Tennis to step up drug fight in light of Lance Armstrong scandal

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Lance Armstrong's admission that he took drugs to help him win all seven of his Tour de France titles has put performance enhancing substances in the spotlight.
Now tennis has been brought into the debate with former world number four Guy Forget claiming he was beaten by rivals who took drugs.
Three players - Ryan Newport from the United States, Bulgarian Dimitar Kutrovsky and Italian Filippo Calorosi - are currently suspended from playing for taking drugs and Forget believes they are not the only men on the circuit guilty of doping.
BBC Sport speaks to current and ex players, coaches and officials in charge of testing to try and discover if tennis has a drug problem.

Drugs in tennis

The Men's Tennis Council began drug testing in the late 1980s with the focus mainly on recreational drugs. The testing was extended to include performance-enhancing drugs when the ATP Tour was formed in 1990.

Guy Forget claims he played against rivals who had taken drugs
But Guy Forget, who was ranked the fourth best player in the world in 1991, is convinced he played against players who were doping.
He says: "I have lost matches against guys who beat me with an unfair advantage because they were taking drugs.
"For sure, it has happened. I can look at myself in the mirror knowing I have never taken anything.
"When I played there were no controls at all so why wouldn't you cheat the system."

The situation now

The International Tennis Federation (ITF) now leads a unified Tennis Anti-Doping Programme applying across all tennis events.
The ITF carried out 131 blood tests both in and out of competition in 2011, the last year for which figures are available. That was alongside 2,019 urine tests.
Now the ITF are planning to introduce an athlete biological passport (ABP) which allows officials to collect and compare biological data and spot variances that suggest doping.
“
I feel tennis is clean, I do very much. For the amount of times that we get tested throughout the year and as random as they are, definitely
”
Maria Sharapova
It is an improvement many in the game believe is needed.
Forget added: "I don't feel our sport is clean. I am sure now as we speak there are some guys that are cheating. You cannot say tennis is not touched by this poisonous thing.
"I think it is a minority probably, but that is why Roger Federer and the other guys says we should put more money into blood test and controls because we should fight this any way we can."
Australian coach Darren Cahill, who has coached Lleyton Hewitt and Andre Agassi in the past, says on Twitter: "Our testing program is inadequate. That's why no-one can stand up and speak out. It's gone backwards in recent years."
Current world number one Novak Djokovic recently complained the number of blood tests he has undergone has dropped in the last year.
He said: "I wasn't tested with blood for last six, seven months. It was more regularly in last two, three years ago. I don't know the reason why they stopped it."

Fighting back

Dr. Stuart Miller, who oversees the ITF's anti-doping programme, claims education as much as detection is the best way to cure the problems of drugs in sport.
But he is an advocate of plans to bring in an ABP to make it easier to find the drug cheats.
Miller says: "We think we can improve by introducing what is known as the athlete biological passport, which is a blood-based testing programme which allows you to establish individual baseline parameters.
"That is not in operation at the moment. But we're looking very, very closely at it and I think that there's a reasonably good chance that that will be operational probably towards the end of 2013.
"It takes a long time to set up. There's a number of constraints and conditions that you have to satisfy, you can't just turn a switch."
What is a athlete biological passport
An ABP is an electronic document about the athlete that contains certain biomarkers from through his career.

If these markers change dramatically from the historic levels it alerts officials that the athlete might be doping.

Miller went on to answer Forget's complaints.
"I think we need to put a couple of things into context," he said. "Firstly I think Forget answered his own question when he said back at the time when he was playing, anti-doping was very different.
"There was no such thing as the World Anti-Doping Agency, there was no list of prohibited substances that all the sports signed up to and actually tennis was one of the pioneering sports in introducing anti-doping testing back in Forget's time.
"Granted, it was for a different list of prohibited substances - it was mainly recreational substances - and he's right, there wasn't as much testing, but tennis was pioneering at that particular time. And it's come a long way since that time, when he was playing."

Is tennis clean?

The leading players have thrown their support behind initiatives to weed out rivals who use drugs to enhance their performance but many are content that the sport is not on a par with the level of doping that has been uncovered in cycling.
World number three Andy Murray says: "I think all sports are trying to improve their doping controls.
"If that's more blood testing or the biological passports, that's something we need to do and improve in tennis, as well.

The three men currently banned for drug taking
Filippo Calorosi (Ita)
Dimitar Kutrovsky (Bul)
Ryan Newport (USA)

Four time grand slam winner Maria Sharapova is confident she is competing on a level playing field.
The Russian says: "I feel tennis is clean, I do very much. For the amount of times that we get tested throughout the year and as random as they are, definitely."
Tennis great Martina Navratilova, who won 18 Grand Slam titles, accepts doping has taken place in tennis but not a large degree.
She says: "There is very stringent drug testing going on and it has to be done, because there obviously has been some cheating going on as a few people have been caught.
"But overall, I think we have a pretty clean sport. You know that Roger Federer or Rafael Nadal or any of those guys wouldn't do anything like what Lance Armstrong was doing.
"I think tennis is doing a pretty good job, at least from what I see."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/21139622

not sure about this one. thoughts?

Why dont we face the fact that as I have said on many occasions... even if Fuentes came up with a list of names of those who he has treated and Rafa´s name is not on it (and it WONT BE) the Rafa haters (and we know where they all are) will then ask how much did he pay Fuentes to leave his name off the list or who else was bribed not to publish it. Rafa will never be believed whatever he says or doesn´t say and in my view he is best saying nothing.
So imbl... you have proved nothing have you just keep fueling the conspiracy theories.. there are a whole group who will remain nameless that are sucking it up.

You can name me if you want.

I'll quite openly say that I think Nadal has doped for periods in his career. I would say, as a fan of many sports, that it's more outlandish to make a statement saying that you think Nadal has been 100% clean throughout his career than saying that he's taken PEDs.

Oh dont worrry Ive already named you..a long long time ago.

It doesn't bother me.

It's just we've had years of all this with Lance Armstrong fans, and for years the people who even suggested there was a problem would get jumped on for being 'haterz' and for being jealous, and given it the whole 'no failed tests' or 'you've got no evidence' rubbish.

I see striking parallels and it would be no shock if it all ended up like that eventually.

There are parallels indeed but that does not constitute compelling evidence at all, in other words one person was suspected and then guilty and then another was suspected and then must be also be guilty..not necessarily.

The video is interesting, a little bit, but it is still true that Nadal before that had been against more testing, and now he is favour of it.

He was never against testing.
He, IIRC, was against the e-mail system and though other form of communications such as telephone etc, would be better, but I can't remember him saying that there should be less testing.

You know what I'm talking about. He resented having to plan his life around testing and be somewhere an hour a day.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/7885314.stm
It may not be an explicit contradiction of his current views, but certainly at the very least a shift in tone.

Henman Bill wrote:There are parallels indeed but that does not constitute compelling evidence at all, in other words one person was suspected and then guilty and then another was suspected and then must be also be guilty..not necessarily.

Cycling may not have the structure that Tennis has. Cycling is now a team sport, rather than Tennis, which is less so, but there is closer-knit group of coaches, physios, trainers, though.

The challenge with the Fuentes trial now, is the viability of the physical evidence from 6-7 years ago. There is no public information on whether it was preserved properly or not.

There is no public information on paper trails either. There are many interest groups who have conflicting interests in this trial. It may just have some fall athletes and nothing much should be expected.

Who cares about these non-issues when there is a very important weak era discussion going on not to mention a wonderful analysis on the greatest baseliners in history. Plus Federer and the 8 nike/edberg award controversy.

socal1976 wrote:Who cares about these non-issues when there is a very important weak era discussion going on not to mention a wonderful analysis on the greatest baseliners in history. Plus Federer and the 8 nike/edberg award controversy.

Another board just cannot get over this topic.

I am serious laverfan the great questions of the day are being pondered and answered by me and all it seems these people care about is whose ass cheeks are getting smearjayed.

sometimes i am glad there is a time difference with socal, means i don't have to put up with his stuff all day!

Henman Bill wrote:You know what I'm talking about. He resented having to plan his life around testing and be somewhere an hour a day.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/7885314.stm
It may not be an explicit contradiction of his current views, but certainly at the very least a shift in tone.

I find it interesting that you find what you see as a "shift in tone" from Nadal interesting but apparently have no interest in Murray's shift in tone. Mmm. Interesting!

he brought up nadal because there was a recent article on nadal .....

I wish someone would tell me exactly, and i MEAN, exactly the reason that Nadal is under the spotlight and no other tennis player.. From where I am sitting (i.e. in Spain) that there is only one reason .. Fuentes is Spanish . Rafa is Spanish . therefore Rafa must be guilty is that the connection ? am I missing something ?? or has anyone any other evidence as to the vendetta against him here and on every other tennis forum-?? I will take on board any evidence anyone has that Rafael Nadal is guilty of drug abuse. Because if he has come anywhere near to what is being implied (NO is some cases it isn´t even an implication its a downright accusation) then I for one will condem him along with the rest. And never darken this forum again.. in fact I will not watch tennis again... As it is if any such suggestions were made about Federer (he who is squeekly clean) Djokovic or Murray this forum would explode.. If the only connection that the accusers have is that Rafa is Spanish then I would have to say national prejudice is alive and well on this forum- so why not look at ALL the Spanish players... lets face it Ferrer has had a pretty good year.. Or why dont all his accusers admit that they are desperate to be proven right ?? Because its not possible , in their narrow little minds, to accept that what you see is exactly what you get. A talented, enigmatic, exiting tennis legend that has made is mark on the Sport and in Tennis history.

I know much much more about cycling than i do for tennis in regards to doping HN, so i will say this.

I think tennis has a lot more dopers than we think and I wouldn't be too surprised, obvs gutted, if many of the top players were included (e.g. djoko, murray, feds and rafa).
The testing is just so poor in tennis its a joke, cycling claims to be the best, its up there, but the UCI are the definition of corrupt and complicit.

What makes people suspicious is the miraculous recoveries from one match to the next. I have no proof, not many do if any, but i am suspicious of lots across all sports. If you want to be the best (more for some sports than others), many dope, its simple, its a cut throat world and money talks.

I do get frustrated however if people attack others for suggesting the possibility of doping about their favourite athlete/player as it stinks to high heaven of LA.
When you get too close to a fan you lose your way and the wool is pulled over their eyes.
Its not just the athletes to blame, its the guys who run the sport, organizers, drug testers etc. Can you imagine the impact if fedal were found to be dopers? It would be huge, so much money lost!
As long as they are seen to be making an effort, pitiful though it may be, that will suffice for the sporting community, which is why the "omerta" still exists and will continue to fester until a movement (not just an individual) can come together and purge the sport of doping.

For me now drugs go hand in hand with sport, to speak of one is to speak of the other

All very interesting... but it is still all about your opinions and about suspicions about implications... come up with some evidence LS because believe me I wouldn´t want to be on trial in a court of law and you were on the jury.

A man is innocent until proven guilty... Im not talking about other sports here I talk tennis.. Ive seen no evidence presented to me that suggests that Nadal, or ANY OTHER PLAYER ( and they could all be doing what you are suggesting.) lets face it Novak manages to make a quick recovery so does Federer given his age.
But no the suggestion is and has been from the start Nadal.
Come back with some evidence of what is going on in the SPORT OF TENNIS .. I do not follow other sports.

Lets get one thing perfectly straight yes I am defending Nadal on this occasion as I would any other tennis player in his position. I AM FIRST AND FOREMOST a fan of Tennis... even though (as has become known to me) I annoy you for which I make no apologies.

see again you are needlessly getting defensive when it comes to nadal.
You can draw conclusions from other sports, its important to do just that, otherwise you cannot learn, look at the title of this article, prime example!

Tennis is not doing nearly enough to purge the sport from the scourge of doping.
I have seen attitudes like yours before and that worries me, so i dispute your claim that "narrow minds".
That is what the likes of kimmage, walsh, o'reilly, the andreu's got and that infuriates me, so just because people don't agree with you I think it is churlish to go as far as saying that.

But whatever, we shall agree to disagree as you are v.entrenched in your views.

Haddie-nuff wrote:I wish someone would tell me exactly, and i MEAN, exactly the reason that Nadal is under the spotlight and no other tennis player.. From where I am sitting (i.e. in Spain) that there is only one reason .. Fuentes is Spanish . Rafa is Spanish . therefore Rafa must be guilty is that the connection ? am I missing something ?? or has anyone any other evidence as to the vendetta against him here and on every other tennis forum-?? I will take on board any evidence anyone has that Rafael Nadal is guilty of drug abuse. Because if he has come anywhere near to what is being implied (NO is some cases it isn´t even an implication its a downright accusation) then I for one will condem him along with the rest. And never darken this forum again.. in fact I will not watch tennis again... As it is if any such suggestions were made about Federer (he who is squeekly clean) Djokovic or Murray this forum would explode.. If the only connection that the accusers have is that Rafa is Spanish then I would have to say national prejudice is alive and well on this forum- so why not look at ALL the Spanish players... lets face it Ferrer has had a pretty good year.. Or why dont all his accusers admit that they are desperate to be proven right ?? Because its not possible , in their narrow little minds, to accept that what you see is exactly what you get. A talented, enigmatic, exiting tennis legend that has made is mark on the Sport and in Tennis history.

Well, the other red flag with Nadal is physical player with tremendous recovery. The same could indeed be said of Ferrer, but Nadal will come under the spotlight more because of his greater success.

hawkeye wrote:

Henman Bill wrote:You know what I'm talking about. He resented having to plan his life around testing and be somewhere an hour a day.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/7885314.stm
It may not be an explicit contradiction of his current views, but certainly at the very least a shift in tone.

I find it interesting that you find what you see as a "shift in tone" from Nadal interesting but apparently have no interest in Murray's shift in tone. Mmm. Interesting!

Murray's was longer ago, as someone else said. I am reacting to more recent news. But yes, Murray did a very similar shift in tone. So I would say the same things about him:

1. Well done to Murray to Murray for what he said.
2. Should have said it sooner.

However at least Murray said it earlier than Rafa. Rafa was the last of the top guys to jump on the bandwagon in effect.

Unlike Federer who many years ago said samples should be stored for longer or something like that as I recall.

Entrenched in my own views about tennis yes !! I never came on a tennis forum to discuss what is happening in Sport in general.. I would suggest in which case LS given the strength of your views re the subject of drugs in sport you are actually aiming it at the wrong posters and could you not ask yourself am I on the wrong forum ? I dont know who the hell you are talking about when you name the names that infuriate you so dont come bearing a grievance in a post to me and then have the affrontry to say I am defensive.

I will repeat once more I will defend Nadal I would do the same if it was any other player..in so far as the suggestions and implications that are aimed at him as a person. IF the suggestion or accusation has any truth.. that the playerS in the sport are using drugs.. then let it be proven ..not attack one individual player WHO EVER that may be.
I have nothing further to add to that OK

have you seen my name???? LUVSPORTS! emphasis on the S, plural. jeesh.
Yes because all i care about is doping, doping this, doping that and nothing else..... yeah right!
I am not defending anyone am I? you are, how am i defensive then?

See you are getting annoyed again for no reason. I have not accused anyone, i have my suspicions, which again highlights you being defensive and leaping to the wrong conclusions, i think i will borrow your smiley there.... and add a

You don't get it do you? If people took the same view as you, LA wouldn;t have been caught! It can apply to any sport, including tennis.
Sportsmen aren't open enough about doping in the sport, why not? do they have something to hide? will they be castigated and ostracized from the sport if they do?

This is all relevant and if you cannot see that then you are a lost cause.

Haddie-nuff wrote:

A man is innocent until proven guilty... Im not talking about other sports here I talk tennis.. Ive seen no evidence presented to me that suggests that Nadal, or ANY OTHER PLAYER ( and they could all be doing what you are suggesting.) lets face it Novak manages to make a quick recovery so does Federer given his age.
But no the suggestion is and has been from the start Nadal.
Come back with some evidence of what is going on in the SPORT OF TENNIS .. I do not follow other sports.

This is the problem, and the tennis authorities know what they are doing is working. There are countless mindless tennis fans who refuse to believe anything is wrong without actually seeing the players inject themselves with their own eyes. Therefore, all they need to do is make sure nobody important fails a drugs test, and they're golden. All the people who follow tennis as more of a reality TV show rather than a sport can keep covering their ears and eyes whilst shouting loudly can continue to delude themselves that there isn't anything wrong. Tennis needs nothing to come out of this trial and they have the means to do so (as do football of course), therefore nothing will happen. I would imagine you would rather everyone cheat and nobody get caught than tennis actually make a proper effort and catch (some of) the number of people that are cheating.

The whole Fuentes is Spanish but it doesn't mean it's a Spanish problem thing is nonsense too. It's a massive Spanish problem. If the offenders aren't Spanish, they're Spanish based and the vast majority of them are Spanish. Spanish sport is rotten to the core, and everyone with any sense knows that.

: A lost cause to YOU ?????????.thank God for that at least..


You wanna Cant be doing with it
I know of another forum where you would be welcome though

Oh that is obvious, nothing can ever be wrong with your precious nadal can it? So you run away from a perfectly reasonable stance and continue to belittle and denigrate for those who even mention one thing about nadal you don't agree with.

Role reversal right here but um.... grow up. Doping is part of any sport and that can be discussed on any forum, not one in particular, maybe you should recuperate with woofie or some nadal forum somewhere, give you some fresh air, time to relax and clear your head.

Of course more stringent doping measures should be in place. Not only would it catch the cheats but it would end all this groundless suspicions and accusations. The only people that can make these doping moves are those governing the sport and they simply MUST sort there act out as their efforts (or lack of it) are outrageous. We have not only the Armstrong incident but the Fuentes issue and now apparently doping is rife in Australian sport. That tells me that doping should be universal in all sports.

thankyou dj, i thought i was alone in my views, good to see i am not!

CaledonianCraig wrote:Of course more stringent doping measures should be in place. Not only would it catch the cheats but it would end all this groundless suspicions and accusations. The only people that can make these doping moves are those governing the sport and they simply MUST sort there act out as their efforts (or lack of it) are outrageous. We have not only the Armstrong incident but the Fuentes issue and now apparently doping is rife in Australian sport. That tells me that doping should be universal in all sports.

Agree with this but would add that 4 of the top ranked players in world tennis (Djokovic, Federer, Murray and Nadal) including the chairman of the players council have come out publically and said they support stronger measures on testing. Surely the clout that they should have can force this to happen if they are serious about it and its not just sound bites.

Sorry Calder but the tennis authorities hold all the cards and it is about time they grew a backbone. It is up to them to bring in a stringent anti-doping stance and drug tests carried out widescale throughout the sport. If the players council object then TOUGH as in there is absolutely no reason why there should be any objections to cleansing the sport.

I agree that we should look to have tougher doping measures to ensure that doping is not a problem in tennis. Now I think this is a real possibility as people will give it the backing it needs.
I also hope Nadal's request for releasing the Fuentes list is listened too, the current position is ridiculous.

LuvSports! wrote: Haddie Nuff, maybe you should recuperate with woofie or some nadal forum somewhere, give you some fresh air, time to relax and clear your head.

Ouch... that is harsh.

if she dishes it out, you gotta be able to take it.

I don't think they will give it enough backing. None of the players are that outspoken 2bh, they just say one nice little thing to appease the masses and thats ok, job done.
The itf wont do much to improve the situation, they seriously need help, or perhaps they don't want it.
Although players giving some prize money or something sounds a good idea, but surely there is an inherent conflict of interest there, ala LA donations.
(Unless ive got that wrong and all players agree to a % being taken off to fight the cause, but then the lower guys wouldn't appreciate that too much).

You make it seem as if nadal is a shining light in the anti-doping fight. It's not his idea is it? He is just using common sense. It is good that he is saying it, but he should be along with others like feds, djoko, murray etc

If they have nothing to hide why not go full steam ahead and tackle it properly?

CaledonianCraig wrote:Sorry Calder but the tennis authorities hold all the cards and it is about time they grew a backbone. It is up to them to bring in a stringent anti-doping stance and drug tests carried out widescale throughout the sport. If the players council object then TOUGH as in there is absolutely no reason why there should be any objections to cleansing the sport.

Think you might be missing my point. I was not implying that the players council were likely to object. Yes,the tennis authorities hold the cards but the implication is that they have not been strong enough on this issue. We have 4 top players saying that there needs to be more rigorous testing and transparency on the results. They are rightly being asked questions on doping by the media and giving these answers. It's their reputations (and as a whole that of tennis) which is on the line. So I'm hoping that behind the scenes they are in more comprehensive discussions with the authorities to ensure that this happens as it will benefit all (except those who may be be cheating).

Not sure what you mean by that last sentence LuvSports as it is purely down to the tennis authorities to make all the moves to bring in anti-doping measures. If they are a strong enough governing body they will find ways to fund it (can't really be that impossible) and push it through with a strong message that it will happen and if players don't like it then they remove themselves from the tennis circuit.

Henman Bill wrote:

hawkeye wrote:

Henman Bill wrote:You know what I'm talking about. He resented having to plan his life around testing and be somewhere an hour a day.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/7885314.stm
It may not be an explicit contradiction of his current views, but certainly at the very least a shift in tone.

I find it interesting that you find what you see as a "shift in tone" from Nadal interesting but apparently have no interest in Murray's shift in tone. Mmm. Interesting!

Murray's was longer ago, as someone else said. I am reacting to more recent news. But yes, Murray did a very similar shift in tone. So I would say the same things about him:

1. Well done to Murray to Murray for what he said.
2. Should have said it sooner.

However at least Murray said it earlier than Rafa. Rafa was the last of the top guys to jump on the bandwagon in effect.

Unlike Federer who many years ago said samples should be stored for longer or something like that as I recall.

So Murray gets a "well done" and when Nadal does exactly the same thing you find it "interesting"? Mmm. Interesting!

Federer gets a well done and a pat on the head for being first and Murray gets just a well done for being second.

Nadal comes in a distant third and he gets a roll of the eyes from the officials because they've had to man the finish line for a year or so longer than they should have.

Actually last year Nadal had an interview with L'equipe after Indian Wells, where he spoke about how it's important that tennis remains clean.
It didn't get much publicity in England.

LuvSports! wrote:if she dishes it out, you gotta be able to take it.

No, there is a difference though.
Haddie-Nuff spoke to you directly, as she didn't agree with what you were saying (which is her opinion).
However unlike you, she didn't cowardly go on another forum and call you names and b*tch about you behind your back.

Did he say 'remains clean'?

Nadal being a troll again.

Role reversal right here but um.... grow up. Doping is part of any sport and that can be discussed on any forum, not one in particular, maybe you should recuperate with woofie or some nadal forum somewhere, give you some fresh air, time to relax and clear your head. .

--------------------------

As for growing up I should take some of your own advice. Ill post where I damn well please and you remember that when you are talking to Tenez on the crackpot forum

...and keep feeling free to bring me up there too LS, biased poster that I am

djlovesyou wrote:Federer gets a well done and a pat on the head for being first and Murray gets just a well done for being second.

Nadal comes in a distant third and he gets a roll of the eyes from the officials because they've had to man the finish line for a year or so longer than they should have.

Why should any of them get a "well done". They are all just saying what they have to say. Did you really expect one of them to say "Back off with the drug testing I don't want to get caught!" ?

Anyway not liking the test procedure doesn't mean your guilty. I can understand why it must be unpleasant. Also asking for more tests or even offering to fund them out of your own pocket doesn't mean your not guilty. It could just mean you are confident that what your doing won't show up.

If suspicion is going to be thrown around it should be thrown around a bit more evenly. Federer aged 31 and a half going strong and never injured? Djokovic the player who used to swoon if it got a bit hot or the match was a bit long has been transformed by using an egg and a special diet? Murray who's body shape has completely changed and often disappears for a few weeks to put on pounds of lean muscle? Personally I'm surprised that Rafa "Spanish" with bad knees gets the lot (of suspicion).

It Must Be Love wrote:

LuvSports! wrote:if she dishes it out, you gotta be able to take it.

No, there is a difference though.
Haddie-Nuff spoke to you directly, as she didn't agree with what you were saying (which is her opinion).
However unlike you, she didn't cowardly go on another forum and call you names and b*tch about you behind your back.

i seem to have ruffled some feathers :O, what a coward i am...

LuvSports! wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:

LuvSports! wrote:if she dishes it out, you gotta be able to take it.

No, there is a difference though.
Haddie-Nuff spoke to you directly, as she didn't agree with what you were saying (which is her opinion).
However unlike you, she didn't cowardly go on another forum and call you names and b*tch about you behind your back.

i seem to have ruffled some feathers :O, what a coward i am...

Yeah, pretty much, cowardly.
If you had a problem with Haddie Nuff you could have PMed her, rather than calling her names on another forum behind her back.

lydian wrote:...and keep feeling free to bring me up there too LS, biased poster that I am

It's ok lydian i dont really bring you up, unless i want to get to the route as to why you and tenez don't get on . You are both knowledgeable posters (obvs both of you will dispute that about the other ) but it's good to learn a lot about tennis from you guys, for which I think i have done .

It Must Be Love wrote:

LuvSports! wrote:

It Must Be Love wrote:

LuvSports! wrote:if she dishes it out, you gotta be able to take it.

No, there is a difference though.
Haddie-Nuff spoke to you directly, as she didn't agree with what you were saying (which is her opinion).
However unlike you, she didn't cowardly go on another forum and call you names and b*tch about you behind your back.

i seem to have ruffled some feathers :O, what a coward i am...

Yeah, pretty much, cowardly.
If you had a problem with Haddie Nuff you could have PMed her, rather than calling her names on another forum behind her back.

why are you even getting involved? This has nothing to do with you.
We both disagree with each other nothing more needs to be said to each other.

Calder106 wrote:it will benefit all (except those who may be be cheating).

I am reminded of my favorite line from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

no one was really poor – at least no one worth speaking of

CaledonianCraig wrote:Not sure what you mean by that last sentence LuvSports as it is purely down to the tennis authorities to make all the moves to bring in anti-doping measures. If they are a strong enough governing body they will find ways to fund it (can't really be that impossible) and push it through with a strong message that it will happen and if players don't like it then they remove themselves from the tennis circuit.

If the players put more pressure on the authorities then change could happen no? Not a gd example, but 1 anyway - petitions? strikes? (obvs bit much) but players can make a bigger impact.
In cycling they have teams coming together such as aigcp, mpcc and the cpa to make change happen, some have had a bigger impact than others.
I don't see them pushing that change through, they are too reactive (if at all) and not proactive enough.

Luvsports. If you want to call people names and talk about people behind there back can you please do it over there. On606v2 we are a little more high minded (cough). Because of you I've just wasted my time posting a comment that will not be seen...

LuvSports! wrote:
why are you even getting involved? This has nothing to do with you.

Yes it does. You also called me names as well as Haddie Nuff.
You are aware that I know this?

LuvSports! wrote:
We both disagree with each other nothing more needs to be said to each other.

Disagree? I actually agree with what you've said on this thread- we need a tougher stance towards doping.
As for 'nothing more needs to be said to each other'- well that's ironic considering...

hawkeye wrote:Luvsports. If you want to call people names and talk about people behind there back can you please do it over there. On606v2 we are a little more high minded (cough). Because of you I've just wasted my time posting a comment that will not be seen...

Well if it's any comfort HE you were also mentioned and insulted... but still the 'least annoying' poster out of the group they don't like.

Anyway, which comment did you write that could not be seen? Sorry, I did not see it