v2 G.O.A.T Round 1 Group 4

First topic message reminder :

Yesterday’s group was all about The Don, Bradman claimed 54% of the votes and progresses into round 2 as one of the early favourites to go all the way, joining him in round 2 is one of the greatest grand slam champions Martina Navratilova who went through with 25% of the vote. Exiting the tournament at the first stage are World Cup winner Zidane and boxing great Harry Greb.

Today’s group sees Horse Racing, Rugby, Football and Golf compete for your votes.

We have two participants championed today with articles written by forum members; please feel free to submit your own argument below for those not championed.

Please vote for the competitor you believe has achieved the most in sport and should progress into the next round.

Please leave a comment as to why you voted

Diego Maradona- Football- Championed by Hero

One day, Lionel Messi will possibly prove to be the global game's greatest player, but not yet, and certainly not just because he has blown the all-time number of goals in a calendar year. Messi may be scoring goals at a rate rarely seen since Dixie Dean's heyday, but he does have the advantage of being at the sharp end of probably the greatest club side of all time. Take Messi out of Barcelona and what do you have?

We already have an answer.

In the last World Cup Messi failed to score in five matches as Argentina lost in the quarter-final to Germany whilst his Barca teammates have lifted the Euro twice and the World Cup. It is argued that the Champions League is now a higher standard than the World Cup (not that the presence of Apoel Nicosia in the quarter-finals adds much weight to that view). Whether it is or not is irrelevant when judging Messi because he is playing for the best team in the competition, a team which even without him would be formidable. A truly great player is capable of turning a moderate team into a winning one. Like Diego Maradona.

English attitudes towards Maradona are understandably coloured by the "Hand of God" goal but his notoriety should not obscure his greatness. Maradona turned base materials into gold on both the club and international stage. Napoli were a shambles when they somehow found the cash to buy him in 1984. Fighting relegation had become a way of life with the club surviving by a point the previous season. Maradona turned them into title contenders and in 1986/87 they won the first scudetto in the club's history. A second Serie A title, and Napoli's first European prize, the Uefa Cup, followed. Since Maradona left, the club have not won a trophy.

Maradona was similarly central to Argentina's 1986 World Cup success. Ten of their 14 goals were scored or created by him, and his five goals included superb ones against England and Belgium of the type now associated with Messi. In the final, after West Germany had come back from 2-0 down to level, he supplied the pass for Jorge Burruchaga to score the winner. All this while carrying a knee injury which had threatened to rule him out of the tournament.

Brian Glanville, in The Story of the World Cup, his history of the competition since 1930, wrote: "It will always be remembered as Maradona's World Cup, seldom has a player, even Pele, so dominated the competition. In an era when individual talent was at a premium, defensive football more prevalent than ever, Maradona – squat, muscular, explosive, endlessly adroit – showed that a footballer of genius could still prevail."

This context is another factor in Maradona's primacy. He formerly played in an era when the tactics were negative and the tackling brutal. Maradona's relative lack of impact at Barcelona, and later decline, had much to do with the injuries he suffered including the notorious ankle-break by Andoni Goikoetxea, the "Butcher of Bilbao". Only after the 1990 World Cup, when Maradona carried to the final an Argentine team which was as guilty of these sins as any, did Fifa begin the crackdown which has allowed players like Messi to flourish.

Simply put Maradona was the best player in the most global sport and therefore rightfully should challenge for the biggest prize of all, the G.O.A.T.

Gareth Edwards- Rugby- Champion by dummy_half

The facts - Wales scrum half 53 times between 1967 and 1978, scoring 20 tries. British and Irish Lions scrum half in 1971 and 1974, in successful tours to New Zealand and South Africa.

It is never easy to pick who is the greatest rugby player of all time - different requirements for specialist positions and the changes to the game following the introduction of professionalism make comparisons troublesome. However, Gareth Edwards is one name that always makes the discussion, and indeed he was voted the best rugby player of all time in a 2003 Ruugby World poll of present and former international players, and Will Carling named him the #1 in his list of 50 greatest players in 2007.

The Wales team of the 70s, even for this Englishman, is a team of legends. The Pontypool front row, Merv the Swerve Davies, Prince Barry John, Phil Bennett, Gerald Davies, JPR Williams. However, the collossus standing over all of them was Edwards. First capped at 19 and then playing the next 53 Wales internationals - never injured, never dropped and Wales's youngest ever captain. In his twelve year international career, Wales won the 5 Nations Championship 7 times. Sadly, at the time there was no rugby world cup to allow this Wales team to be regularly tested against the best the southern hemisphere had to offer - judging from how well the Welsh-dominated Lions did in New Zealand in 1971, they'd have had a good chance - the only British team even close to their legacy is the England team of 2000-2003, and they didn't dominate for anywhere near the same length of time.

Edwards was a talented youngster, given a scholarship to Millfields school where he excelled at football (even signing for Swansea City at 16), gymnastics and athletics as well as rugby. However, as a South Wales boy, it was always rugby that was closest to his heart.

Traditionally, scrum half is a very technical position, with the ability to pass the ball fast and accurately and to kick well under pressure are pre-requisites. Edwards had these attributes, but he had more also. The strength and tenacity of a back row forward meant he could dig the ball out of rucks and mauls and was prepared to carry the ball himself into the heavy traffic around the breakdown, plus while most scrum halfs of the time were defensive liabilities, he never shirked the tackling duties. Even more importantly, he was fast - as quick as most wingers, and it was this pace that saw his most famous moment, finishing off 'That Try' for the Barbarians against New Zealand in 1973.

I'm sure most of you have seen it - All Blacks wing Brian Williams kicks the ball across to near the Baa-Baas posts, where Phil Bennett retrieves and sidesteps 3 pursuers before passing to JPR Williams. Williams stands up under a high tackle and off-loads to Pullen, still in the defensive 22. Pullen, Dawes, David and Quinnell carry the ball forwards to just over the half way line, progressively passing towards the left touchline. Quinnell throws a one-handed pass aimed at his winger, but a faster-running Edwards 'intercepts' and sprints the remaining 40m to score in the corner. All this in the first 3 minutes of the most entertaining rugby match ever played.

The final words I leave to Will Carling, in summing up Edwards:

"He was a supreme athlete with supreme skills, the complete package. He played in the 1970s, but, if he played now, he would still be the best. He was outstanding at running, passing, kicking and reading the game. He sits astride the whole of rugby as the ultimate athlete on the pitch".

World Golf Hall of Fame Profile: Bobby Jones - Provided by Diggers

More than any player in history, Bobby Jones is the model of the complete golfer. Supremely gifted, Jones was also a man of vast intelligence and profound character, and he merged all three forces to become not only a singular champion, but a genuine hero. Wrote Herbert Warren Wind, "In the opinion of many people, of all the great athletes, Jones came the closest to being what we called a great man."

As a golfer, Jones was a giant. In the 1920s, he was "an ultra-athlete," according to writer and historian Charles Price, "recognized at being better at his game than any other athlete was at his." While there is no doubt Jones is the finest amateur golfer the game has ever produced, there's a strong argument that he was the greatest golfer, period. Beginning with his victory in the 1923 U.S. Open at Inwood and ending with his U.S. Amateur victory at Merion in 1930, Jones won 13 championships in 20 tries, the most imposing run of major titles the game has ever seen.

His crowning glory was The Grand Slam of 1930, in which he became the only golfer ever to win the U.S. Amateur, British Amateur, British Open and U.S. Open in the same year, indeed, the only golfer to win all four in a career. When he retired at the end of that year at the age of 28, The New York Times noted the occasion in an editorial that read, "With dignity, he quit the scene on which he nothing common did, or mean." Jones was born March 17, 1902, in Atlanta. He was clearly a prodigy, and his first championship was the 1916 U.S. Amateur, where as a 14-year-old he went to the third round.

From the beginning, Jones' swing possessed "a drowsy beauty," in the words of Bernard Darwin. Yet Jones was a passionate man who had to overcome his own frailties of temperament. The strain of competition would cause him to lose as much as 18 pounds in a week. After winning the 1926 U.S. Open, he suddenly broke into tears in his Columbus, Ohio, hotel room, the strain catching up to him. He had to dominate a fiery temper that hindered him as a youth. As talented as he was, he did not win his first championship until 1923, prompting the early part of his career to be labeled "The Seven Lean Years." But Jones had a revelation when he discovered that the key to winning was learning to score well when playing badly. "I think this is what I learned to do best of all," wrote Jones, and "The Seven Fat Years" ensued.

Jones accomplished all this while playing competitive golf no more than three months in a year at any point in his life. The rest of the time was dedicated to academics, and later, the workaday world of the law. He studied mechanical engineering at Georgia Tech, graduating in three years, received a degree in English Literature from Harvard and attended law school at Emory University, withdrawing in his third semester to pass the bar. He would go on to become one of the game's most lucid and enlightening writers. Besides his record and character, Jones' greatest legacy is Augusta National Golf Club and the Masters Tournament, which he founded in 1934. He played in the tournament several times, never finishing better than 13th. In 1948, he developed syringomyelia, a fluid-filled cavity in his spinal cord causing first pain, then paralysis. Jones never played golf again and was eventually restricted to a wheelchair until his death Dec. 18, 1971. As Wind wrote, "As a young man he was able to stand up to just about the best that life can offer, which isn't easy, and later he stood up with equal grace to just about the worst."

The USGA's award for distinguished sportsmanship is the Bob Jones Award. "What Jones did was create a model that everyone, consciously or unconsciously, followed," said William Campbell. "It is why we have so many fine people in golf. He showed the world how to do it."

Tony McCoy - Championed by Wikiedia, researched by Paperbag Puncher

Champion jockey 17 consecutive years (won it every year he's been a pro)

Over 3,600 winners. (more than any other jump jockey by a considerable margin)

McCoy has won almost every big race there is to win. His most high profile winners include the prestigious Cheltenham Gold Cup, Champion Hurdle, Queen Mother Champion Chase, King George VI Chase and the 2010 Grand National.

He has had a number of falls since becoming a jump jockey, one of the many occupational hazards that comes with race riding. McCoy has broken or dislocated almost every bone in his body (some of them multiple times), including a middle and lower vertebrae, both shoulder blades, ribs, an ankle, cheekbones, a wrist, a leg, collar bone, fingers and teeth. (He has never willingly pulled out of a race due to an injury)

Won BBC Sport's personality of the year in 2010 beating Phil Taylor and Jessica Ennis. Received more votes than previous winners Ryan Giggs, Joe Calzaghe, Chris Hoy, Zara Phillips. This is impressive coming from a sport not as main stream as others and with a dwindling fan base.

McCoy stands at 1.78m (5'10") which is relatively tall for a jockey. In order to maintain a suitable racing weight, McCoy must keep his weight down to 63.5kg (10st). McCoy's natural weight, based on his physiology, should be about 75 kg (one and a half stone) more.[4] McCoy's diet, similar to many jockeys, involves a strong mug of sugary tea for breakfast and one slice of toast (depending on the weight requirements for the afternoons racing). Breakfast is often followed by sweating in the bath for one hour. At the races, McCoy's lunch will again involve another cup of tea and a couple of jelly babies. After racing, McCoy eats dinner early to give his food time to digest. His evening meal commonly consists of lean meat or fish. He only eats dinner four times a week, so on the other three nights he goes to bed hungry. McCoy will sweat for a hour in the bath before bed.

I think you would be hard pressed to find many in the 64 who sacrifice or risk as much as AP does to be the best at what he does. To be a 17 time champion jockey shows how successful he is but also how much time he puts into his craft. He consistently rides the most horses year on year often winning on animals that have no right to win. He has a £1 million retainer to ride for JP McManus and many would be happy to only do this yet he will take every spare ride he can get in his pursuit of glory.

He may not be the most stylish of jockeys or the best pure horseman but for drive, guts, will to win and pure dominance he more than deserves to be in this company and should advance further.

In "the sport of kings" one man reigns supreme.

"Bit of an ignorant view I'm afraid Last I heard 30% of favourites win NH races. That means in 7/10 races the horse rated as having the best chance of winning does not win. You're doing a huge dis service to jockeys, trainers and everyone else involved in fine tuning a horse for a race. If you raced the same horses without riders you wouldn't get the same results."

dont know- its as he said very hard to quantify .. Add to the that the real crux. Is anyone truely confident that jockeys records are based on real sporting outcomes or many are slightly.,.,.....(well you get the picture)

mystiroakey wrote:"Bit of an ignorant view I'm afraid Last I heard 30% of favourites win NH races. That means in 7/10 races the horse rated as having the best chance of winning does not win. You're doing a huge dis service to jockeys, trainers and everyone else involved in fine tuning a horse for a race. If you raced the same horses without riders you wouldn't get the same results."

dont know- its as he said very hard to quantify .. Add to the that the real crux. Is anyone truely confident that jockeys records are based on real sporting outcomes or many are slightly.,.,.....(well you get the picture)

Well we can say that about a lot of sports Mysti. Boxing suffers in that regard for me, lots of very iffy decisions in the modern day fights and I believe the mob had a fair bit of control over what went on back in the day.

Shelsey93 wrote:Fair enough paperbag, I didn't mean to be patronising towards jockeys.

But I think my basic point still stands. In Horse Racing the horses are a major factor in which horse wins. The jockey's role is important, but he can't win on a bad horse and vice versa.

That's where you're actually wrong. I don't mean to harp on but McCoy often wins on horses that have no right to win. He wins on horses that no other jockey would win on. He's known for it. That's why he deserves his place on the list and why he is rated as highly as he is.

He is not the main jockey of either Paul Nichols or Nicky Henderson (2 powerhouses of British racing) so does not usually ride the best horses in the land. The role, skills and ability of a jockey are very under rated and misunderstood. Its possibly the hardest job in sport if rated on a day to day basis.

No sport engages me less than horse racing, and probably find the jumps duller than the flat. But thats just me.
That said I can still believe a lot of skill is involved to be the best and will to win and mental resolve are what seperates the great from the good and from what little I know McCoy has those qualities in spades.

Dummy, re Maradona:

I come from this having participated extensively on the Cricket Hall of Fame (as you have).

Over there on the face of it quite minor things like ordering an underarm delivery (G. Chappell) and requesting that the team don't travel to the ground in anticipation of rain (Ranji) are seen as black marks. These players have either been forced to wait a round (Chappell) or rejected (Ranji - admittedly other factors came into it too). Boycott and Gooch are among others for whom 'character' has been a factor.

Now, this competition is different - we are looking at 'greatness' rather than suitability for a place in a Hall of Fame.

But I do believe that a pre-requisite of 'greatness' should be the absence of serious black marks. Drugs, blatant cheating (to give a team a major advantage) and using violence towards an opponent and hence defacing your sport on its biggest stage would, for me, be classed as very serious black marks. In many sports somebody with that against them would be very poorly thought of.

Maradona and Zidane are probably products of football's awful attitude to discipline. As somebody said above, this is probably the result of too many years without major action being taken.

Just want to ask the mods whether after the GOAT competition whether they will be like a team format GOAT in the future? Just say for the argument with F1/Jockey's that maybe the teams/trainers behind your Schumachers and McCoy's get the recognition? This could be extended upon into the team sports such as Football/Rugby/Cricket and it can be extended to special events like the Olympics both Summer and Winter, The Ryder Cup, World Cups, British Lion teams etc.

my brother in law was a jockey till he had a bad fall..

he was and is still extremely fit.

But i find it hard to call it a sport.. But there is one thing going for it- You do have to be very fit to be a good jockey!! But still the stories i have heard means i sadly cant ever vote for one..

He never got involved in actually fixing races- but they did used to make a lot of money on bets based on how close the field was at the end of the race.. They did it all the time..

"Just want to ask the mods whether after the GOAT competition whether they will be like a team format GOAT in the future? Just say for the argument with F1/Jockey's that maybe the teams/trainers behind your Schumachers and McCoy's get the recognition? This could be extended upon into the team sports such as Football/Rugby/Cricket and it can be extended to special events like the Olympics both Summer and Winter, The Ryder Cup, World Cups, British Lion teams etc"


i know its offtopic but i cant control myself..

Allblacks,spain, brit cycling track, aussie cricket( a decade or two ago) teams- over any f1 or horse racing teams!!

Shelsey

I don't think we are all that far apart on this - I think Maradona deserves to progress in our discussions at the moment but that his character flaws should be counted against him as we get further through the process of finding a GOAT.

Also, the other difference is you're taking a more absolute view of character whereas I'm considering it more in context of the sport - even a minor indiscretion counts strongly against cricketers, golfers, smooker players etc where behaviour and honesty are expected, whereas for me a footballer cheating a bit is no big deal because it is how the game is played (even if in an ideal world it wouldn't be).

An interesting group.

Bobby Jones undoubtedly had a massive impact on golf, but we are looking for the greatest of all time, not for the one who made the most impact (if it was a HoF discussion then Jones would be a shoe-in). In that context he wouldn't be amongst my top 3 golfers of all time, and with such good competition I can't seriously consider him.

For the moment I am genuinely not sure between the other 3, so will wait and see how the debate shapes up before voting.

Gareth Edwards is IMO the best ever in his position. Whether he is the greatest ever rugby player full-stop is impossible to judge, how do you judge his merits over those of say Richie McCaw or Christian Cullen? The issue with Edwards is of course he never had the opportunity to win the highest accolade possible for his sport (this is not his fault, but remains a concern against the likes of Maradona and McCoy). He did however win everything he could, and numerous times. And THAT try is easily the equivalent of THAT goal by Maradona for me. Unlike Maradona, there was no question mark over his character or his longevity.

Onto Maradona then. Arguably the greatest footballer of all time, and football is after all the most global sport. I am less concerned with the hand of god in itself (it is a heat of the moment thing, not premeditated - of course it is blatant cheating and very poor, but...) as with his subsequent lack of remorse and stupid comments about it. That to me shows a real nasty streak which sits uncomfortably with me. Then there is the drugs issue. And finally there is the point that Maradona was at the top of his game for a relatively short period of time (I would argue that his impact on the 90 WC is vastly overrated - he was an average player in a poor argentinian team who got to the final in a poor WC). So there are concerns there.

McCoy, well I know of his record which sets him apart from the rest in a way few other sportsmen have been, and am reading with interest. Unlike others in past threads I am perfectly happy to vote for people in a sport I know nothing about, if I am convinced that their case is worthy. In fact undoubtedly of all the candidates McCoy has the best record here (of course with the caveat that 2 of the other contenders play in team sports). Perhaps someone with the technical knowledge could answer the following 3 questions:
- what does a jockey actually do? In other words, what difference does he make, and why is his job so hard?
- How much/little influence does a jockey have compared to say a racing driver? Is the comparison valid at all?
- Is it usual for a jockey to have such a long career as McCoy or is he a one-off in this as well?

Slowride wrote:Why do these polls keep disappearing from the global lists on each forum?

They are global (well the current day's one is) - you have to page down below the list of sub-folders in some sections to see the global announcements.

I've gone for Maradona. Simply put he is in the top 2 players ever in the most competitive global sport there is. Maybe not my overall sporting GOAT but is well up there.

i am no expert on jockeys.

But.

Jockeys are allways at work to maintain a light weight- like a boxer in a way.
jockeys do have quite abit of influence.. weight is clearly an issue. but also when to sprint the horse- timming- like cycling in a way.

they have to be areodynamic as well.

Clearly the skill isnt the same as an f1 driver. But it is very hardcore stuff. Its very dangerous- probally more so than F1 these days and they certainly get a buzz out of it.

Its not just simply being small and light.. there is more to it. Not sure how much more- but certainly more..

BTW - has anyone volunteered to do the write up for Stephen Hendry as I would be keen on that?

Even though I don't, neccessarily, believe that Maradona is the greatest footballer of all-time, I've still voted for him here.
As football is, by far, the most popular and contested sport in the world, I reckon it's only fair that the top 4-5 players in the sport should have preference in this process over even the greatest players from more niche sports, unless those players have an extraordinary case.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Slowride wrote:Why do these polls keep disappearing from the global lists on each forum?

They are global (well the current day's one is) - you have to page down below the list of sub-folders in some sections to see the global announcements.

Not that. The global announcement flag keeps getting lost. Happened other days too. When I found it in the GOAT forum it definitely wasn't global.

Slowride wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Slowride wrote:Why do these polls keep disappearing from the global lists on each forum?

They are global (well the current day's one is) - you have to page down below the list of sub-folders in some sections to see the global announcements.

Not that. The global announcement flag keeps getting lost. Happened other days too. When I found it in the GOAT forum it definitely wasn't global.

Weird.

No idea why that's happening sorry.

VTR wrote:BTW - has anyone volunteered to do the write up for Stephen Hendry as I would be keen on that?

I'd like to put myself forward to do the write up for Marco Gabbiadini.

Tough group. Much as I'm tempted to go for Edwards, I'm afraid it has to be Maradona.

navyblueshorts wrote:Tough group. Much as I'm tempted to go for Edwards, I'm afraid it has to be Maradona.

Hope you feel dirty after that

anyone contemplting voting for edwards or marradona should go edwards!

marrodna is allready through.

sorry to be abit controversial!!

If Edwards wants to be the GOAT he needs to get through on his own merits not by charity votes from Maradona fans.

DHLS07 wrote:If Edwards wants to be the GOAT he needs to get through on his own merits not by charity votes from Maradona fans.

not really the point i was making. just saying if you are stuck between them!!

mystiroakey wrote:anyone contemplting voting for edwards or marradona should go edwards!

marrodna is allready through.

sorry to be abit controversial!!

I don't think that's right. You pick who you think is the better candidate. If you feel Maradonna is the best candidate, however slim the margin is, then you should vote for him. I don't like the idea of tactical voting, ie "I think candidate A is more worthy than candidate C but C is ahead of A in the poll so I'll vote for A even if I think candidate B is the strongest of this group".

Football has totally lost any sliver of lustre it ever had for me. I can appreciate a good game, although I might not have the patience to watch it all, but the game is so rife with pettiness, cheating, poor sportsmanship, ref abuse and downright unpleasant characters and childish fans that I couldn't give a toss about it anymore other than playing it.
I can appreciate there a GOATs in Football, but it doesn't mean a footballer should take priority on the basis that its the most popular sport.

SR do you actually like sport?

super_realist wrote:Football has totally lost any sliver of lustre it ever had for me. I can appreciate a good game, although I might not have the patience to watch it all, but the game is so rife with pettiness, cheating, poor sportsmanship, ref abuse and downright unpleasant characters and childish fans that I couldn't give a toss about it anymore other than playing it.
I can appreciate there a GOATs in Football, but it doesn't mean a footballer should take priority on the basis that its the most popular sport.

Surely it has some precedence?

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:anyone contemplting voting for edwards or marradona should go edwards!

marrodna is allready through.

sorry to be abit controversial!!

I don't think that's right. You pick who you think is the better candidate. If you feel Maradonna is the best candidate, however slim the margin is, then you should vote for him. I don't like the idea of tactical voting, ie "I think candidate A is more worthy than candidate C but C is ahead of A in the poll so I'll vote for A even if I think candidate B is the strongest of this group".

better to get a better field for the later stages- better quality and better debate.. But yes as i said it was abit controversial..

TBH i think we need some more rugby lads on here to expalin edwards abit better- he needs the push, he was truely exeptional!

super_realist wrote:Football has totally lost any sliver of lustre it ever had for me. I can appreciate a good game, although I might not have the patience to watch it all, but the game is so rife with pettiness, cheating, poor sportsmanship, ref abuse and downright unpleasant characters and childish fans that I couldn't give a toss about it anymore other than playing it.
I can appreciate there a GOATs in Football, but it doesn't mean a footballer should take priority on the basis that its the most popular sport.

Well you can say all that, but the greatest footballer on the planet right now pretty much represents everything good about sport. He's incredibly talented, humble, a true team player and doesnt even really dive that often considering the treatment that he gets dealt.

Hero wrote:SR do you actually like sport?

just started wondering

Its not just sport either.. He could pick the bones out of Mother terresa an all!!


PS: love ya SR

Diggers wrote:

super_realist wrote:Football has totally lost any sliver of lustre it ever had for me. I can appreciate a good game, although I might not have the patience to watch it all, but the game is so rife with pettiness, cheating, poor sportsmanship, ref abuse and downright unpleasant characters and childish fans that I couldn't give a toss about it anymore other than playing it.
I can appreciate there a GOATs in Football, but it doesn't mean a footballer should take priority on the basis that its the most popular sport.

Well you can say all that, but the greatest footballer on the planet right now pretty much represents everything good about sport. He's incredibly talented, humble, a true team player and doesnt even really dive that often considering the treatment that he gets dealt.

I agree, seems like a good egg does Messi, however he merely extolls virtue which SHOULD be common to everyone, we shouldn't be praising Messi for being a normal, well adjusted, humble and honest player should we? It's merely what we expect of people who are decent. Sadly many are not, surely it takes more effort to be a nasty, cheating, ghastly, vulgar, player than it does to be normal?

Hero wrote:SR do you actually like sport?

Or indeed life.....

I do love sport, I just prefer playing it where the rubbish things about sport and sportsmen don't impact me.
Spectating as a past time is over-rated and a poor substitute for taking part.

"Spectating as a past time is over-rated and a poor substitute for taking part"

true but its a good lazy second best

mystiroakey wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:anyone contemplting voting for edwards or marradona should go edwards!

marrodna is allready through.

sorry to be abit controversial!!

I don't think that's right. You pick who you think is the better candidate. If you feel Maradonna is the best candidate, however slim the margin is, then you should vote for him. I don't like the idea of tactical voting, ie "I think candidate A is more worthy than candidate C but C is ahead of A in the poll so I'll vote for A even if I think candidate B is the strongest of this group".

better to get a better field for the later stages- better quality and better debate.. But yes as i said it was abit controversial..

TBH i think we need some more rugby lads on here to expalin edwards abit better- he needs the push, he was truely exeptional!

I'm a 'rugby lad' but the difficulty I have with voting for Edwards is that I don't consider him to be the greatest rugby player of all time, and nor do I consider him the best in his position. Therefore it's very difficult to vote for him in this debate.

super_realist wrote:I do love sport, I just prefer playing it where the rubbish things about sport and sportsmen don't impact me.
Spectating as a past time is over-rated and a poor substitute for taking part.

... Superfly throws out his extensive porn collection.

Thats fine DH no dramas.. But do you consider maradona to be the greatest footballer..

This truely is a good lineup. But maybe no true GOAT of there own sport. Allthough my argument is that Edwards is the closest in his sport

superflyweight wrote:

super_realist wrote:I do love sport, I just prefer playing it where the rubbish things about sport and sportsmen don't impact me.
Spectating as a past time is over-rated and a poor substitute for taking part.

... Superfly throws out his extensive porn collection.

you might not realise how poignant that is!!

mystiroakey wrote:Thats fine DH no dramas.. But do you consider maradona to be the greatest footballer..

This truely is a good lineup. But maybe no true GOAT of there own sport. Allthough my argument is that Edwards is the closest in his sport

Maradona in my opinion is tarnished by the drugs issue. That for me sets him lower now than Pele and Beckenbauer, so no I wouldn't say he is the best of all time in his sport. I would have him closer to that accolade than Edwards is in rugby though.

Any cricket posters up for doing a short article for tomorrows group?

We also have a number of boxers, golfers and tennis players throughout the comp that need articles, if you to get involved

Who's in tomorrows group?

Who are the 64 mate?

MtotheC wrote:Any cricket posters up for doing a short article for tomorrows group?

We also have a number of boxers, golfers and tennis players throughout the comp that need articles, if you to get involved

Happy to take the cricketer. And any snooker players!

Apologies guys but I'm going to be really annoying and not publish the list of competitors. One of the best parts is coming on in the morning to see who's included and what group there in, so I'm going keep a bit of mystery purely for presentation purposes!

VTR I'll send you a PM with details.

Cheers

Just a few points on the above.

I'm by far a bigger boxing that racing fan but jockeys have it much harder maintaining their weight. Outside of their camps a boxer can live a little and let himself go. McCoy has to maintain his weight 12 months a year. Read his diet in the OP its horrific. Also on Christmas day his calorie intake is 600 calories. The average person eats 6,000.

Also horse racing is very different to motor racing for the person who asked. A horse is a living creature that has feelings, moods and a temperament. A car should do what you want when you want and doesn't need to be calmed, cajoled or persuaded to react to your instructions in the same way a horse does. This makes controlling a horse much more unpredictable.

Gareth Edwards isn't the greatest rugby player ever. McCoy is easily the greatest jumps jockey off all time and if undecided deserves your vote.

MtotheC wrote:Any cricket posters up for doing a short article for tomorrows group?

We also have a number of boxers, golfers and tennis players throughout the comp that need articles, if you to get involved

If there are any track and field athletes without a write up Id have a crack.

mtothec- quite right, otherwise the debate could quite easily move away from the group of the day.
p.s. looking forward to group 8

I think Kwini should write up a golfer. He is an artist when it comes to stringing words together. I am more of your surrealist poet. You have to be stoned or drunk to understand whats going on. But then i could allways get my secretary to write one up for me. Hibbz where are ya?

paperbag_puncher wrote:Just a few points on the above.

I'm by far a bigger boxing that racing fan but jockeys have it much harder maintaining their weight. Outside of their camps a boxer can live a little and let himself go. McCoy has to maintain his weight 12 months a year. Read his diet in the OP its horrific. Also on Christmas day his calorie intake is 600 calories. The average person eats 6,000.

Very true I'm sure, but we arent voting for the best dieter in the world so Im not sure how much that really matters.

As long as it isn't Nine Chins Oakey.