PGA Tour: Ian Poulter - Overachiever or Underachiever?: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).With the PGA Tour season still in its infancy, and golfing galacticos in Abu Dhabi, in Palm Desert or still in hibernation, two people who can't get out of the headlines made news again last week with resumption of rhetorical love/hate between Ian Poulter and Johnny Miller.
Once the "Johnny miller why don't you come and interview me live and say that stuff straight to my face . . . . Was you watching a different channel" twitterage over inferences that Poults was a drama queen had been resolved, they get in to it again over whether IJP is an "overachiever" (Miller) or an "underachiever" (Poults).

2).Not the first time of course that Poults has taken umbrage at Miller's commentary - it was just three years ago that Miller was scorning Poulter's "ball striking" whereupon the player responded by forwarding Miller the Genworth stat's for the E.T., which showed him leading the ball-striking way.

3).Miller was a great player, probably a better golfer than his two-Major record would suggest: watched an old film once of him striping long irons on the Harbour Town range - left-handed!
A genius, at least until he reached the putting green. But he has made his fortune from broadcasting and Steve Eubanks' piece, linked here, is revealing and interesting:

http://www.pga.com/news/eubanks/miller-feud-fizzling

I liked Azinger's zinger from the 1991 Ryder Cup at Kiawah, calling Miller "the biggest moron". Then, backtracking, he offered that what he meant to call Miller was "the biggest Mormon".

4).Perhaps because he tends to favour American golfers, or perhaps it's that he prefers to take cheap shots and Europeans won't take it, it seems to be guys like Casey, Poults and Westwood who take exception these days.
But perceptions about "achievement" are interesting, what do you think about Poults?

5).Has he overachieved to have two WGC titles in his locker, not to mention a hatful of other titles outside America? He also has three highly creditable runners up finishes in The Open and The Players (possibly unlucky there, getting caught in some nonsense in Round 3 and losing strokes) and an Amex WGC.
Or should he have done more, on the PGA Tour at least? He's yet to reach the Tour Championship despite having an enviable record of consistency including not having a missed cut since September 2011.

6).He's been consistently outstanding in the Ryder Cup, but has seldom contended in Majors, his runner-up to Harrington and his flash of front-nine brilliance at Kiawah notwithstanding. His PGA Tour record is:
Tournaments played: 149
Cuts made: 115 (77%)
Top 25's: 57 (38%)
Top 10's: 26 (17%)
Top 3's: 8: (5%)

7).Was Miller right about Poults's "ball striking' (total driving plus greens in reg)? Miller tends to forget there's golf outside the States except for Ryder and Pres.Cup jollies, so in his myopic eye he's right. Poulter's Tour rank these past eight years has been mediocre at best:171st in his first year (2005) and since then: 29th, 185th, 194th, 164th, 174th, 118th and 131st.
Not exactly anything to Tweet home about. But his European Tour record has been consistently better. Perhaps an undue proportion of "Tour" outings are on more difficult courses than for the average player? Quite probably.

8).What's the Poulter outlook looking forward then? He'll continue to play the biggest tournaments so that his chances of winning are somewhat diminished. (Hartford suits him down to the ground, though.)
Unless he wins, he's not likely to play enough to prosper in the FedEx Play-Offs. But he'll still be a MatchPlay genius, the Piggott-, Woods-like will to win, especially at Ryder Cup level will cause him to stand apart. And continue to be a golfing enigma.

9).Ross Fisher and David Lynn embark on their PGA Tour odyssey this week, at the "Humana Challenge", where they'll be joined by Messrs Davis and Owen (bad missed cuts for both last week) and Martin Laird (who?). Laird finished 14th last year, but how much rust has crept in to his game? We'll see soon enough, but The Laird needs a good finish or five, or he'll be watching the Majors on TV.
Very good to see Brett Quigley and Lucas Glover back in action.
Difficult to have strong feelings about likely winners here, but perhaps unwise to ignore the most recent form of Tim Clark, my very lukewarm fancy who has two second-place finishes here.
But if Russell Henley (Snedeker-like?) putts like he did last week he may win 25 times this year.

10).And the Champions Tour season revs up this week, only in first gear as the "Mitsubishi Electric Championship" has just forty runners, many of them there by invitation rather than merit. But that didn't diminish the quality of shot-making three years ago when Watson just edged out Couples.
All the Russell Henleys in the world couldn't compete with that exhibition.

mystiroakey wrote:I suppose it is alot easier to win on the Euro tour- I would give him 4 wins straight away!

Did you talk to Overton about that???

I think that you are taxed on where you win but don't forget that a lot of their money comes from endorsements and sponsorships so that is more likely to be taxed at their place of residence.

Although I think that when they are in Britain HMRC try and take a percentage of that income as well. Not sure how they do it and whether I am totally correct in saying that though.

oh that yank...nah.. Although he is a right numpty he is right in that case..

"don't forget that a lot of their money comes from endorsements and sponsorships so that is more likely to be taxed at their place of residence. "

very true however his endorsement payments will be based on his pga appearances at the moment. He wont be able to recieve the same amount on the euro tour

If Putin gives him Russian citizenship he can play on the European RC team I guess. But do we want him?

Is it possible he will announce his retirement?

pedro wrote:If Putin gives him Russian citizenship he can play on the European RC team I guess. But do we want him?

I think the only player with a worse RC record than Mickelson is Nine Chins.

twoeightnine wrote:I think that you are taxed on where you win but don't forget that a lot of their money comes from endorsements and sponsorships so that is more likely to be taxed at their place of residence.

Although I think that when they are in Britain HMRC try and take a percentage of that income as well. Not sure how they do it and whether I am totally correct in saying that though.

Yes, the UK taxes a share of endorsement income - supposed to represent the amount attributable to performing sponsorship duties in the UK (mainly playing in a tournament whilst wearing logo'd clothing etc).

I don't think other countries do this, which would explain why it's so controversial.

and it oculd be a reason why we have hardly any events in the uk these days.. Its a real shame..

especially when we see most euro events with no crowds.., the only time we get real crowds is at wenty, scottish open or the open!!

Not a chance Mac!

There are eight or nine US States without State Income Tax but the only realistic destinations for Phil, you'd think, would be Florida, Nevada or Texas.

He's unlikely to get much sympathy in California because Jerry Brown is close to achieving a "balanced budget" after Schwarzenegger and his predecessors had overseen a generation of deficits, emigration and wholesale reduction in public services.

I think Phil needs an accountant . . . . . . .

mystiroakey wrote:and it oculd be a reason why we have hardly any events in the uk these days.. Its a real shame..

especially when we see most euro events with no crowds.., the only time we get real crowds is at wenty, scottish open or the open!!

It probably explains why tournaments are so popular in the Middle East as not only have they got the prize money but I suspect that they are far more benevolent to pro sportsmen turning up and not paying tax.

Someone may be able to correct me but I sure that I remember something about when the Champions League (football) final was in London HMRC had to waive taxation. I think it was part of the conditions of bidding to hold it. Or am I thinking about the Olympics?

Precisely the reason the UK has fewer golf tournaments and why people like Garcia don't turn up unless it's a major, it can actually end up costing them money to play.

Well he could move to Dubai or the like. Play the 8 co-sanctioned events, RC/PC, the desert swing, the Scottish, the Asian events he plays anyway (Singapore+China), a few in the US, and wupti, with 20-odd events he'll play both tours.

I think its both two time.. But your definintly right about the oylmpics

FIGJAM Phil, the disillusioned millionaire!

Shotrock wrote:FIGJAM Phil, the disillusioned millionaire!

Who wouldn't want to pay less tax?

who wouldnt?

exactly, but phil whinging about it in the press is abit sickening tbh..

I dunno, we criticise sportspeople for being boring and saying nothing and when they do say something we criticise them too.

maybe.. Id rather him speak out i suppose. But cant he bang on about how much he hates nine chins instead?

mystiroakey wrote:maybe.. Id rather him speak out i suppose. But cant he bang on about how much he hates nine chins instead?

That would be good. At least Mickelson appears to enjoy playing golf.

Super - I agree with that ... for anyone who does not think they are paying enough taxes, simply leave a very healthy tip for the clerk next time you buy your stamps!

But Phil -- he of the ever calculated press response -- should probably have thought this through more carefully. A few millionaire friends will be patting him on the back and muttering "I hear you old boy" ... but many more of his supposed fan base will be uttering "WTF"?

Sr,
Think you're being generous when you talk about his fan base - they'll, demographically at least, agree with Phil.
As will the golfing media who are ultra right-wing, anti-tax ne'er-do-wells who have already moved to Florida to avoid the exact same taxes (or some very much like it) that Phil is rumbling about.
You'll remember Tiger Woods's complaints about California's taxes from last autumn . . . . . .

I imagine that, somewhere in Sacramento, Jerry Brown will be rubbing his hands and preparing a press release which shows Phil is over-reacting.

mystiroakey wrote:I think its both two time.. But your definintly right about the oylmpics

Correct - special legislation introduced for Champions League finals and the Olympics. Various lobbying has been going on over the years to do so for other top tier events (e.g. Wales Ryder Cup, ATP Tour Finals at O2) without success.

HM Treasury seem reluctant to accept the evidence that the hard line on endorsement income is driving certain top sportspeople away (some of the ALLEGED are Sergio Garcia, Federer, Nadal... and certainly Usain Bolt), with resultant impact on level of interest / future prospects for holding events in UK etc.

McLaren wrote:Whats with the odd Phil Mickelson press conference?

http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/8863956/phil-mickelson-hints-big-course-changes

There are a few more reports of his cryptic message.

If anyone pays 62-63% tax in the U.S. I'll be gobsmacked. Can any of our cross-Pond brethren provide some more light to these sort of numbers from Phil? He never struck me as having the full complement upstairs so he could have meant anything.

Relating to Poulter, he's achieved what he's achieved. He's obviously got enough talent to do very well and the drive to maximise it.

nbs,
I suggested earlier that he needs to review his arithmetic and/or get an accountant.

But what is without much doubt is that California is introducing a tax on "millionaires" to help redress the balance of its under-funded public (not in the way you think of them of course!) school system.
Perhaps his children attend private schools and he doesn't want to pay for the riff-raff?

Doesn't seem a lot of point in speculating, we'll find out what Phil plans to do when we find out. Sounds like he hasn't decided himself yet, so what chance have we got of second-guessing him? I'd suggest talk of a complete retirement is a bit far-fetched though, seeing as playing golf is how he earns his millions to begin with that'd be taking cutting off his nose to spite his face to extremes.

Not sure what else there is to take from this week though; Howell did what Howell generally does, and for all the talk on pgatour.com of Gay having extra length to his game I think it's more likely that a he's a steady journeyman picking up an occasional win, than someone likely to go on a Perry-esque late career surge.
Having not watched any of the golf last night, what did the Swedish guy Lingmerth look like? Wasn't expecting him to take to the tour this quickly, if I'm honest.

The reality is probably this:

.3960 Federal
.1330 State
.0235 Medicare (200k)

.5525 total

But listen, we're talking a MAJOR earner here. Net worth $180 Million. $48 Million annually. How can you not feel sorry for his burden?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonynitti/2013/01/21/golfer-phil-mickelson-may-call-it-quits-due-to-climbing-tax-rates/

NedB-H wrote:Having not watched any of the golf last night, what did the Swedish guy Lingmerth look like?

A Ribena berry

Didn't watch any of the early-round coverage though saw most of yesterday's.

Can't really take this event very seriously:
Ryan Palmer shot a Sunday 65 and moved up one place on the leaderboard.
Robbie Castro started his round in second place, shot even par and took home a cheque for 37th place.

Brian Gay will always be a player who can contend where accuracy is more important than length and the greens are Bermuda (as I assume they were this week, not sure to be honest). Great short game.
Not sure what to make about Lingmerth, but he played well at the Sony and will now be in the top half-dozen for the reshuffle next month.

Decent result for Stewart Cink - his T10 was his first top ten for TWENTY!! months. Amazing that Stewart Cink is still not forty. He looks about 55.
Justin Leonard and Stephen Ames also showing some decent early season form.

Assume some of Mickelson's assets are in stocks: Like most opponents of President Obama he will be reluctant to face up to the fact that his portfolio will have risen 85% during Barack Obama's four years.

Fact is, most of these tax-haters would prefer to pay no tax on no appreciation of their assets than 30% or whatever on 85% growth.

America the Beautiful!

Shotrock wrote:The reality is probably this:

.3960 Federal
.1330 State
.0235 Medicare (200k)

.5525 total

But listen, we're talking a MAJOR earner here. Net worth $180 Million. $48 Million annually. How can you not feel sorry for his burden?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonynitti/2013/01/21/golfer-phil-mickelson-may-call-it-quits-due-to-climbing-tax-rates/

Can't say I feel that sorry for his burden although 55.25% sounds pretty hefty if about right. Still, that makes it >$20M p/a take-home which isn't bad.

Ol' Phil could be taxed at 75% and would not for a minute notice a change to his lifestyle.

I've read some reports that this is a purely calculated tactic. Perhaps I've underestimated Phil. (And, for the record, I"m a "rounding error" to this guy.)

My guess is that he's trying to buddy up further to the republican party for a future career in politics. Or, maybe he'll go "offshore" and focus full time on his golf design business.

Mickelson clearly has a right to moan about taxes, as vulgar, tasteless and ill-advised as it might be, but no one is forcing him to live in America.

If he was so desperate to take home more of his money he could move to Monaco, Liechtenstein, Cayman Islands, UAE or even the UK where he would (if his figures are correct) pay less in tax.

I would be surpised if Phil hasn't thought well about his statement. He is to compare with a multi million dollar business, so I'm sure he doesn't just pull such statement from the hat.

One must also not forget that his wife recently went through cancer. So no matter how rich you are, he for sure must have taken his life up for revision.

Shotrock wrote:The reality is probably this:
.3960 Federal
.1330 State
.0235 Medicare (200k)

.5525 total

You also have to add 1.1% property taxes (On an 8M home, you pay 88,000), sales tax, etc.

Petty cash for Phil.
Cheap property taxes in Cal though, he'd pay at least double that on the West Coast of New England.
And we can only imagine at his "deductions".

Whenever golf and politics, or rather the politics of golfers is mentioned it deeply saddens me to hear that most of them are at the more extreme end of the GOP.

Super

It is not a case of anyone wanting to pay more tax, we all have a little sigh when we see what comes out the monthly pay check but I would hope most people on a better income realise they could afford to pay more and probably should. No matter how much you earn it is easy to get stuck in the trap of always wanting more without appreciating how well off you are.

I always suspected phil was the spoiled cry baby type and this only confirms that he is. No doubt he thinks he could better spend the money on his hand picked quasi religous foundation which aims to better the lives of the "right" type of american child.

I resent these new schemes at the Federal, State, and County levels to increase tax rate for people who make a little more than average. The new rate applies to those with 1M plus income. One million is not much of an earning in California.

I can understand Phil's irritation.

Tiger cries the same tears Mac, equal opportunity at the top.


Leff,
I remember the days working in San Jose when hourly workers would make two hour each-way commutes from the Modesto area, earning a relative pittance.
As a long-term unemployed, who spent many years working in Cal, a $M looks a lot of lucre to me. Times 48 (or whatever it is that Phil earns) and sympathy is wasted, on me anyway.

Kwini

Tiger has spoken about how happy he is to have witnessed a person of colour become president. He has mentioned that his father talked about hoping to see a black person lead the country and we all know how much influence his father had over him. No idea if Obama and tiger would see eye to eye on all policy but Tiger is definitely an Obama fan.

As deluded as it now seems we have to remember his father wanted tiger to transcend golf and represent a more equal opportunities america.

Kwini, Cost of real estate and living here in the La Jolla, Del Mar, Rancho, Torrey Pines, area is pretty high. Comfortable living needs at least 3M income. Of course, perceptions of 'comfortable living' may vary.

Leff
Yup, Had an office and manufacturing operation in Irvine too, with a corporate office in La Jolla; I understand the challenges, but also that they are all relative!

Mac,
Personally I find Obama as inspiring as he can sometimes be frustrating - he's often being successful, just having a tough time conveying it!
As for Tiger, I wonder if he'll ever be allowed to tell us what he really thinks?

Kwini

Would whatever tiger has to say even be worth listening to? A life of chasing tail in vegas nightclubs is hardly going to have made his the most interesting mind around.

I think Tiger would be very interesting to listen to, completely unplugged, as it were. Especially if one could challenge/debate his opinions. Not difficult to feel that he's the ultimate "bubble boy".

Kwini

I am now convinced ian carter just -badly - copies your work. This twitter exchange proves it.

Mcilroy tweeted

Rory Mcilroy ‏@McIlroyRory
I must say... I love watching Barack Obama make speeches! #inspiring

Carter responded wth

Iain Carter ‏@iaincartergolf
Wonder how many colleagues on the range share this view? “@McIlroyRory: I must say.. I love watching Barack Obama make speeches! #inspiring”

At least stephanie wei seems to be an obama fan.

Stephanie Wei ‏@StephanieWei
Maybe one? “@iaincartergolf: Wonder how many colleagues share view? “@McIlroyRory: I love watching Barack Obama make speeches! #inspiring””

McLaren wrote:Whenever golf and politics, or rather the politics of golfers is mentioned it deeply saddens me to hear that most of them are at the more extreme end of the GOP.

Super

It is not a case of anyone wanting to pay more tax, we all have a little sigh when we see what comes out the monthly pay check but I would hope most people on a better income realise they could afford to pay more and probably should. No matter how much you earn it is easy to get stuck in the trap of always wanting more without appreciating how well off you are.

I always suspected phil was the spoiled cry baby type and this only confirms that he is. No doubt he thinks he could better spend the money on his hand picked quasi religous foundation which aims to better the lives of the "right" type of american child.

Mac, There is nothing wrong with being wealthy or wealthier than the next man, and simply because you are doesn't mean that your hard work should be tugged from under you in preposterously high taxes to supplement those who are not fortunate enough to have good jobs or simply haven't tried hard enough.
People pay tax according to income, I appreciate earning more than I did a year ago and consequently pay more tax, but it doesn't suddenly give me a more altruistic or socialist streak. I pay more tax, that should be the end of it, I don't think my tax contribution percentage should rise too.

As for sportsmen, actors or musicians getting involved in politics like Sean Penn, Bonio , etc. What they know about politics can probably be written on the back of a postage stamp. They should stay out of it.

I have a feeling that Harrington has another big win inside him.

harrington?

he better not !

mystiroakey wrote:harrington?

he better not !

Maybe Doon means a WGC or two Mysti that way your bet is safe with SR