The Crunch: Ireland v England Sunday 10th February 2013

First topic message reminder :

aka L'O'Choc: Irelande v Angleterre Dimanche le 10me Février 2013After going AWOL again yesterday, the French have most likely reduced the 6Ns title to a single game to determine the title.

Such a shame.

Discussion about the game - not about France going walkabout as originally intended.

Teams:

Greater Dublin Representative XXIII

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster/42)
14 - Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster/2)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster/121)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster/72)
11 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster/4)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster/35)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster/15)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster/36)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster/63)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster/25)
4 - Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht/7)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster/24)
6 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster/10)
7 - Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster/23)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster/53) Captain

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster/23)
17 - David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster/3)
18 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster/3)
19 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster/91)
20 - Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster/5)
21 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster/48)
22 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster/126)
23 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster/35)

The Perfidious Albion

15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 7 caps)
14. Chris Ashton (Saracens, 30 caps)
13. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 12 caps)
12. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 1 caps)
11. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 12 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 13 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 29 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 6 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 36 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 5 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps)
6. James Haskell (London Wasps, 46 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 13 caps)
8. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 10 caps)

Replacements
16. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 43 caps)
17. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 23 caps)
18. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 5 caps)
19. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 16 caps)
20. Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers, 4 caps)
21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 38 caps)
22. Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
23. Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 17 caps)

Foden isn't retained, nore is JJ or Burns.

Looking at the 25 man training squad it'll be Brown at 11 and Goode at 15 again unless the rise of Strettle (which would be stunning on the back of poor to average form all season) is completed and he starts at 11 and one of Goode or Brown is dropped.

Englands 25 man training squad:
Chris Ashton (Saracens), Brad Barritt (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers), Alex Goode (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (London Wasps), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), David Strettle (Saracens), Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby), Billy Vunipola (London Wasps), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers), David Wilson (Bath Rugby), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers), Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) will stay in camp for ongoing treatment on an ankle injury.

Looks like it's between Waldrom and Vunipola for the bench spot. Heart say's give it to Billy, head say's SL will go with pieboy.

beshocked wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:As an Irish fan nothing concerns me about the English tight five apart from the scrum if Mike 'fuelled by pies' Ross goes off injured. Parling and Launchbury seem hugely overrated by the press and English fans- not really surprising considering the succession of locks paraded since 2003. They are perfectly good second rows, but far from the second coming. Ireland could get the upper hand there in that battle. Its the back row I fear. Haskell- easy to loath, but still a good player. Wood will be slightly undermined if he is moved to 8 but he is terrific at the breakdown. I know it will upset you sensitive lads roaring Rule Britannia but he is no Richard Hill, but he is still bloody good. I wouldn't swap him for Ferris or O'Brien but he is a different sort of 6 after all. Robshaw, from captain imbecile to Lions captain if you believe these boards and the press. He's no Tipuric thats for sure, and I'm not sure about his leadership qualities but he is better on the deck than SOB and POM. Also Ireland possess possibly the form 7 in the Heinekin cup this season in Chris Henry but obviously his accent is too close to your lot to be considered for Ireland. And my friend kalls me a toube for nat smokin? Aye, dead on. I fear Wood and Robshaw will dominate SOB and POM and then its horse burgers all round for us. Hold the onions. I have some class.

If Sexton kicks as aimlessly and dreadfully to England as he did in the second half against Wales then its curtains. If Farrell can desist from looking like he just had a rectal exam from John Inverdale and kicks at ickle Craig Gilroy all day long you will get plenty of ball. If Earls plays centre then his turnstile defence will mean Tuilgai going off the pitch to change underpants every ten minutes- you know, because he'll be really enjoying himself out there.

England comfortable winners for me this week. We can't rely on the sheer incompetent selection of Rob Howley to help us on the way.

"Robshaw, from captain imbecile to Lions captain if you believe these boards and the press. He's no Tipuric thats for sure,"

Absolute gem of a quote. You are implying Robshaw is overhyped yet imply Tipuric isn't?

Parling and Launchbury - play well for England in their first few caps so are labelled as overhyped by jealous opposition fans.

Not sure what Farrell pulling a face has to do with anything unless of course it frightens the Irish players.

Agree about Earls though. In the 2011 warm up match Tuilagi ran him over.

Apologies if I wasn't clear. I wasn't implying Robshaw is overhyped, I'm stating it outright. Of course he's getting overhyped. His decision making in the autumn lead many English fans and some journalists to question if he was captain material. Now approximately two games later he's an odds on Lions captain? If you fancy it come join me in the real world. It's delightful. He's a pretty good 7 but he isn't as good as Tipuric. For the ten minutes or so that Tipuric was on the pitch with our backrow that is likely to start he dominated them. Robshaw isn't as good as Tipuric, but with Wood there was a strong indication that England could do some serious damage there. Of course Ireland possess the form 7 in European rugby (arguably. Now when I say form I mean he's in the best form, not the best player before anyone foams at the mouth) in Chris Henry. He'll be getting splinters in his rump like he's having a sit down protest about Flegs. Wood and Robshaw could have a field day.

Why on earth would I be jealous of Parling and Launchbury? Sure we have our own two perfectly passable but hardly world class locks in Ryan and McCarthy. They are perfectly adequate second rows but these guys are treated as of they are the second coming. Any time I hear the shrill pronunciations of English supporters on how good these locks are I think back to the 'divine athleticism' of Courtney Lawes, the Lions cert, and laugh. Now where's the thumbs up icon. Now seems a fitting time to use it Jealous of Parling and Launchbury. Be serious man. Now someone like Wood, Cole or even Tuilagi- they are people to be jealous of. But your second rows? Bejeezus lad catch a grip.

Farrell's kicking face is deplorable. He needs to sort it out. There will be children up and down the land practising the look. At least when the auld screechers in women's tennis are wailing at the top of their lungs you can turn down the volume. Not when Farrell is kicking. He'll put me off my dinner on Sunday.

Yep Farrell looks pretty special when taking goal kicks. Surprised he isnt getting more flak over it.

There was nothing wrong with Robshaws decision against South Africa.

What was wrong though was that he allowed his team mates to dissent to him and question himself before asking referee (unssuccesfully) if he could change his mind.

If he did it there and then I think his decision to kick at goal was the right one.

Courtney Lawes is on the bench and looked sharp when came on as did all the forward replacements. For all your ranting Hookisms and Hyperbole, you sound a bit scared...

Old teacher of mine used to say - man who never made any mistakes never made anything.

Always an issue in these parts that rugby players are fixed and fully formed the moment they first take a step in the international arena and they can neither get better or worse.

The best thing to be said for the English team is that for nearly all of them their best days are hopefully still ahead

red_stag wrote:There was nothing wrong with Robshaws decision against South Africa.

What was wrong though was that he allowed his team mates to dissent to him and question himself before asking referee (unssuccesfully) if he could change his mind.

If he did it there and then I think his decision to kick at goal was the right one.

Of course he was right in the first place. My question is with English fans and the press. He didn't have a clue then and now he's the greatest captain since Churchill or Edward the Confessor. He's a pretty decent 6 or 7 but I wouldn't have him in the Irish team. But if we go with POM, Heaslip and SOB he and Wood are going to be made to look very very good.

Sugarlump wrote:Courtney Lawes is on the bench and looked sharp when came on as did all the forward replacements. For all your ranting Hookisms and Hyperbole, you sound a bit scared...

Ah Jeezus, I'm quaking in my boots. I have no doubt England will win the match after watching our second half display against Wales. I just don't think this English team are all that great. Pretty decent for sure, but a two steps forward, one step back kind of team. But at least they are going forward. As for Ireland? Declan Kidney. That is all.

I'm still struggling with the image of Lawes having the ball stripped from him by a centre. Launchbury, I think, might be a bit special, although that is based on gut instinct and his all of two international starts. Parling is a very solid international class lock, without necessarily showing that he is the second coming of John Eales. However, I don't think that I'd swap either of the two English starters for any other pair of locks in the NH on current form. Lawes needs to act his size a bit more, for me.

Robshaw - doesnt really matter what we think its what the team think. Bad decisions or no they seem to be genuinely very keen on his leadership. They want to play for him.

He also comes across well (if bland) in the media and doesnt seem arrogant. We have had some good and bad leadership in recent years but hes doing everything he can to make a mark and change peoples minds, and so far hes looking good

lostinwales wrote:Always an issue in these parts that rugby players are fixed and fully formed the moment they first take a step in the international arena and they can neither get better or worse.

Agree Agree AGREE

Parling IMO is the most improved English player over the last year (admittedly from an initial fairly average standard), and Launchbury is the new boy who has caught everyone’s eye and is keeping Lawes at bay– hardly over-rated.

Not sure I can agree that Robshaw/Wood are better on the deck than SOB/POM. I think it is fairly even, but I am very excited to see who comes out on top on Sunday. Something that most tend to forget though is that the breakdown battle involves many more players than just your flankers and 8. Best/Healy for Ireland and Cole for England are some examples of front row players with fantastic abilities on the deck. In the second row Launchbury provides mobility and shown he is pretty effective at forcing turnovers against Scotland. Ryan is known for these qualities also, and sheer aggression at the ruck area.

Having a pack full of players who are effective at the breakdown is more important than just one brillaint number 7. The thing that separates McCaw from the likes of Pocock is that his all round play is exceptional. The NZ pack as a whole have the primary duty of feeding the ball to their very dangerous backline.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

red_stag wrote:There was nothing wrong with Robshaws decision against South Africa.

What was wrong though was that he allowed his team mates to dissent to him and question himself before asking referee (unssuccesfully) if he could change his mind.

If he did it there and then I think his decision to kick at goal was the right one.

Of course he was right in the first place. My question is with English fans and the press. He didn't have a clue then and now he's the greatest captain since Churchill or Edward the Confessor. He's a pretty decent 6 or 7 but I wouldn't have him in the Irish team. But if we go with POM, Heaslip and SOB he and Wood are going to be made to look very very good.

Sugarlump wrote:Courtney Lawes is on the bench and looked sharp when came on as did all the forward replacements. For all your ranting Hookisms and Hyperbole, you sound a bit scared...

Ah Jeezus, I'm quaking in my boots. I have no doubt England will win the match after watching our second half display against Wales. I just don't think this English team are all that great. Pretty decent for sure, but a two steps forward, one step back kind of team. But at least they are going forward. As for Ireland? Declan Kidney. That is all.

Fair enough mate, but I think you'll change your view on Launchbury the more you see him play

Agreed Rory.

Just like England have Launchbury and Cole who compete at the breakdown, Ireland have Healy and Best. In fact of all our back row, the one who does the most 'dirty work' at the breakdown is probably Heaslip.

The packs are actually quite similar, a front row of mobile guys who excel at the breakdown, second rows that compete both in the line out and on the deck, and can make the hard yards, and back rows filled with strong carriers. And there's the odd exception (Ross)...

The bench is interesting too. Ireland have two mobile front row replacements (Killer and Nugget) and one guy who can just about run the length of himself (Fitzpatrick). England have three good replacements who will barrel around the field and cause a nuisance, especially Hartley.

Second row replacements, O'Callaghan has improved this season but he's not a dynamic player like Lawes. Back row Henry and Vunipola are different beasts and can both change the game, but I'd far rather see Henry starting!

The changes I'd make would only be on the bench for Ireland assuming D'Arcy is fit, with Henderson for O'Callaghan, Jackson for Radge and Fitzgerald for Earls.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Not sure I can agree that Robshaw/Wood are better on the deck than SOB/POM. I think it is fairly even, but I am very excited to see who comes out on top on Sunday. Something that most tend to forget though is that the breakdown battle involves many more players than just your flankers and 8. Best/Healy for Ireland and Cole for England are some examples of front row players with fantastic abilities on the deck. In the second row Launchbury provides mobility and shown he is pretty effective at forcing turnovers against Scotland. Ryan is known for these qualities also, and sheer aggression at the ruck area.

Having a pack full of players who are effective at the breakdown is more important than just one brillaint number 7. The thing that separates McCaw from the likes of Pocock is that his all round play is exceptional. The NZ pack as a whole have the primary duty of feeding the ball to their very dangerous backline.

It's hard for POM to be effective on the deck because he is often out on the wing having a wee rest. SOB has been getting a lot of praise for his performance against Wales. I thought he put in a hard working shift and defended bravery. At the breakdown he was relatively anonymous. He set a standard utterly outplaying McCaw in the summer two tests in a row. He was no where near that. The test for him is to show that the Wales game was a blip rather than the NZ tests as flukes. You need to largely rely on the backrow as Healy and Best can't go for 80 minutes being pretend flankers.

Sugarlump wrote:Fair enough mate, but I think you'll change your view on Launchbury the more you see him play

Nothing wrong with noting Launchbury has great potential. But two tests in he has shown just that- potential. Give me some consistency over the course of the Six Nations and I'll join the club. Plenty of players have come in, looked good for a couple of tests and then never performed again. Two words, Andy Powell. You're welcome.

In fairness to SoB by making 23 tackles and carrying as much ball as he did dominating the breakdown as well would be a tough task.Best did most of the top class breakdown work and freed up SoB for the other stuff.

I don't think our backrow need to do anything in particular as long as every man puts in a solid shift of work ,if SoB is concentrating on the breakdown when we need his to be tackling or vice versa that's not a good thing.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Not sure I can agree that Robshaw/Wood are better on the deck than SOB/POM. I think it is fairly even, but I am very excited to see who comes out on top on Sunday. Something that most tend to forget though is that the breakdown battle involves many more players than just your flankers and 8. Best/Healy for Ireland and Cole for England are some examples of front row players with fantastic abilities on the deck. In the second row Launchbury provides mobility and shown he is pretty effective at forcing turnovers against Scotland. Ryan is known for these qualities also, and sheer aggression at the ruck area.

Having a pack full of players who are effective at the breakdown is more important than just one brillaint number 7. The thing that separates McCaw from the likes of Pocock is that his all round play is exceptional. The NZ pack as a whole have the primary duty of feeding the ball to their very dangerous backline.

Seems to be some concerns of the backrow complement the same as when Wally was our openside again very much overstated. The overall backrow composition worked well. POM as blindside was our most effective ball carrier and even managed a turnover or two (including the penalty at the end of the first half). SOB contested well and was usually first up tackler with others (as you would expect) managing the turnover or penalty. Heaslip does need to improve but overall I cant think of any weaknesses shown last weekend...unless of course you are being very picky and slightly deranged......

Strange to think that the probable English backline for this week has a total of 120 caps (If Tuilagi comes in for 36 - 104 if not) and BOD has a total of 121 caps...

In fact the Irish team has over 500 caps compared to their English counterparts on only 258... Yes they have a big game temperament, but will the Irish experience tell?

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:Strange to think that the probable English backline for this week has a total of 120 caps (If Tuilagi comes in for 36 - 104 if not) and BOD has a total of 121 caps...

In fact the Irish team has over 500 caps compared to their English counterparts on only 258... Yes they have a big game temperament, but will the Irish experience tell?

Same with the AB game. Cap ratio didn't bother England's young pups then.

England were at home then, gregor. Not many of the English have played in Dublin with lots riding on the outcome.

I agree largley with what ASLS says. POM and SOB are both similar in that they excel in multiple aspects of the game. Both are great at carrying, both are great tacklers, both great on the ground. POM is also fantastic in the line-out. I think we are very fortunate to have two players with a wide asset of skills rather than players that must play one specific role. In fact I think this is much more balanced than the mythical tackling 6, pilfering 7 and carrying 8. We have two guys who can perfrom all 3 roles very effectively.

Of the guys who've played in Ireland in the 6N, only Youngs, Cole, Wood and Haskell are in the starting XV, with Flood, Care and Hartley on the bench. So that's a lot of guys who've never experienced the 6N atmosphere in Dublin...

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Sugarlump wrote:Fair enough mate, but I think you'll change your view on Launchbury the more you see him play

Nothing wrong with noting Launchbury has great potential. But two tests in he has shown just that- potential. Give me some consistency over the course of the Six Nations and I'll join the club. Plenty of players have come in, looked good for a couple of tests and then never performed again. Two words, Andy Powell. You're welcome.

Well there's a player who if only had the brains to match his brawn! I never talked Andy Powell up although I must admit I did prematurely splurge over Matt Tait, Danny Cipriani and James Simpson-Daniel

Not many England players have many caps between them so it would be difficult for them have much of an aura about them. Courtney Lawes though, is an excellent player of huge potential who has had a couple set-backs through injury but he would have walked back into the XV if it wasn't for Launchbury. A similar statement could be made for Hartley and Youngs, and I suppose to Foden although he maybe hasn't regained his form yet.

Talking of inexperienced young players, what of the chances of seeing the admittedly very nimble but slight figures of Gilroy and Zebo getting enveloped and, to use Mick Skinner's parlance, 'munched'?! Of course they could also streak across the field like scolded whippets outstripping everyone to under the posts!

I'm rambling, it's excited rambling though

Sugarlump wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

Sugarlump wrote:Fair enough mate, but I think you'll change your view on Launchbury the more you see him play

Nothing wrong with noting Launchbury has great potential. But two tests in he has shown just that- potential. Give me some consistency over the course of the Six Nations and I'll join the club. Plenty of players have come in, looked good for a couple of tests and then never performed again. Two words, Andy Powell. You're welcome.

Well there's a player who if only had the brains to match his brawn! I never talked Andy Powell up although I must admit I did prematurely splurge over Matt Tait, Danny Cipriani and James Simpson-Daniel

Not many England players have many caps between them so it would be difficult for them have much of an aura about them. Courtney Lawes though, is an excellent player of huge potential who has had a couple set-backs through injury but he would have walked back into the XV if it wasn't for Launchbury. A similar statement could be made for Hartley and Youngs, and I suppose to Foden although he maybe hasn't regained his form yet.

Talking of inexperienced young players, what of the chances of seeing the admittedly very nimble but slight figures of Gilroy and Zebo getting enveloped and, to use Mick Skinner's parlance, 'munched'?! Of course they could also streak across the field like scolded whippets outstripping everyone to under the posts!

I'm rambling, it's excited rambling though

Sugar,

I think Gilly proved he won't be 'munched' on Saturday when he man and balled North... Twas Drico'esque... I think the wide boys will be fine!

Fair play, that does take some doing!

I've thought about this one for long enough, and I think that I'm going to call it.

Here are two sides that are mirror images of each other, especially up front. I foresee very little being given away there. The half-backs are all pretty competent, and each side offers a mix of attack and defence at centre, whether through the rapier or the battering ram. The one place that I see a difference is in strike power out wide. In a game of possibly few chances, I have a feeling that Ireland may just be better at taking theirs. Together with home advantage, that should be enough.

Ireland by 5.

Ouch, Sugarlump does not like this

I think it'll be Ireland by 5-9. I'd almost settle for losing but actually competing at the breakdown. If Ross is out and the scrum is smashed like last year it would be pretty disappointing if other parts of our game are substandard.

Hood83 wrote:

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

2) In possession: When the moment arrives they need to end those same attacking phases with a far higher proportion of CLEVER kicks through and behind the English last line, so as to at least keep England turning round and thereby forcing their big forwards to run up and down and sideways as much as possible. If they can do that properly, then the sheer physical bulk of the English forwards will start to play against them and will hopefully negate the effectiveness of their own charging game at the fringes of the breakdown.

This is my concern with your thinking. Everyone seems to rush to a default that England has a huge pack. We don't, certainly not compared to others we've put out. Parling, T Youngs, Cole, Marler, Launchbury, Wood and even Robshaw - none of these are bruisers or 'enforcers'. None are massive carriers. Our front five is technical and mobile, and only Haskell and Morgan in our back-row are physically dominating. The rest are swarmers more than battering rams, similar to Ireland i'd say.

I don't really disagree too much on that point Hood. Despite what I wrote, I wasn't trying to say that on a one-to-one basis all the English are bigger heavier monsters that the Irish individually can't match. And I'm not trying to say that this England team can't string together some good flowing rugby in the back line...

My main point is strategic. It's that Ireland have always struggled with the physicality of tournament rugby. It is difficult for Ireland to go toe-to-toe up-front week-in, week-out with the other 'bigger nations'. And when Ireland play well two weeks in a row (as in the late 00's), it tends to have involved a fair butt-load of tactical kicking and a good few nail-biting, low-scoring games. Ireland have never been able to transfer the 'Leinster-style' to the international game [much as us Leinster supporters would have wished for it!].

England , on the other hand, have a long tradition of playing a smothering gainline game that (when it works) physically strangles the life out of some of the strongest and best attacking teams around. This is the superior physicality I'm referring to. Scotland looked fairly swamped by it last week. Fair enough, we're no Scotland. But my worry would be that Ireland might get all riled up and run headlong into that bear-hug, conceding penalty after penalty (and maybe some yellow cards along with them) and then having to chase the game with little left in the tank.

Don't get me wrong. Obviously Ireland need to take the English on physically. And going wide immediately on every phase (or the No. 10 kicking every ball he takes) is obviously not going to work either! But it is a matter of emphasis and it is a matter of where and when they choose to engage the English pack on the pitch. We need some guile and calm from Sexton and a few other heads early on [including BOD who can often be one of the worst offenders for trying too much, too early!]. We need to make the English pant and puff (left-and-right and up-and-down) for a good 20-25 mins of each half rather than simply taking them on in an arm-wrestle up-front and trying to score tries from the first whistle. Then, when it most counts, we can maybe punch some holes in the English blanket defence. And if England are having to chase scores, it will be a completely different game.

I'm hoping for a relatively low scoring game... dominated by penalties for the first long while. With Ireland taking the win with a decisive try in the second half!

I agree with that Nos Bloke!

[quote="Nos na Gaoithe"][quote="Hood83"]

Nos na Gaoithe wrote:

I'm hoping for a relatively low scoring game... dominated by penalties for the first long while. With Ireland taking the win with a decisive try in the second half!

That's pretty much how I see it unfolding, Nos.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Gleesonisgod, Ireland's tight 5 is noticeably stronger than what and when? Last year's Ireland team? Probably so. This year's England team? Very little in it, either in the scrum or in the line-out, and much depends on Ross for the former holding true.

The back rows are remarkably similar in style, with a fair bit of bish bosh on either side and no true scavenger to see anywhere. I see no advantage to either team on paper, and a case of the "the better eight on the day will hold sway".

Ireland undoubtedly has the better back three, but I wouldn't want to bet that they'll have as much chance to prove it as they did last week. That's what makes this game so fascinating and why I believe that your prediction of a comfortable verdict is off the mark.

Not comfortable, just more comfortable than people think. And as I mentioned, it all depends on Ross staying fit. I think Ross will hold parity in the scrum and on the whole our front row is better around the park.

GunsGerms wrote:Yep Farrell looks pretty special when taking goal kicks. Surprised he isnt getting more flak over it.

Also does anyone else find it annoying that you can see his nipples through his jersey?

Is Ross an injury doubt then?

One random musing I had on Sat while watching the Scotland game was England's lack of mauls, last 6N we tried at every opportunity and were utterly Poopie at it, glad to see we've given up on this and just gone with other options.

GunsGerms wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Yep Farrell looks pretty special when taking goal kicks. Surprised he isnt getting more flak over it.

Also does anyone else find it annoying that you can see his nipples through his jersey?

I don't mind how he, or indeed his nipples, look so long as he kicks his penalties on Sunday...

GunsGerms wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Yep Farrell looks pretty special when taking goal kicks. Surprised he isnt getting more flak over it.

Also does anyone else find it annoying that you can see his nipples through his jersey?

Haha, does anything about England not annoy you?!

Head says Englan, heart Ireland. If we can slow ball the banana defence will be somewhat successful in containing points I think. Rosary Beads are out for Mike Ross and D'Arcy (never thought I would say that). Should be a good one, we need one over the English, I need to take the pish out of Duty for his stupid "Engerland is the greatest eva" shoite!

EnglishReign wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Yep Farrell looks pretty special when taking goal kicks. Surprised he isnt getting more flak over it.

Also does anyone else find it annoying that you can see his nipples through his jersey?

Haha, does anything about England not annoy you?!

I like the way they lose to Ireland a lot.

Thomond wrote:Head says Englan, heart Ireland. If we can slow ball the banana defence will be somewhat successful in containing points I think. Rosary Beads are out for Mike Ross and D'Arcy (never thought I would say that). Should be a good one, we need one over the English, I need to take the pish out of Duty for his stupid "Engerland is the greatest eva" shoite!

They both look set to start. England will probably target he scrum anyway.

This game is being talked about being (A) Grand Slam desider. ( b) all so being talked as who will start at 10 for the Lions. Farrel or Sexton?

Personaly i think they will both go.

Either way i think we are in for a great match.

I've thought about this one for long enough, and I think that I'm going to call it.

Here are two sides that are mirror images of each other, especially up front. I foresee very little being given away there. The half-backs are all pretty competent, and each side offers a mix of attack and defence at centre, whether through the rapier or the battering ram. The one place that I see a difference is in strike power out wide. In a game of possibly few chances, I have a feeling that Ireland may just be better at taking theirs. Together with home advantage, that should be enough.

Ireland by 5.

As an England fan, this is pretty much how I see the game going, except I expect us to have the advantage in the scrum to weigh against Ireland's advantage out wide. Still, with home advantage I think the Irish have to be slight favourites.

I am confident - not that confident, but England have won in Ireland on their last visit. I know that was not the best Irish team by any means but it was a big deal for us, breaking that hoodoo.

Then there was that game last year...

There will be no dishonor whoever wins or looses it should be a damn good game.

The core of this English side will have only experienced victory against Ireland, in Lasdowne before the RWC and in Twickenham last year, they will hold no fear of Ireland away.

Thomond wrote:The core of this English side will have only experienced victory against Ireland, in Lasdowne before the RWC and in Twickenham last year, they will hold no fear of Ireland away.

Didn't Farrell miss everything on his recent visit to Thomond Park? I wonder can the Aviva do spooky silence?

I rather tend to agree, this England squad will not have any fear of playing Ireland in Dublin. But, I think that's a hallmark of Lancaster's team. They won't be afraid of anyone as we saw last summer in South Africa. The Boks were better, but England came out and played with everything they had. A great trait in a young team.

But, equally, Ireland holds no fears about England. Despite losing in the 6 Nations last year, they had beaten England for what seems to be the last gazillion times.

I think this is another factor which helps make the match so interesting. Two professional teams with no limitations preventing them from going hammer and tongs.

I can't bloody wait!

My guess is that Ireland will come out the stronger and take an early lead. That will be a big test of England's composure.

If they can stick to their guns, and trust their processes, England have the stronger bench and a number of players with huge engines. They have the ability to finish strongly, wear down the Irish defence, and start punching some big holes.

This is going to come down to who can hold their nerve and discipline the longest, I think.

[quote="Submachine"]

GunsGerms wrote:

greytiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

greytiger wrote:PS-A will revert to another national stereotype by making wholesale squad changes whilst Wales will follow their own stereotype by following their morbid belief in confidence. So they'll get mushed repeatedly until the hwyl is revived. So that'll be Cardiff v the Sais.

Ireland will be buoyant in Blackpool next weekend. And the crowd will be baying for tasty English blood. But the nasty English in turn will be wanting to stamp its heavy heel on the local insurrection,

Scotland will be brave but will they be haunted by thoughts of 'noble losers' tags. Meanwhile the Italian army will be worried about finding a forward gear on the tank twice in succession.

Blackpool? Wha?

Tasty English blood?!? Fi fi fo fum, Id rather drink warm beer.

For as long as International sport has been played GG, young Englishmen have been going to Blackpool for a weekend of fun even though there's a danger of being mugged by the locals.

Plus if you don't like warm beer then you probably have had your taste buds dulled. Try some English fare like Balti, tikka masala or an old-fashioned Biryani.

Nothing wrong with Indian food, love that. Warm beer is pi$$ though. Id be afraid it would dull my taste buds rather than the other way round.

Dublin = Dubh Linn = Black Pool

I'm a bit lost here but I assume Grey is talking about Dublin anglicised version of Dubh Linn which translates as Black Pool. Once upon a time there were two visible rivers in Dublin. The Liffey and the Poddle which is now mostly underground. They both met in the centre of dublin to form a stinking cesspit, now known as government buildings.

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Worth logging in just to applaud that last piece - excellent stuff!

Re the comment on Robshaw below.

"Of course he was right in the first place. My question is with English fans and the press. He didn't have a clue then and now he's the greatest captain since Churchill or Edward the Confessor."

Hooky, that's complete nonsense. Robshaw, along with Warburton, and more recently O'Driscoll and Best have all been put in the frame by various pundits. The majority seem to be swayed towards BOD.

However, Heaslip has been making all the right noises about wanting the Ireland players to view country above Province. If he can really pull that one off then he fully deserves to be Lions captain.

Oh, and England will get munched. They will just roll over once those fearsome amplified drum rolls start blasting out of the Aviva p.a. system.