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V2 Greatest of All Time Awards

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Post by MtotheC Wed 02 Jan 2013, 8:15 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ladies and gentlemen, children of all ages V2 proudly presents its inaugural greatest of all time awards, the competition pits 64 titans of sporting history against each other in a world cup style event. With Giants from the worlds of Golf, Boxing, Football, Cricket, track and field, tennis and many more this competition will prove who really is the greatest of all time!

Forget the Jules Rimet, the Ryder Cup, Wimbledon, the World Heavyweight Title or even Olympic Gold this is the one they all want and it’s up to you who takes the title. The competition starts with the group stages, 16 groups consisting of 4 competitors with the top two progressing from each round, the next stage goes straight into a knockout format pitting the final 32 in one on one contest, all the way to the final where V2’s G.O.A.T will be crowned.

The 64 competitors have been chosen by the admin and moderator team and will be drawn randomly into the 16 groups.
It’s really easy for you to get involved and have your say, simply vote for the sporting great that you believe deserves your vote in each group/round based on their achievements, medals, honours, skills, personality etc. etc. it’s all down to personal preference, however what we do ask is that you leave a comment as to why you voted and tell us exactly why your chosen participant deserves your vote and progress to the next round.

Voting for each poll starts in the morning and ends at midnight so you have one day to cast your vote before the next poll starts the following day.

The participants will be revealed each day when the group is posted up and the tournament will run between Mondays-Fridays.
There’s going to be lots of ways to get involved on the site and on twitter, we will be looking for posters to champion some of the participants come the later stages and promote their competitor to the rest of the site, so make your posts throughout the tournament interesting, opinionated and thought provoking and you may be asked to champion a finalist.

The competition will begin on Monday 7th January so make sure your online and ready to debate on who gets your vote and progresses on the road to become V2’s Greatest of All Time.

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Post by ShahenshahG Sun 06 Jan 2013, 4:19 pm

Didnt stop him running away all night. Utter Love sacks

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Post by User 774433 Sun 06 Jan 2013, 4:23 pm


'There was no way I was going to pull out of this fight. But I was unable to push off my foot to shoot off my right hand and that's why I feel it didn't allow me to throw big, powerful punches. That's boxing. You don't get it your own way all the time. I'm gutted.


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Post by ShahenshahG Sun 06 Jan 2013, 4:30 pm

lets not derail this thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGd3AeDn_c4

We'll continue back in the boxing section if you wish

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Post by Guest Sun 06 Jan 2013, 6:05 pm

Horse racing was a good call, I'd second that. Some incredible jockeys over the years. Or would you put the horse in instead?

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 06 Jan 2013, 6:42 pm

Ali for me is the greatest sportsmen of all time despite not being the greatest boxer of all time, imagine i'm not alone with such an oddity of an opinion.

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Post by Adam D Sun 06 Jan 2013, 6:44 pm

Thought this was quite interesting:

If you want to lose friends quickly, announce you've decided who is the greatest sportsman of all time. It is the kind of pub controversy any sensible sportswriter studiously avoids, knowing that all it brings is trouble. Savvy pundits even resist comparing players who excelled at the same sport in different eras. So what hope is there of accurately judging sportsmen across different sports and different ages?

But, like a moth drawn to a flame, I can't resist. And I think there is a different way of approaching the debate. We usually ask the question from the perspective of historical significance. No sooner is Muhammad Ali nominated than the debate shifts to his protest against the Vietnam War. It is as though Ali's boxing is scarcely relevant to the question of his greatness. No, it has to be about his moral and political impact, what he meant to America, how he acted as a lightning rod for deep and profound social change. Similar arguments apply to Jack Johnson, the first black man to become heavyweight world champion.

So the "greatest of all time" (or GOAT) debate normally revolves around sportsmen who transcend - a recurrent term - "mere" sport. In other words, it isn't really about who is the greatest sportsman at all, but who is the greatest man who happened also to play sport.

It is rarely pointed out the criteria for greatness - moral courage, global significance and political impact - inevitably prejudice against sportsmen who live in tranquil eras. What about the great athletes who were born in comfortable suburbs, lived in mature democracies and who focused simply on sporting brilliance? They deserve a shot at the title, too, don't they?

Roger Federer has 17 majestic grand slam titles under his belt. But if you are born in Basel in 1981, it's hard to galvanise the world by standing up for the rights of white, affluent Swiss. In the GOAT debate, Federer is armed only with a tennis racket, a sense of sportsmanship and balletic grace. It is wonderful to watch, but impossible to compare to standing up to Hitler, as Jesse Owens did in Berlin in 1936. Instead of inflating the debate, making it about civil rights and global significance, we might narrow the argument. If we ask simply who was the best at sport - just sport, nothing more and nothing less - we finally have a question that might yield an answer.

So how can we avoid the problem of comparing knockout punches with forehand winners? One more scientific measure is to examine who was the furthest ahead of the next best player.

Not Ali. For all his irresistible charisma and heroism, Ali lost to both his long-term rivals - Joe Frazier and Ken Norton - even though he won more than he lost against both. Taken as a whole, Ali's epic career was a case of primus inter pares.

Babe Ruth, another candidate, revolutionised his sport as a spectacle. No one had ever hit a baseball with such joy and power. But his overall batting average is only tenth in the all-time list, significantly behind the less loved Ty Cobb.

Contrast the career of Sir Donald Bradman. In most sports, the greatest players are statistically bunched. Not cricket. Bradman's batting average of 99.94 is 40 per cent better than his nearest rival, Graeme Pollock. No sportsman in any major sport has ever led the chasing pack by such a huge distance.

So if we stick purely to scientific measures, Bradman is hard to beat. Do I think Bradman made a greater contribution to the world than Jack Johnson or Muhammad Ali? No. But was Bradman a greater outlier, purely as a sportsman? Very probably.

Only a fool would seek to detract from the achievements of those who inspired communities through moral and physical courage - athletes such as Jackie Robinson, the first black man to play Major League Baseball. But we should think carefully before conflating two very separate questions - first, who was the best at sport; secondly, who made the greatest contribution to the world through life as a sportsman.

The GOAT debate reveals a deep irony of modern sport - how we are reluctant to enjoy sport as just sport. We're always hoping it will reveal itself as being about something bigger, grander and more lasting. Sport has grown exponentially in scale, wealth and reach, yet when it is left to stand on its own two feet it remains slightly unsteady, still searching for the stabilisers.

@edsmithwriter

Originally published in the December 2012 issue of British GQ.
Original article here:
http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2012-12/04/who-is-the-greatest-sportsman-athlete-ever

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Post by Fists of Fury Sun 06 Jan 2013, 6:50 pm

I've written a piece on Donald Bradman, Kiwi, but I believe others are free.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 06 Jan 2013, 6:52 pm

Personally think being the greatest heavyweight of all time during the divisions greatest era is far more of a sporting achievement than being the best batsmen in the world during a time of 6 test nations.

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Post by Fists of Fury Sun 06 Jan 2013, 6:56 pm

Maybe it is, Ghosty, the ensuing discussion will surely decide.

However...in response to that, the Don was pretty much immortal. Ali was fallible. There are pros and cons to both arguments.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 06 Jan 2013, 6:58 pm

Maybe so but statistically I don't think anything comes close to Jahangir Khans 555 match winning streak in a more global sport.

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Post by Fists of Fury Sun 06 Jan 2013, 7:05 pm

More global sport? No chance. 1 billion Indians would suggest that cricket is more so.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 06 Jan 2013, 7:09 pm

That's one country Fists so don't think you can use that a basis to call it more global.

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Post by Fists of Fury Sun 06 Jan 2013, 7:15 pm

In terms of pure numbers following and participating? I can in that sense.

It's not as global as football, granted, but what else is? It should impact upon our choices, but should not lead to a sport being written off because of it. There are plenty of other criteria.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 06 Jan 2013, 7:18 pm

I appreciate that Fists, hell I played cricket when I was younger but I can't give Bradman as much praise as others because it was a 6 country sport back then, there just isn't the mass participation for my liking.

Eddy Mercxx for the win anyway.

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Post by Guest Sun 06 Jan 2013, 7:19 pm

The second-most played sport in the world is ping-pong, 300m people play it. I don't think we should be looking at global appeal...

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Post by ShahenshahG Sun 06 Jan 2013, 7:21 pm

They share one thing though - both were capable of sublime stroke play but chose to engage in a war of attrition to ensure victory time and time again.

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Post by Hero Sun 06 Jan 2013, 7:22 pm

F1 might struggle if its most participated in.

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Post by ShahenshahG Sun 06 Jan 2013, 7:23 pm

Hero wrote:F1 might struggle if its most participated in.

laughing laughing

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 06 Jan 2013, 7:23 pm

Personally think level of participation is hugely important, being the best at a minority sport is far different than being the best at a global sport.

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Post by 88Chris05 Sun 06 Jan 2013, 7:25 pm

"Global sport" is a bit of an odd one to really define, though. Football is the most widely played sport in the world, but one in every three people on the planet is Chinese or Indian, and nary a great footballer has ever been produced by either contry.

Cricket may not be huge in as many countries, but when one of the nations who do play it can boast over one billion people, it puts a different perspective on things. If we take the whole population of Europe (some fifty-odd nations) and add that to the whole population of the USA, then you still have less people than there is in India alone, for instance.

What's more, though cricket tends to only be played to a high, high level in a relatively small handful of countries, those countries are spread pretty evenly across the globe. The test playing nations, despite there only being ten of them, account for Europe, Africa, the Caribbean, the Subcontinent / South Asia and the Antipodes.

I genuinely don't think The Don can be anything other than a serious, serious contender here. I won't go in to the statistics or level of his dominance in numbers, as we all know them in depth, but they are pretty unique. He'll be there or thereabouts, I think. Plenty can claim to be the greatest in their sport, but precious few can claim to being the greatest by as wide a margin as Bradman. His achievements are incredibly special, to me.
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Post by Hero Sun 06 Jan 2013, 7:33 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Personally think level of participation is hugely important, being the best at a minority sport is far different than being the best at a global sport.

How many boxers are there globally? Might have to check up on the top fishermen for a few entries.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 06 Jan 2013, 7:40 pm

It's not necessarily the numbers but how many different nationalities. Boxing has had greats from America, Canada, Mexico, Australia, France, Germany, Italy, Brazil, Argentina, Nicuragua, Puerto Rico, South Africa, Ghana, Japan, Thailand, Philipines etc.

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Post by paperbag_puncher Sun 06 Jan 2013, 8:01 pm

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Horse racing was a good call, I'd second that. Some incredible jockeys over the years. Or would you put the horse in instead?

Yeah I'm surprised horse racing's not included. Jockeys are far superior athletes to eh darts players. I also think the skills needed for darts can be found to a much higher level in racing and all. Concentration, good hands, nerve etc. Bit more important to have serious concentration levels when a mishap can literally cost you your life at worst rather than missing a double top. These guys starve themselves, are traveling round the country busting a gut no matter what the weather and risking life and limb every time they get on a horse. Most of them do it for peanuts and all compared to other sports. For the record I'm not exactly the biggest racing fan in the world, just find it odd its not included..

It would have to be the jockeys being considered rather than the horses mate. Having the best horse helps but by no means guarantees the win.

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Post by Hero Sun 06 Jan 2013, 8:05 pm

Jockey wise would it not be Laffit Pincay Jr rather than McCoy?

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Post by Fists of Fury Sun 06 Jan 2013, 8:16 pm

Chris, excellent post, my thoughts exactly.

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Post by paperbag_puncher Sun 06 Jan 2013, 8:20 pm

Hero wrote:Jockey wise would it not be Laffit Pincay Jr rather than McCoy?

Doesn't really matter seeing as racing's not included Crying or Very sad

That's the thing though there are numerous contenders if we're looking at jockeys and I couldn't pick one outright. I'm more of a national hunt fan but Pincay's achievements and numbers are ridiculous.

I only mentioned McCoy as in the modern era he's done it all and has even transcended the sport with his 2010 sports personality win. He's had by far the most wins of any jumps jockey, been champion jockey for the last 15 years or so and pretty much won every big race there is to win. Hes an absolute beast and whether its a handicap hurdle up in Ayr or the Cheltenham Gold Cup his drive and will to win are exceptional.

(From Wiki) 'McCoy has broken or dislocated almost every bone in his body (some of them multiple times), including a middle and lower vertebrae, both shoulder blades, ribs, an ankle, cheekbones, a wrist, a leg, collar bone, fingers and teeth' So for the unparallelled success in his sphere and his obvious dedication and sacrifices made to his craft I think he deserves a spot in the 64.


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Post by Gordy Sun 06 Jan 2013, 9:40 pm

The credibility of the awards is going to be completely undermined if you have people like Phil Taylor alongside people like Ali. A bloke who plays a pub game extremelly well being compared a man that inspired, entertained and acheived everything in the toughest sport their is??

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Post by User 774433 Sun 06 Jan 2013, 9:42 pm

@Adam

Interesting text you quoted.

But one thing.
They guy mentioned Ali was not GOAT as he lost to his main rivals (but still had a positive H2H with them).
And he didn't mention Federer having a almost embarrassing 2-8 record against Nadal in majors???

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Post by super_realist Sun 06 Jan 2013, 10:01 pm

Max Woosnam.

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Post by McLaren Sun 06 Jan 2013, 10:43 pm

Lance Armstrong?
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Post by Gordy Sun 06 Jan 2013, 10:50 pm

McLaren wrote:Lance Armstrong?

Your joking right?

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Post by McLaren Sun 06 Jan 2013, 11:12 pm

No, the guy won 7 tdf's.
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Post by User 774433 Sun 06 Jan 2013, 11:14 pm

McLaren wrote:No, the guy won 7 tdf's.
Not sure if you're joking here...

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Post by ShahenshahG Sun 06 Jan 2013, 11:16 pm

:Laugh: hes playing with the village idiot

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Post by McLaren Sun 06 Jan 2013, 11:31 pm

I am sure he cant shoot 147 in snooker, but 7 tdf's alone seems good enough to be considered a GOAT.
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Post by ShahenshahG Sun 06 Jan 2013, 11:33 pm

Anyone who can endure France 7 times deserves the gong for the sacrifices he makes

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Post by User 774433 Mon 07 Jan 2013, 12:18 am

McLaren wrote:I am sure he cant shoot 147 in snooker, but 7 tdf's alone seems good enough to be considered a GOAT.
You sure about that?

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Post by User 774433 Mon 07 Jan 2013, 12:19 am

ShahenshahG wrote:Anyone who can endure France 7 times deserves the gong for the sacrifices he makes
Laugh

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Post by Hero Mon 07 Jan 2013, 12:26 am

Last time I checked Ive got as many TDFs as Armstrong.

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Post by User 774433 Mon 07 Jan 2013, 12:32 am

Hero wrote:Last time I checked Ive got as many TDFs as Armstrong.
Yes, but he's ahead on the EPO count OK

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Mon 07 Jan 2013, 12:33 am

ShahenshahG wrote:Anyone who can endure France 7 times deserves the gong for the sacrifices he makes

oi! Very Happy

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Post by User 774433 Mon 07 Jan 2013, 12:41 am

Tu es de France?

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Post by Guest Mon 07 Jan 2013, 6:38 am

It Must Be Love wrote:
Hero wrote:Last time I checked Ive got as many TDFs as Armstrong.
Yes, but he's ahead on the EPO count OK
I wouldn't be so sure about that...

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Post by Adam D Sat 12 Jan 2013, 10:57 am

The Five Group winners so far have been put up on the journal - feel free to add your comments about them there too!

http://v2journal.com/10/post/2013/01/greatest-of-all-time-sportsman.html

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Post by ShahenshahG Sat 12 Jan 2013, 11:20 am

I read somewhere on here - that the top two go through? Surely thats not right?

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Post by Adam D Sat 12 Jan 2013, 11:35 am

Yes the top 2 go through from each group.


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Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 12 Jan 2013, 11:36 am

I would be shocked if Lester Piggott doesn’t get in the poll. he is surely THE greatest jockey that has ever lived. Rode with a distinct style and pose and for longevity he beats anyone else in the sport. I do believe he began riding as a jockey as a young boy. He rode a record amount of classic winners and his nine Derby wins stretched over five decades and was still riding classic winners in his 60’s. He suffered horrendous injuries almost losing an ear in numerous falls but he bounced back and no other jockey comes close to his style, dedication and achievements.
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V2 Greatest of All Time Awards - Page 4 Empty Re: V2 Greatest of All Time Awards

Post by Adam D Sat 12 Jan 2013, 12:14 pm

Could someone help out please?

On each of the individual winners pages on the Journal, could someone post who came second (and goes through) as well as who went out.

Cheers!!!

Adam D
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V2 Greatest of All Time Awards - Page 4 Empty Re: V2 Greatest of All Time Awards

Post by Guest Sat 12 Jan 2013, 12:18 pm

Craig why don't you champion him with an article?

You seem to know a lot about him.

MTdude send the PM

ps - thats if he is in the final 64 laughing

ghost

rotapicname

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V2 Greatest of All Time Awards - Page 4 Empty Re: V2 Greatest of All Time Awards

Post by CaledonianCraig Sat 12 Jan 2013, 12:24 pm

Cheers emancipator I'd be honoured but not sure if Lester Piggott is included. It would be a travesty if he wasn't.
CaledonianCraig
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V2 Greatest of All Time Awards - Page 4 Empty Re: V2 Greatest of All Time Awards

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