The Crunch: Ireland v England Sunday 10th February 2013

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aka L'O'Choc: Irelande v Angleterre Dimanche le 10me Février 2013After going AWOL again yesterday, the French have most likely reduced the 6Ns title to a single game to determine the title.

Such a shame.

Discussion about the game - not about France going walkabout as originally intended.

Teams:

Greater Dublin Representative XXIII

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster/42)
14 - Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster/2)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster/121)
12 - Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster/72)
11 - Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster/4)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary's College/Leinster/35)
9 - Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster/15)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster/36)
2 - Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster/63)
3 - Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster/25)
4 - Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht/7)
5 - Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster/24)
6 - Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster/10)
7 - Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster/23)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster/53) Captain

Replacements:

16 - Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster/23)
17 - David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster/3)
18 - Declan Fitzpatrick (Dungannon/Ulster/3)
19 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster/91)
20 - Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster/5)
21 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster/48)
22 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster/126)
23 - Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster/35)

The Perfidious Albion

15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 7 caps)
14. Chris Ashton (Saracens, 30 caps)
13. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 12 caps)
12. Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 1 caps)
11. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 12 caps)
10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 13 caps)
9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 29 caps)

1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 6 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 36 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 5 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps)
6. James Haskell (London Wasps, 46 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 13 caps)
8. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 10 caps)

Replacements
16. Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 43 caps)
17. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 23 caps)
18. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 5 caps)
19. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 16 caps)
20. Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers, 4 caps)
21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 38 caps)
22. Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
23. Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 17 caps)

Id much rather be called a Brit than a Canadian, American or a New Zealander or Australian

Not much of a choice, but what can ye do?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Thomond wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Did anyone else see that BOD was named as BRITAIN's greatest ever player by the New Zealand herald...

Those Aussies always make that mistake

People wonder why there is some animosity between Ireland and Britain at times, it's things like this that play a big part of it like, ignorance and stupidity is something that is hard to eradicate seemingly.



Imagine calling a Canadian, American or a New Zealander an Australian. What a joke.


Never mind anyway, "England is the bestest place eva and we will win every tournament" That worked out well in the summer right Duty?

Imagine if our media tried to claim one of their top athletes. They would probably demand an apology from Enda Kenny on behalf of the state.

Calm down the Brits do it because of poor education. The Aussies cant even find Europe on a map and the Kiwis have been trapped alive in the south seas for the last few hundred years....

Thomond wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Did anyone else see that BOD was named as BRITAIN's greatest ever player by the New Zealand herald...

Those Aussies always make that mistake

People wonder why there is some animosity between Ireland and Britain at times, it's things like this that play a big part of it like, ignorance and stupidity is something that is hard to eradicate seemingly.



Imagine calling a Canadian, American or a New Zealander an Australian. What a joke.


Never mind anyway, "England is the bestest place eva and we will win every tournament" That worked out well in the summer right Duty?

You got me. I fairly concede that England is only the 2nd best football team in Europe.

Gibson wrote:Id much rather be called a Brit than a Canadian, American or a New Zealander or Australian

Not much of a choice, but what can ye do?

But Gibbo, Men never died so we would not be called Canadians........Anyway what's wrong with Canadians

Duty281 wrote:

Thomond wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Did anyone else see that BOD was named as BRITAIN's greatest ever player by the New Zealand herald...

Those Aussies always make that mistake

People wonder why there is some animosity between Ireland and Britain at times, it's things like this that play a big part of it like, ignorance and stupidity is something that is hard to eradicate seemingly.



Imagine calling a Canadian, American or a New Zealander an Australian. What a joke.


Never mind anyway, "England is the bestest place eva and we will win every tournament" That worked out well in the summer right Duty?

You got me. I fairly concede that England is only the 2nd best football team in Europe.

Your patriotism and enthusiasm is quite admirable even if it is a bit insane and somewhat inflammatory at times! Good luck on Sunday sir, should be a good one no matter what happens

Their dress sense.

Canadian police are called mounties, that's my main issue with them........

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Thomond wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Did anyone else see that BOD was named as BRITAIN's greatest ever player by the New Zealand herald...

Those Aussies always make that mistake

People wonder why there is some animosity between Ireland and Britain at times, it's things like this that play a big part of it like, ignorance and stupidity is something that is hard to eradicate seemingly.



Imagine calling a Canadian, American or a New Zealander an Australian. What a joke.


Never mind anyway, "England is the bestest place eva and we will win every tournament" That worked out well in the summer right Duty?

Imagine if our media tried to claim one of their top athletes. They would probably demand an apology from Enda Kenny on behalf of the state.

Truth is, they (the English), wouldnt give a flyin schitt. Its just us Colonials who get our knickers in a twist over miniscule national irrelevancies. The Micks are the wurst at it, go actively in search of default insults.. Well the Welsh are really, but they dont count, not being a country an ting. We need to chill out and grow up as a race. Sure we' re all European(Germans) now anyway.

Gibbo, I'm a Nationalist and very proud of where I'm from, that's not a bad thing. We can get a bit sensitive about it but that is not surprising giving our history with Britian and such atrociites on both sides.

Thomond being proud of Ireland is one thing.

People in NZ won't know our history. They have always (except in 2005) welcomed the "British Lions" to NZ. Its an easy mistake for them.

Their mistake should not be an excuse for animosity between Irish people and British people.

Really warped way of thinking that the mistakes of people in NZ should lead to problems between us and Britian.

Our history is just that. . . .history. In the past. You weren't around and neither were the British people today.

Careful now. Don' t mention The Famine.

I'm very proud of where I'm from too T, but I try not to live off the vagaries of history. Forgive, forget, learn and grow from it I say.

Hard enough to do it though, the basterds.


Fact is, the English and Irish are now the two closet races on the Planet, imo. Always find that, being away from home so long. We click more than any other two races.

Peace agus Lurve.

I have nothing against British people (something that has been misconstrued more than once like) I just don't want to be called something I'm not. I've been called French and American before too, no problem correcting people like this isn't something to do with Britain like I'm just disappointed some guy didn't spend 30 seconds to do his research it's amateur and ridiculous.

What animosity is there? There isn't a lot truth be told and that's great to see, I'm just annoyed to be dubbed as part of Britain. It's a great place of course, but I don't want to be lumped in with mainly as Ireland is it's own place with it's own culture and history.


Gibbo, I haven't really said anything condemnatory reakky though just pointing out that the majority of our island is not part of Britain, Irish people are afraid to talk about history and embrace our own culture ( part of the reason why the language is dying) though, not surprising considering what has happened.



Just so we're clear


Nationalist: Someone with an immense pride and love for thier own country (or in this case the island as a whole)
Republican: Someone who wants a 32 county republic.


I'm a Nationalist, that's not a bad thing.

Some nations generously give and some nobly accept.

Take Jedward for instance...

Lot of truth in what you say mo chara, but we are our own worst enemies. If the Brits hadnt existed, we would have invented them.

Only for them, we'd have no songs, poetry, literature or nice Georgian Squares.

Or X-Factor.

greytiger wrote:Some nations generously give and some nobly accept.

Take Jedward for instance...

As much as I dislike their music, they are actually quite decent role models and do great work around the country to be fair to the two of them.



No doubt Gibbo, a great influence on Irish society (Anglo Irish revival in literature came about because of Britain, a lot of Heaney's poetry deals with issues relating to Ireland and Britain, quite interesting) and indeed the world, there's a lot to love about the country like, and I do like the country despite what some on the forum think.

Anyone see O'Shea's comments about Heaslip and BOD on RTÉ? Talk about undermining the captaincy... Jamie has captained Leinster with Drico in the team so I can't see him getting too worried about being Ireland captain with BOD in the team

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/2013/0208/366860-conor-oshea-airs-captaincy-concerns/

I just think you speak open, honestly and from your heart, T. It opens discussion and exposes misconceptions. If more did it, there would be a lot less shoite in the World.

Gibson wrote:I just think you speak open, honestly and from your heart, T. It opens discussion and exposes misconceptions. If more did it, there would be a lot less shoite in the World.

I think my opinions on Trappatoni, Kidney and ROG have cause more griveances anyway so I don't think it's that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. I'm not hating finished hating Irish people, so hard to hate other countries anyway

So to all you Irish Fans.

Now the team as been announced and it seems all the players are fit and rearing too go. How do feel?

Do you feel confident?

Do you feel Nervous?

Are their some players you would of liked to see get some game time?

And do you honestly think/believe that your team will win on Sunday.

Connor trying to help out Robshaw with subtle tactics there!

Or, more hopefully for you guys, bring down Kidney's regime so he can take Kidney's place? (Hopefully not, knock on wood)

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:Anyone see O'Shea's comments about Heaslip and BOD on RTÉ? Talk about undermining the captaincy... Jamie has captained Leinster with Drico in the team so I can't see him getting too worried about being Ireland captain with BOD in the team

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/2013/0208/366860-conor-oshea-airs-captaincy-concerns/

Dont think he is undermining the Captaincy. Fact is, as long as BOD is on any pitch, he will lead that team by example. It cant be helped. Im sure Jamie is well aware of it. They are mates. Its cool.

The problems will come strongly when BOD retires. We are phhoked without him. We will take a dip when he goes. Its unavoidable now.

I actually admire Deccie for doing it on his watch and not leaving to (hopefully) - his successor. That took balls.

Right decision but wrong Captain, imo. Best or Sexton were the stand-out choices for me. Those 2, more than any other players, have already started to fill that post-BOD gap on the field. Just watch em take responsibility.

What Ireland really need is what England had in 2003. A team of captains. Unbeatable force.

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:Anyone see O'Shea's comments about Heaslip and BOD on RTÉ? Talk about undermining the captaincy... Jamie has captained Leinster with Drico in the team so I can't see him getting too worried about being Ireland captain with BOD in the team

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/2013/0208/366860-conor-oshea-airs-captaincy-concerns/

Well I've said it before, I don't like the decision to make Heaslip captain. I don't think he's international captain material. But so what if O'Driscoll is looked to as the teams spiritual leader while he's still there. It was him who made sure Sexton kicked for touch with seconds to go in the 1st half rather than play down the clock. It earned us an extra 3 points. That made it an 8 point game in the last 5 minutes rather than a 5 point game. Big difference. That was down to BOD, not Heaslip.

But we have to wean ourselves off our BOD dependency sooner or later. It's his last 6 Nations. I would have much preferred to see Rory Best as captain. What a performance from him. Leading by example. And as McCaw and the All Blacks have taught us, being captain means its less likely you'll get carded when your up to no good in the ruck.

majesticimperialman wrote:So to all you Irish Fans.

Now the team as been announced and it seems all the players are fit and rearing too go. How do feel? Good.

Do you feel confident? Yeah

Do you feel Nervous? Yeah

Are their some players you would of liked to see get some game time? Yeah McFadden on the bench in place of Earls. That may lose us the game.

And do you honestly think/believe that your team will win on Sunday.

Yeah.

I'm not sure it was the wrong captain...

Jamie is likely the next Leinster captain when Leo steps down at the end of the season. Rory isn't the Ulster captain, and was never going to get the job as he's not going to be on for 80 minutes every match.

Johnny is a leader but maybe not the leader. Jamie will grow into it, just like Robshaw has for England.

As you always say Gibbo, believe!

I actually find it strange when people in the media or indeed us V2ers try to assess leadership, for me it's not something you can probably evaluate without physically being in the dressing room or on the pitch, it's something I discussed with an American Football analyst recently, and while it is a different sport, they did feel that it was a term thrown about by people even though we can't grasp it fully

I do Ulsterman. I always do.

The Jamie Heaslip I saw today when the team was announced, was a step above that kid who used tweet his life away and make bad decisions on the field. He is learning. He is growing into it and I will back him. Time alone will tell.

Still would much rather Rory had it though. Like BOD, he is our next best and most influential player.

I love Rory. Its man-love. Leave me with it.

Gibbo Sexton should not be given the captaincy. He needs to keep a clear head for his goal kicking.

I do agree with best though.

Oh Gibbo, I know. As a member of the Front Row Union, my heroes in Irish Green have been Wood and Best... We've been lucky over the past decade and a half with our hookers!

Ireland if they are to have any chance V England tomorrow surely must make use of 2 tactics. The first is to use 15 man lineouts so that they can get past the impregnable white defensive wall in front of them, and the second tactic Ireland need to use is the rolling maul which the great NZ team led by Wayne Shelford in 1989 perfected to an art form during their tour of Wales and Ireland.

gboycottnut wrote:Ireland if they are to have any chance V England tomorrow surely must make use of 2 tactics. The first is to use 15 man lineouts so that they can get past the impregnable white defensive wall in front of them, and the second tactic Ireland need to use is the rolling maul which the great NZ team led by Wayne Shelford in 1989 perfected to an art form during their tour of Wales and Ireland.

Or 3 - we could just turn up on Sunday and say nowt.

We could call it Bloodless Sunday.

They stole our spuds and evicted us from our women and shagged our land. I learned all about it in history class. There's no way they're leaving Dublin with the win. It would be an insult to St. Patrick.

Feckless Rogue wrote:They stole our spuds and evicted us from our women and shagged our land. I learned all about it in history class. There's no way they're leaving Dublin with the win. It would be an insult to St. Patrick.

The way they teach history in secondary school is a complete joke. I spend more time learning about fecking plantations and King George the something? Than about actual Irish history.
The way they teach the famine is just comical.

Feckless Rogue wrote:They stole our spuds and evicted us from our women and shagged our land. I learned all about it in history class. There's no way they're leaving Dublin with the win. It would be an insult to St. Patrick.

Feckless,
Behan himself would be proud of you, young Son of Ireland.

Believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz_dHcduUTU

This one is for BOD. England fear BOD. Always does them damage. He's made for games like this. Manu, when he comes on, will get a free lesson.

Believe.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa7birRBmNM

Nice one Gibson, haven't actually seen that gig and enjoyed listening to that wee extract.

Here's one that isn't Irish but I believe holds the sentiment of the way this discussion has turned in last wee while, for better or worse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf1B9ktRCkg

Feckless Rogue wrote:They stole our spuds and evicted us from our women and shagged our land. I learned all about it in history class. There's no way they're leaving Dublin with the win. It would be an insult to St. Patrick.

and damn fine spuds they were. The women however....

Feckless Rogue wrote:They stole our spuds and evicted us from our women and shagged our land. I learned all about it in history class. There's no way they're leaving Dublin with the win. It would be an insult to St. Patrick.

good to see you're not taking a ball sport waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too out of context at all

Breadvan wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:They stole our spuds and evicted us from our women and shagged our land. I learned all about it in history class. There's no way they're leaving Dublin with the win. It would be an insult to St. Patrick.

and damn fine spuds they were. The women however....

Excellent, Van.

Speaking of Van...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RHTb-WE4zo

Weather forecast for Sunday is = cold, rain and high winds. It has all the hallmarks of a slugfest

Breadvan wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:They stole our spuds and evicted us from our women and shagged our land. I learned all about it in history class. There's no way they're leaving Dublin with the win. It would be an insult to St. Patrick.

and damn fine spuds they were. The women however....

What about the women?...

Gibson wrote:This one is for BOD. England fear BOD. Always does them damage. He's made for games like this. Manu, when he comes on, will get a free lesson.

Believe.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa7birRBmNM

I normally hate this sort of stuff, but after a couple of pints...that's actually quite beautiful.

Gibson wrote:This one is for BOD. England fear BOD. Always does them damage. He's made for games like this. Manu, when he comes on, will get a free lesson.

Believe.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa7birRBmNM

Not any more, mate. This is a new England: Mentally tough, strong willed, iron to the core. Fear nothing and no one. Each one ('cepting Flood) a candidate to be the next Superman. And all looking real good in white.

Buggeration on your BOD and his little girly voice (though he does know a thing or two about Rugby). Your new captain, Heaslip, seems to have given himself a Danny Care haircut. Any greater sign of impending doom for Ireland than that?

Believe in this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzqiPvGrkTo

doctor_grey wrote:

Gibson wrote:This one is for BOD. England fear BOD. Always does them damage. He's made for games like this. Manu, when he comes on, will get a free lesson.

Believe.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa7birRBmNM

Not any more, mate. This is a new England: Mentally tough, strong willed, iron to the core. Fear nothing and no one. Each one ('cepting Flood) a candidate to be the next Superman. And all looking real good in white.

Buggeration on your BOD and his little girly voice (though he does know a thing or two about Rugby). Your new captain, Heaslip, seems to have given himself a Danny Care haircut. Any greater sign of impending doom for Ireland than that?

Believe in this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzqiPvGrkTo

Love the fighting spirit. This is the match of the round thats for sure.

Irish fans who are worried about the frailty of Ross from the last England meeting, should watch the attached. Court got the blame but Healy and Best don't exactly come out shining either....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXmC_fku15Y

Jerome Garces is a pretty flaky ref, so that may even things out.....

Hi English people, let me be frank, Im impressed. Im impressed by this England teams quiet confidence and humility. Something special is bubbling under and you all know it. SL really is a smart operator and Robshaw in my opinion despite the AI is a good leader. England actually for the first time in long time have a team...


... youre still gonna lose though. Enjoy the match gents.

By the way did you know that your young centre 36s surname is actually Fentiman and not 36. 36 is him mums surname but his crafty dad took his mum Beverlys surname when he set up his tree surgery business. Crafty divil!

GunsGerms wrote:By the way did you know that your young centre 36s surname is actually Fentiman and not 36. 36 is him mums surname but his crafty dad took his mum Beverlys surname when he set up his tree surgery business. Crafty divil!

It sort of has been all over the papers and stuff - so it may just have occurred to a few people. But his surname is not Fentiman its 36. It just could have been Fentiman.

Fantastic interview with Farrell senior in the English Indy today by the way. Its convinced me hes the right guy to have around

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/exclusive-interview-andy-farrell-shows-the-true-mark-of-the-warrior-8488010.html

red_stag wrote:Thomond being proud of Ireland is one thing.

People in NZ won't know our history. They have always (except in 2005) welcomed the "British Lions" to NZ. Its an easy mistake for them.

Their mistake should not be an excuse for animosity between Irish people and British people.

Really warped way of thinking that the mistakes of people in NZ should lead to problems between us and Britian.

Our history is just that. . . .history. In the past. You weren't around and neither were the British people today.

+1

GunsGerms wrote:Hi English people, let me be frank, Im impressed. Im impressed by this England teams quiet confidence and humility. Something special is bubbling under and you all know it. SL really is a smart operator and Robshaw in my opinion despite the AI is a good leader. England actually for the first time in long time have a team...


... youre still gonna lose though. Enjoy the match gents.

Can't wait to see how it goes. To be honest, and I'll probably regret saying this, I think England just about have enough to edge it..