Ireland 6N 33 man squad

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Michael Bent
Rory Best
Tom Court
Sean Cronin
Gordon D'Arcy
Keith Earls
Luke Fitzgerald
Declan Fitzpatrick
Craig Gilroy
Cian Healy
Jamie Heaslip
Iain Henderson
Chris Henry
Paddy Jackson
Rob Kearney
David Kilcoyne
Conor Murray
Mike McCarthy
Kevin McLaughlin
Fergus McFadden
Dave McSharry
Sean O'Brien
Donncha O'Callaghan
Brian O'Driscoll
Ronan O'Gara
Peter O'Mahony
Eoin Reddan
Mike Ross
Donnacha Ryan
Jonathan Sexton
Mike Sherry
Devin Toner
Simon Zebo


Notable inclusions - Jackson and McSharry

Notable Ommissions - Trimble and Marshall

RubyGuby wrote:We will look devastating - here it is

1 - Adam
2 - Hibbard
3 - Jenkins
4 - Kohn
5 - Evans
6 - Ryan J
7 - Warburton
8 - Toby
9 - Iron Mike
10 - Biggar
11 - North
12 - JD
13 - Jamie R
14 - Cuthbert
15 1/2p

Great backline but is the tight five capable of being exposed. I read today though that Ryan Jones will be missing.

Notch wrote:What a confidence inspiring gem from Declan Kidney in that press conference;

"The lads who didn't make the cut arguably trained better than those who did."

Right, well thats good to know

If that is his quote, then the man is an idiot.

Pfft...

RubyGuby wrote:We will look devastating - here it is

1 - Adam
2 - Hibbard
3 - Jenkins
4 - Kohn
5 - Evans
6 - Ryan J
7 - Warburton
8 - Toby
9 - Iron Mike
10 - Biggar
11 - North
12 - JD
13 - Jamie R
14 - Cuthbert
15 1/2p

You swappin props and Centres to confuse us?

Notch wrote:What a confidence inspiring gem from Declan Kidney in that press conference;

"The lads who didn't make the cut arguably trained better than those who did."

Right, well thats good to know. The guys who weren't picked are the ones that impressed most in training. Clearly this is a positive

Why the faceslap Notch. He is just making the point that it was a highly motivated squad and there was little to choose in the selections.

I think you're looking for issues where there are none.

What are the chances that over the course of these next 5 games that Kidney actual uses rotation to produce a squad instead of just nailing on the starting XV just now and sticking it out tooth and nail until the 6Ns are over.

My fear is that, as always, he rigidly sticks to this selection unless injury forces his hand.

I think you guys are being harsh on Deccie - that quote isn't as silly as you are making out and IMO there's a degree of good man management in it combined with the fact that he has gone with some experience and some youth in Gilroy. Give the guy a break

red_stag wrote:

Notch wrote:What a confidence inspiring gem from Declan Kidney in that press conference;

"The lads who didn't make the cut arguably trained better than those who did."

Right, well thats good to know. The guys who weren't picked are the ones that impressed most in training. Clearly this is a positive

Why the faceslap Notch. He is just making the point that it was a highly motivated squad and there was little to choose in the selections.

I think you're looking for issues where there are none.

Probably because some players have been playing better than their competitors and now train better and then still can't get picked in the side. Honestly, why do you think Ruby is so pleased with this time. If I was Welsh this would be the Irish team I'd hope would be picked.

Ok I haven't see as much of Peter O'Mahony, as I have of Henry.

Do Munster fans think he has done enough to displace Henry from the team and move SOB from 6 to 7.

BBC seamed to think Henry was near a sure thing
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21236821
"It may be less than a week before his likely Six Nations debut for Ireland against Wales"

Esp as after the Argentina game DK said ""I thought Chris Henry was exceptional today"

So being exceptional on your last test, being outstanding for your Province, and a man-of-the-match display for Ulster in a win away to Castres, in the last game before the test, and you lose your shirt!!!

like I said I haven't seen enough of Peter O'Mahony to judge, but he has to bee in some amazing run of form for DK to pick him ahead of henry, and move SoB to his less effective side.

Notch wrote:O'Mahony is more of a 7 than a 6 and O'Brien is more of a 6 than a 7... we really needed it to be O'Brien and Henry at 6 and 7.

Disagree Notch. O'Brien is a 7 and O'Mahoney is a 6/8. Kidders has it spot on here.

O'Mahoney isn't good enough on the floor to be a 7 and O'Brien is too small to be a 6 (he's giving away a stone and 2 inches to the likes of Lydiate, Kaino and Ferris).

They might not realise it but then Earls thinks he's a center.....

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:O'Mahony is more of a 7 than a 6 and O'Brien is more of a 6 than a 7... we really needed it to be O'Brien and Henry at 6 and 7.

Disagree Notch. O'Brien is a 7 and O'Mahoney is a 6/8. Kidders has it spot on here.

O'Mahoney isn't good enough on the floor to be a 7 and O'Brien is too small to be a 6 (he's giving away a stone and 2 inches to the likes of Lydiate, Kaino and Ferris).

They might not realise it but then Earls thinks he's a center.....

SOB is the best ball carrier we have though. Even New zealanders were impressed with his carrying.

Kingshu wrote:Ok I haven't see as much of Peter O'Mahony, as I have of Henry.

Do Munster fans think he has done enough to displace Henry from the team and move SOB from 6 to 7.

BBC seamed to think Henry was near a sure thing
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21236821
"It may be less than a week before his likely Six Nations debut for Ireland against Wales"

Esp as after the Argentina game DK said ""I thought Chris Henry was exceptional today"

So being exceptional on your last test, being outstanding for your Province, and a man-of-the-match display for Ulster in a win away to Castres, in the last game before the test, and you lose your shirt!!!

like I said I haven't seen enough of Peter O'Mahony to judge, but he has to bee in some amazing run of form for DK to pick him ahead of henry, and move SoB to his less effective side.

Its ridiculous - what worries me more than the Wales game now is that this is almost certainly going to be Kidneys plan for the tournament.

Henry is the only player up for debate IMO

Kingshu wrote:Ok I haven't see as much of Peter O'Mahony, as I have of Henry.

Do Munster fans think he has done enough to displace Henry from the team and move SOB from 6 to 7.

BBC seamed to think Henry was near a sure thing
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21236821
"It may be less than a week before his likely Six Nations debut for Ireland against Wales"

Esp as after the Argentina game DK said ""I thought Chris Henry was exceptional today"

So being exceptional on your last test, being outstanding for your Province, and a man-of-the-match display for Ulster in a win away to Castres, in the last game before the test, and you lose your shirt!!!

like I said I haven't seen enough of Peter O'Mahony to judge, but he has to bee in some amazing run of form for DK to pick him ahead of henry, and move SoB to his less effective side.

No, O'Mahony hasn't been as good at 6 as Henry has been at 7.

I don't think its much of a debate.

POM has a central contract now as well so that may factor in slightly to the selection (or the contract is a result of the selection)

red_stag wrote:

Notch wrote:What a confidence inspiring gem from Declan Kidney in that press conference;

"The lads who didn't make the cut arguably trained better than those who did."

Right, well thats good to know. The guys who weren't picked are the ones that impressed most in training. Clearly this is a positive

Why the faceslap Notch. He is just making the point that it was a highly motivated squad and there was little to choose in the selections.

I think you're looking for issues where there are none.

As Hooky says, because the players who are training better are also playing better. But mainly its just for the Poopie he talks. There's not much to this comment except for the man being a clown. It's a truly bizarre comment which is just borne out of him trying to be nice to everyone. If someone is training marginally better get him in the team, you clown. Thats the point of strength in depth.

We habitually get overpowered in contact across the backline against the Welsh and they often win the battle of the breakdown. So I'm just delighted we've left our best openside on the bench and picked two wingers who are good going forward but questionable in defence. If you were Welsh, would you not be grinning ear to ear at the sight of this team? I know I would be.

O'Mahony has been playing pretty well. It's not like anyone can really say that he is out of form or under performing or anything like that. However, he probably is the third best player on form in Munster's backrow. O'Donnell and Coughlin have been playing better.

Notch wrote:

red_stag wrote:

Notch wrote:What a confidence inspiring gem from Declan Kidney in that press conference;

"The lads who didn't make the cut arguably trained better than those who did."

Right, well thats good to know. The guys who weren't picked are the ones that impressed most in training. Clearly this is a positive

Why the faceslap Notch. He is just making the point that it was a highly motivated squad and there was little to choose in the selections.

I think you're looking for issues where there are none.

As Hooky says, because the players who are training better are also playing better. There's not much to this comment though, except for the man being a clown. It's a truly bizarre comment which is just borne out of him trying to be nice to everyone. If someone is training marginally better get him in the team, you clown. Thats the point of strength in depth.

We habitually get overpowered in contact across the backline against the Welsh and they often win the battle of the breakdown. So I'm just delighted we've left our best openside on the bench and picked two wingers who are good going forward but questionable in defence. If you were Welsh, would you not be grinning ear to ear at the sight of this team? I know I would be.

Not a clown an assclown

RubyGuby wrote:Henry is the only player up for debate IMO

Exactly. I just saw a guy on Facebook call Kidney a biased hopeless <insert rude words>. When he was asked what team he wanted only change was Chris Henry.

So much over reaction for one decision.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:O'Mahony is more of a 7 than a 6 and O'Brien is more of a 6 than a 7... we really needed it to be O'Brien and Henry at 6 and 7.

Disagree Notch. O'Brien is a 7 and O'Mahoney is a 6/8. Kidders has it spot on here.

O'Mahoney isn't good enough on the floor to be a 7 and O'Brien is too small to be a 6 (he's giving away a stone and 2 inches to the likes of Lydiate, Kaino and Ferris).

They might not realise it but then Earls thinks he's a center.....

SOB is the best ball carrier we have though. Even New zealanders were impressed with his carrying.

No doubt about it but playing 7 doesn't mean he can't carry ball a la Wally ( ) He's also the strongest player on the deck along with Best.

Notch wrote:O'Mahony is more of a 7 than a 6 and O'Brien is more of a 6 than a 7... we really needed it to be O'Brien and Henry at 6 and 7.

You can possibly put across an argument that we're going after the Welsh lineout,hopefully Henry will get a decent amount of gametime and at least one or 2 starts over the next month or so.

Ah Rodders now your talking. Lets all take a momnet to remember David Wallace: What a player!

No Henry is stronger than SOB on the deck, no doubt. O'Brien is primarily a carrier which makes him more of a 6 in my eyes.

Standulstermen wrote:POM has a central contract now as well so that may factor in slightly to the selection (or the contract is a result of the selection)

Was going to correct you. But yes he just signed one. (Well it was just announced)

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:O'Mahony is more of a 7 than a 6 and O'Brien is more of a 6 than a 7... we really needed it to be O'Brien and Henry at 6 and 7.

Disagree Notch. O'Brien is a 7 and O'Mahoney is a 6/8. Kidders has it spot on here.

O'Mahoney isn't good enough on the floor to be a 7 and O'Brien is too small to be a 6 (he's giving away a stone and 2 inches to the likes of Lydiate, Kaino and Ferris).

They might not realise it but then Earls thinks he's a center.....

+1

I'd never consider POM a 7 really. Gives away too many penalties I think for that role.

Looking at the team I am fairly impressed with it. Obviously not wild on ROG on the bench but don't think Jackson has been great and I think has an on going niggle.

I would have started Henry but POM is also playing very well. Glad it is Pom at 6 and SOB at 7.
Hope Gilroy stands up defensively, he will be tested bigtime.

Very glad that Bent is not included. Also think that in terms of impact Kilcoyne is a good option but if scrums get hairy I'd have preferred Court in there.
Henderson can feel unlucky not to be included but DOC has been doing well enough really.

No huge complaints really.

Interestingly (thanks to Glas a Du) the twitter account name for Peter O'Mahony is @peterom6

Says a bit about where he sees himself.

So if you lot can't agree how the feck do you expect Deccie to satisfy everyone. Maybe there's some truth that the Irish are welshmen who could swim (nice friendly self parody joke there by the way as emotions are running high) - Its a decent team but I'd be more concerned about the lightweight wingers and the geriatric midfield

Notch wrote:No Henry is stronger than SOB on the deck, no doubt. O'Brien is primarily a carrier which makes him more of a 6 in my eyes.

Dunno about that one. You could say that the 6 should be taller than SOB and be a good lineout option. SOB is a bastid on the deck too.

Notch wrote:No Henry is stronger than SOB on the deck, no doubt. O'Brien is primarily a carrier which makes him more of a 6 in my eyes.

Sorry but he isn't Notch. O'Brien played McCaw off the park last summer in two tests. Henry is excellent but SOB is at least as good on the deck and a better carrier.

It's testiment to Henry that he is breathing down SOBs neck to start but some of the reaction here is ludicrous. Henry is unlucky to miss out but thats as far as I'd go on that.

RubyGuby wrote:So if you lot can't agree how the feck do you expect Deccie to satisfy everyone.

+ 1 billion.

Standulstermen wrote:POM has a central contract now as well so that may factor in slightly to the selection (or the contract is a result of the selection)

Trimble has a central contract, Gilroy doesn't.

Henry should be starting, POM should be sprung from the bench.

Only hope is that they rotate around the backrow over the competition.

RubyGuby wrote:So if you lot can't agree how the feck do you expect Deccie to satisfy everyone. Maybe there's some truth that the Irish are welshmen who could swim (nice friendly self parody joke there by the way as emotions are running high) - Its a decent team but I'd be more concerned about the lightweight wingers and the geriatric midfield

feic off ya Deccie supporting Munster bollix! ....

red_stag wrote:Interestingly (thanks to Glas a Du) the twitter account name for Peter O'Mahony is @peterom6

Says a bit about where he sees himself.

Chris Henrys is chrishenry678.

Nowadays that can be construed as meaning he is more of a team player than O'Mahony (booooo!) what with being willing to slot in everywhere, but in actual fact its a reference to the fact that up until we won at Thomond Park last year, his being first choice for Ulster and in excellent form meant he was seen as being 678th in the pecking order for Irelands backrow by the IRFU.

And anyone who thinks there's anyone in the squad stronger than Henry on the deck just hasn't been paying attention, I'm sorry.

So what will be the welsh tactics? Target the scrum, try to avoid lineouts, send their big runners through the midfield, after multiple phases try to catch our young wingers in overlap situations? use a rush defense(?)

Notch wrote:

red_stag wrote:

Notch wrote:What a confidence inspiring gem from Declan Kidney in that press conference;

"The lads who didn't make the cut arguably trained better than those who did."

Right, well thats good to know. The guys who weren't picked are the ones that impressed most in training. Clearly this is a positive

Why the faceslap Notch. He is just making the point that it was a highly motivated squad and there was little to choose in the selections.

I think you're looking for issues where there are none.

As Hooky says, because the players who are training better are also playing better. But mainly its just for the Poopie he talks. There's not much to this comment except for the man being a clown. It's a truly bizarre comment which is just borne out of him trying to be nice to everyone. If someone is training marginally better get him in the team, you clown. Thats the point of strength in depth.

We habitually get overpowered in contact across the backline against the Welsh and they often win the battle of the breakdown. So I'm just delighted we've left our best openside on the bench and picked two wingers who are good going forward but questionable in defence. If you were Welsh, would you not be grinning ear to ear at the sight of this team? I know I would be.

I think Notch and Hooky yis are overreacting to this.

The important word in his statment is arguably

They arguably played better, but not in DK's eyes and he's the one picking the team. he means other people could come in an make a decent argument that they played better, but not that they did paly better. He was just menaing they were close calls, and people may be able to put decent arguements in for th eplayers that missed out.

I AGREE WITH NOTCH!

(This needs pointing out.)

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:POM has a central contract now as well so that may factor in slightly to the selection (or the contract is a result of the selection)

Trimble has a central contract, Gilroy doesn't.

Henry should be starting, POM should be sprung from the bench.

Only hope is that they rotate around the backrow over the competition.

If that is the case then this would be the match to start Henry. If Wales play Tipuric and Warburton the logical choice to play against them would be Henry, the form 7 in Europe (arguably) and SOB who played McCaw off the park in two tests in the summer in New Zealand. Picking Heaslip and POM as ball carriers and SOB, our best ball carrier but a good 7 on the deck, up against two outstanding 7s is a mismatch. Wales have beaten us three times in a row with the same tactics. And with those same tactics we had Ferris instead of POM, a far superior player. And we still get hammered at the breakdown. This selection makes little sense of form or tacitically or looking at recent history and learning lessons from it.

I am much more concerned about the back three who will get exposed in defence if the Welsh backline get any space. Our back three will be toothless in attack unless Murray, Sexton, D'Arcy and BOD show some serious improvement and/or Kidney changes his tactics.

Notch wrote:
And anyone who thinks there's anyone in the squad stronger than Henry on the deck just hasn't been paying attention, I'm sorry.

Paying attention to what?

Kingshu wrote:

Notch wrote:

red_stag wrote:

Notch wrote:What a confidence inspiring gem from Declan Kidney in that press conference;

"The lads who didn't make the cut arguably trained better than those who did."

Right, well thats good to know. The guys who weren't picked are the ones that impressed most in training. Clearly this is a positive

Why the faceslap Notch. He is just making the point that it was a highly motivated squad and there was little to choose in the selections.

I think you're looking for issues where there are none.

As Hooky says, because the players who are training better are also playing better. But mainly its just for the Poopie he talks. There's not much to this comment except for the man being a clown. It's a truly bizarre comment which is just borne out of him trying to be nice to everyone. If someone is training marginally better get him in the team, you clown. Thats the point of strength in depth.

We habitually get overpowered in contact across the backline against the Welsh and they often win the battle of the breakdown. So I'm just delighted we've left our best openside on the bench and picked two wingers who are good going forward but questionable in defence. If you were Welsh, would you not be grinning ear to ear at the sight of this team? I know I would be.

I think Notch and Hooky yis are overreacting to this.

The important word in his statment is arguably

They arguably played better, but not in DK's eyes and he's the one picking the team. he means other people could come in an make a decent argument that they played better, but not that they did paly better. He was just menaing they were close calls, and people may be able to put decent arguements in for th eplayers that missed out.

Exactly. To be honest I think if another coach said it nothing would be made out of it.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:So what will be the welsh tactics? Target the scrum, try to avoid lineouts, send their big runners through the midfield, after multiple phases try to catch our young wingers in overlap situations? use a rush defense(?)

Pretty much. Our backline will be deep enough that if they get up fast they should be able to stop the ball even getting wide enough for our wingers to hurt them and those two wingers can be exposed defending overlaps. They've had plenty of joy running through our centres before now, so why would they stop doing that?

Our scrum can also be targeted, they know that if Jones gets Healy in trouble the less experienced Kilcoyne will bring little and Fitzpatrick is only half-fit on the other side.

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:
And anyone who thinks there's anyone in the squad stronger than Henry on the deck just hasn't been paying attention, I'm sorry.

Paying attention to what?

To Chris Henry.

Dont understand DOC on the bench. I understand he's playing well but so in Henderson and 50/50 calls should be going to younger guys so we're moving forward.

Is Henderson a farmer?

1F'sgonnagetya! wrote:Dont understand DOC on the bench. I understand he's playing well but so in Henderson and 50/50 calls should be going to younger guys so we're moving forward.

I though Henderson wasn't starting for Ulster at the minute. Even with Muller and Tuohy injured he is on the bench. Thats based on the Castres game now; Ive no idea if he was playing earlier for them.

I really don't think twitter user names should be guide as to who plays where....

OK how about this logic then..... If we pick McCarthy then we need another lineout option at the tail, especially so if we accept Wales have the better scrum.

That means O'Mahoney must start. So the option is between Henry and SOB. Thats just the way I see it. Unfortunate for Henry who has been outstanding but there is no conspiracy there that I can see.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:POM has a central contract now as well so that may factor in slightly to the selection (or the contract is a result of the selection)

Trimble has a central contract, Gilroy doesn't.

Henry should be starting, POM should be sprung from the bench.

Only hope is that they rotate around the backrow over the competition.

If that is the case then this would be the match to start Henry. If Wales play Tipuric and Warburton the logical choice to play against them would be Henry, the form 7 in Europe (arguably) and SOB who played McCaw off the park in two tests in the summer in New Zealand. Picking Heaslip and POM as ball carriers and SOB, our best ball carrier but a good 7 on the deck, up against two outstanding 7s is a mismatch. Wales have beaten us three times in a row with the same tactics. And with those same tactics we had Ferris instead of POM, a far superior player. And we still get hammered at the breakdown. This selection makes little sense of form or tacitically or looking at recent history and learning lessons from it.

I am much more concerned about the back three who will get exposed in defence if the Welsh backline get any space. Our back three will be toothless in attack unless Murray, Sexton, D'Arcy and BOD show some serious improvement and/or Kidney changes his tactics.

I agree with you on the first part. SOB, Heaslip and Henry working the breakdown in defense would have been a worry for the Welsh.

If random forwards stop getting in between Murray and Sexton and taking static ball against a rush defense then we will perform much better. Also the best way to use Gilroy and Zebo is to bring them in field on attacking lines to cause matchup issues against the rush defense (my opinion anyway, might not be right all the same).

rodders wrote:I really don't think twitter user names should be guide as to who plays where....

I agree Rodders. I mean, I saw yours there recently. Rodderswealthybigknob. Come on lad, we all know you don't have much money.

That means O'Mahoney must start. So the option is between Henry and SOB. Thats just the way I see it. Unfortunate for Henry who has been outstanding but there is no conspiracy there that I can see.

Conspiracy probably not

Incompetence, that's a different issue.

P.S. Martyn Williams wasn't much taller than Shane, but won his share at the tail.

rodders wrote:I really don't think twitter user names should be guide as to who plays where....

OK how about this logic then..... If we pick McCarthy then we need another lineout option at the tail, especially so if we accept Wales have the better scrum.

That means O'Mahoney must start. So the option is between Henry and SOB. Thats just the way I see it. Unfortunate for Henry who has been outstanding but there is no conspiracy there that I can see.

? Can Heaslip not be that lineout option ?

red_stag wrote:

1F'sgonnagetya! wrote:Dont understand DOC on the bench. I understand he's playing well but so in Henderson and 50/50 calls should be going to younger guys so we're moving forward.

I though Henderson wasn't starting for Ulster at the minute. Even with Muller and Tuohy injured he is on the bench. Thats based on the Castres game now; Ive no idea if he was playing earlier for them.

He was rested for Castres away but he has been playing a fair bit. If he's seen as a future lock (and we need as many as possible) then he really should be in match day squads. I like DOC but this just stinks of Kidney's conservatism. If a senior player is the best in his position then I'm fine with having him in the squad, but as I've said, if it's a 50/50 it should go to the youngster.