Ireland's 6N training squad announcement (this wednesday)

First topic message reminder :

This Wednesday see's Declan Kidney announce possibly his final training squad for a competition as Ireland Head Coach. Indeed within the next 5 months or so Kidney's contract will expire and he may very well find himself looking for another job. Is this reason to throw caution to the wind? Many of us certainly hope so although some young and/or exciting players are now injured it looks like it will have less of a bang than it could have had if it had been announced 2 weeks ago.

Injuries rule out O'Connell which is a huge loss, as well as Marshall and Bowe who would have been hoping to be involved. Ferris is another who is out for what would appear most of the tournament if not the whole thing.

This time last year Kidney announced a 30 man training squad and a 23 man squad for the Wolfhounds game.

Ireland Training Squad (39):

Ireland Squad (club/province/international caps):
Michael Bent (Unattached/Leinster/2)
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster/62)
Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster/15)
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster/3)
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster/29)
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster/23)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster/71)
Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster/34)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster/23)
Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon /Ulster/2)
Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster/1)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster/35)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster/52) Captain
Iain Henderson (Queens University/Ulster/2)
Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster/4)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)*
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)*
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster/41)
David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster/2)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)*
Paul Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster/)*
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster/14)
Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht/6)
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster/16)
Dave McSharry (Galwegians/Connacht/)*
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster/22)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster/91)
Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster/120)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster/126)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster/9)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster/47)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster/24)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster/23)
Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster/34)
Lewis Stevenson (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster/)*
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster/2)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster/3)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster/49)
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster/3)

O'Donnell really deserves a start for the Wolfhounds after his performance yesterday

red_stag wrote:Mick - yes the primary intention is to get them to match sharpness according to management but there are additional benefits.

I don't see any benefit of having them playing against a second string Italy team and romping to a 40 point win.

I just dont see the reason for not playing them.

Potential Wolfhounds team:

Kilcoyne - Cronin - Bent
Stevenson - Toner
O'Donnell - O'Brien - Ruddock
Boss - Madigan
Fitzgerald - McSharry - BOD - McFadden
Kearney

I would say that team will hocky the Saxons out the gate.

I wouldn't mind seeing fitz starting for the wolfhounds because he could do with the gametime, but the others don't need to risked

I think O'Driscoll needs another game before Wales too

I think O'Driscoll DESPERATELYneeds more gametime he is looking really poor to me and with Earls and Cave both playing below par too, this is the last chance to get him up to speed.

He slipped off a few tackles at the weekend alright, but he's valuable in attack. Made more offloads than anyone and his hands for Kearney's try were tasty.

He never really threatened to break the defence though did he? I thought he was pretty poor versus Edinburgh and Scarlets to.

All three of the teams he has faced have been poor sides and he hasn't done that well

Drico may not have made many breaks yet but he has not been that bad. showed some lovely soft hands and offloads since his return. He is still a class act. I think Kidney is right to play him for Wolfhounds, same with the others with exeption of SOB who i would prefer wrapped in cotton wool.

given the freakish size of some of these polynesian backs (and welsh too) it is inevitable that even some of the toughest tackling smaller centres get put on their arse every now and then.

Drico is still a very good player. He isn't as good as he used to be but he was at one stage the best centre in world rugby. Still plenty to offer.

Delighted he isn't captain any more though. Should have been done a year ago.

it's not the lack of breaks so much as the lack of the threat of them

I see Enda McNulty is back working with Ireland again. I do seem to remember him working with BOD and ROG before, maybe he can help the lads get over this fear of playing and actually win something in a green jersey again....

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2013/0122/1224329144111.html

Looks like BOD is not playing this Friday because he has 176 mins where as Fitz needs the game time as he only has 206mins!

Looks like Madigan and Jackson are leading the ROG-Sexton pack.

Henshaw and Henderson look like they will be heavily involved too and Varley/Sherry are going to be given a chance to oust Sean Cronin

I think it was just them trying to sell tickets for the game. They were never going to play BOD. Its for the best aswell as we'll get to see someone new in the 13 jersey.

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:I see Enda McNulty is back working with Ireland again. I do seem to remember him working with BOD and ROG before, maybe he can help the lads get over this fear of playing and actually win something in a green jersey again....

He's certainly worked for Leinster before. He's a proven winner too, so he's seen things from both sides of the chaise longue...

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Looks like Madigan and Jackson are leading the ROG-Sexton pack.

They should be leading the Sexton-Sexton pack ....

The near certainty now is he (ROG) will be part of the Ireland squad for that opener in Cardiff and for the remainder of the Six Nations, with Paddy Jackson and Ian Madigan confined to duty with the Irish Wolfhounds against the English Saxons in Galway next Friday night

From Gerry Thornley.

Fking joke shop...

Common sense would say to chose as many Leinster players for Cardiff as you can get away with as they will have a massive point to prove. I wouldn't have ROG in the 23. I'm sure he above all others could be divisive without even trying.

If Goebbels Thornley says it then it is nearly always true. I remember the time in the days of yore when he was a good journalist and not a mouth piece for the Irish management team. Jackson may not be at his best at the moment but he has still had a better season than ROG whose time in green had past last season never mind this. Hopefully that will be the only thing to complain about come the Welsh game.

Glas, I’d say the best team (right now) already includes a good few Leinster players.

Healy – Best – Ross
Ryan – McCarthy
Henry – Heaslip – SOB
Murray – Sexton
Zebo – Darcy – BOD – Gilroy
Kearney

That’s 8 already, and our best team would include maybe 3 or 4 more on the bench (one of them displacing ROG).

I agree, but Deccie would rather resign I suspect.

Does the fact that ROG is on a central contact make him undropable?
He isn't there because of his form anyway.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Does the fact that ROG is on a central contact make him undropable?
He isn't there because of his form anyway.

There are examples of players on central contracts who were dropped for non contracted players, but it certainly doesn't make it any easier for him to be dropped.

These days I wouldn't even have ROG on the Munster bench.

The most amazing thing about him playing for Ireland lately is Kidney always calls him off the bench. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are, ROG comes on for a few min. Thats not being anti ROG. The man is a few years past his best 'before date' and you could argue he is past his 'sell by' date now too.

The IRFU might be far from blameless here too. It might have something to do with central contracts. If a player is on a central contract then the Irish coach has to pick him. They've done alot of good for Irish rugby but they're also stuck with old habits and seem to interfere too much with team selection.

I have to be honest and suspect that this will be the side against Wales.

Healy – Best – Ross
Ryan – McCarthy
O'Mahony – Heaslip – SOB
Murray – Sexton
Zebo – Darcy – BOD – Earls
Kearney

That is a Kidney selection.

profitius wrote:These days I wouldn't even have ROG on the Munster bench.

The most amazing thing about him playing for Ireland lately is Kidney always calls him off the bench. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are, ROG comes on for a few min. Thats not being anti ROG. The man is a few years past his best 'before date' and you could argue he is past his 'sell by' date now too.

The IRFU might be far from blameless here too. It might have something to do with central contracts. If a player is on a central contract then the Irish coach has to pick him. They've done alot of good for Irish rugby but they're also stuck with old habits and seem to interfere too much with team selection.

Its pretty unusual for any players not to get a few minutes off the bench unless its a very tight game and it will upset the whole thing. I guess it has to do with team morale. Its would be very demoralising for any player to prepare to go play and then left to rot on the benchfor a run of four or five games. Wouldn't help in being prepared if needed to cover an injury if you haven't played any rugby in 4 or 5 weeks either.

ROG is a crowd puller anyway. Funny how he always gets a great cheer when he comes on for Ireland.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Does the fact that ROG is on a central contact make him undropable?
He isn't there because of his form anyway.

You think any of the others deserve to be there on form? None of Jackson, Madgan or Keatley seem to be first choice at their club (Jackson dropped to the bench last weekend). If O'Gara wasn't suspended, he too would have been starting for munster.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2013/0122/1224329144111.html

Looks like BOD is not playing this Friday because he has 176 mins where as Fitz needs the game time as he only has 206mins!

BOD has over 100 test caps. Luke has about 20. At least BOD was playing earlier in the season. Luke has been out for nearly a year hasn't been involved in an Irish squad since before the world cup.

Sin é wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Does the fact that ROG is on a central contact make him undropable?
He isn't there because of his form anyway.

You think any of the others deserve to be there on form? None of Jackson, Madgan or Keatley seem to be first choice at their club (Jackson dropped to the bench last weekend). If O'Gara wasn't suspended, he too would have been starting for munster.

That was more to do with Jackson carrying a knock than not being first choice. This was seen when he eventually came on and our game improved exponentially. Jackson is playing much better rugby than ROG.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:If Goebbels Thornley says it then it is nearly always true. I remember the time in the days of yore when he was a good journalist and not a mouth piece for the Irish management team. Jackson may not be at his best at the moment but he has still had a better season than ROG whose time in green had past last season never mind this. Hopefully that will be the only thing to complain about come the Welsh game.

He is a sports reporter. That includes reporting on how/what the Irish management think. Plenty of people giving opinions doing the rounds.

BelfastDickVet wrote:

Sin é wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Does the fact that ROG is on a central contact make him undropable?
He isn't there because of his form anyway.

You think any of the others deserve to be there on form? None of Jackson, Madgan or Keatley seem to be first choice at their club (Jackson dropped to the bench last weekend). If O'Gara wasn't suspended, he too would have been starting for munster.

That was more to do with Jackson carrying a knock than not being first choice. This was seen when he eventually came on and our game improved exponentially. Jackson is playing much better rugby than ROG.

Doesn't matter - he isn't fit to play then. Neither does he have a Pienaar to hold his hand (and take the pressure off if his kicking isn't going well).

Thornley was never a great rugby journalist. Not in my opinion anyway.

GunsGerms wrote:Thornley was never a great rugby journalist. Not in my opinion anyway.

He isn't a columnist - he is a correspondent who records/reports. The Irish Times have a couple of columnists giving opinion like Matt Williams, Liam Toland and Alan Quinlan.

Michael Corcoran would be an equivalent for radio who would have Tony Ward, Donal Lenihan to do the analysis.

I have no problem with ROG on the Irish bench for the 6N. (providing Sexton doesn't go down injured v Wales France or England after 10 mins)

He has enough in him to close out a few games no worries. (and as has been said he will keep a lot of casual fans and G Hook happy)

What worries me is that he or Dekko may get an extension on their Ireland contracts.

Things have gone very quiet on Dekko being replaced......

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:I have no problem with ROG on the Irish bench for the 6N. (providing Sexton doesn't go down injured v Wales France or England after 10 mins)

He has enough in him to close out a few games no worries. (and as has been said he will keep a lot of casual fans and G Hook happy)

What worries me is that he or Dekko may get an extension on their Ireland contracts.

Things have gone very quiet on Dekko being replaced......

Yikes that could be the plot for the next Scream movie.

A lot of ppl feel ROG should be dropped for Munster as well.

Also, who cares if ROG is a crowd puller?? If he isn't playing well enough to play he shouldn't be there (and this is clearly the case). Mads, Jackson and Keatley are all better rugby players. The only thing ROG has is goal kicking. His defense, strength, passing, attacking the line, decision making (he ALWAYS kicks the ball away!!) are so far below par that his strengths are completely nullified. Also he comes on for D'Arcy so Sexton is still on the pitch and normally continues with the kicking.

So what does he offer when on the pitch?? So we'll kick the ball even more in the last 10min, great give the opposition more ball to attack our tired (and now weaker) defence.

This is not an attack on ROG at all, this is directed towards the mgt team that continue to select him week in week out. ROG has every right to put himself forward for selection, he has a living to make and it's a short one so he should make it last as long as he can. I have no doubt he is doing the best he can in order to win (always has), but his best is no longer good enough and the selectors need to realise this. This is a results business, if he can't provide it, he needs to be dropped. We have young players who are showing potential. We are 2.5 years from the next WC, we need to see if they can step up.

Do you see the ABs keep players past their sell by date because of what they used to do???

Wolfhounds squad:

Michael Bent (Dublin University/Leinster/2)
Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster/15)
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster/3)
James Coughlan (Dolphin/Munster)*
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster/29)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster/23)
Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon /Ulster/2)
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster/2)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)*
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)*
Ian Keatley (Young Munster/Munster/2)
David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster/2)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)*
Paul Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)*
Kevin McLaughlin (St.Mary's College/Leinster/5)
Dave McSharry (UCD/Connacht/)*
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster)*
Rhys Ruddock (St. Mary's College/Leinster/1)
Mike Sherry (Garryowen/Munster)*
Lewis Stevenson (Malone/Ulster)*
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster/3)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster/49)
Damien Varley (Garryowen/Munster/2)

Don't understand the inclusion of Trimble to be honest...? But that's a good squad.

Mickado wrote:Don't understand the inclusion of Trimble to be honest...? But that's a good squad.

Probably means Gilroy is ahead of him for Ireland, but he is being given this chance?

Trimble has been in the best form of his life, arguably the form Irish 3/4 this season. He and Zebo are miles ahead of anyone for the wing spots on current form imo.

Court - Varly - Fitzpatrick
Stevenson - Toner
Ruddock - Coughlan - O'Donnell
Marshall - Madigan
Fiztgerald - McSharry - Cave - Trimble
Henshaw

Sherry - Kilcoyne - Bent - Henderson - McLaughlin - Boss - Jackson - Keatley

That's nay a bad oul team for the Wolfhounds...

rodders wrote:Trimble has been in the best form of his life,for Ulster arguably the form Irish 3/4 this season. He and Zebo are miles ahead of anyone for the wing spots on current form imo.

The old Shane Jennings argument.

A bit odd to have 3 OH's in the squad but it should be a strong Wolfhounds team.I'd love to see McSharry and Henshaw get their chance.

So that looks like:
David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster/2)
Mike Sherry (Garryowen/Munster)*
Michael Bent (Dublin University/Leinster/2)
Lewis Stevenson (Malone/Ulster)*
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster/3)
Kevin McLaughlin (St.Mary's College/Leinster/5)
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster)*
James Coughlan (Dolphin/Munster)*
Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster/15)
Ian Keatley (Young Munster/Munster/2)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster/23)
Dave McSharry (UCD/Connacht/)*
Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster/3)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster/49)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)*

Damien Varley (Garryowen/Munster/2)
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster/29)
Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon /Ulster/2)
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster/2)
Rhys Ruddock (St. Mary's College/Leinster/1)
Paul Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)*
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)*
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)*


Trimble - seriously????

Kilcoyne is bound to start as he was preferred to Court in the Autumn. Can't see big Tom getting more than 15 minutes.

Madigan is probably seen as much as 15 cover as flyhalf. Surely Jackson will be on the pitch with Marshall, or they will share the bench?

Unless Declan goes totally left field and plays Trimble in the centre, it looks as though Andy is being given a clear message that he won't get another full cap under Kidney. Why wasn't this opportunity given to a new prospect?

Sin é wrote:

BelfastDickVet wrote:

Sin é wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Does the fact that ROG is on a central contact make him undropable?
He isn't there because of his form anyway.

You think any of the others deserve to be there on form? None of Jackson, Madgan or Keatley seem to be first choice at their club (Jackson dropped to the bench last weekend). If O'Gara wasn't suspended, he too would have been starting for munster.

That was more to do with Jackson carrying a knock than not being first choice. This was seen when he eventually came on and our game improved exponentially. Jackson is playing much better rugby than ROG.

Doesn't matter - he isn't fit to play then. Neither does he have a Pienaar to hold his hand (and take the pressure off if his kicking isn't going well).

What about the Munster back row holding ROG's hand defensively his entire career. I would rather an injured jackson in our defensive line then the human speed bump that is ROG. also jackson has a bit of flair and can get a back line moving, rather than just hoofing the ball up field like the (current) one dimenstional ROG. Jackson is benched for one game and sin e reckons he is no longer first choice, reactionary or what.

ROG is an Irish legend who is simply past his prime.

Sin E you must see that we are building for the next World Cup, and there are players who are going to be in contention for that tournament that would benefit greatly from ROG's bench spot as he won't be around for 2015. An I don't just mean Jackson, I would also include the magnificent madigan and the improving keatly.

Will Henshaw start?

I suspect we will see Jackson at 10, Madigan at 15 and Keatley at 22.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:I have no problem with ROG on the Irish bench for the 6N. (providing Sexton doesn't go down injured v Wales France or England after 10 mins)

He has enough in him to close out a few games no worries. (and as has been said he will keep a lot of casual fans and G Hook happy)

What worries me is that he or Dekko may get an extension on their Ireland contracts.

Things have gone very quiet on Dekko being replaced......

Dekko is setting Team Ireland up for his successor (my bet is Les Kiss) by sorting out the captaincy and now Enda McNulty to do the psychology stuff that he did. I'd imagine Dekko is going to get the new IRFU's Director of Rugby that will oversee the professional game in Ireland.

(to be honest, I wouldn't be happy with Madigan, Jackson coming off the bench 10 minutes into a game against France or Wales. At least O'Gara is used to dealing with taking the flac if/when it goes wrong.

BelfastDickVet wrote:

Sin é wrote:

BelfastDickVet wrote:

Sin é wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Does the fact that ROG is on a central contact make him undropable?
He isn't there because of his form anyway.

You think any of the others deserve to be there on form? None of Jackson, Madgan or Keatley seem to be first choice at their club (Jackson dropped to the bench last weekend). If O'Gara wasn't suspended, he too would have been starting for munster.

That was more to do with Jackson carrying a knock than not being first choice. This was seen when he eventually came on and our game improved exponentially. Jackson is playing much better rugby than ROG.

Doesn't matter - he isn't fit to play then. Neither does he have a Pienaar to hold his hand (and take the pressure off if his kicking isn't going well).

What about the Munster back row holding ROG's hand defensively his entire career. I would rather an injured jackson in our defensive line then the human speed bump that is ROG. also jackson has a bit of flair and can get a back line moving, rather than just hoofing the ball up field like the (current) one dimenstional ROG. Jackson is benched for one game and sin e reckons he is no longer first choice, reactionary or what.

Fair enough if you intend defending for the game. Anyone can supply the brawn. Its the brains/head to control the game that the outhalf really needs.

I'm going on the last couple of Jackson's games where he has been poor which I believe to be down to injury. Whether he is off form or injured will still affect his performance if he is needed early in a game in the 6Ns. I suppose Ireland could always drop Gilroy or Trimble to allow McFadden to start so that he could take the kicks.

ROG is an Irish legend who is simply past his prime.

Are you suggesting that Madigan & Jackson are now in their prime?

Sin E you must see that we are building for the next World Cup, and there are players who are going to be in contention for that tournament that would benefit greatly from ROG's bench spot as he won't be around for 2015. An I don't just mean Jackson, I would also include the magnificent madigan and the improving keatly.

I don't see what benefit it is to young players to sit on the bench for 5 game to get (hopefully) only 25 minutes of rugby in 6 weeks. Apart from the games being generally tight, Sexton sure doesn't like being substituted.

red_stag wrote:Will Henshaw start?

I suspect we will see Jackson at 10, Madigan at 15 and Keatley at 22.

Wouldn't like that at all,Madigan can do a job at 15 but why not use the specialist who's been playing better there.Madigan should be on the bench imo,Jackson to start.