The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

+7
laverfan
barrystar
lags72
newballs
LuvSports!
JuliusHMarx
hawkeye
11 posters

Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by hawkeye Sat 2 Feb - 3:19

Rafa has a ridiculously good record on clay. 254 wins and only 19 losses (win/loss ratio of 93.04). I thought it would be interesting to see who he lost to and when

In 2003 Rafa lost to Moya, Gonzalez, Lapentti, Gaudio, Correttja, Coria and Volandri

2004 Mutis, Ferrer and Guadio

2005 Andreev and Guadio

2006 Didn't lose!

2007 Federer

2008 Ferrero

2009 Federer and Soderling

2010 Didn't lose

2011 Djokovic twice

2012 Tiriac oops I mean Verdasco

So seven of Rafa's losses took place when he wasn't really old enough to be out without his mothers permission. If I remove them Rafa now has 234 wins and only 12 losses (win loss ratio of 95.12). I'm tempted to remove the stats up to April 2005 when he lost to Andreev too. He was still only 18 but I don't want to upset anyone... Rafa has only lost one five set match on clay to Soderling. When a player is as dominant as this any loss is an anomaly and it is difficult not to look for reasons for such an unusual occurrence. Why were these few matches different? Untested surface, blisters, mental or physical fatigue or of course exceptional play by an opponent.

Being so good in Sport is unusual but doesn't necessarily get the appreciation that a more unusual win will get. There isn't much of a story line if a player just keeps winning. It isn't "news" although conversely it is big news when a loss occurs. Not many players in any sport are good enough to "own" something in the way that Rafa owns clay. He is therefore playing to keep what he already owns. So he can't win anything. Whereas all of his opponents on clay are playing with nothing to lose. I'm not sure how he can handle such pressure.



Last edited by hawkeye on Sat 2 Feb - 9:11; edited 1 time in total

hawkeye

Posts : 5427
Join date : 2011-06-13

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by JuliusHMarx Sat 2 Feb - 3:35

It is indeed very remarkable and impressive.
Could you put the total number of clay matches for each year, if it's not too much trouble?
I think the knowledge that he is virtually unbeatable actually reduces the pressure and his opponents go in with the mind-set of not believing they can win ("I've got nothing to lose, but I'm going to lose anyway").
All the great sportsmen had that advantage, once a period of dominance is established.

JuliusHMarx
julius
julius

Posts : 22578
Join date : 2011-07-02
Location : Paisley Park

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by LuvSports! Sat 2 Feb - 3:43

didn't he have a match winning streak on clay of 81?!?!?

phenomenal effort, just unreal!

LuvSports!

Posts : 4701
Join date : 2011-09-19

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by newballs Sat 2 Feb - 4:17

Difficult to believe anybody certainly in the Open Era come close to such dominance on any given surface.

Thinking about it on grass would it be a close call in terms % matches won between Sampras and Federer?

Also widening this out slightly who'd have the highest win % on all surfaces? Borg and possibly Connors would be up there with (no surprises here ) Nadal and Federer at a guess.

newballs

Posts : 1156
Join date : 2011-06-02

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by lags72 Sat 2 Feb - 4:24

On grass Federer now out on his own of all players :

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Reliability-Zone/Reliability-Grass-Career-List.aspx

But across all surfaces combined, he trails Borg, Nadal, Connors, & Lendl

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Reliability-Zone/Reliability-Overall-Career-List.aspx


Last edited by lags72 on Sat 2 Feb - 4:30; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : omission)

lags72

Posts : 5018
Join date : 2011-11-08

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by JuliusHMarx Sat 2 Feb - 4:36

I'm amazed Connors is so close to Borg, given that one retired at 26 and the other at 40.

Thin margins at the top, we're talking a handful of matches here and there.

JuliusHMarx
julius
julius

Posts : 22578
Join date : 2011-07-02
Location : Paisley Park

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by barrystar Sat 2 Feb - 4:41

Starting with 2002, his yearly stats on clay are as follows:
1–1 11–6 14–3 50–2 26–0 31–1 24–1 24–2 22–0 28–2 23–1 0–0

He has 36 tournament wins out of 55 participations, 254 match wins and 19 defeats.

I wonder if he ever won the first set in any of those 19 defeats?

I don't agree with HE that you need to explain all his defeats after 2005 as aberrations, he's human and his level and that of his opponents invariably changes. Also, some of the wins have been quite tight - especially a couple vs. Federer, one or two vs. Djoko, and even Murray and Isner each pushed him hard once.

I often wonder whether it would have made a difference to the Fedal rivalry had Federer won that final in Rome 2006.
barrystar
barrystar

Posts : 2960
Join date : 2011-06-04

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by laverfan Sat 2 Feb - 4:54

@Barry ... which tournament on Clay in 2002 did you start with?

laverfan
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 11252
Join date : 2011-04-08
Location : NoVA, USoA

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by barrystar Sat 2 Feb - 5:14

laverfan wrote:@Barry ... which tournament on Clay in 2002 did you start with?

I must confess, the same as wikipedia!
barrystar
barrystar

Posts : 2960
Join date : 2011-06-04

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by laverfan Sat 2 Feb - 6:22

2012 (Losses - 1)

Madrid - R16 Fernando Verdasco (ESP) 19 L 3-6, 6-3, 5-7

2011 (Losses - 2)

Rome - F Novak Djokovic (SRB) 2 L 4-6, 4-6
Madrid - F Novak Djokovic (SRB) 2 L 5-7, 4-6

2009 (Losses - 2)

RG - R16 Robin Soderling (SWE) 25 L 2-6, 7-6(2), 4-6, 6-7(2)
Madrid - F Roger Federer (SUI) 2 L 4-6, 4-6

2008 (Losses - 1)

Rome - R32 Juan Carlos Ferrero (ESP) 23 L 5-7, 1-6

2007 (Losses - 1)

Hamburg - F Roger Federer (SUI) 1 L 6-2, 2-6, 0-6

2005 (Losses - 2)

Valencia - Q Igor Andreev (RUS) 47 L 5-7, 2-6
Buenos Aires - Q Gaston Gaudio (ARG) 8 L 6-0, 0-6, 1-6

2004 (Losses - 3)

Palermo - R16 Olivier Mutis (FRA) 113 L 3-6, 3-6
Stuttgart - Q David Ferrer (ESP) 47 L 3-6, 7-6(3), 5-7
Bastad - Q Gaston Gaudio (ARG) 11 L 2-6, 3-6
Estoril - Q Irakli Labadze (GEO) 52 L W/O

2003 (Losses - 6)

Umag - S Carlos Moya (ESP) 4 L 4-6, 4-6
Stuttgart - R32 Fernando Gonzalez (CHI) 14 L 2-6, 6-3, 2-6
Bastad - Q Nicolas Lapentti (ECU) 76 L 6-3, 3-6, 6-7(6)
Hamburg - R16 Gaston Gaudio (ARG) 29 L 2-6, 2-6
Barcelona - R32 Alex Corretja (ESP) 17 L 6-3, 2-6, 1-6
Monte Carlo - R16 Guillermo Coria (ARG) 26 L 6-7(3), 2-6

2002 (Losses - 1)

Barcelona - S Albert Portas (ESP) 96 L 2-6, 1-6

I cannot find #19 unless I include the Barcelona 2002 Challenger. Crying or Very sad

I know at some point in the past, the Futures/Challengers were counted towards a career w/l, just cannot find the reference now.


Last edited by laverfan on Sat 2 Feb - 6:42; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Updated and corrected.)

laverfan
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 11252
Join date : 2011-04-08
Location : NoVA, USoA

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by User 774433 Sat 2 Feb - 6:23

He's amazing.

User 774433

Posts : 5067
Join date : 2012-05-19

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by Guest Sat 2 Feb - 6:43

Those stats are insane!

I wonder chris Evert's record on clay was like.

She's probably the only one who comes close to Rafa.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by laverfan Sat 2 Feb - 6:52

emancipator wrote:Those stats are insane!

I wonder chris Evert's record on clay was like.

She's probably the only one who comes close to Rafa.

Should we not look at Borg, Vilas or Lendl?

laverfan
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 11252
Join date : 2011-04-08
Location : NoVA, USoA

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by Guest Sat 2 Feb - 6:54

Yeah it would be interesting although I suspect they will be far behind Rafa.

Evert may be closer.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by lydian Sat 2 Feb - 7:54

That 2008 loss to Ferrero was undoubtedly due to those horrendous blisters he had coming into the event from the Barcelona event he won on Sunday a few days earlier. He said "Today when I woke up, I said it was impossible to play," Nadal said. "I spoke to the doctor today and yesterday, and they put special protection on it and cream, but it was still tough.". That was his 2nd loss on clay in 105 matches and we saw what he did a fortnight later at RG.

On the very toughest and demanding of all surfaces his stats are quite unreal. We're unlikely to see these stats happen again in our lifetimes. Lets see what he can add to the stats from next week...



lydian
lydian

Posts : 9178
Join date : 2011-05-01

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by JuliusHMarx Sat 2 Feb - 8:48

I've split the discussion on Evert to a new topic. This one's for Rafa!

JuliusHMarx
julius
julius

Posts : 22578
Join date : 2011-07-02
Location : Paisley Park

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by laverfan Sat 2 Feb - 9:07

JuliusHMarx wrote:I've split the discussion on Evert to a new topic. This one's for Rafa!

Genius with a Silver Tongue. kiss

laverfan
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 11252
Join date : 2011-04-08
Location : NoVA, USoA

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by hawkeye Sat 2 Feb - 9:12

cough!

hawkeye

Posts : 5427
Join date : 2011-06-13

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by carrieg4 Sat 2 Feb - 9:23

For once I am in agreement HE Laugh

carrieg4

Posts : 1829
Join date : 2011-06-22
Location : South of England

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by carrieg4 Sat 2 Feb - 9:26

Wow, my last post was in really bad English. Sorry I had a dry January, now I have one drink and forget how to form coherent sentences.

carrieg4

Posts : 1829
Join date : 2011-06-22
Location : South of England

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by laverfan Sat 2 Feb - 10:32

hawkeye wrote:cough!

Not sure what you meant, HE? That I am not fit for an Edberg award... yet. Crying or Very sad Laugh

laverfan
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 11252
Join date : 2011-04-08
Location : NoVA, USoA

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by laverfan Sat 2 Feb - 10:34

carrieg4 wrote:Wow, my last post was in really bad English. Sorry I had a dry January, now I have one drink and forget how to form coherent sentences.

You just need a bit of practice and you will be back like Nadal.

laverfan
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 11252
Join date : 2011-04-08
Location : NoVA, USoA

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by carrieg4 Sat 2 Feb - 10:35

laverfan wrote:
carrieg4 wrote:Wow, my last post was in really bad English. Sorry I had a dry January, now I have one drink and forget how to form coherent sentences.

You just need a bit of practice and you will be back like Nadal.

Laugh

carrieg4

Posts : 1829
Join date : 2011-06-22
Location : South of England

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by JuliusHMarx Sat 2 Feb - 10:57

Back like Nadal - good.
Knees like Nadal - not so good
Smile

JuliusHMarx
julius
julius

Posts : 22578
Join date : 2011-07-02
Location : Paisley Park

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by hawkeye Sat 2 Feb - 18:59

laverfan wrote:
hawkeye wrote:cough!

Not sure what you meant, HE? That I am not fit for an Edberg award... yet. Crying or Very sad Laugh

laverfan. If someone coughs and you don't understand why don't try and put meaning behind it and then take the blame (and cry). You will turn my cough into something it wasn't.

hawkeye

Posts : 5427
Join date : 2011-06-13

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by laverfan Sun 3 Feb - 2:19

hawkeye wrote:
laverfan wrote:
hawkeye wrote:cough!

Not sure what you meant, HE? That I am not fit for an Edberg award... yet. Crying or Very sad Laugh

laverfan. If someone coughs and you don't understand why don't try and put meaning behind it and then take the blame (and cry). You will turn my cough into something it wasn't.

I had much rather seek clarification, rather than get accused of going postal. Laugh

laverfan
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 11252
Join date : 2011-04-08
Location : NoVA, USoA

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by JuliusHMarx Sun 3 Feb - 2:25

You could send an e-mail, unless that's going e-postal.

JuliusHMarx
julius
julius

Posts : 22578
Join date : 2011-07-02
Location : Paisley Park

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by laverfan Sun 3 Feb - 2:43

JuliusHMarx wrote:You could send an e-mail, unless that's going e-postal.

:roflmao:

laverfan
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 11252
Join date : 2011-04-08
Location : NoVA, USoA

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by Henman Bill Sun 3 Feb - 4:37

From 2005 onwards would be an interesting stat. That's when he became good. Although I don't think anyone could justify excluding Andreev and starting at a random point in the year.

2005: 50–2
2006: 26–0
2007: 31–1
2008: 24–1
2009: 24–2
2010: 22–0
2011: 28–2
2012: 23–1

Total 228-9 (96.2%)

Henman Bill

Posts : 5265
Join date : 2011-12-05

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by Henman Bill Sun 3 Feb - 4:43

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Reliability-Zone/Reliability-Overall-Career-List.aspx

For Connors to get so high, even above Federer, despite playing so many years, is tremendously impressive.

I do think he might have played more minor tournaments, and that there wasn't a masters series with top players continually facing off. Even so, wow.

Henman Bill

Posts : 5265
Join date : 2011-12-05

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by Henman Bill Sun 3 Feb - 5:52

Rafa will go first ahead of Borg if he wins his next 2 matches.

Henman Bill

Posts : 5265
Join date : 2011-12-05

Back to top Go down

Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay Empty Re: Rafa's Really Ridiculous Record On Clay

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum