much chance to rest him again).

Herring, we don't want to just throw him in come 6 nations, he's had some good gametime but needs to keep getting it, to stay up to speed, so this game suits.

Happy with Williams, as ball carring will be important. Overall happy enough and think thats its a good enough team to beat Scarlets.

[WillyGilly]

Crickey I missed the Macklin thing. Made sense to rest Afoa for one game, but Macklin still strikes me as an almighty liability regardless of who he's playing against.

[Notch]

You need a bigger stadium

Indeed- its just as well. This time last year we were fretting about having an average attendance of 9000 and being about to expand Ravenhills capacity to 18000. Good to see that demand is rising enough to justify the expansion.

[WillyGilly]

I should add for balance I saw him play for the ravens a few years back when he was coming back from injury and I thought he was excellent. Shame he hasn't kicked on at all.

[Kingshu]

also from

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20876816

Meanwhile, Ulster skipper Johann Muller will, as feared, miss Ulster's two remaining Heineken Cup pool matches against Glasgow and Castres in January, despite responding well to treatment on his broken arm.

lets hope L Stevenson, D Tuohy get though uninjuried with a good partnership, ass they will be the H-cup locks.

[pioden gorllewin]

Weak team for us, but I guess we are missing: Rhys Priestland (achilles) Jordan Williams (shoulder)Aaron Shingler (groin), George Earle (knee), Ken Owens (ribs), Joe Snyman (groin), Samson Lee (shoulder) Kieran Murphy (back)Liam Williams (concussion) and Gareth Owen (three week suspension)

Bit worried about our second row pairing of Kelly and Timani - Kelly is too lightweight at the moment, and Timani only seems to have enough in the tank for 20-30 mins of professional rugby. Why is Ball out of the 23? Could have done with his aggression.

Totally with Glas on the Jedwards comment.

Also surprised to see Phillips ahead of Fenby.

Still hoping to get a LBP out of this one.

[The Great Aukster]

Don't know why everyone is so concerned about Macklin when it was Black's inability to deal with BJ that caused the scrum problems last week?

Herring is the definite number 2 to Best so it makes sense to get him throwing to a line with Tuohy in it.

Payne has a hand niggle and is being rested as a precaution. D'Arcy needs to get more match time to get sharp again and play with Trimble/Gilroy as a back three unit. Barring injury this might be Ricky Andrew's last chance to play for his contract next season.

Williams should start against Glasgow so has to play this week. I would have preferred Henderson on the bench to offer more impact, but he has played a lot recently.

[Notch]

Because Du Preez did a serious number on him on the other side too...

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Luke Fu€king Marshall!!!!
Woohoo

[rodders]

I think Anscombe has got the team selection pretty much spot on all season and continues to do so.

Big few weeks coming up.

SUFTUM

[Standulstermen]

Marshall issurely in pole position for Glasgow now unless he as a shocker Pete. Paddy really didn't need 3 games rest I don't think. He should be a couple of good games away from a debut in green IMO

[neilthom7]

Because Bj Botha is one of the best props in the league, Black has generally played well up to that and Macklin faced Wian Du Preez who as Notch said did a number on him and Du Preez is hardly world class. There is just something not right about him for me he looks more like the Number 8 he used to play until he was 18, Ulster have previous on this, does anyone remember Alan Whitten who played prop? Well he played 8 right up to University level and was a excellent 8, they put him to prop and it didn't work.

[Standulstermen]

I think whitten had a serious illness though. Macklin hasn't really kicked on but then again we need to give him a fair crack with a good pack and see if we need to be looking for IQ tight heads going forward

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Marshall issurely in pole position for Glasgow now unless he as a shocker Pete. Paddy really didn't need 3 games rest I don't think. He should be a couple of good games away from a debut in green IMO

I agree. I am sure Darcy (and Earls) are now sweating a lot over this youngster from the North.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Whats up with Deccie fitzpatrick? When is he expected back?

[Notch]

I thought Whitten was doing ok until he got leukemia. Thing is, he wasn't quite ready for the top level. Macklin similarly still strikes me as being short of the quality needed for top-level professional rugby but he's still young.

It kind of illustrates the lack of an intermediate level competition between schools and pro for a prop to earn his stripes- especially if he only started propping in the Academy! If you look at the number of games Macklin has played prop in, its still not very many.

[Glas a du]

Because Bj Botha is one of the best props in the league...

He just binds on the arm. Any half decent linesman would have him blown off the park...


...so...as this is the Rabo he merrily gets away with in week in week out

[neilthom7]

I think whitten had a serious illness though. Macklin hasn't really kicked on but then again we need to give him a fair crack with a good pack and see if we need to be looking for IQ tight heads going forward

Did he I didn't know that, I kind of lost touch after the university team a bit. I just haven't seen Macklin show me enough to make me think he will be good enough. I mean Calum Black turned over Mike Ross last year with a bad pack so he can still show something without a good pack around him, and also if he can only perform well v his opposite number when he has a better pack around him then is that not an issue too. Off course there is still a chance he will prove me wrong and I would love him to do that.

[Don Alfonso]

I have general, vague hopes that Macklin can improve, and has been doing so. Remember him doing a number on a Scottish international prop against Efdnburgh in the HEC semi? He is our third choice TH, and 22, I think. I don't need him to dominate to earn his place; just not be dominated himself. He's much better in the loose than Fitzpatrick.

[Standulstermen]

Marshall issurely in pole position for Glasgow now unless he as a shocker Pete. Paddy really didn't need 3 games rest I don't think. He should be a couple of good games away from a debut in green IMO

I agree. I am sure Darcy (and Earls) are now sweating a lot over this youngster from the North.

With fitz, BOD and Kearney back it will be interesting how Deccie plays it. Do the likes of these guys and O'Brien go back into the team automatically?

For me it's a yes for Kearney and best (strauss being injured). For me BOD and O'Brien are less clear cut. Has Sean outplayed chris Henry for the 7 shirt? O'Mahoney for the 6?

Similarly bod wasn't tearing up trees before his injury although there is less competition there so he will come back. If that means Marshall gets a turn between him and sexton it can only be positive

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

BOD is captain so I assume he will get in to the 13 jersey and no one else is playing well there. Incidentally, he was having an UNREAL game the day he got injured I've not seen him so individually good in attack in a long time.

SOB has a lot to prove, I can see Henry holding on to his shirt anyway, not sure on POM.

Kearney will probably get in I'd say as he is a specialist.

Can't see Fitz getting in ahead of Gilroy, Trimble, Zebo or McFadden.

Marshall is the form 12 (is the form centre 12 or 13) so should play 12 I think.

Where do you put Earls?

[neilthom7]

With Earls pace and finishing if Kearney is back and all I'd put him on the win would be lovely outside Marshall and BOD

[LeinsterFan4life]

BOD is captain so I assume he will get in to the 13 jersey and no one else is playing well there. Incidentally, he was having an UNREAL game the day he got injured I've not seen him so individually good in attack in a long time.

SOB has a lot to prove, I can see Henry holding on to his shirt anyway, not sure on POM.

Kearney will probably get in I'd say as he is a specialist.

Can't see Fitz getting in ahead of Gilroy, Trimble, Zebo or McFadden.

Marshall is the form 12 (is the form centre 12 or 13) so should play 12 I think.

Where do you put Earls?

Earls doesn't have to be on the team. He is a great player to have on the bench because he can cover a lot of positions in the backline and would be great at running at tired defences.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

With Earls pace and finishing if Kearney is back and all I'd put him on the win would be lovely outside Marshall and BOD

at the expense of....

[rodders]

Where do you put Earls?

Good queston...I hear there's a good view from block 406.....

[neilthom7]

With Earls pace and finishing if Kearney is back and all I'd put him on the win would be lovely outside Marshall and BOD

at the expense of....

Well now theres the question maybe Leinster is right maybe the bench is the best option says a lot about our options though some quality is going to miss out

[Standulstermen]

Honestly don't know Pete.

Personally I would go

Healy, best, Ross, Ryan, McCarthy, O'Brien, Henry, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Gilroy, Marshall, BOD, Zebo, Kearney

kilcoyne, Sherry, Bent, Henderson, POM, Marmion, Jackson, Earls

Probably too radical for most and harsh on some. Apologies for the thread jack.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

It's going to be tough for him to get in. I think Zebo simply has to play as he is one of our best players at this stage (what a season he is having!)

I think I agree with Stands team although Gilroy needs to solidify his defence further IMO or else Trimble could get in or McFadden even.

Earls is lucky he covers 11-15 despite moaning about it so much it could stand to him in Feb.

[rodders]

Very good team stand. Interesting that the two form 3/4's right now imo, Trimble and McFadden, don't even make the bench.

Zebo and Gilroy on each wing is such an exciting prospect. Two real fliers and natural wingers.

[Notch]

I would go Trimble and Gilroy with Zebo at fullback and Kearney on the bench personally! I think its annoying how players just walk straight back in, and Zebo has done well there.

Of course, it could and probably will all change if Kearney has a few fantastic performances in the Heineken Cup. Then he takes 15, which makes it very interesting because I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks Trimble has been playing out of his skin since he was dropped for Argentina.

[Standulstermen]

Very good team stand. Interesting that the two form 3/4's right now imo, Trimble and McFadden, don't even make the bench.

Zebo and Gilroy on each wing is such an exciting prospect. Two real fliers and natural wingers.

When I said it was harsh I was referring to those two guys and o'callaghan. I think Zebo is the standout back three player but wouldn't mind notchs suggestion of Kearney benching. I would be surprised if we don't see

Murray, sexton, earls, D'arcy, BOD, Zebo, Kearney though.

[Kingshu]

Trimble has been playing out of his skin, but there is no doubt that DK will pick Earls on the wing ahead of him, expect to see kearney at fullback, and wings Zebo and Earls.

pete is right when he asks "Where do you put Earls?" because DK has to have him in there somewhere if he is fit.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Personally speaking I wouldn't start Earls if Marshall keeps up his current form

[Notch]

Well Trimble has had chances in green. It's easy to justify him not getting a spot, although he's been better than people seem to think he's been inconsistent for Ireland and at times ineffective.

At Ulster, he's risen to the challenge of Gilroy magnificently. Since that dream debut Gilroy had against Argentina Trimble has been better than him at provincial level. I would like to see Gilroy keep the shirt for Ireland, but the way Trimbles been going he probably wouldn't be getting the run of games he's getting for Ulster without Bowe's injury. But then I think Trimble fits much better into the way we attack and especially the way we defend.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

Well Trimble has had chances in green. It's easy to justify him not getting a spot, although he's been better than people seem to think he's been inconsistent for Ireland and at times ineffective.

At Ulster, he's risen to the challenge of Gilroy magnificently. Since that dream debut Gilroy had against Argentina Trimble has been better than him at provincial level. I would like to see Gilroy keep the shirt for Ireland, but the way Trimbles been going he probably wouldn't be getting the run of games he's getting for Ulster without Bowe's injury. But then I think Trimble fits much better into the way we attack and especially the way we defend.

I think Trimble is immeasurably better in defence than Gilroy. It was something said about Zebo last year as well as his spacial awareness and he fixed it over a summer, Gilroy does need to improve his defence. McFadden has to be an option too he has been playing really well on the wing

[Glas a du]

Defence schemence, they're blydi wingers! Attack is most important!

[JayMaster3000]

I've two friends who have come over from Wales last minute and we were hoping to go but as of this morning it sold out.

Would anyone have one/two spare tickets surplus they want rid of??

[The Great Aukster]

Trimble is successful in a backline standing flat, as he is very hard to stop and has great timing on his pass. So if he hasn't run through a gap he more than likely has created one. He isn't a stepper so in a backline standing deep (Ireland), the defence see him in plenty of time and so he is far less effective.

[pete (buachaill on eirne)]

https://www.606v2.com/t39026-ireland-back-3-options#1762264

Didn't want to keep hijacking the thread

[Notch]

Defence schemence, they're blydi wingers! Attack is most important!

Don't know man, we've scored a lot of tries off turnovers. Trimble himself has created several tries just by brilliant defensive reads, seeing when the intercept is on and taking it. The score that was the difference the last time these two sides met is a perfect example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAPyrb30cus

Jim Neilly says a 'little bit fortuitous' but he's getting those far too regularly for it to be an accident, he's so good at cutting off overlaps like that. It's relatively risky if it doesn't work but its a testament to Trimbles judgement that we haven't really been exposed because he does it so well.

[Glas a du]

I love Jim Neilly.

[rodders]

Trimble is successful in a backline standing flat, as he is very hard to stop and has great timing on his pass. So if he hasn't run through a gap he more than likely has created one. He isn't a stepper so in a backline standing deep (Ireland), the defence see him in plenty of time and so he is far less effective.

Good shout Aukster.

[neilthom7]

Trimble loves those intercepts has really gone for them this year and scored a couple of tries of them as well his judgement has become better in that area he used to shoot out sometimes and get caught out but doesn't really get caught too much anymore credit to him I think with Gilroy coming through he has upped his game again so fair play.

[Notch]

I don't know, he doesn't really get on the ball too often when he plays for Ireland! Its a very convincing theory in theory but for me the difference is playing for Ulster Trimble gets to come off his wing where he can hit it up or pass and his chasing game is better employed by good box kicking from 9, plus as mentioned above our defence suits him very well.

Gilroy is a different kind of winger really. He is indeed better coming from depth and taking on defenders one on one, and in broken field.

[Sponsored content]