Wolfhounds v Saxons

First topic message reminder :

Sportsground in Galway Friday night.

Anyone else going?

Went to the last one 2 years ago in Ravenhill and had great crack. Fock all people there though. Probably the same this time or worse.

Cheap night out though. Hour and a half drive from Dublin. Cheap B&B.

If Tom Court is picked to cover tighthead like that pundit just suggested im gunna kill lol

neilthom7 wrote:He hasn't been in the game Leinster fan in attack

But thats always the excuse. Fitz didnt get much of the ball but still did some good things.

Cumbrian wrote:They keep saying it's been a poor game, I dunno. If they hold on this will be a very decent win for a very very inexperienced Saxons team.

What is the latest score? are the Saxons winning?

Arm for me.

Agree to disagree.

Ford looked poor, Daley canny. Wade long way from Int quality.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:They keep saying it's been a poor game, I dunno. If they hold on this will be a very decent win for a very very inexperienced Saxons team.

What is the latest score? are the Saxons winning?

Saxons won 14-10

No one Irish player did well really in truth. No one put their hand up for selection for the Wales opener. Very disappointing.

Not a lot mate, made a good tackle and some clearance kicks thats bout it really and he was probably in it more than Trimble, Bent should just have played himself out of that bench spot

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Arm for me.

Agree to disagree.

Ford looked poor, Daley canny. Wade long way from Int quality.

Saying ford looked poor is pretty harsh. I'd say he was average with a few good plays.

Rubbish. Bullied all over the park. Hard to assess the backs as the tight 5 were demolished.

Henshaw, McSharry, Jackson, Coughlan, O'Donnell and Fitzgerald looked good in the second half but pretty poor overall.

Well done Saxons, best of luck for the 6N lads

Was their any one player that was out standing tonight. Irish or not?

Did any player or rather who got man of the match tonight?

rodders wrote:Rubbish. Bullied all over the park. Hard to assess the backs as the tight 5 were demolished.

Henshaw, McSharry, Jackson, Coughlan, O'Donnell and Fitzgerald looked good in the second half but pretty poor overall.

Well done Saxons, best of luck for the 6N lads

And to you sir.

Bent was dreadful and yet Fitzpatrick got 10 minutes? Kilcoyne wrecked in the first half, Court marginally better but I don't think that was their fault. The back row largely anonymous. Marshall, as I could have predicted was dreadful. I can't understand other Ulster fans love affair with him. Jackson did ok. McSharry and Cave showed a few flashes but not much. Trimble not in the match thanks to Kidney's tactics. Fitzgerald in the match more but did approximately the same which is barely above zero. Henshaw did ok.

The only player who will come into contention from an Irish pov is fitzpatrick and that's because bent was useless. For all the plaudits our backrow got I dont recall a single turnover on the 2nd half.

Argentina or not i think we are in for a looooonnnngggg 6N

Only saw half the match, but from that thought Ireland had some quality defence and that Saxons, who had a fair amount of posession needed more invention in how they tried to break it down (maybe a function of only being together since Monday and quite a few new players in the squad), compounded by some shoddy handling and knock-ons.

Thought Simpson pepped things up a bit when he came on. Glad to see Kitchener doing well, his performance strengthens my belief that he should be the 4th EPS lock. Daly also looked pretty assured even though playing in probably his 3rd favourite position.

Thought the ref could have done with being a bit stricter on offences, particularly at the breakdown.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Bent was dreadful and yet Fitzpatrick got 10 minutes? Kilcoyne wrecked in the first half, Court marginally better but I don't think that was their fault. The back row largely anonymous. Marshall, as I could have predicted was dreadful. I can't understand other Ulster fans love affair with him. Jackson did ok. McSharry and Cave showed a few flashes but not much. Trimble not in the match thanks to Kidney's tactics. Fitzgerald in the match more but did approximately the same which is barely above zero. Henshaw did ok.

That is silly, Fitz did a lot more. Clearance kicks were good. Made yards in contact, offloaded well.

From an English point of view there were a couple of decent performances.

Nick Wood destroyed Michael Bent, it was a very one sided affair. I don't know if that is a good thing because I don't know much about Bent.

Graham Kitchener won MOTM and seemed to carry pretty well (although my stream was very choppy).

George Ford was very mixed. You had inch perfect kicks and stupid over kicks that trickled over the dead ball line.

Jordan Turner Hall was very poor.

Joel Tomkins was anonymous.

Christian Wade rarely got the ball.

Tom Biggs showed surprisingly good strength.

Elliott Daly made a few good takes from full back and a good some decent tactical kicks.

I'm a huge Fitzgerald fan and have been waiting for him to get fit and back into the side. I was hugely disappointed with him tonight. He was far from the worst though

Did any of our offloads go to hand. From what I saw they all went forward or to the opposition.

the only one I can think of that went to an opponent was trimble late on when we were chasing the game. Luke had a good one in the first half to O'Donnell

Can't comment on the first half. Fitz threw two at the man in the 2nd half which were knocked on. He wasn't alone. Trimble threw the pass you mention and anytime we got some momentum we either knocked on, ran in each others way or else lost it at the set piece.

The only other time was Hendersons double movement. We were shambolic truth be told. McSharry tackled well is about the best thing I could say about Ireland in that game

Bent and Varley were awful beyond belief.

I thought Marshall was excellent actually. Can't understand the criticism of him. He's better than Stringer, Boss, Murray and Reddan put together. Best box kicker in the NH, strong, lightning quick and excellent service....whats not to like?

We were quite good for the first 15minutes I felt as well.

I think the wing selection now has to come down to Fitz or Gilroy...

*Zebo guaranteed

rodders wrote:Bent and Varley were awful beyond belief.

I thought Marshall was excellent actually. Can't understand the criticism of him. He's better than Stringer, Boss, Murray and Reddan put together. Best box kicker in the NH, strong, lightning quick and excellent service....whats not to like?

Ehm...his passing quality...?

theslosty wrote:I think the wing selection now has to come down to Fitz or Gilroy...

*Zebo guaranteed

+1

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

rodders wrote:Bent and Varley were awful beyond belief.

I thought Marshall was excellent actually. Can't understand the criticism of him. He's better than Stringer, Boss, Murray and Reddan put together. Best box kicker in the NH, strong, lightning quick and excellent service....whats not to like?

Ehm...his passing quality...?

Damn I knew I forgot something.....

To be fair to Marshall he didnt have a great night passing but I don't think Boss was much better, no one played that well and I wouldn't take anything out of that game for wales except that Bent should not be there

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

theslosty wrote:I think the wing selection now has to come down to Fitz or Gilroy...

*Zebo guaranteed

+1

Any thoughts Pete?

Pretty sorry excuse for a game that was. Not too many positives at all. I have to say I thought O'Donnell played well though, probably had the highest tackle count on the team, carried well, and made a turnover or two that I can recall. Coughlan also had a very good game, he really did set the benchmark for the rest of his team and he was abrasive all night.

Why oh why did Kidney take off Henshaw so early though? And it is clear that he has pre-conceived ideas about when he is going to make substitutions regardless of how the game goes. Bent should not have been back on that pitch after half time. Kidney logic prevails yet again though..

Bent should not be included in the 23 for certain.

He can't handle himself in the scrums for the A side.

...he looked so good in that cameo against the Boks....

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

theslosty wrote:I think the wing selection now has to come down to Fitz or Gilroy...

*Zebo guaranteed

+1

Wings will be Zebo plus one of Gilroy and McFadden. Trimble and Fitzgerald look to be down the pecking order. Zebo is nailed on and rightfully so.

Sounds like I should be glad not to have to watch that match!

When is Trimbles central contract up? He won't get another one IMO. That is unless we get a new coach with fresh eyes and a fresh game plan that suits him. I expect he will be available for Ulster in February which suits me fine

Genuinely don't think McFadden is in the mix. Earls is though. I would still expect both Zebo and Gilroy to be retained though.

theslosty wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

theslosty wrote:I think the wing selection now has to come down to Fitz or Gilroy...

*Zebo guaranteed

+1

Any thoughts Pete?

Finding it pretty hard tbh bru.

Zebo is nailed on.
Trimble is not right for this Irish team (a new coach could completely change that)
Gilroy is looking luke-warm lately but has that star quality
Fitzgerald has had very little game time but has impressed me on every single opportunity and is very well rounded
McFadden is the form call I feel but has not played in over 2 weeks now
Earls has been poor-ish in the centre and hasn't played wing since before the AI's I think

Man I'm clueless. I think Zebo and Fitz with Gilroy on the bench maybe??????????

Just reading quickly through the thread I feel I should point out that it was p!ssing rain all day in the west. The pitch was very heavy and there was a strong wind there. I hoped for a good game with lots of tries but the weather went against it.

For Ireland the main concern was Bent struggling in the scrums. It ment a frustrating night for the looseheads who were looking to impress. The lineouts were going well until Varley came on. It shows the difference in quality between him and Sherry.

The backs were average. Bad conditions but they didn't do much. Luke Fitz was the best of the backs. He has leaped ahead of Trimble for the bench spot you'd feel. Marshall has a decent game I thought. As I said already it wasn't a game that suited backs.

The Ireland backrow played well.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

theslosty wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

theslosty wrote:I think the wing selection now has to come down to Fitz or Gilroy...

*Zebo guaranteed

+1

Any thoughts Pete?

Finding it pretty hard tbh bru.

Zebo is nailed on.
Trimble is not right for this Irish team (a new coach could completely change that)
Gilroy is looking luke-warm lately but has that star quality
Fitzgerald has had very little game time but has impressed me on every single opportunity and is very well rounded
McFadden is the form call I feel but has not played in over 2 weeks now
Earls has been poor-ish in the centre and hasn't played wing since before the AI's I think

Man I'm clueless. I think Zebo and Fitz with Gilroy on the bench maybe??????????

Zebo is nailed on yes.
Don't think Trimble has the skills for international rugby - in particular his kicking is atrocious.
Tempted to pick Gilroy but hasn't done much since Argentina.
Starting to think Fitz is the emerging candidate - I don't see any reason not to pick him right now - doesn't seem to have a major weakness.
MacFadden would only be a stop-gap realistically.
Earls has been unlucky as he is clearly not a centre but right now there is no way to justify his selection.

So for me Fitz to play 50 mins against Wales and Gilroy to play as an impact sub - I think that suits both players.

thought cave did ok too had that break which was our best of the match probably and defended well, as for whos in contention for wings we don't have a clue we all called for bent to be hooked after 20 he wasn't until 70 so what do we know about what kidney thinks

From an Irish perspective:
1. In a low scoring game where the scrum matters, Court is more effective than Kilcoyne
2. Sherry is progressing all the time, Varley has played his last time in a green shirt.
3. Bent is not Test class and needs to be nowhere near a green shirt for the foreseeable. Fitzpatrick obviously isn't fit enough. Same old same old.
4. Stevenson is an honest toiler who will try forever but lacks Test class.
5. Toner could have a future if Leinster back him.
6. McLaughlin put himself about. Henderson may have more potential but Kevin scored, Iain didn't - Hendo isn't ready yet. Ruddock was anonymous.
7. TOD would be better in an open game and is improving all the time
8. Coughlan was Ireland's MOTM, solid but unspectacular.
9. Marshall had a good game, with awful ball. Made a nuisance of himself at every opportunity. Boss looks a beaten docket and was overtaken by PM.
10, Jackson is not totally ready for provincial responsibility never mind the International stage. The experience will be good for him though.
11. Fitzgerald showed some nice touches but frustratingly kicks the ball away when he should back himself - won't be involved in the 6N.
12. McSharry put in a whole hearted performance in front of his home crowd. He was missed when Keatley anonymously replaced him.
13. Cave made a nice break but had little influence on the game.
14. Trimble like the rest of the backline saw little ball but was good in defence
15. Henshaw was the pick of the backs. A great learning experience for him and a stepping stone to higher honours - just not yet. Madigan doesn't look like a fullback by any definition of the position. He should have come on for the fatigued PJ instead.

Shows how easy it is to leapfrog players. I concur that Trimble isn't right for Deccies Ireland but take one guy who has been the form Irish winger in the league and heineken so far and then another guy who has had 5 games, was a star and one and decent in the others and he is ahead of him.

Baffles me. The only reason Gilroy is in the mix is his debut. He has been decent in most games and good against castres since but has been overshadowed by, surprise, surprise, trimble.

I just can't fathom this Ireland coaching ticket and what they are doing. I'm probably overeacting to a scratch side but by Christ that was an awful 40mins viewing

Kilcoyne clearly owned his side of the scrum given Bent was going backwards at a rate of knots but sure whatever.

Trimble given a chance does his usual and blows it.

The only player to come out on the plus side of the rest was Coughlan and even he gave up with the ineptitude of what was going on around him.

At the end I thought Rog and Sexton should have come on so we could have seen and compared all Irelands outhalf options at once, that would have been fun.

Dross

We watched the second half in Time warp.

I thought our back row did well in the first half.

Henshaw and Fitzgerald were good.

Does anyone have any idea what Kidney hoped to learn from our front row?

Was he hoping that Bent wouod suddenly be able to scrummage if he had a different LH or Hooker?

What did he learn from giving Fitzpatrick 10 minutes? What was the point of that?

So, we wasted 60 minutes or everyone in that scrum's time because it was impossible for anyone to do their job properly in reverse gear.

Do you think it's a matter of,

"Well we brought him all thia way and parachuted him in so he must be good despite all evidence to the contrary!"?



Oh, and, I think Henderson would have scored if Madigan hadn't eaten up all that space and time creeping across.

And! Paddy Jackson's ankle looked wrecked again!

MrsP wrote:We watched the second half in Time warp.

I thought our back row did well in the first half.

Henshaw and Fitzgerald were good.

Does anyone have any idea what Kidney hoped to learn from our front row?

Was he hoping that Bent wouod suddenly be able to scrummage if he had a different LH or Hooker?

What did he learn from giving Fitzpatrick 10 minutes? What was the point of that?

So, we wasted 60 minutes or everyone in that scrum's time because it was impossible for anyone to do their job properly in reverse gear.

Do you think it's a matter of,

"Well we brought him all thia way and parachuted him in so he must be good despite all evidence to the contrary!"?



Oh, and, I think Henderson would have scored if Madigan hadn't eaten up all that space and time creeping across.

And! Paddy Jackson's ankle looked wrecked again!

But Hendo would have never got the chance if Madigan didn't suck in the defender and give that offload.

DOD wrote:Kilcoyne clearly owned his side of the scrum given Bent was going backwards at a rate of knots but sure whatever.

Trimble given a chance does his usual and blows it.

The only player to come out on the plus side of the rest was Coughlan and even he gave up with the ineptitude of what was going on around him.

At the end I thought Rog and Sexton should have come on so we could have seen and compared all Irelands outhalf options at once, that would have been fun.

Dross

How did deccie manage to get the subs so wrong. 3 outhalfs in the squad and Jackson plays tge entire game. Its just beyond belief how you can feic up an A game so bad but he managed to do it. We learned nothing in that game.

Like I said, he seems to plan his substitutions before each game regardless of how the game pans out.

Do you think he sucked in the defence? I thought he pulled them across when he should have given the pass sooner.

profitius wrote:Just reading quickly through the thread I feel I should point out that it was p!ssing rain all day in the west. The pitch was very heavy and there was a strong wind there. I hoped for a good game with lots of tries but the weather went against it.

For Ireland the main concern was Bent struggling in the scrums. It ment a frustrating night for the looseheads who were looking to impress. The lineouts were going well until Varley came on. It shows the difference in quality between him and Sherry.

The backs were average. Bad conditions but they didn't do much. Luke Fitz was the best of the backs. He has leaped ahead of Trimble for the bench spot you'd feel. Marshall has a decent game I thought. As I said already it wasn't a game that suited backs.

The Ireland backrow played well.

Good man yerself.... a bit of perspective needed on here. Hard to assess everyone else when you have no set piece, especially in wet and windy conditions. Nothing else to see here.....

MrsP wrote:Do you think he sucked in the defence? I thought he pulled them across when he should have given the pass sooner.

At the time I did, guess ill have to watch it again.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

MrsP wrote:We watched the second half in Time warp.

I thought our back row did well in the first half.

Henshaw and Fitzgerald were good.

Does anyone have any idea what Kidney hoped to learn from our front row?

Was he hoping that Bent wouod suddenly be able to scrummage if he had a different LH or Hooker?

What did he learn from giving Fitzpatrick 10 minutes? What was the point of that?

So, we wasted 60 minutes or everyone in that scrum's time because it was impossible for anyone to do their job properly in reverse gear.

Do you think it's a matter of,

"Well we brought him all thia way and parachuted him in so he must be good despite all evidence to the contrary!"?



Oh, and, I think Henderson would have scored if Madigan hadn't eaten up all that space and time creeping across.

And! Paddy Jackson's ankle looked wrecked again!

But Hendo would have never got the chance if Madigan didn't suck in the defender and give that offload.

ARGH! Thanks you LFan! It wrecked my head what they were saying on RTE. Do they have no clue how rugby is played. Madigan had a 3 on 3 and used his pace to draw in 2 defenders creating a 2 on 1.

My face started melting when RTE began talking drivel

That must have been uncomfortable for you Pete!

I thought the move started well, he just kept going laterally for too long puling the defenders back onto the guys outside him.

MrsP wrote:That must have been uncomfortable for you Pete!

I thought the move started well, he just kept going laterally for too long puling the defenders back onto the guys outside him.

He quite literally did the opposite! The guy who was marking had to come in to take him because Madigan had escaped his man, that was the only reason Hendy made it as far as he did