The Crunch: Ireland v England Sunday 10th February 2013

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aka L'O'Choc: Irelande v Angleterre Dimanche le 10me Février 2013After going AWOL again yesterday, the French have most likely reduced the 6Ns title to a single game to determine the title.

Such a shame.

Discussion about the game - not about France going walkabout as originally intended.

Teams:

Greater Dublin Representative XXIII

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster/42)
14 - Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster/2)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster/121)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster/72)
11 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster/4)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster/35)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster/15)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster/36)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster/63)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster/25)
4 - Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht/7)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster/24)
6 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster/10)
7 - Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster/23)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster/53) Captain

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster/23)
17 - David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster/3)
18 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster/3)
19 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster/91)
20 - Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster/5)
21 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster/48)
22 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster/126)
23 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster/35)

The Perfidious Albion

15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 7 caps)
14. Chris Ashton (Saracens, 30 caps)
13. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 12 caps)
12. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 1 caps)
11. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 12 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 13 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 29 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 6 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 36 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 5 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps)
6. James Haskell (London Wasps, 46 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 13 caps)
8. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 10 caps)

Replacements
16. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 43 caps)
17. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 23 caps)
18. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 5 caps)
19. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 16 caps)
20. Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers, 4 caps)
21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 38 caps)
22. Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
23. Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 17 caps)

Gibson wrote:

greytiger wrote:

nobbled wrote:

PJHolybloke wrote:The game's on Sunday.

England win on Sundays.

That is all.

Because God loves us!

Which is just as well 'cos everyone else hates us...

I thought God was playing for the Irish nobbled.

Brian Cox and Richard Dawkins will be happy though.

Loving the banter lads. Its going to be some game.

England have to be realistic favs for this. They are a year ahead us in their redevelopment, are playing with great fluidity, have a coach I admire so much, have a completely different, young, team and team-spirit than 2 years ago... And they have just well beaten the ABs, when no other NH team could come even near them.

New England are on a roll leading up to 2015. Its up to us to try and stop it, for a day at least.

Believe.

You and yer soft social skills Gibbo.

Not the message you were putting about on the Irish thread

And there was me thinking the Blarney was a Munster provincial copyright.

Personally I think that any predictions are pure heart not head on this one.
The bookies odds look to be even closer now if anything than they were yesterday.
http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/six-nations/ireland-v-england/winner

Do people know when the IRE team is being announced?

Its a bit late in the day if they don't announce it today.... surely if their injuries are that "touch and go" the players in question shouldn't be playing.

In 15 minutes, 1:30 live here:

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/28321.php

thanks GunsGerms

No prob. Team will be as expected. All fit, I guessing.

Its today at 13:30

GunsGerms wrote:In 15 minutes, 1:30 live here:

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/28321.php

WOOOOOOOOOOOO, here it comes!

WHERE IS IT ALREADY!!!!!!

Theres Jamie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As expected. No changes

do you poor Irish lads still have funny 'opening hours' on a Sunday?

Hope ROG has another blinder on Sunday. He was brilliant last week. Best game he ever had.

Shock there!

Think Jamie must have been taking style tips from Gok Wan. So clean cut.

Would have had McFadden in for Earls... but he's Deccie' s love-child. Hope Dorce lasts the full 80.

TrailApe wrote:do you poor Irish lads still have funny 'opening hours' on a Sunday?

Yep, pubs don't open till 12pm i think. Some of them close at 11pm but there are always late bars open so don't worry about that.

Really impressed with Jamie here. Articulate and concise. BOD must have given him lessons...

Mickado wrote:

TrailApe wrote:do you poor Irish lads still have funny 'opening hours' on a Sunday?

Yep, pubs don't open till 12pm i think. Some of them close at 11pm but there are always late bars open so don't worry about that.

They used to close for the 'holy hour' (about 2pm?) but you could line one up for the duration. They had to shut the bar - not the premises.

beshocked wrote:doctor grey would you have wanted Strettle starting?

Unfortunately there's no left winger really putting their hands up except for possibly Varndell. Varndell is ignored because of his defense but should he?

Good point. Unfortunately. No desire to see Strettle on the pitch whatsoever.

Gibson wrote:Really impressed with Jamie here. Articulate and concise. BOD must have given him lessons...

BOD was never a good captain. Just a hell of a better player than everyone else.

Someone like Leo Cullen is a much better captain.

Ireland used to just do what underage teams do - make your best player captain.

greytiger wrote:

Mickado wrote:

TrailApe wrote:do you poor Irish lads still have funny 'opening hours' on a Sunday?

Yep, pubs don't open till 12pm i think. Some of them close at 11pm but there are always late bars open so don't worry about that.

They used to close for the 'holy hour' (about 2pm?) but you could line one up for the duration. They had to shut the bar - not the premises.

Oh yeah, complete madness! That's gone since I started drinking in pubs, about 10 years ago now.

Having both picked up victories in Round One, the clash between Ireland and England is being viewed as a premature Six Nations title decider.



Addressing Sunday's match in Dublin as a sign for who will take him the trophy next month is a tad pre-emptive, yet England and Ireland both did enough on the opening weekend to suggest they possess championship material.


Starting with Ireland, we will be lucky if we witness as dominant an opening quarter such as the one Declan Kidney's side produced against Wales in Cardiff, from any team again in this Six Nations. Ireland were as brilliant as Wales were awful - with better execution, planning and power at the breakdown, not to mention a moment of magic from Brian O'Driscoll to add to his already vast collection.


That clinical edge that Ireland showed in Cardiff has only been witnessed in flashes over previous years - the win over Australia at the Rugby World Cup, last November against Argentina - since Ireland captured the Grand Slam in 2009.


Their second half however was a different matter. Ireland's well of possession dried up following O'Driscoll's try, forcing them into a defensive workout that by the end left their tackle count at 200 - with Cian Healy and Mike McCarthy making 21 and 20 respectively - along with the concession of three tries.


Arguably the contest was already over at 3-30, but Ireland's defensive lapses at one stage let concern grow as to whether they could hold on. In many ways it was a timely reminder that Ireland are far from perfect - enough to keep them humble and realistic before facing the "arrogant" English on Sunday.


Except England are not so arrogant anymore. Saturday's victory over Scotland was convincing and yet the immediate statement from Stuart Lancaster was that England could do better.


He is not wrong - four tries, a scrum and lineout with success rates over 83% and an impressive number of completed passes (221) are all positive signs - but more points were left out on the field.


Debate has been fierce in the build-up to Sunday's fixture about who should make up England's centre pairing and whilst a combination of Billy Twelvetrees and Manu Tuilagi may represent the future, the threat posed by Ireland in midfield is enough to make Lancaster think again and keep Brad Barritt.


The possibility of a Grand Slam in 2013 appears minimal given the proximity of the competition, but by the end of Sunday one more candidate will be snuffed out. We are set for a thriller.


Ones to watch:


For Ireland: The fact that Brian O'Driscoll still holds so much sway and influence aged 34 and after 127 caps is a testament to his talent. O'Driscoll offered a reminder of this against Wales and will be closely marked by England this weekend. His speed has gradually been replaced by power around the fringes - a test for any tired tacklers late in the game. Elsewhere, Donnacha Ryan will be charged with attempting to disrupt England's efficient lineout and prevent an easy platform for Ben Youngs and Owen Farrell.


For England Previous trips to Dublin have shown that if points are on offer, England cannot afford to let them slip. That focuses attention on Owen Farrell - the Saracens fly-half whose kicking form of late has been exceptional. Still only 20, Sunday is another test of Farrell's maturity and composure, although so far he has answered all the questions thrown at him. His midfield partner Billy Twelvetrees will also be under similar scrutiny after a promising debut, because he offers qualities at inside centre that England have lacked for some time - a markedly different player from when England last played a Six Nations match in Dublin and employed the battering ram that is Matt Banahan.


Head-to-head: A positive start for Jamie Heaslip to open his account as Ireland's permanent captain will have no doubt settled some nerves and silenced some doubters. Against England however, Heaslip will need to bring and give everything he has. His opposite man will be someone to whom the number eight shirt is fairly unfamiliar, Tom Wood. In outstanding form since his return from injury at the beginning of the season, Wood was one of England's top performers against New Zealand and Scotland. Despite few starts at number eight, Wood has the power and ability to handle the positional switch.


Recent results:


2012: England won 30-9 at Twickenham
2011: England won 20-9 in Dublin
2011: Ireland won 24-8 in Dublin
2010: Ireland won 20-16 at Twickenham
2009:Ireland won 14-13 in Dublin
2008: England won 33-10 at Twickenham
2007: Ireland won 43-13 in Dublin
2006: Ireland won 28-24 at Twickenham
2005: Ireland won 19-13 in Dublin
2004: Ireland won 19-13 at Twickenham
2003: England won 42-6 in Dublin


Prediction: This one is close. Ireland's home record against England - 2011's Rugby World Cup warm-up result aside - is exceptional over the last decade. The gaps between the two sides when it comes to the scrums, lineouts and breakdown are minimal, leaving it down to a missed kick from either Sexton or Farrell to separate them. Only a moment of magic will settle this and despite England's bright start under Stuart Lancaster, Ireland's home advantage could be the difference. Ireland by 5.


The teams:


Ireland: 15 Rob Kearney, 14 Craig Gilroy, 13 Brian O'Driscoll, 12 Gordon D'Arcy, 11 Simon Zebo, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Conor Murray, 8 Jamie Heaslip (c), 7 Sean O'Brien, 6 Peter O'Mahony, 5 Donnacha Ryan, 4 Mike McCarthy , 3 Mike Ross, 2 Rory Best, 1 Cian Healy.
Replacements: 16 Sean Cronin, 17 Dave Kilcoyne, 18 Declan Fitzpatrick, 19 Donncha O'Callaghan, 20 Chris Henry, 21 Eoin Reddan, 22 Ronan O'Gara, 23 Keith Earls.


England: 15 Alex Goode, 14 Chris Ashton, 13 Brad Barritt, 12 Billy Twelvetrees, 11 Mike Brown, 10 Owen Farrell, 9 Ben Youngs, 8 Tom Wood, 7 Chris Robshaw (c), 6 James Haskell, 5 Geoff Parling, 4 Joe Launchbury, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Tom Youngs, 1 Joe Marler.
Replacements: 16 Dylan Hartley, 17 David Wilson, 18 Mako Vunipola, 19 Courtney Lawes, 20 Thomas Waldrom, 21 Danny Care, 22 Toby Flood, 23 Manu Tuilagi.


Date: Sunday, 10 February
Venue: Aviva Stadium
Kick-off: 15:00 GMT
Referee: Jérôme Garces (France)
Assistant referees: Nigel Owens (Wales), Pascal Gauzere (France)
Television match official: Iain Ramage (Scotland


No suprises there at all.

Heaslip came across as a nice humble chap. Refused to say England were arrogant. Said they were nice guys. Said it was "just another game"

I bet they'll still come out like men possessed in the first 20!

My head says that Ireland will take this. I only say that because they're at home otherwise im having a devil of a time trying to predict this.

We definitely have the stronger bench.

Still nightmare scenario is us chasing the game with ROG coming on and pinning us into the corners and kicking a win sealing droppie.

Arrrrrrrgh the horror!!

bluestonevedder wrote:Wish Waldrom wasn't there. Would much rather see Vunipola on. Imagine subbing on Manu, Billy and Mako all at once after the half time break. Destruction.

I'm not convinced by a future front row of Croft, Robshaw, Wood. Still seems a little lightweight to me.

I know he's picked a FB at wing and an IC as an OC and a B/S as no.8 (and a centre at hooker), but not even SL is that odd a selector. Mind you - the fastest FR of all time. Not so good in the scrum.

Oh yeah, and England only have 2 world class players - and Croft's one of them.

red_stag wrote:

Gibson wrote:Really impressed with Jamie here. Articulate and concise. BOD must have given him lessons...

BOD was never a good captain. Just a hell of a better player than everyone else.

Someone like Leo Cullen is a much better captain.

Ireland used to just do what underage teams do - make your best player captain.

Ja roysh, ya Limerick WUM ya.

That's why he is probably the fav to Captain The Lions... HUGE job. And he is made for it.

Cant bate a good Blackrock College edcucation, roysh.

What's wrong with the front row in the scrum? Wait till they play Ireland before you throw out comments like that! And I'm not sure that we only (or even) have 2 World Class Players, and if we did, Croft isn't one of them IMO. You think he'd make a World 23??

Barney McGrew did it wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:Wish Waldrom wasn't there. Would much rather see Vunipola on. Imagine subbing on Manu, Billy and Mako all at once after the half time break. Destruction.

I'm not convinced by a future front row of Croft, Robshaw, Wood. Still seems a little lightweight to me.

I know he's picked a FB at wing and an IC as an OC and a B/S as no.8 (and a centre at hooker), but not even SL is that odd a selector. Mind you - the fastest FR of all time. Not so good in the scrum.

Oh yeah, and England only have 2 world class players - and Croft's one of them.

Ha, geez caught out! Cheers Barney. Heck of a mobile front row, but yeh, very poor at scrum time!

It's going to interesting to see how Croft fits into the squad upon his return. Last 6 Nations he really appeared to have added the physciality and breakdown work to his game, and hopefully he'll continue to improve in that facet.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:Wish Waldrom wasn't there. Would much rather see Vunipola on. Imagine subbing on Manu, Billy and Mako all at once after the half time break. Destruction.

I'm not convinced by a future front row of Croft, Robshaw, Wood. Still seems a little lightweight to me.

I know he's picked a FB at wing and an IC as an OC and a B/S as no.8 (and a centre at hooker), but not even SL is that odd a selector. Mind you - the fastest FR of all time. Not so good in the scrum.

Oh yeah, and England only have 2 world class players - and Croft's one of them.

Who's the other?

Oh, now I see. Yes, probably even Wood isn't that versatile. Sorry, my bad

Did anyone else see that BOD was named as BRITAIN's greatest ever player by the New Zealand herald...

Those Aussies always make that mistake

True, Britain is a hard word to spell especially for Antipodeans...

(just kidding)

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Did anyone else see that BOD was named as BRITIAN's greatest ever player by the New Zealand herald...

Those Aussies always make that mistake

Fiec they pinched Terry Wogan and Bob Geldoff, BOD could be next!

ChequeredJersey wrote:True, Britain is a hard word to spell especially for Antipodeans...

(just kidding)

Fixed it already bud.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Did anyone else see that BOD was named as BRITAIN's greatest ever player by the New Zealand herald...

Those Aussies always make that mistake

PIN IT UP ON THE DRESSING ROOM WALL LADS. USE IT. KILL KILL KILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It won't help. We don't have any Aussies. Kiwis, and Saffers and Pacific Islanders but no Aussies

Yeah next time you play them it might only be 62-3 with that motivation

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Yeah next time you play them it might only be 62-3 with that motivation

Well i was suggesting putting it up in the dressing room before we play England. But i don't think we'll need the motivation...

Oh, New Zealand Herald. Oops, making lots of mistakes today, lucky I'm avoiding any actual medicine. Hartley had better watch out...

rodders wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Did anyone else see that BOD was named as BRITIAN's greatest ever player by the New Zealand herald...

Those Aussies always make that mistake

Fiec they pinched Terry Wogan and Bob Geldoff, BOD could be next!

They can gladly have Wogan and Geldorf. We'll even throw in that gobshoite BowNo as well. A hatrick of gobshoites.

But we are hanging on to BOD.

Cian Healy labelled as from "England" on the RBS six nations website in this article. Not the first time the British media has claimed an Irish person as English. Do we all remember the Olympics when Katie Taylor was claimed to be on team GB.

Scroll down to healy!

>> http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/22099.php

RugbyFan182 wrote:Cian Healy labelled as from "England" on the RBS six nations website in this article. Not the first time the British media has claimed an Irish person as English. Do we all remember the Olympics when Katie Taylor was claimed to be on team GB.

Scroll down to healy!

>> http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/22099.php

A lot of the rugby fans in South Africa, NZ, Argentina etc just assume its all the one.

I work for a rugby tour operator and we often have teams from SA/Australia etc who ask us for a "14 Day Tour to Britain". To them that means coming to Ireland too.

So a tiring Ireland in the second half, after throwing everything at the English shield wall in the first half, will have to deal with Tuilagi for the last-half hour after Barritt has soaked up there attacking endeavours. Can't wait! Lancaster is a gutsy coach!

Gibson wrote:

rodders wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Did anyone else see that BOD was named as BRITIAN's greatest ever player by the New Zealand herald...

Those Aussies always make that mistake

Fiec they pinched Terry Wogan and Bob Geldoff, BOD could be next!

They can gladly have Wogan and Geldorf. We'll even throw in that gobshoite BowNo as well. A hatrick of gobshoites.

But we are hanging on to BOD.

...well they claimed Tuilagi and he isn't even from the same hemisphere!

Lancaster is just the Coach England needed. Swept away the old pissheads and brought in a whole new generation of dedicated players. England playing sexy rugby? Just like Munster are trying to now.

The Rugby World has gone decidedly mad.

Kidney has learned from him (and GATS) - albeit a bit late in the day. I could have told him that 4 years ago. Ah well...

RugbyFan182 wrote:Cian Healy labelled as from "England" on the RBS six nations website in this article. Not the first time the British media has claimed an Irish person as English. Do we all remember the Olympics when Katie Taylor was claimed to be on team GB.

Scroll down to healy!

>> http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/22099.php

The worst is the boxers especially in the amateur ranks where we have always had very good boxers . How many of them have been claimed by British media. In the pro game They just won't let go of Matthew Macklin even though he has said many times that he is a proud irish man. Also they have been quick to claim Carl Frampton.
Dont worrie though they let us have Andy Lee because it is unlikely he will ever be World champion

Gibson wrote:Lancaster is just the Coach England needed. Swept away the old pissheads and brought in a whole new generation of dedicated players. England playing sexy rugby? Just like Munster are trying to now.

The Rugby World has gone decidedly mad.

Kidney has learned from him (and GATS) - albeit a bit late in the day. I could have told him that 4 years ago. Ah well...

Playing the same old Record Gibbo....you know they moved onto CDs years ago...and now its all downloadable...yet you persist . Predictable and repetitive...

DOD wrote:

Gibson wrote:Lancaster is just the Coach England needed. Swept away the old pissheads and brought in a whole new generation of dedicated players. England playing sexy rugby? Just like Munster are trying to now.

The Rugby World has gone decidedly mad.

Kidney has learned from him (and GATS) - albeit a bit late in the day. I could have told him that 4 years ago. Ah well...

Playing the same old Record Gibbo....you know they moved onto CDs years ago...and now its all downloadable...yet you persist . Predictable and repetitive...

And in the sweet fullness of Time, Decco, as per, I was right. No need to bow. Ah gowan then.

Gibson wrote:

DOD wrote:

Gibson wrote:Lancaster is just the Coach England needed. Swept away the old pissheads and brought in a whole new generation of dedicated players. England playing sexy rugby? Just like Munster are trying to now.

The Rugby World has gone decidedly mad.

Kidney has learned from him (and GATS) - albeit a bit late in the day. I could have told him that 4 years ago. Ah well...

Playing the same old Record Gibbo....you know they moved onto CDs years ago...and now its all downloadable...yet you persist . Predictable and repetitive...

And in the sweet fullness of Time, Decco, as per, I was right. No need to bow. Ah gowan then.

Indeed....ah shure gowan yourself....

Enjoy the wedstrijd....

Look these people have heard of Britain, some of them have even been here. That was good enough for Shingler to claim he was Scottish.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Did anyone else see that BOD was named as BRITAIN's greatest ever player by the New Zealand herald...

Those Aussies always make that mistake

People wonder why there is some animosity between Ireland and Britain at times, it's things like this that play a big part of it like, ignorance and stupidity is something that is hard to eradicate seemingly.



Imagine calling a Canadian, American or a New Zealander an Australian. What a joke.


Never mind anyway, "England is the bestest place eva and we will win every tournament" That worked out well in the summer right Duty?

Thomond wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Did anyone else see that BOD was named as BRITAIN's greatest ever player by the New Zealand herald...

Those Aussies always make that mistake

People wonder why there is some animosity between Ireland and Britain at times, it's things like this that play a big part of it like, ignorance and stupidity is something that is hard to eradicate seemingly.



Imagine calling a Canadian, American or a New Zealander an Australian. What a joke.


Never mind anyway, "England is the bestest place eva and we will win every tournament" That worked out well in the summer right Duty?

Imagine if our media tried to claim one of their top athletes. They would probably demand an apology from Enda Kenny on behalf of the state.