Saxons vs Scotland A

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http://www.rfu.com/news/2013/january/news-articles/310113_saxons_teamvscots

England Saxons side to face Scotland A

15 Elliot Daly (London Wasps) 14 Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby) 13 Joel Tomkins (Saracens) 12 Jordan Turner-Hall (Harlequins) 11 Tom Biggs (Bath Rugby) 10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers) 9 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)

1 Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors) 2 Joe Gray (Harlequins) 3 Paul Doran-Jones (Northampton Saints) 4 Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers) 5 George Robson (Harlequins) 6 George Kruis (Saracens) 7 Will Fraser (Saracens) 8 Jordan Crane (Leicester Tigers, captain).

Replacements: 16 Rob Buchanan (Harlequins) 17 Nick Wood (Gloucester Rugby) 18 Kieran Brookes (Leicester Tigers) 19 Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers) 20 Jamie Gibson (London Irish) 21 Joe Simpson (London Wasps) 22 George Lowe (Harlequins) 23 Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)

Jordan Crane again leads out the Saxons with both May and Mullan coming into the starting line up. Quite a good mix of youth and experience in that team though I'd have liked us to have had a look at a different 12.[list=1][*]

Wow... And Wilson MoM... Jesus Ford fraked that up didn't he!

well deserved win there. well done Scotland!

Frak useless Kumquat of a ref!!!! Second penalty in a row at scrum, rather than go under the sticks gives advantage back to Scotland by taking the scrum away from England!

Frak Kumquat!!! Might as well wear a Scotland top

England backline outside of 9 were a waste of time with maybe the exception of Daly. Pretty much every player has played themselves out of the 6N. Awful. Some hard lessons to be learnt for the young English backs. Forwards made the error of keep giving it to the pretty boys (that's coming from a back as well).

Ref should habe given a penalty try, he allowed the Scots to nullify the scrum weapon and rob England of a try.

Oh come on England, is it really true this Scotland A team have not played a game of rugby since they last beat you 33 nil?! What was the Scotland A team anyone?

Was Rollaind reffing

But I will say well done Scotland defended like demons and tones was you best attacking player by far.

Can see him being brought up to the main squad

Well done Scotland, I was very disappointed with some of the performances there.

Morgannwg wrote:Oh come on England, is it really true this Scotland A team have not played a game of rugby since they last beat you 33 nil?! What was the Scotland A team anyone?

Maybe those who don't have an A team should keep quiet instead of jumping on board as soon as you see an England side lose?

Awful Saxons performance but these things happen.

RubyGuby wrote:Was Rollaind reffing

I wish would have been an improvement

Boom.

1 down,1 to go. Mind it started like this last year!

formerly known as Sam wrote:England backline outside of 9 were a waste of time with maybe the exception of Daly. Pretty much every player has played themselves out of the 6N. Awful. Some hard lessons to be learnt for the young English backs. Forwards made the error of keep giving it to the pretty boys (that's coming from a back as well).

Ref should habe given a penalty try, he allowed the Scots to nullify the scrum weapon and rob England of a try.

To be fair apart from Tonks the Scottish back line did less than nothing, hardly a game for backs to show off their talents in those conditions

Knackeredknees wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Oh come on England, is it really true this Scotland A team have not played a game of rugby since they last beat you 33 nil?! What was the Scotland A team anyone?

Maybe those who don't have an A team should keep quiet instead of jumping on board as soon as you see an England side lose?

Bitter much? I thought it was a fair comment. And it's not my fault if Wales don't have enough money or players for an A team, I would like to see an A team come back though.

Two very questionnable yellow not enough for the home side, also a pen try can't be given if there is no momentum.

Standout performances from some Glasgow players and Lawrie here.

A little bit of panic from England in the last 2/3 minutes in my opinion.

Scotland won the end and well done to them.

Just hope this will not be the result at Twickenham.

Well played Scotland good win.

Morgannwg wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Oh come on England, is it really true this Scotland A team have not played a game of rugby since they last beat you 33 nil?! What was the Scotland A team anyone?

Maybe those who don't have an A team should keep quiet instead of jumping on board as soon as you see an England side lose?

Bitter much? I thought it was a fair comment. And it's not my fault if Wales don't have enough money or players for an A team, I would like to see an A team come back though.

Sorry morg, but your first post all game is when England lose having a little dig.

I thought the WRU was pretty flush At the moment and I thought you had enough players of required standard the field an A side?

Considering the conditions that game was quite enjoyable. Tonks, Kennedy, Wilson and lawrie were standouts for Scotland. Tonks effectively did what Hogg did last year. Deserves to be in Scotland squad vs Italy.

VinceWLB wrote:Two very questionnable yellow not enough for the home side, also a pen try can't be given if there is no momentum.

Standout performances from some Glasgow players and Lawrie here.

Nope not true there does not have to be any momentum to give a pen try

Knackeredknees wrote:
Nope not true there does not have to be any momentum to give a pen try

Despite the two yellows (the second of which was dubious at best) England werent dominating any of the last few scrums enough to justify a penalty try.

VinceWLB wrote:Two very questionnable yellow not enough for the home side, also a pen try can't be given if there is no momentum.

Standout performances from some Glasgow players and Lawrie here.

Tonks once again showed why he should at least be in the full squad.

Wilsons second half was excellent which was good to see because his first half was poor.

It just goes to show how much of a leveller the weather can be for teams

Imperialbigdave wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:
Nope not true there does not have to be any momentum to give a pen try

Despite the two yellows (the second of which was dubious at best) England werent dominating any of the last few scrums enough to justify a penalty try.

The first yellow was for something that wasn't replayed but the second was because the Scottish prop was on his knees (which Scotland had been doing in several scrums and not been picked up for). Not only is that dangerous, but it kills any hope of forward momentum. A penalty try would have been quite within the letter of the law: a Scottish player had committed a deliberate foul rather than go backwards, in a 5m scrum where England were clearly in the ascendancy. I thought the ref handled it badly, especially given that going uncontested handed the advantage back to Scotland in a big way.

Anyway, Scotland were far more organised and deserved the win. I thought that of England's players only Buchanan and Crane were pulling their weight.

RubyGuby wrote:It just goes to show how much of a leveller the weather can be for teams

Nothing bloody level about that score line!

That certainly throws the cat amongst the pigeons! Didn't watch the game, but can see this firing up both sides for tomorrow's Calcutta. Interesting times indeed!

AlastairW wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:It just goes to show how much of a leveller the weather can be for teams

Nothing bloody level about that score line!

That certainly throws the cat amongst the pigeons! Didn't watch the game, but can see this firing up both sides for tomorrow's Calcutta. Interesting times indeed!

Alastair, yee of little faith - The weather must have been a great leveller on this occasion as you won 35-0 last year. This year your opponents made a better fist of it and all I'm saying is maybe the weather is a great leveller after all

I get ya Ruby, 'twas a feeble attempt at the humours!

Regardless, It's my first Calcutta match that I have tickets for tomorrow, and I'm very excited. Win/Lose or Draw ........ preferably win though

I suspect most of the home nations sides might be carrying an injury or two after tomorrow's games! The tension for the Wales/Ireland match certain seems to be cranking up nicely as well.

Do I get this right? Saxons couldn't get in from 5 m against 13 men? Uncontested scrums or not you should be able to score

happy with a win, means we have some good players 'in reserve' again.

Hopefully we can compete well tomorrow and we'll see what the scoreboard is at 5.45

AlastairW wrote:I get ya Ruby, 'twas a feeble attempt at the humours!

Regardless, It's my first Calcutta match that I have tickets for tomorrow, and I'm very excited. Win/Lose or Draw ........ preferably win though

I suspect most of the home nations sides might be carrying an injury or two after tomorrow's games! The tension for the Wales/Ireland match certain seems to be cranking up nicely as well.

Have a great weekend Al - Catch you next week

RubyGuby wrote:

AlastairW wrote:I get ya Ruby, 'twas a feeble attempt at the humours!

Regardless, It's my first Calcutta match that I have tickets for tomorrow, and I'm very excited. Win/Lose or Draw ........ preferably win though

I suspect most of the home nations sides might be carrying an injury or two after tomorrow's games! The tension for the Wales/Ireland match certain seems to be cranking up nicely as well.

Have a great weekend Al - Catch you next week

Cheers fella

Hopefully I don't come back to a complete sh1t storm in a few days time and Bilt's banned everyone before going AWOL again. That's what happened last time! haha - Have a great time whatever you're up to for the Wales/Ireland game.

Right I missed that game cause I was at the in laws for dinner so had to slyly follow it on Twitter - who can give me a detailed breakdown of how all the Scotland guys played?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Right I missed that game cause I was at the in laws for dinner so had to slyly follow it on Twitter - who can give me a detailed breakdown of how all the Scotland guys played?

Wilson had a few stupid handling errors in the first half then had a stormer in the second half. Man of the match.
Dickinson was Dickinson. Dodgy in the scrum.
Welsh did a commendable job at tighthead considering hes a loosehead. Was under a bit of pressure and stood up a few times, but ive seen worse. carried well. Yellow card was harsh.
Lawrie was immense, looks like hes making up for lost years, always broke the first tackle.
Swinson the better of the locks, Ryder was still decent though.
Mcinally and Vernon were quiet, but not passengers by any means. Mcinally unlucky not to get a try early in the second half, ran a great line from 10 meteres out and got hauled down inches short.
Kennedy was very good for so little experience. A couple of errors, but much more good work. One sublime, Mikey Blair-esque break with complimetary mikey blair-esque lack of support from any teammates.
Heathcote very good in the first half, drilling the ball into the corners, second half was into the wind, and largely spent defending, so fairly quiet.
Grove and Dunbar didnt let anything through them all night, though neither really did anything going forward. Dunbar went off with injury, but it didnt look serious, he walked off himself.
Walker mixed the good with the bad, some great half breaks, some hilarious handlking errors, and a terrible finish after mcinallys try that wasnt got recycled to him with a 1 on 1.
I was very impressed with Taylor, took his try really well, and just looked totally comfortable in attack and defence. Imagine Ansbro if he was a few inches taller.
Tonks was brilliant. Had one glaring error that was more down to a quality kick from eastmond that caught everyone unaware. Surprise surprise, he kicked a lot less than for edinburgh even with the conditions. When he did kick it was usually a great touch finder to pin england back into their 22, and when he didnt, he was slipping tackles and making a ton of ground.

from the bench, Reid anchored the scrum until he got sent off for pulling a maul down 5 m out. Shiells only had one scrum before it went to uncontested. Cairns and Fife didnt get the ball.

England under 20's beat Scotland under 20's.

Scotland A beat England Saxons that is 1 a piece.

So to day all to play for. Winner take all.

Not quite, Maj, we have the ladies and the 7s still to come aswell

7's eng 31 scot 7
Eng thru to final vs Kenya
Scot lost plate final vs Aus

Just a question......
Was the Scottish prop actually injured and could not come back on? Or was it a ploy to force uncontested scrums and stop a push over try.

Can't remember him going off injured or it being mentioned that he was an injury concern as he went off

I think it may have been a Scottish ploy as Crane was not at all happy and had a lengthy talk with the referee.

Interesting call on Buchanan PoorFour I thought he was good at the lineout but a liability at the scrums due to his constant standing up under pressure which depowered the front row.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I think it may have been a Scottish ploy as Crane was not at all happy and had a lengthy talk with the referee.

Interesting call on Buchanan PoorFour I thought he was good at the lineout but a liability at the scrums due to his constant standing up under pressure which depowered the front row.

I am pretty sure that the Scottish TH was illegally driving up, Sam. It was noticeable that once the ref had a word and both sides stopped popping up, England were in the ascendancy pretty consistently. The other players were giving him a lot of pats on the back, so from that I figured he must have been doing ok.

But I thought his biggest contribution was in the loose. His tackle and carry counts were very high, he was helping to organise the defence, and he picked up at least one turnover. For a lad in his second season out of the academy, that's pretty promising.

I've got it recorded and haven't watched it all yet. Fantastic win for Scotland A (again) - I never saw that coming looking at the lineups, and it sounds like Scotland battled hard all evening, coupled with the Saxons yet again playing poorly against us.

Delighted to hear that Lawrie put in a strong performance, I thought his last game for Edinburgh (can't remember if it was Munster or Leinster) was excellent and I think he's now overtaken Titterall as Ford's main back-up at Edinburgh. Really pleased with his progress.

Anyone still think Murchie is better than Tonks??

Pleased for Ryan Wilson as well. With Denton and Beattie and in the main squad he's got stiff competition, but he's been playing better than Denton at club level this season and good to see he took that form into this game.

I was also impressed with the U20s (which I did watch). Really organised, good rucking skills and again a brave effort against a far stronger side on paper.

It would be easy for our reserve and junior sides to get blown away, but the basics have been coached well and there's plenty of spirit there.

The bitter and cynical ego in me would point out that wind and rain and stair-rods is the formula for a Scottish win. Or that half the Scottish team was English born.

But then Mr Sensible id taps me in on the shoulder, and whispers in my ear that Scotland played better, were organised in defence, and made England look uncoached and uncohesive and altogether like a scratch side that decided its game plan in the bar over a couple of pre-match beers.

Great manning up from the Sweaties. Well done.

Well done to Scotland - a deserved win. Frustrating though to see the Saxons mess up those last couple of plays. Great defence though by the Scots. Can't wait for this afternoon now. Hope that everyone enjoys but that England enjoy it a bit more!

I am pretty sure that the Scottish TH was illegally driving up, Sam. It was noticeable that once the ref had a word and both sides stopped popping up, England were in the ascendancy pretty consistently. The other players were giving him a lot of pats on the back, so from that I figured he must have been doing ok.

But I thought his biggest contribution was in the loose. His tackle and carry counts were very high, he was helping to organise the defence, and he picked up at least one turnover. For a lad in his second season out of the academy, that's pretty promising.

He was good in the loose and despite being a bit raw has a lot of promise. Disagree on the scrum, normally when the tighthead is pushing across and up you see the loosehead either come up or scrummage straight through the side. The props stayed down on both sides it was Buchanan that came up often on his own which would be more an indication of him struggling to take the pressure.

So as an England fan, my question is whether Callard is the right man to take the Saxons forwards, or upwards, or somewhere, anywhere, other than the direction the team is going in with that performance.

Part of the problem is, and i'm merely presuming this, he is to a large extent playing with the players that SL has selected to a game plan SL requires. Within these constraints though, is he the right man to get the team playing at their optimum capacity? I'm not convinced...

The bottom line was that the Scots just wanted it more. They battle hard..they tackled hard...

George Ford was appalling...his decision making had us bewildered. He's obviously never played up here before cos time and again he put up and unders up that went behnid him due to the wind...

Johnny May looked ok...not given much chance in offence but his defence was solid.
Will Fraser looked good...
Daly...well he did ok.
Kruis put some big work and tackles in.

The whole teams tackling was appalling..

I also question the selections. Robson should not have been there. I would have prefered them to go with say Kruis in the SR alongside Kitchener and have another bruising 6 on.

But fair do to the Scots...their backs looked dangerous ball in hand and they deserved the victory.

Scotland deserved to win.

However, the conditions made the game a farce. You couldn't see a better advert for summer rugby than that and the u20 game. Compare the quality of game in decent conditions at Twickerham for the senior game. I think questions have to be asked about playing a precious representative game in Newcastle in early Feb - it's like playing a test at Chester Le Street in May. If we don't do the sensible thing and change the calendar then hopefully artificial pitches will soon be common place. Stadiums with roofs, even if they have to be permanent, should also be considered.

Having said that, Ford really struggled anyway. Hopefully he and various other English players will have learnt from the experience.

But Dave thats rugby...it's a tough sport...and you adapt to the conditions....ford didnt. Our boys on.the falcons do and will be.a proposition next season.

And our young Fb hodgson will be better for.it. He can adapt.

The complete inability of the team to pass and catch was worrying - especially at the end where they butchered a 5 on 1.

Ford was indeed poor, but so were Wiggy and Simpson. Pack must have been annoyed how often they secured hard fought ball to then see a box kick going up and landing back on them. In fact I would say, with the exception of biggs, every back damaged their chances to mnake the EPS.

Scotland won for precisely the reasons that the full national squad didn't - solid, well organised defense and the ability to execute the few chances that came their way.

I think that most Scotland fans (well, quite a few anyway) would be happy to swap the following 'A' players for their full Scottish team equivalents for the Italy match:

1. Swinson for Hamilton
2. Heathcote for Jackson
3. Grove for Lamont
4. Tonks for Evans (bench)

We will be watching young Mr Taylor's development at Sarries very carefully.