Wales changes for Italy

First topic message reminder :

Are Wales a 2nd half team or are the replacements better players?

I would pick

15. Leigh Halfpenny
14. Alex Cuthbert
13. Jon Davies
12. James Hook (Roberts isn't doing much and he missed tackles)
11. George North
10. Dan Biggar
9. Mike Phillips

8. Toby Faletau
7. Justin Tipuric
6. Ryan Jones
5. Ian Evans
4. Alun-wyn Jones (back from injury)
3. Adam Jones
2. Richard Hibbard
1. Paul James (no brainer)

16. Gethin Jenkins
17. Ken Owens
18. Craig Mitchell
19. Sam Warburton
20. Lloyd Williams
21. Jamie Roberts
22. Lee Byrne

And why would he name his team before seeing AWJ play again? I don't understand the benefit of naming the team 11 days early?

Of the starting 15, I think only Gethin and Mike P will go back to their clubs in France. Hook will probably make the bench again, and will probably play for Perp this weekend too. All the others in the starting 15 will remain in camp, but the others will be released to their clubs/regions. Byrne will play this weekend in France too, but I suspect that was always going to be the case!

"I don't understand the benefit of naming the team 11 days early?" -- It might backfire. Perhaps it's always best to keep players on their toes until selection is made, or maybe Howley thinks a vote of confidence for the team that started is a good thing, which will enable them to settle and prepare well for the next game. It also helps Italy to know who the start team is!

I thought you guys wanted him to keep the same team... All the calls for Howley to show some balls and not reinstate Warburton. Now that he has done what you wish you are whinging that he has done it...?

I don't get it...? You should just state that you don't like Howley and forget this ruse that all that is wrong is his fault all the time...

You are running out of scape goats.

It isn't the first time we have named a team this early for an Italian game. Gatland has done it before. Realistically Italy probably know what we were going to do anyway, so no big deal.

Well the team announcement has kinda killed the debate in this thread...

I wonder if the author (1000advancedprototype) might wish to change the title to the Match Build Up thread or such like?

Its not just killed the debate IMO it will have a -ve impact on the training paddock for 2 weeks with players knowing they are in and more importantly others knowing they are out. He should have kept this to himself. He's such an immature coach

RBS 6 NATIONS SQUAD UPDATE

Wales have released 15 players back to their regions and clubs ahead of their respective matches this weekend.

Eight players will head back to their Welsh regions with Josh Turnbull and Liam Williams returning to the Scarlets and Alun Wyn Jones and James King released back to the Ospreys.

The quartet of Scott Andrews, Lou Reed, Josh Navidi and Andries Pretorius return to the Blues.

As per IRB regulations, Paul James (Bath), Craig Mitchell (Exeter Chiefs) and Olly Kohn (Harlequins) have been released back to their clubs as have Gethin Jenkins (Toulon), Mike Phillips (Bayonne), Lee Byrne (Clermont Auvergne) and James Hook (Perpignan).

The players will return back to the Wales RBS 6 Nations squad on Monday, 18 February.

...that should spark it up again...

Glas - thats a bit of a kick in the cods, I was hoping that Shingler and Scott would be released too, if only to make sure they have game time.

Looking at the released players I guess you can hazard a guess at who is going to be on the bench (or the travelling reserves).

Yes, except for AWJ, I think they want him to get up to speed and match fit by playing.

At least I blydi hope so!

Glas - it looks like AWJ is being given game time, and the rest are being igven their marching orders.

Aye, seems as much.

Considering we were selecting very small squads until last RWC. Reducing the squad to its barebones can't hurt.

It's a high risk strategy from Rob.

What if one of the 'chosen' doesn't 'go well in training'????

He'll have a right old dimella.

He'll be given talent specific training i.e. something he's good at e.g. not passing" for the centres...

As well as Coombs has played, he is still a backrow forward playing lock. I think he should be challenging Ryan and Lydiate for the 6 position and he has certainly overtaken Shingler in the pecking order. I would like to see lock specialist Kohn given a start (has his hamstring recovered?) We were gifted a highly rated, massive lock at the top of his game in a successful club team and we appear to have overlooked him.
Our scrum looked poor against France. Was it simply an off day for Adam, the turf, or a lock with very little experience at scrummaging as a second row? If the latter Kohn would cure that problem. If Kohn is not deemed good enough, why not start with AWJ and have Coombs on the bench? We can't afford to hand out so many penalties against the Italians.

Also has anyone noticed the way Shingler leans over in the lineout? (In our house we call it Shingler's list!)

I think Coombs has been the find of the tournament for Wales, his back row style, carrying and tackling has put him up there with Davies and Charteris. Even when they come back he will be in the mix in the mould of Ryan Jones as a utility 4, 5 and 6

As for Howley's decision to preclude press speculation and make an early team selection benching Warburton as a Capt and first choice 7 , I applaud it as a smart and balls out move.

100%beefy wrote:I think Coombs has been the find of the tournament for Wales, his back row style, carrying and tackling has put him up there with Davies and Charteris. Even when they come back he will be in the mix in the mould of Ryan Jones as a utility 4, 5 and 6

As for Howley's decision to preclude press speculation and make an early team selection benching Warburton as a Capt and first choice 7 , I applaud it as a smart and balls out move.

+1000000000

100%beefy wrote:I think Coombs has been the find of the tournament for Wales, his back row style, carrying and tackling has put him up there with Davies and Charteris. Even when they come back he will be in the mix in the mould of Ryan Jones as a utility 4, 5 and 6

As for Howley's decision to preclude press speculation and make an early team selection benching Warburton as a Capt and first choice 7 , I applaud it as a smart and balls out move.

+10000000

Ospreydragon wrote:"I don't understand the benefit of naming the team 11 days early?" -- It might backfire. Perhaps it's always best to keep players on their toes until selection is made, or maybe Howley thinks a vote of confidence for the team that started is a good thing, which will enable them to settle and prepare well for the next game. It also helps Italy to know who the start team is!

I agree and also think that while we won and were thankful to do so, it wasn't great was it. Is winning really a reason for not trying to inprove the balance and effectiveness of the team. Howley just does things by numbers, he has read somewhere that you don't change a winning team and he thinks that is a rule. He really is a intellectual midget who lacks the imagination and management skills to be even average at this level.

It may not mean we lose but surely we need to grow stronger

I cant see the harm in naming the team early, we all know there would have been huge media coverage as the days went on will he wont he pick Warbuton.

I also think Howler (and most know I dont' rate him) has done right by not bringing AWJ and Warburton straight back in, I would however swapped James for Jenkins.

bedfordwelsh wrote:
I also think Howler (and most know I dont' rate him) has done right by not bringing AWJ and Warburton straight back in, I would however swapped James for Jenkins.

that would be a touch unfair. I thought Jenkins was superb in Paris fully warranted the faith showed in him post Ireland match.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I cant see the harm in naming the team early, we all know there would have been huge media coverage as the days went on will he wont he pick Warbuton.

I also think Howler (and most know I dont' rate him) has done right by not bringing AWJ and Warburton straight back in, I would however swapped James for Jenkins.

I agree, although I think Gethin is improving and should play - hopefully he will play himself into top form for Scotland/England (when he is a lot better than James)

Devils advocate......


I wonder how many players will get hurt in training before the match? Forcing Howley to change the team.

IAOB

Ifandorbut wrote:Devils advocate......


I wonder how many players will get hurt in training before the match? Forcing Howley to change the team.

IAOB

Lets hope none do. We have had enough injuries to date.

A Wales team at strength and with confidence will win against Italy even in Italy. However, are Wales up to strength, and do they have the confidence having broken their losing streak?
What do the Welsh fans think?

I think they have to prove Paris was not a blip. We could have an excellent bench and a genuine selection based on merit for Edinburgh. I'm looking forward to a game which is very hard to call. The 6N goes from strength to strength.

.

Glas a du wrote:I think they have to prove Paris was not a blip. We could have an excellent bench and a genuine selection based on merit for Edinburgh. I'm looking forward to a game which is very hard to call. The 6N goes from strength to strength.

Aye

We knew from the off that our squad was to improve throughout the tournament.

I feel optimistic about Welsh rugby for the first time in a year.....we have weathered a terribel storm of losses and injury with an epic win in France, with Scotland and Italy to play we ought to expect to welcome England to Cardiff with 3 wins for a major showdown a la 1999.

We have also found some passion - Roberts emotions were great to see- and blooded some new boys, Coombs being notably the best and Tipuric has justified his selection. Jones R continues to grow in stature and frankly i think he should remain Capt for the duration of the 6 Nations.

There is a very long way to go, and Scotland and Italy will be no pushovers but beating France in Paris is about as good as it could get for us off the back of the bum horribilis we just had.

majesticimperialman wrote:Never thought that i would say this but Gethin Jenkins had a fairly good game today.

Never thought anyone would say this and be wrong

dragonbreath wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Never thought that i would say this but Gethin Jenkins had a fairly good game today.

Never thought anyone would say this and be wrong

Exactly.

He has had the first period of underperformance in his entire career. Certainly looks to be getting back to his best.

Incidentally, three Welsh squad members were in action over the weekend in France.

Lee Byrne scored a try in the Clermont demolition of Mont de Marsan. Hook kicked some points in Perpignan's first away win over Toulouse in 31 years. Mike Phillips came on as sub in the Bayonne loss to Racing Metro.

Haven't seen any reports on these games. Did any one catch any of them?

Italy coach Jacques Brunel named veteran flank Mauro Bergamasco in his 31-man squad for the upcoming Six Nations clash against Wales at Rome's Olympic Stadium.

Bergamasco was left out of Italy's opening two Six Nations matches, a victory over France and then a defeat away to Scotland, but has been called up mainly as cover for captain Sergio Parisse.

Parisse is facing a possible ban for the February 23 date against Wales after he insulted the referee and was sent off while playing for Stade Francais at the weekend.

Bergamasco has appeared 93 times for Italy since making his debut in 1998.

His brother and fellow international Mirco, is currently sidelined with injury.

Italy beat France 23-18 in Rome two weeks ago before succumbing to a 34-10 to Scotland at Murrayfield last week.

samuraidragon wrote:Incidentally, three Welsh squad members were in action over the weekend in France.

Lee Byrne scored a try in the Clermont demolition of Mont de Marsan. Hook kicked some points in Perpignan's first away win over Toulouse in 31 years. Mike Phillips came on as sub in the Bayonne loss to Racing Metro.

Haven't seen any reports on these games. Did any one catch any of them?

The Hook situation continues to frustrate. Orchestrating historic victories and kicking high pressure conversions to win games in some euro league is all well and good, but it doesn't prepare him for the important role of utility sub for Wales in the 6N.

The WRU need to get a grip of this situation. Splash the cash and get him back here bench-warming for the Dragons in the Rabo.

samuraidragon wrote:Incidentally, three Welsh squad members were in action over the weekend in France.

Lee Byrne scored a try in the Clermont demolition of Mont de Marsan. Hook kicked some points in Perpignan's first away win over Toulouse in 31 years. Mike Phillips came on as sub in the Bayonne loss to Racing Metro.

Haven't seen any reports on these games. Did any one catch any of them?

I saw a few highlights. Im in italy they don't do great coverage.

From BBC


Sam Warburton has praised interim Wales coach Rob Howley's decision to name his team a week early for Saturday's Six Nations clash against Italy.

Warburton, captain when Wales reached the 2011 World Cup semi-finals and won the Grand Slam in 2012, is expected to be a replacement in Rome.
He missed the 16-6 victory over France because of a shoulder injury.

Sam Warburton
Age: 24
Debut: v USA, 2009
Caps: 35
Captain: 20 times

Wins as captain: Eight

"It was good when they announced the team early because it has given us extra time to prepare," said Warburton.

"It was quite a smart call and we might as well take advantage of this two-week break in Six Nations games. We have had eight or 10 sessions, rather than maybe three, perhaps.

"It should be one of the best-prepared we have been for a match because we have had that extra time together."

Howley named an unchanged starting line-up that included Ryan Jones continuing as skipper 72 hours after the win in Paris.

Ospreys flanker Justin Tipuric replaced Warburton at open-side flanker and he retains his place in the Wales side for the trip to Italy.

Warburton, who was red-hot favourite to be in the British and Irish Lions tour party to Australia before this tournament, is now relegated to fighting for a place on the Wales bench which is expected to be named on Tuesday. The 24-year-old, who has won 35 Wales caps, admits he has banned talk of the Lions.

“You are never going to have a 10 or 12-year career when you are just constantly on the way up.

"I have got enough on my plate at the moment," said Warburton .

"It [Lions selection] is going to be, for any player involved, a special moment. But no-one is mentioning the 'L word'.

"The focus in this Six Nations camp is purely on the next match, and if there was any talk on that, players would be the first ones to give someone a slap in the face."

While the Cardiff Blues flanker has lost the Wales captaincy and his place in the side, he does not believe he has lost form or has struggled with leading the side.
"I have been looking at my games and things and I don't think there are any obvious mistakes," said Warburton.

"If I was slipping off tackles and getting smashed about in the contact area and that, I would be concerned.

"I said to my parents the other day that when things are plain-sailing, Wales are doing well and you get a lot of positive press it's happy days, but you are never going to have a 10 or 12-year career when you are just constantly on the way up.

"Things and blips do happen, and I knew that would happen before maybe people start questioning your form or whatever, but you have got to completely ignore it."

This made me laugh:

Wales coach Rob Howley named his starting team a week earlier than usual. Good move?

I was surprised. I have never known them to do it outwardly. Sometimes within camp you know fairly well in advance you are going to play, but to come out and announce it publicly is new. It is a bold move but I like it. A lot of coaches worry about the opposition being able to analyse players and systems but for me it is a statement to Italy: 'You know what is coming - deal with it.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21471610

Everyone we play know what's coming, regardless of the side we pick.

As most might have guessed by now I am not Howlers greatest fan but I actually liked what he done this week by naming his side early.

If he hadn't we all know the Western Fail would have been printing any old rubbish about the Tipuric Warburton choice etc etc.

I also think he got it right by not changing the starting line up, well Jenkins aside.

Agreed LP - it's not like Wales are going to completely recast their crash - bang - wallop style of rugby in two weeks, regardless of who is picked.

Still, I've no issue with naming the side early if it allows the players to better focus on the job in hand.

I also liked Warburton's press statement above. He's a level-headed chap and he's quite right. He's not exactly playing badly, he's just not performing as well as he was last year (he's not alone in that camp Mr Jonathan Davies II). His misfortune is that there's a very able deputy for him in Justin Tipuric and Howley has rightly gone with the form man.

Handy that Parisse is out. I think Wales will win this one and get right back into the tournament.

This could do down to the last match against England - that would be worth watching!

[quote="Luckless Pedestrian"]This made me laugh:

Wales coach Rob Howley named his starting team a week earlier than usual. Good move?

it is a statement to Italy: 'You know what is coming - deal with it.'

Well 8 out of 9 dealt with it quite easiy Rob

bedfordwelsh wrote:As most might have guessed by now I am not Howlers greatest fan but I actually liked what he done this week by naming his side early.

If he hadn't we all know the Western Fail would have been printing any old rubbish about the Tipuric Warburton choice etc etc.

I also think he got it right by not changing the starting line up, well Jenkins aside.

I agree, naming the team early was the right decision.

Forwards wise I think its one of the strongest benches we have been able to put out for sometime.

that side is starting to look pretty strong with outstanding impact off the bench, the only way you could improve it for me is to have a fit AWJ/Charteirs at lock and Lydiate at 6 with Ryan benched but otherwise I am quietly optimistic that we should beat Italy and Scotland then either be out to spoil the party or going for the championship as I am predicting France to beat England and Ireland.
If we are even competing for a possible success by the England game I would say we have turned the corner, yet again, however unless this translates to success in the Autumn then you can kiss any chance at RWC 2015 farewell. Consistency is what I want, we have had consistent carpness, now we need hard fought wins at all costs.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Forwards wise I think its one of the strongest benches we have been able to put out for sometime.

It needs to be to carry two props

The benched forwards do look very strong, although, I would say that Matthew Rees should be on the bench over Owens. I haven't really been impressed by any of the Welsh hookers for ages, not since Rees got injured before the WC.

James, Mitchell, AWJ and Warburton are all capable of performing as well, if not better, than the starting pack.

606,

I think Rees was definately made the scapegoat for the Ireland defeat and I am a fan of his but again Owens is playing well.

No player can go on forever. He is not the player he was. Hibbard is on fire and Owens makes more yards.

Glas a du wrote:No player can go on forever. He is not the player he was. Hibbard is on fire and Owens makes more yards.

Glas,

When he came on against Ireland our line out was worse and I guess he had more of the ball because Wales in general did, just seems to go from starter to not even on bench seems harsh and he was the only one to do that (Warburtons injury aside). He certainly wasn't he only bad player that first half.

Owens came on against Ireland and threw 2 bad line-outs in the last 10 minutes in crucial positions. If he has got the right we might well have ended on 4 tries and had a chance to steal the game at the end.