The Scotland Post-Match Incredulity Thread - Daylight robbery

[TJ1]

[welshboii15]

Comes down to cutting edge and Ireland didn't take their chances

[NeilyBroon]

I'm still in a mild state of shock to be honest. That was definitely Ireland's game to lose!

[George Carlin]

I'll go first:



I don't recall a game as lopsided as that, ever.

1. Thoughts on individual performances?

2. Thoughts on where this leaves Scott Johnson now?

[welshboii15]

Yes shock, did I see it coming yes Scotland are on the up

[NeilyBroon]

Individual performances very mixed for Scotland, but must improve. I'd even say put Weir in starting XV and Jackson to bench. Meatball really brought some urgency to the Scotland side.

Visser needs a tackle class still and Lamont needs to work on his positioning.

My suggested changes next week:

Dunbar to inside centre and Scott to outside (or vice versa) and Shlong to bench replacing Evans
Weir for Jackson, but that one's a bit closer, just Jackson's kicking game today wasn't so hot.
Barclay to the bench. David Denton just doesn't cut the mustard at the moment, and we need a second disruptive influence for Wales.

Perhaps Cross off Murray on but I think he did a great job today. I guess it depends on the Welsh pack size (pretty big if I remember rightly).

We need a far better performance than that because if we play like that it'll be a nightmare next week! Well done Scotland for gritting it out but my God don't ever pull that kind of stunt again!

[TJ1]

Scotland have won games without the ball and position before but never anything as much as that I think. Unreal. Ireland should have had more tries tho.

1) Individuals? Kellybrows for his 15 tackles
Laidlaw for directing operations, Weir for adding an extra bit of impetus and making more yards than anyone else

2) Doing well. I am still awaiting convincing but he appears to have made good decisions so far. On Rhubarb - he only got the ball 6 times so harsh to judge him on this game.

[Biltong]

Didn't see the game as I was watching the Proteas knock off Pakistan for a 3-0 test series win, but congratualtions to Scotland, comisserations to Ireland.

[George Carlin]

I've asked the mods to merge our 2 threads, TJ.

[majesticimperialman]

I'm still in a mild state of shock to be honest. That was definitely Ireland's game to lose!

You and me both. I never thought that Ireland would lose that game. I have just said on another thread, that i did expect Scotland to make a good game of it, But never did i think they would win it.

But Well played Scotland. A W ell deserved win.

[123456789]

I thought it was a poor performance but it was full of guts, aggression and determination that was lacking against England, if we can combine the defence against Ireland and the Italy attack. Obviously there is a massive difference in quality between the sides but it was a great result.
I thought Weir was superb today, he changed the game. Jackson was banging against a brick wall and seems unable to change his game plan. When he plays well and the game suits him he is effective but Weir offers more flexibility.
Scott Johnson is clearly helping but I think whether or not he stays should depend on Dean Ryan, if they can convince him to stay I'd like them to keep this coaching team because it seems to be working.
I think that depending on the Wales result I think we could be looking at a Lions team made up of mainly English and Scottish players. Hamilton has pushed his way into the mix with this game but we also need to keep grounded Italy were poor and Ireland were a massively understrength side but the matches were won and at the end there were no stupid penalties conceded which we would have seen in the past.

[Norfolklass]

Great victory guys. Enjoy.

[100%beefy]

I'll go first:



I don't recall a game as lopsided as that, ever.

1. Thoughts on individual performances?

2. Thoughts on where this leaves Scott Johnson now?

2 things...there seemed a warrior spirit today that I don't think Robinson could ever have out out of his boys, Johnson is renowned for his heart and was very popular with Wales. Whiel i didn't think his skills agenda came to fruition today Scotland, posied to seize defeat from the jaws of victory like in 2010 v Wales, held firm and showed immense character...I think Johnson is key to that.

Secondly, Johnson knows Wales of old and will know their psyche, he will be creaming himself to get one over on the Welsh and with a performance like that it is on...though don't get too excited Scotland, Ireland were fooking awful

[MacKnocked-on]

To me Jackson simply hasn't got a good enough kicking game for this level, some of his sliced clearances really put us under pressure. I'd go with Weir now and Heathcote deserves a chance from the bench.

[TJ1]

Jackson had the ball 6 times, 3 kicks, one pass 2 runs from espn scrum. You can't really judge him on that. I would still start Weir tho.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Staggering win. I'll lurk today and post a big response on here tomorrow. In the mean time...

[sensisball]

Weir made a huge difference. Yes its often easier to make an impact off the bench. However it wasnt simply his attacking play, defensively he was superb, not something that can be said of Jacko today. The length of his kicks also kept us out of our 22 effectively for much of the last 20 minutes.

After a great game for the Warriors against the Dragons he looks near his best and i would like to see him and Dunbar start against Wales. Lamont keeps getting caught out of position and Visser's defence is non existent at times. I dont fancy the flying dutchman against the Welsh back three, or their centres.

I would like to see a midfield Scott and Dunbar outside Laidlaw and Weir. This would give us a much better kicking game, improved defence and ability to actually pass the ball to the back three! (of Lamont, Hogg and Maitland)

[RDW]

Threads merged

[TJ1]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and Visser's defence is non existent at times. I dont fancy the flying dutchman against the Welsh back three, or their centres.

,,,,,,,,,,,,

9 tackles today - none missed. don't think they got thru, round or past him all game. He is not as bad as some make out - he has made some howlers tho - but not in this game.

[MacKnocked-on]

I thought Visser looked fairly safe in defence today, the defensive problems were in the centres. Personally don't think Scott has enough pace for 13, not sure if Dunbar is faster than him but think it may be between them for the 12 shirt with other options at 13.

[welshboii15]

I just think Scotland are just showing the signs their contenders, finally got a good set of coaches, and very talented players coming into the side. And every one knows the signs of a good team are when their on the back foot all game but still find a way to win

[Duty281]

Well done Scotland.

Scotland certainly gave Ireland a lesson in perseverance - I can't remember a more one-sided half! Difference between the two sides, Scotland took their chances and Ireland didn't. Next week v Wales should be a cracker!

[RDW]

Unbelievable win!!! Can't remember as one sides a half as that first one - it was also fairly dreadful. I said at the time that Ireland would probably regret not kicking their goals by kicking to the corner, and so it turned out. Think it's fair to say if Sexton was playing they would have won that, but he wasn't - so who cares!!!

Anyway my player ratings

1 Grant - 8

Huge game in the scrum - him and Jenkins front runners for the lions

2 Ford - 6

Went off early, assuming injured. Did OK up to then

3 Cross - 8

Huge performance by him - mighty in the scrum and some big hits. Deserves to keep his place.

4 Gray - 8

He's not making the same eye catching breaks we're used to but puts in a massive shift. Cementing his place in the Lions squad IMO

5 Hamilton - 9

Best game in a Scotland shirt - massive effort in the lineout and was the 'C-bomb' to the Irish that he said he was going to be.

6 Harley - 7

Quieter game than last time but put in a massive shift. 3 from 3 with Scotland - he must think it is easy!

7 Brown - 9

One of the players of the tournament so far - herculean shift from an inspirational captain. He faces incredible competition for the Lions but wouldn't let anyone down if picked.

8 Beattie - 7

Another quiet game but again put in a massive shift

9 Laidlaw - 8

Some dodgy up and unders but bossed the pack fantastically well and his kicking won us the game

10 Jackson - 4

Shocking display. I know people said he only touched the ball 6 times or something he did something bad 4 of them. Should lose his place to Weir, who made a massive difference.

11 Visser - 6

Not a game for a winger! Barely touched the ball but - shock horror - put in a big defencive shift

12 Scott - 6

Strong carries and some big hits but at fault for a couple of their line breaks

13 Lamont - 6

See Matt Scott!

14 Maitland - 7

Like Visser had no chance to shine, but great in defence and had some fantastic kick chases. So glad he plays for us now!

15 Hogg - 6

Quiet game but again solid. Huge booming kick in the 2nd half that should have been a lineout in their 22, but the bloody touch judge said it went out in mid air. I was in line with the touchline - it most certainly did not!


Positives

We won!!!!
Incredible defence in the 2nd half
Scrum was surprisingly good
Strong set piece
Weir made a good impression when he came on

Negatives

Far too many tackles in open play in the first half - we made the Irish look world class with our terrible defending!

We won't win every game lwith only 20% possession - we need to get more ball

Didn't look like scoring a try really.


But who cars - we won!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Imperialbigdave]

Yeah I dont get the criticisms of Vissers defence today either, he was solid.

I think Dunbar should come in at 13, but the number on the back doesnt have to dictate everything he does. Being the stronger defender and having far more experience (remember Scott was a skinny wee fly half up until 18 months ago), id have him defend the 13 channel, but the two can mix it up in attack and interchange positions. Scott running support on Dunbars lines could be devistating.

I thought Cross silenced his critics today, and vindicated his selection ahead of Low. Brilliant set piece performance from him.

The pack as a whole were very good defensively, but thats three games now where their ball winning ability has seriously come into question. Its a tough call to change a winning team, but we really are missing Rennie/Barclay.

Laidlaw just strikes me as unflappable. He is the orchestrator in this team. I think the team as a whole kicked too much, but his box kicks were very good. Not just hoof it as hard and as high as possible, but putting in smart dinks over the top that Mailtand and Visser could chase.

The centres didnt have as good a game as last week, but when youre up against a team getting as much quick ball as Ireland did, while containing one legend and the irish Mark Bennett, there were inevitably going to be some shaky moments. To keep Odriscoll quiet despite playing in a backline that was being moved well by the flyhalf is commendable.

Ecstatic when the final whistle blew, but there are some big issues to be addressed.

[123456789]

I'll go first:



I don't recall a game as lopsided as that, ever.

1. Thoughts on individual performances?

2. Thoughts on where this leaves Scott Johnson now?

2 things...there seemed a warrior spirit today that I don't think Robinson could ever have out out of his boys, Johnson is renowned for his heart and was very popular with Wales. Whiel i didn't think his skills agenda came to fruition today Scotland, posied to seize defeat from the jaws of victory like in 2010 v Wales, held firm and showed immense character...I think Johnson is key to that.

Secondly, Johnson knows Wales of old and will know their psyche, he will be creaming himself to get one over on the Welsh and with a performance like that it is on...though don't get too excited Scotland, Ireland were fooking awful

I think that's unfair remember Australia 2009 and 2012, South Africa 2010 and Ireland 2010

[Cryptoyourisan]

Agreed on Dunbar's inclusion - although I think him on the bench in place of Evans makes much more sense to begin with.

[MacKnocked-on]

We've simply got to get more ball, therefore should pick Barclay against Wales and move Brown back to 6, tough on Harley I know but we need to contest the breakdown. We could possibly still select both Harley and Denton on the bench depending on the adaptability of other players.
It's good to have real selection decisions for once.

[TJ1]

Its not one or two players not contesting the breakdown - its everyone just about. Too often there would be a hint of a turnover after a good tackle but the following up player did not contest the ruck. Been taking lessons from the ruck inspector I think

[George Carlin]

Our lack of control at recycling in the first half was terrifying.

Guscott was not overstating this - we were getting mullered.

The really pleasing thing was that we found a way to stay in touch and claw ourselves back into it. That's what professional teams do.

Wales will be another step up again (the fact remains that if Ireland had all their starters, I cannot see us having won that match) but we cannot be much worse in a lot of respects that that. In a bizarre way, that's a comfort.

We desperately need a fetcher though. The Killer Bs could be together again for the next game.

[Guest]

Wayne Barnes lost control in my eyes, at least six yellow card offences in the Scottish 22 but he just kept warning them, i felt pretty sorry for the Irish the Scottish just payed a negative illegal game at the break down and the ref just let them.

[TJ1]

Wayne Barnes lost control in my eyes, at least six yellow card offences in the Scottish 22 but he just kept warning them, i felt pretty sorry for the Irish the Scottish just payed a negative illegal game at the break down and the ref just let them.

Nonsense. scots just gave them the breakdown. Ireland creted the chances but blew them. 6 yellows? Dinnae be daft laddie

[IanBru]

Agreed on Dunbar's inclusion - although I think him on the bench in place of Evans makes much more sense to begin with.

Agreed - ease him in. We're not so hard-up with the current centre pairing that we have to dump Dunbar in at the deep end.

I think he and Bennett have developed a useful partnership for Glasgow in a very short space of time (the lack of such a partnership has, in my opinion, been the biggest problem for Glasgow thus far), and could be a long-term solution for Scotland if left to mature for a season or two.

If Bennett is 'the Messiah', surely Dunbar is 'The Baptist'?

[IanBru]

As has been said, I still don't know how we won that game.

Considering some of the results in recent years (Wales in 2010, Argentina at RWC 2011, England in 2012), it's lovely to have stolen a game that someone else deserved to win.

If there is such a thing as karma, we're in for some rich pickings from now on!

[Cryptoyourisan]

I don't agree that there were six yellows but Barnes, whose refereeing I am normal a fan of, was terrible today. To say he basically gave Scotland the game is slightly misleading; I don't think he made the right call to give scrum advantage to Ireland after half of their mauls.

[100%beefy]

I don't agree that there were six yellows but Barnes, whose refereeing I am normal a fan of, was terrible today. To say he basically gave Scotland the game is slightly misleading; I don't think he made the right call to give scrum advantage to Ireland after half of their mauls.

I would love a comparison of other refs penalty counts v Barnes, the guy ruins the game because he wants to have his own impact on it.

[TJ1]

I did think he was whistle happy but no major blunders bar the harsh yellow - but made up for that by not yellowing for the tackle in the air

[RuggerRadge2611]

The breakdown was a shambles and both sides were guilty of some plays that ranged from skullduggery to downright cheating. It's surprising that more players from either side didn't end up in the bin.

But with the possession stats arrayed against us I want to coin the phrase "The Miracle at Murrayfield" before the press get there.

[Imperialbigdave]

just reading some of the pre and post match threads on munsterfans.com.

Hilarious reading. Before the match, Scotland are the worst side in the history of rugby ever. They are a disgrace and Ireland should be putting 20 points past them without fail.

After the match, Scotland are still the worst side in history ever.

[Cryptoyourisan]

just reading some of the pre and post match threads on munsterfans.com.

Hilarious reading. Before the match, Scotland are the worst side in the history of rugby ever. They are a disgrace and Ireland should be putting 20 points past them without fail.

After the match, Scotland are still the worst side in history ever.

O'Gara costing them the game and getting a good-and-proper humping off of Treviso probably won't liven their mood...

[LordDowlais]

Fair play to the Jocks, your scrum demolished Ireland today and you had man sausage of the walk in the line outs. Your defence was superb and Kelly Brown's broken nose throughout the second half just sums it all up, but, beware, you will not have it this way against us (Wales) next time up, if you allow the likes of John Davis, George North, Alex Cuthbert and Jamie Roberts that much posession we will punish you, and Halfpenny will take his chances in front of the posts, also I do not think you will march our scrum backwards like you did to Ireland today.But you can never under estimate the confidence this will give you. All in all, I cannot wait for the game in a fortnight's time.

[LordDowlais]

I cannot belive I have had a word check for the use of the shortened term of a cockeril.

[Pot Hale]

Congrats Scotland. A deserved win because they got the points.

Un-fooken-believeable from Ireland. Inept doesn't come close.

[Tramptastic]

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and say I won't to save Dunbar for the summer tour to South Africa... orrrr stick him on the bench instead of Evans but I don't think he should start yet. Not because he's playing badly - he's not he's playing fantastically - but because you don't change a winning team unless injury of religion forces you to!

Otherwise was at the game behind the posts for the last play and I was almost in tears when ireland won that penalty! But fantastic pressure from Scotland to win that, so happy for the lads!

[Notch]

Sometimes you deserve to win because you dominate. Sometimes you deserve to win because your opponents thoroughly deserve not to win. No complaints about that result here!

Where the concern is is conceding those three clean linebreaks in midfield today. That should have been three tries, except Ireland were the proverbial blind man in a brothel today. Jeeeez.

Well done Scotland. You were quite simply more able to convert scoring opportunities into points.

[welshboii15]

It was a scrappy game if Ireland took their chances they would have won but I also think the ref made a big call by not Carding the Scotland 6 for taking the player out in the air and I think that could have made a massive change in the game but he didn't get carded so well done Scotland good win and well done on taking your chances because that's what it comes down to when the 80mins are up

[Sugarlump]

Australia proved it with the '99 world cup and England and Scotland have backed it up again that having an excellent, tireless defence and being able to grab opportunities when they come can win it for you.

Really enjoyed the match in a head-spinning kinda way. The way you guys got back into contention and into the lead and then almost lost again at the end almost lost me control of my bowel! Bravo!!

[RubyGuby]

I'm not buying this robbery bullshoite Scotland controlled the 2nd half and partcularly the last 30 mins

[cakeordeath]

I agree with Ruby, I missed the 2nd half so just watched it on iPlayer and it was like watching a different game. The deciding factor for me was Weir coming on. as soon as Scotland started to put on pressure the penalty count started to rise.

[stub]

Well done Scotland - you ground out a superb result which sometimes is what needs to happen. It will be interesting to see the match against Wales now. I think that will be a tougher ask but who knows?

[RuggerRadge2611]

You know what it reminded me off? The game that is...

the opener of the 6N this year. The only difference being we held Ireland at bay and they were within striking distance when we gained the ascendency. Kidney helped by taking Jackson off, but essentially it was a repeat of the game at the millenium stadium except Scotland defended better. Ireland powerful and dominant in the 1st half but as the 2nd half wore on we came back into the game. Although in the Ireland vs. Wales game the welsh were too far behind to really threaten.

thoughts?

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