Six Nations: Wales - Ireland Post Match Discussion

First topic message reminder :

Wales 22 - Ireland 30

Wales:
Tries - Cuthbert (47 min), Halfpenny (58 min), Mitchell (75 min)
Convs - Halfpenny 2/3
Pens - Halfpenny 1/1

Ireland:
Tries - Zebo (10 min), Healy (23 min), O'Driscoll (42 min)
Convs - Sexton 3/3
Pens - Sexton 3/3


Match Stats:
http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/match/133782.html

ITAAAALIIIIIA! ITAAAALIIIIIA! ITAAAALIIIIIA!



That was magnificent and it has set this 6-N alight.

Handy 2 pts away in Rome anyone? Don't think so.

Statistics are like a bikini, it shows a lot but not the whole thing.

maestegmafia wrote:Statistics are like a bikini, it shows a lot but not the whole thing.

I believe I speak for all of 606v2 when I say it was disappointing you did not attach a pic of you dressed as Borat.

A MaestegMankini.

Just seen this on twitter

Keith Earls must see a specialist later this week on a shoulder injury he picked up yesterday. Had scan today.
— Sinéad Kissane (@sineadkissane)

Could mean that if D'Arcy and Earls fail to recover then McSharry to start?

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:Just seen this on twitter

Keith Earls must see a specialist later this week on a shoulder injury he picked up yesterday. Had scan today.
— Sinéad Kissane (@sineadkissane)

Could mean that if D'Arcy and Earls fail to recover then McSharry to start?

What was DArcys injury?

maestegmafia wrote:

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:Just seen this on twitter

Keith Earls must see a specialist later this week on a shoulder injury he picked up yesterday. Had scan today.
— Sinéad Kissane (@sineadkissane)

Could mean that if D'Arcy and Earls fail to recover then McSharry to start?

What was DArcys injury?

Not sure but that's why he went off early in the 2nd half... But just seen that he's expected to train fully this week as are BOD, Heaslip, Kearney and Ross.

McFadden?

Willy

I'd much rather McSharry than McFadden. McFadden hasn't played much at 12 this season, and he's been much more effective on the wing. McSharry hasn't put a foot wrong so far and was one of the few players to perform vs the Saxons.

You're forgetting the conservative tattoo on Kidney's lower back though... I can't see him parachuting McSharry into a huge game versus England, however much the prospect of new blood excites me.

Then again, Kidney has never shown a willingness to play McFadden at 12, even when D'Arcy was out so who knows!

So if Gordon D'Arcy, Keith Earls and Luke Marshall are all out- well you have three choices.

Dave McSharry
Fergus McFadden
Darren Cave

Like Earls coming in, I would say the later two constitute BOD moving to 12. From a defensive PoV I would say BOD/Cave is the best. I'm assuming a recall for Paddy Wallace won't be considered? Wouldn't put it past Kidney, he's reached over players in the squad to call in Wallace before

If D'Arcy is even close to fit he'll start.

Well done Ireland, too much passion for Wales in the first half. The Welsh players looked as though they had just been introduced to each other.

The Irish has a bit of luck, everyone is in awe of O'Driscoll's pass "bent" around Cuthbert for Zebo's try, but look at the replay it was about 2 yards forward! Then a charge down and a soft try on the line for O'Driscoll.

Apart from the charge down Biggar looked OK, certainly looked better than Hook did when he came on. The one problem I had with his game was the backs were all flat accross the field so no one could run onto a pass.

Cuthbert is great with the ball but someone needs to show him how to play rugby, JD2 had a stinker but his defence was very good. Not sure why North does not get passed the ball, there was one occasion when he was on an overlap but Faletau passed inside to Tipuric instead!

Melon is not the player he was, Rees and Adam played well and often did not get the rub of the referee! There was a hicup in the lineout calling in the second half but apart from that Owen carried very well. Ian Evans looked good in the lineout but hardly suprising, quiet around the park. Coombes looked OK at times, Faletau was lively in the second half.

For France, lets hope Ryan is fit to replace either Shingler or Coombes. I would also give James at start at 1, also Kohn could start. The only other change I would consider would be Byrne at 15 and 1/2p on the wing. Also on the bench Wales needs another option at 9, Williams was woeful when he came on, slow pass (step every time), and lacks physicality to play at this level.

WillyGilly wrote:You're forgetting the conservative tattoo on Kidney's lower back though... I can't see him parachuting McSharry into a huge game versus England, however much the prospect of new blood excites me.

If he's so conservative, how come he keeps picking young players? Gilroy he called in from nowhere, Henderson and Kilcoyne have been called in after not much either. He's not always conservative in selection- he sometimes is and he sometimes isn't, on a case to case basis. Lately he's obviously been consciously trying to get younger players involved in the senior squad/ He's quite conservative tactically though.

I also don't think he'll call McSharry in for a home debut under that kind of pressure. He's kind of sealed his view on Cave when he called in Wallace to start in the nightmare match in NZ. That leaves McFadden, which doesn't fill me with confidence. I really hope D'Arcy is fit now.

The Welsh players looked as though they had just been introduced to each other.

In some cases they literally were, Warbs commenting on how he looked forward to meeting Kahn, seeing who Coombs was etc...

Williams was dire from a welsh POV, his pack were totally dominant yet the first guard managed to pressure Hook which means Williams offered no fringe threat and was totally ignored by the fringe defence. His pass was also loopy and tottally unaccurate, Hook wouldve been better off with the front row making the passes.

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:Willy

I'd much rather McSharry than McFadden. McFadden hasn't played much at 12 this season, and he's been much more effective on the wing. McSharry hasn't put a foot wrong so far and was one of the few players to perform vs the Saxons.

I dont mean to be rude, but who is this McSharry ye speak of? I have never even heard of him.

Out of touch, man. Out of touch.

The Connacht centre- made a name for himself in the Westies two HC campaigns. Well-rounded player with a broad skillset but still very raw. Just an unknown quantity.

Bottom line is if he was half as good and playing for Leinster you'd be jizzing in your pants but he probably still isn't ready for the big time.

Wallace will get a call on Saturday night telling him to get his arse down to Dublin cos hes starting the next day

I haven't read back.

Well done Ireland. Gatland's master plan is unravelling. Whilst Howley was not supposed to be a threat to his return after the Lions, he's worse than Gatland could have ever imagined. His whiny voice bleads confidence. Even Edwards can't make up for him. Wales + for the Lions is in tatters, Gatland will have to rebuild having given the other nations the inside track on him and his methods.

If I were him I'd Frank Bough after the Lions.

Everyone is looking for reasons why Ireland lost the second half 19 -7, but surely there is no need to look further than Rob Howley? He is getting a lot of stick and rightly so, but someone in the Welsh coaching lineup saw what was going wrong and changed it for the second half.

In the first half Wales weren't using North and Cuthbert the way they had done so successfully last year. They obviously had been told to graze near the touchline and the two most potent Welsh weapons never saw the ball. The only reason for this tactic must have been because Wales were worried defensively about Gilroy and Zebo getting the ball?
In the second half from the kick off North came inside running midfield lines, (Cuthbert scored from one). Suddenly the Irish backrow were having to occupy themselves tackling rather than running. POM lost his effectiveness coincidentally as Tipuric found his. That is the real problem with Kidney's lack of balance in the backrow, and it can be exploited.

I reckon gatland will last less then a year with Wales post lions.

How many welsh players will get on tour this time around??? Less then 10 in all probability... Perhaps even six and very few if any will get in the test xv.

How is he going to motivate his players in his return.... I didn't believe in you and all those English and Irish players are better then you.

I can't even see how warburton will tour let alone captain the side.... Unless something major changes he will lose his place in the starting xv when lydiate returns assuming tipuric continues to show good promise.

That is the real problem with Kidney's lack of balance in the backrow, and it can be exploited.

I'd say that's the back row you need to beat France. I'd start with Henry in place of POM in all other games though.

How is he going to motivate his players in his return.... I didn't believe in you and all those English and Irish players are better then you.

It's not so much not believing in the Wales player, but if the Irish and English counterparts are better then it's only fair. Hopefully they're old enough to realise that.

Gibson wrote:I dont mean to be rude, but who is this McSharry ye speak of? I have never even heard of him.

Former Leinster Academy lad who wanted to play rugby and realised he wouldn't be able to in his home province!

The Great Aukster wrote:Everyone is looking for reasons why Ireland lost the second half 19 -7, but surely there is no need to look further than Rob Howley? He is getting a lot of stick and rightly so, but someone in the Welsh coaching lineup saw what was going wrong and changed it for the second half.

In the first half Wales weren't using North and Cuthbert the way they had done so successfully last year. They obviously had been told to graze near the touchline and the two most potent Welsh weapons never saw the ball. The only reason for this tactic must have been because Wales were worried defensively about Gilroy and Zebo getting the ball?
In the second half from the kick off North came inside running midfield lines, (Cuthbert scored from one). Suddenly the Irish backrow were having to occupy themselves tackling rather than running. POM lost his effectiveness coincidentally as Tipuric found his. That is the real problem with Kidney's lack of balance in the backrow, and it can be exploited.

When you're massively down/almost lost all hope the mentality changes....the team ahead sort of shuts off and the losing team takes a nothing to lose attitude. I've only seen one team actually win from this position which was France in 99 vs. the all blacks.
It was nothing to do with coaching... It was about player pride in not wanting to get an absolute pasting... I was desperation rugby.

Just because Wales got semi back into the game doesn't mean they were ever going to win.... It was similar to when England were trounced by NZ in the rugby World Cup 1995. They were 29-3 down at halftime. They responded,won the second half and scored 4 tries with an open attacking attitude esp. By will carling of all people... Yet they were never in the game and were never under any illusions.

I don't think it's a positive thing that Wales came back bar the players attitude because its not reflective to a standard game. Put Wales back in a structured framework and you'll probably see the same problems... Do you think Wales will play like they did vs. Ireland in the 2nd half against France next week??? Not a chance as they would be committing suicide.

fa0019 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Everyone is looking for reasons why Ireland lost the second half 19 -7, but surely there is no need to look further than Rob Howley? He is getting a lot of stick and rightly so, but someone in the Welsh coaching lineup saw what was going wrong and changed it for the second half.

In the first half Wales weren't using North and Cuthbert the way they had done so successfully last year. They obviously had been told to graze near the touchline and the two most potent Welsh weapons never saw the ball. The only reason for this tactic must have been because Wales were worried defensively about Gilroy and Zebo getting the ball?
In the second half from the kick off North came inside running midfield lines, (Cuthbert scored from one). Suddenly the Irish backrow were having to occupy themselves tackling rather than running. POM lost his effectiveness coincidentally as Tipuric found his. That is the real problem with Kidney's lack of balance in the backrow, and it can be exploited.

When you're massively down/almost lost all hope the mentality changes....the team ahead sort of shuts off and the losing team takes a nothing to lose attitude. I've only seen one team actually win from this position which was France in 99 vs. the all blacks.
It was nothing to do with coaching... It was about player pride in not wanting to get an absolute pasting... I was desperation rugby.

Just because Wales got semi back into the game doesn't mean they were ever going to win.... It was similar to when England were trounced by NZ in the rugby World Cup 1995. They were 29-3 down at halftime. They responded,won the second half and scored 4 tries with an open attacking attitude esp. By will carling of all people... Yet they were never in the game and were never under any illusions.

I don't think it's a positive thing that Wales came back bar the players attitude because its not reflective to a standard game. Put Wales back in a structured framework and you'll probably see the same problems... Do you think Wales will play like they did vs. Ireland in the 2nd half against France next week??? Not a chance as they would be committing suicide.

If Wales play like they did in the second half next week in Paris they might have a chance

MM

Of course... But they just won't... Not because they can't but because no team will ever go into a match with that sort of nothing to lose mentality.

They all start with structure... Structured plays, positions etc. and that is where Wales have suffered as their structured play is easily for teams to deal with.

fa0019 wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Everyone is looking for reasons why Ireland lost the second half 19 -7, but surely there is no need to look further than Rob Howley? He is getting a lot of stick and rightly so, but someone in the Welsh coaching lineup saw what was going wrong and changed it for the second half.

In the first half Wales weren't using North and Cuthbert the way they had done so successfully last year. They obviously had been told to graze near the touchline and the two most potent Welsh weapons never saw the ball. The only reason for this tactic must have been because Wales were worried defensively about Gilroy and Zebo getting the ball?
In the second half from the kick off North came inside running midfield lines, (Cuthbert scored from one). Suddenly the Irish backrow were having to occupy themselves tackling rather than running. POM lost his effectiveness coincidentally as Tipuric found his. That is the real problem with Kidney's lack of balance in the backrow, and it can be exploited.

When you're massively down/almost lost all hope the mentality changes....the team ahead sort of shuts off and the losing team takes a nothing to lose attitude. I've only seen one team actually win from this position which was France in 99 vs. the all blacks.
It was nothing to do with coaching... It was about player pride in not wanting to get an absolute pasting... I was desperation rugby.

Just because Wales got semi back into the game doesn't mean they were ever going to win.... It was similar to when England were trounced by NZ in the rugby World Cup 1995. They were 29-3 down at halftime. They responded,won the second half and scored 4 tries with an open attacking attitude esp. By will carling of all people... Yet they were never in the game and were never under any illusions.

I don't think it's a positive thing that Wales came back bar the players attitude because its not reflective to a standard game. Put Wales back in a structured framework and you'll probably see the same problems... Do you think Wales will play like they did vs. Ireland in the 2nd half against France next week??? Not a chance as they would be committing suicide.

+1

It was that and Ireland's willingness to sit back and defend. It quite frankly was ridiculous at times. Sexton kicking aimlessly when we were close or just past the halfway line I really started to wonder what the hell was going on. If we had held on to the ball that not only eats up time but means Wales would have had to defend. The opposition can't score if you have the ball but instead we applied no pressure and decided to try and soak it up again. A complete joke of a 2nd half if you're Irish. But then we shouldn't be surprised this has happened a good few times when we have had a decent lead.

fa0019 wrote:When you're massively down/almost lost all hope the mentality changes....the team ahead sort of shuts off and the losing team takes a nothing to lose attitude.

I didn't see that at all - how did Ireland shut off? The tackles went in with just as much purpose, and everyone had the same intensity. There were plenty of Scarlets players in the Welsh side who know all about heroic comebacks and Ireland had plenty of Leinster ones who know all about that too. There wasn't complacency but there was a definite change in tactics and that almost turned the game on it's head.

fa0019 wrote:MM

Of course... But they just won't... Not because they can't but because no team will ever go into a match with that sort of nothing to lose mentality.

They all start with structure... Structured plays, positions etc. and that is where Wales have suffered as their structured play is easily for teams to deal with.

+1...What he said.

It would either be brilliance or suicide. But more often than not it would be absolute suicide. Quite simply it's easier to play throw it around flashy rugby when you have nothing to lose.

The Great Aukster wrote:

fa0019 wrote:When you're massively down/almost lost all hope the mentality changes....the team ahead sort of shuts off and the losing team takes a nothing to lose attitude.

I didn't see that at all - how did Ireland shut off? The tackles went in with just as much purpose, and everyone had the same intensity. There were plenty of Scarlets players in the Welsh side who know all about heroic comebacks and Ireland had plenty of Leinster ones who know all about that too. There wasn't complacency but there was a definite change in tactics and that almost turned the game on it's head.

Put simply Ireland stopped attacking. We stopped going through the phases and kicked everything away aimlessly. I don't think we had one astute territory kick in the second half and we hardly went through 5 phases in one go. If it had been close at halftime there is no way the 2nd half would have been so one sided. - This is because Ireland would have been more in an attacking mindset because they would have known they needed to score more. But we decided we didn't need to attack at all after the early 2nd half try. This happened as recently as SA in the autumn can people not see this or what?

Just a question has anyone been cited for the kick in sexton's face in that ruck?

Really Hope so. That was dirty play. No need for it!

I thought it was someone on the floor who had no way of seeing sexton behind him... Looked accidental to me.

The Great Aukster wrote: POM lost his effectiveness coincidentally as Tipuric found his. That is the real problem with Kidney's lack of balance in the backrow, and it can be exploited.

They were on the field together for 6 min. In that time POM took a bang to the head and had to be taken off a few min later.

fa0019 wrote:I thought it was someone on the floor who had no way of seeing sexton behind him... Looked accidental to me.

Can someone not be cited for reckless use of the boot. He was rucking miles away from the ball so I think a citing is imminent.

Notch wrote:Out of touch, man. Out of touch.

The Connacht centre- made a name for himself in the Westies two HC campaigns. Well-rounded player with a broad skillset but still very raw. Just an unknown quantity.

Bottom line is if he was half as good and playing for Leinster you'd be jizzing in your pants but he probably still isn't ready for the big time.

I stand suitably educated.

Really? Is he an actual player? Like that guy Cave?

Wish Ummm, was here.

The Great Aukster wrote:

fa0019 wrote:When you're massively down/almost lost all hope the mentality changes....the team ahead sort of shuts off and the losing team takes a nothing to lose attitude.

I didn't see that at all - how did Ireland shut off? The tackles went in with just as much purpose, and everyone had the same intensity. There were plenty of Scarlets players in the Welsh side who know all about heroic comebacks and Ireland had plenty of Leinster ones who know all about that too. There wasn't complacency but there was a definite change in tactics and that almost turned the game on it's head.

That would be fairly astute, in my condescending opinion.

That 2nd-half didn't come from the players. I reckon. That' s why we need a changing of the coaching guard.

The Great Aukster wrote:

Gibson wrote:I dont mean to be rude, but who is this McSharry ye speak of? I have never even heard of him.

Former Leinster Academy lad who wanted to play rugby and realised he wouldn't be able to in his home province!

Ah yeah Ausk, so many were educated and trained in the Leinster Way... Its so hard to remember them all bud.

We normally send our 2nd-raters to England, or failing that - Munster.

Gibson wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

Gibson wrote:I dont mean to be rude, but who is this McSharry ye speak of? I have never even heard of him.

Former Leinster Academy lad who wanted to play rugby and realised he wouldn't be able to in his home province!

Ah yeah Ausk, so many were educated and trained in the Leinster Way... Its so hard to remember them all bud.

We normally send our 2nd-raters to England, or failing that - Munster.

And we fix them and send them back as frankly, from your point of view, irreplaceable International Class first choice tight head props

The Great Aukster wrote:Everyone is looking for reasons why Ireland lost the second half 19 -7, but surely there is no need to look further than Rob Howley? He is getting a lot of stick and rightly so, but someone in the Welsh coaching lineup saw what was going wrong and changed it for the second half.

In the first half Wales weren't using North and Cuthbert the way they had done so successfully last year. They obviously had been told to graze near the touchline and the two most potent Welsh weapons never saw the ball. The only reason for this tactic must have been because Wales were worried defensively about Gilroy and Zebo getting the ball?
In the second half from the kick off North came inside running midfield lines, (Cuthbert scored from one). Suddenly the Irish backrow were having to occupy themselves tackling rather than running. POM lost his effectiveness coincidentally as Tipuric found his. That is the real problem with Kidney's lack of balance in the backrow, and it can be exploited.

Oh yes.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Gibson wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

Gibson wrote:I dont mean to be rude, but who is this McSharry ye speak of? I have never even heard of him.

Former Leinster Academy lad who wanted to play rugby and realised he wouldn't be able to in his home province!

Ah yeah Ausk, so many were educated and trained in the Leinster Way... Its so hard to remember them all bud.

We normally send our 2nd-raters to England, or failing that - Munster.

And we fix them and send them back as frankly, from your point of view, irreplaceable International Class first choice tight head props

Excellent riposte. Touche CJ. Ya Quins bollix ya. Thanks for our Mike. Its all about karma, if you know what I mean Jon?

[quote="maestegmafia"

If Wales play like they did in the second half next week in Paris they might have a chance[/quote]

Maes,

Unfortunately if we play like we did in the first half then we will be playing catch up rugby again and after yesterdays result I feel France will be more ruthless than Ireland were.

fa0019 wrote:When you're massively down/almost lost all hope the mentality changes....the team ahead sort of shuts off and the losing team takes a nothing to lose attitude. I've only seen one team actually win from this position which was France in 99 vs. the all blacks.
It was nothing to do with coaching... It was about player pride in not wanting to get an absolute pasting... I was desperation rugby.

Just because Wales got semi back into the game doesn't mean they were ever going to win.... It was similar to when England were trounced by NZ in the rugby World Cup 1995. They were 29-3 down at halftime. They responded,won the second half and scored 4 tries with an open attacking attitude esp. By will carling of all people... Yet they were never in the game and were never under any illusions.

I don't think it's a positive thing that Wales came back bar the players attitude because its not reflective to a standard game. Put Wales back in a structured framework and you'll probably see the same problems... Do you think Wales will play like they did vs. Ireland in the 2nd half against France next week??? Not a chance as they would be committing suicide.

That is so true. The leading team sists back, they are confident in their lead and doesn't take any risks, if an opportunity presents itself they will use it, but why take risks if it isn't necessary?

The team that is behind in essence have a mentality the game is lost, so they have to risk to "make play" hence the risk factor is negated in order to get points on the board.

Both scenario's goes to mentality.

Unfortunately though, saying we must play like that the next game is totally ignorant of the fact that the next match situation is completely different and the mentality therefor will be different. It doesn't go to skill or game plan, it goes to acceptable risk management.

Stunned by some of the reaction here to what was Irelands best win since beating Australia in the 2011 RWC.

Yes Wales were awful in the first half but to beat the reigning champions, on their home soil in the first game is a fantastic result.

The backs gave a defensive masterclass in the first half, with BOD and the back 3 shooting up and not giving the big Welsh 3/4s any chance of gaining momentum, we slowed Wales ball up on the deck, won the collisions and denied Wales the opportunity to get the front foot ball they love to get their big runners on to.

In the second half Tipuric made a huge difference, in terms of getting quick ball and our defence lost shape when Earls, replaced D'arcy. The two sin binnings put us under further pressure and we lost our scrum parity when the pace of the game caught up to Ross.

Overall I though it was a fantastic performance and credit to Kidney and the coaching team. Howley is clearly a very poor coach and the tactics we employed in the first half won us the game.

Sextons grubber kicks in behind, along with the decoy running of the back 3 caused panic and indecision in the Welsh blitz, as did the pace and strike threat of Gilroy and Zebo.

I'm usually pretty critical of Kidders but he got this one spot on.

If I was being critcal I'd say Heaslip isn't a great captain - BOD, Sexton, Ryan, Healy and Best were the leaders out there for us.

We'll need to improve massively for next Sunday against a monstrous English side but that is a fantastic opening weekend for us.

fa0019 wrote:MM

Of course... But they just won't... Not because they can't but because no team will ever go into a match with that sort of nothing to lose mentality.

They all start with structure... Structured plays, positions etc. and that is where Wales have suffered as their structured play is easily for teams to deal with.

Spot on.

At the end of the day rodders..................we're still on for the SLAM!

Only thing standing in our way now ...... Italy in Rome!

rapidsnowman wrote:At the end of the day rodders..................we're still on for the SLAM!

Only thing standing in our way now ...... Italy in Rome!

I'm hoping Italy will have achieved their 2 win target by then and will go easy on us! ..... .

Irelands fixtures have fallen very nicely this year:

-Good to play Wales first where Howley got the selections all wrong. Doubt they will be that poor again.
-Good to play England (biggest rivals) second when there is still lots of energy in the tank and not to many injuries as they have a better squad than us but not necessarly a better first 15.
- Always good to play our toughest two matches at home, England and France (with respect to Wales)
-Scotland third and having already lost to England and potentially Italy may just have lost the plot by the time we get to play them.
-France, better to play them towards the end as they always beat us and hard to go on a roll when you start with a loss.
-Italy. Probably the best time to play them last match as they have the smallest squad of all and are more prone to depletion than anyone else. Mind you they did beat France in their last match a couple of years ago.

rodders wrote:

We'll need to improve massively for next Sunday against a monstrous English side but that is a fantastic opening weekend for us.

There's the nuts and bolts of those opinions expressed above that surprised you, Rodders. "We'll need to improve massively for next Sunday".

Now, given that some think the Welsh game was already a divine game of exceptional ability both in attack and defence for a re-enervated Ireland.... I'd be wondering where the massive improvement is going to come from?

I'd rather see the Welsh game as a continuation of the usual conundrum... a team with the raw power and guile to score tries pretty easily enough, even against the highest grade oppostion (I remind everyone again of Ireland's highest try scoring record in last year's 6N (playing unadulterated shyte rugby in overall design and texture.) And their high try count in the AIs..second only to New Zealand I think

So the players are there to do the Wales and the France 'way' (mesmerising offloading strike runs to bamboozle the opposition and in for tasty blink-and-you'll-miss-them tries ) better than the Welsh and the French themselves perhaps...and yet once again, we pull back into our shell and DECIDE to handle the game through defence when we seem comfortable with the score. I say again, like I said last year, our gameplan seems to be stab, stab stab when opportunity rises and then fall back to defend against the rage of the opponents who feel rightly sick of the little prycks (tries that is, not our players )

It's bad economics energy wise - it's bad coaching, it shuns the notion that attacking consistency gives adrenalin and thus makes the route through the 80 minutes easier on muscles and stamina and alertness to possibilities for more points.

Ireland fell back into defensive mode, O'Driscoll himself admitted that they invited the Welsh onto them and very nearly paid the price of continued stodgy and cautious coaching. The Welsh players went into the tunnel fresh and bright eyed, ready to still hit on now for a possible Championship, the Irish dragged their exhausted bodies into the tunnels moaning about the toughest encounter they've had in years (Heaslip). Nice mood to be in, looking to prepare yourself for a much more clinical (scientific) attacking side than Wales in the guise of England.

Ireland, through coaching or a selection of infuriating off-on players -or both -continue to enter competitions with one hand tied behind their backs as they continue with this mantra that losing defensive shape is bad rugby, that creative tricks and plans to offload increasing attack pressure from opponents is suspicious vainglory activity to be frowned upon. It isn't - it's called having a few plan Bs and Cs ready for retaking the initiative, so that you get down the other end of the field, to perhaps score even more points - the name of the game.

Kicking free balls back at the opposition who are as dangerous as the Welsh is not good coaching at any time, in any year. If we do it to the English they'll kill us...again. And what's to say we won't do just that next week? Let's be honest, after the first half we didn't think we'd end up playing the game we played in the second half. But the "past" turned up in the future yet again. And I'm sorely sick of it.

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:

We'll need to improve massively for next Sunday against a monstrous English side but that is a fantastic opening weekend for us.

There's the nuts and bolts of those opinions expressed above that surprised you, Rodders. "We'll need to improve massively for next Sunday".

Now, given that some think the Welsh game was already a divine game of exceptional ability both in attack and defence for a re-enervated Ireland.... I'd be wondering where the massive improvement is going to come from?

I do think it was an excellent perfromance, where the improvement needs to come is that we need to put in an 80 minute performance other than 50min.

I've seen the AB take their foot of the gas when they've been miles ahead so I don't think the second half is the huge concern some our making out. A few substitutions had an impact, Wales clicked and we stood off. We will learn from that experience and take it into the next game.... in fact the fact that we did have to dig so deep in the second half probably puts us in a stronger position for the next round.

The biggest challenge with England is the sheer size and power they have. We'll need to dominate the breakdown and get up in defence as we did in the first half but keep it going for 80 minutes.

This is now looking like the defining game of the championship but we are in a good position after round one, no doubt about it, and we should be happy with that considering how poor we were last season.

Secret Fly are you blaming Deccie for the second half performance?

BlueMuff wrote:Secret Fly are you blaming Deccie for the second half performance?

I hope not BlueMuff.....because it was clearly Earls fault..... ....