Post Scotland v Wales: Scotland consolidation thread

by **George Carlin** Sun 10 Mar 2013 - 7:46

First topic message reminder :

Well, I didn't see the game last night but it sounds like it was ruined as a spectacle from the outset by Liza Minelli Joubert.

Where are we now as a team? What do we know? Does our current placing reflect accurately where we are as a squad?

It seems to me (admittedly, not having seen the game, so I'll need your help) that:

1. The lack of time together with the squad and management has told? We didn't have much time with SJ and DR and it has ultimately showed. A 'back to basics' approach was necessary for us but also expedient as we didn't have the opportunity to consider more complex structures. I think what I'm saying is that you cannot blame the coaches for this. The core of the Welsh team have been together for years and that cohesiveness, especially in defense, seems to show when it counts.

2. Our set piece is good, provided that horrendous refeering does not do us a disservice.

3. However, just because we are solid defensively, adopting what is clearly a pre-ascertained strategy of not playing in our own half puts a lot of pressure on us defensively. Ironically, it does not play to our current strengths, which is giving our back three a chance with ball in hand.

4. We are missing Rennie and Barclay desperately. I don't think that it's sustainable to play Harley instead of Barclay or Fusaro in the next match. We need a fetcher.

5. I think that the value of Scott Johnson as a coach will diminish considerably if the SRU cannot persuade Dean Ryan to stay on. All good coaching set-ups are team affairs (Henry and Wayne, Mallett and Meehan, Dingo Deans and his sock puppet).

6. Unless we beat France, I am minded not to try and describe this campaign as a success. Mathematically we cannot finish bottom but with this group of players, I actually expected better.

What are your thoughts about where we are now?

by bsando Sun 10 Mar 2013 - 23:45

Heuer27 wrote:This thread is supposed to be about where Scotland go from here.
There is a lions thread that you have successfully identified which may be a better place for you to continue your discussion.

Dr T Horne could be a 10 but I'm not sure he would be successful at international level. I know he has played there throughout the age groups though.
With Jackson and Weir ahead of him at Glasgow his opportunities would be limited to games where they are on Scotland duty.
I think Dunbar is a better 12 too. If Ansbro comes back the same player the 13 jersey would be his until Bennett proves himself. It's great to be able to talk about real options for an exciting Scottish back line for the first time in as long as I can remember.

Definitely! Backline is shaping up very nicely. I agree that Horne should stick to centre. We have three great FH's and I think that'll do for now. Centre is a more vulnerable area. Would be nice to see Scotland chucking the ball around a bit more though and committing more numbers to rucks.

by Heuer27 Sun 10 Mar 2013 - 23:50

Can we just agree that there are no outstanding teams in this 6N .
England showed glimpses against Scotland
Ireland against Wales
Italy against France
Scotland against Italy
Where as Wales have been steadily average which seems to be enough this season to challenge for the honours.
Apart from week 1 this has been a poor championship.
You don't need to agree with this but the results seem to suggest its true.
If I was Robbie Deans I wouldn't be terribly worried about the summer going by what has happened here so far.
Hopefully the last set of games will give us all something to cheer about but I doubt it.
If im right then the IRB need to get a grip of scrum , defensive line and breakdown laws in the close season to open the game up and assist the refs and players to provide entertaining running rugby.

by Taffineastbourne Sun 10 Mar 2013 - 23:57

Heuer27 wrote:Can we just agree that there are no outstanding teams in this 6N .
England showed glimpses against Scotland
Ireland against Wales
Italy against France
Scotland against Italy
Where as Wales have been steadily average which seems to be enough this season to challenge for the honours.
Apart from week 1 this has been a poor championship.
You don't need to agree with this but the results seem to suggest its true.
If I was Robbie Deans I wouldn't be terribly worried about the summer going by what has happened here so far.
Hopefully the last set of games will give us all something to cheer about but I doubt it.
If im right then the IRB need to get a grip of scrum , defensive line and breakdown laws in the close season to open the game up and assist the refs and players to provide entertaining running rugby.

Australia will be playing the Lions not any of the teams competing for the 6N's.The Lions will be trying to win rather than trying not to lose.Big differences.

by Heuer27 Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 0:04

Long term Horne is prob the answer at 12 for me. Send Weir or Jackson to Edinburgh in the summer and let them play regularly.
Edinburgh lost the plot this season by trying to buy success in the HC. They bought poorly IMO and this seems to have been borne out as the season has progressed.
Scottish qualified players of decent quality have started to come through and not before time.
There are still loads to be done with junior rugby though. There is no structure from the SRU until the kids get to u15 which is criminal.
My own club has only recently met with other local clubs off our own backs to commence summer rugby for s1-2 for which there is no provision for from the SRU. The long term ambition is for all our clubs to play summer rugby from P3 - U 15
There is a massive gap between primary school and secondary school rugby for which our players are generally unprepared for. Their first taste of competitive rugby is when they reach 14 which is too late for me.

by Imperialbigdave Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 0:04

I dont think changing the centres will do anything as they havent had the ball the past two games. The last game where the ball actually made it past the stand off both of them scored tries and Scott couldve had 2 more.

The problem isnt with the outside backs, whove been doing jumping jacks to stay warm while were in possesion, its the tactics of 1-10.

by Heuer27 Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 0:18

Not immediately Dave but if and when the Scottish pack sort out the breakdown and scrum then we have options in the outside backs. Scott has done well with the ball but he was second choice before the start of the tournament to Horne so the coaches obviously think he has something Scott doesn't. SJ didn't want to meddle with a winning team lets see what he does now. It's the pack and probably more the tactics employed by them in the competition so far that has been the teams Achilles heel.
Killer B's back together should go some way to sorting the breakdown area. Barclay needs to impress new employers so should be hungry to make an impact. Gray is out then its an opportunity to get Swinson / Gilchrist involved either from the start or on the bench. Hamilton needs to stop the needless penalties or he drops to the bench. Ford too.

by bsando Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 0:28

Yeah it really is a case of tactics, or Scotland's forwards somehow making the current ones work in the backs favour. Scotland need quick ball in my opinion. If that means committing more men to the break down like ireland do, then so be it. Our scramble defence is good and I think we have enough potency in the backs to pull it off.

by lauriehow Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 1:28

Not a wum, but observations. Your Scottish media fan the flames and make you think you are better than you are. Lack of success over the last few years makes you grasp for straws. Set the sights lower at first. Build foundations eg good teams like Glasgow, but beef up the Scottish element. Good luck to you - you have done well on some talent, and a lot of determination.

by **George Carlin** Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 6:32

Risca Rev wrote:https://www.606v2.com/t41065-your-lions-squad-38-player#1883550

Thread with 12 Scottish Lions on there.

You actually did it. Dance for me! Dance!

by **George Carlin** Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 6:45

Imperialbigdave wrote:I dont think changing the centres will do anything as they havent had the ball the past two games. The last game where the ball actually made it past the stand off both of them scored tries and Scott couldve had 2 more.

The problem isnt with the outside backs, whove been doing jumping jacks to stay warm while were in possesion, its the tactics of 1-10.

I agree IBD. The forwards thing is quite strange because as we've noted in previous weeks, their defensive effort has been good (R. Ford to the Naughty Step for the missed tackles against England) but I cannot recall so few players being committed to the rucks before. Our counterrucking has been very good in previous years so I can only assume that this is something (a) Dean Ryan has not chosen to correct and (b) exacerbated by the lack of a proper openside.

In terms of backline, what kind of selector Scott Johnson is will be shown starkly for the France game. He cannot finish bottom, he cannot win the thing and he must know that this may potentially be his last game in charge of the team. He doesns't have anything to lose by experimenting and he's now seen his team suffer two quite chunky defeats using his tactics. Does he twist or stick?

I don't think that he has anything whatsoever to lose by starting Dunbar instead of Lamont and if he does that then I think he Dunbar needs his Glasgow centre partner of Horne in there with him. Scott has played well but AD has been showing the sort of form that makes a case for his continuing exclusion very difficult to answer. If he keeps Weir, then that's essentially a full Glasgow backline (less Laidlaw and Visser) which is used to playing together. Surely, surely SJ knows (particularly as an attack coach by training) that our best chance of beating the French is to keep it in hand and run at them. Bastereaud has been caught out of position defensively a couple of times and whilst Huget is sparkling in attack he is not the biggest of men and we should target him.

I am sure that the locks will be Hamilton and Kellock and whilst I see the constant ommission of Swinson as a mistake, I would also be happy to see Gilchrist out there more.

by **RDW** Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 7:22

Didn't realise that Ford was warned for delaying the hit having spent all game being told not to engage early - what the hell were they meant to do?? Headscratch

by **RDW** Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 7:26

On the backs debate I know we've not got anything to lose but I don't think we should aim to set yet another record and field the youngest backline in history with the least number of caps ever!

I think Dunbar stands the best chance but let's be honest - after every game on here we have been suggesting the same changes but they never happen!

by **George Carlin** Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 7:31

I think that we're allowed to dream, RDW. But practically, you're right.

I have no truck with Matt Scott. It's been a tough step up to the international party but he's done well and I don't think has looked out of his depth. He's still only 22/23 I think and will improve. Our frustrations with his mightly Schlongness are well known but is says a lot about how much we all like his cojones that nobody really objects to seeing him in there and you can always justify it with someone as big as Basteraud in his channel.

What a new management team (it might be SJ, it might not) will hopefully do is to look afresh at centre combinations for the summer tour and be brave enough to try something new.

by TJ1 Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 7:46

Please do not feed the trolls. Just ignore the childish windups. Ignore them then will hopefully go away and keep reporting the posts.

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 8:57

George Carlin wrote:I think that we're allowed to dream, RDW. But practically, you're right.

I have no truck with Matt Scott. It's been a tough step up to the international party but he's done well and I don't think has looked out of his depth. He's still only 22/23 I think and will improve. Our frustrations with his mightly Schlongness are well known but is says a lot about how much we all like his cojones that nobody really objects to seeing him in there and you can always justify it with someone as big as Basteraud in his channel.

What a new management team (it might be SJ, it might not) will hopefully do is to look afresh at centre combinations for the summer tour and be brave enough to try something new.

I thought SJ was coaching the summer tour?

by RubyGuby Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 9:00

TJ is right, ignore the trolls but don't be offended by constructive criticism of the Scotland squad from other posters, it's a fine line but sometimes it's the best advice you can take, even if it is a little painful at first. We can all be a little one eyed with our own teams thumbsup

by **George Carlin** Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 9:02

NeilyBroon wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I think that we're allowed to dream, RDW. But practically, you're right.

I have no truck with Matt Scott. It's been a tough step up to the international party but he's done well and I don't think has looked out of his depth. He's still only 22/23 I think and will improve. Our frustrations with his mightly Schlongness are well known but is says a lot about how much we all like his cojones that nobody really objects to seeing him in there and you can always justify it with someone as big as Basteraud in his channel.

What a new management team (it might be SJ, it might not) will hopefully do is to look afresh at centre combinations for the summer tour and be brave enough to try something new.

I thought SJ was coaching the summer tour?

Sorry, yes, you're right: http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/rugby/scott-johnson-confirmed-by-sru-as-interim-head-coach.1356010323

by reallybored Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 9:04

Morgannwg I originally came on here to discuss Scotland and how I've judged our performances so far, with other Scottish rugby followers. It was you and Rev that hijacked the discussion and rather than offering anything constructive, just insulted our players, the teams results and showed general distain for our fans belief that we could beat Wales.

You won on Saturday, fine that's what the record books will say. I for don't think you dominated the match in the way you believe and up until the 70th minute it could have gone either way. But that matters little now, so until next year I don't give two hoots about Wales or how ours players compare.

So unless you've got something productive to say about Scotland and our chances next weekend, go somewhere else and ........

I really think the major problem is the gain line and not the breakdown that everyone is bleating on about, we're struggling to generate momentum in attack which makes it almost impossible to retain the ball after a couple phases.

Also, why on god's green earth do we never go wide when we're on the opposition's line?? It's like the pack get white-line fever and Laidlaw forgets about the backs.

by TJ1 Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 9:07

Reallybored - just ignore him - and report his posts. answering him gives him the food to sustain his windups - ignore him and without an audience he will eventually stop hopefully. Report the wind up posts and then ignore - its the best way to deal with it.

by TJ1 Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 9:08

I really think the major problem is the gain line and not the breakdown that everyone is bleating on about, we're struggling to generate momentum in attack which makes it almost impossible to retain the ball after a couple phases.

The two are closely related - don't ruck well and we get slow ball allowing the opposition to get organised and hit us behind the gainline. Get quick ball and there is space to run into.

by **George Carlin** Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 9:09

reallybored wrote:Morgannwg I originally came on here to discuss Scotland and how I've judged our performances so far, with other Scottish rugby followers. It was you and Rev that hijacked the discussion and rather than offering anything constructive, just insulted our players, the teams results and showed general distain for our fans belief that we could beat Wales.

You won on Saturday, fine that's what the record books will say. I for don't think you dominated the match in the way you believe and up until the 70th minute it could have gone either way. But that matters little now, so until next year I don't give two hoots about Wales or how ours players compare.

So unless you've got something productive to say about Scotland and our chances next weekend, go somewhere else and ........

I really think the major problem is the gain line and not the breakdown that everyone is bleating on about, we're struggling to generate momentum in attack which makes it almost impossible to retain the ball after a couple phases.

Also, why on god's green earth do we never go wide when we're on the opposition's line?? It's like the pack get white-line fever and Laidlaw forgets about the backs.

A few people have mentioned that Laidlaw may not have completely trusted Jackson's distribution and was given carte blanche to kick. I hope that's not true as it points to wider problems if it is. It may also take a bit of getting used to that we have a back three who can score. I'll only be p!ssed at the French game if we don't let the holy trinity at the back run free.

by RubyGuby Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 9:33

George, at the moment the winning rugby does not appear to be that that lets the back 3 run freely. Defences are on top and that might be suicide rugby. I know it's a fine line but the team that tends to throw the ball around at the moment is the team that's there for the taking - A strong platform and a strong defence should be the first order of the day. Scotland's defence is pretty good IMO thumbsup

by **RDW** Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 9:43

To be honest I'd much rather see us lose 45-25 on Saturday and score a few tries than 18-6 playing negative rugby without the ball!

yes that doesn't just mean fling it to the back 3 but I'd like to see us have a go.

by MacKnocked-on Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 9:52

The Scottish scrum was put in an impossible situation by the ref (and Wales also, but certainly to a lesser extent), his inconsistency was ridiculous, the idea that you would willingly cheat on your own put-in on the opposition 5m line? It wasn't as if he was picking up on illegal binding etc, he was obsessed with the timing of the engagement, but his interpretation of that timing changed everytime.
Having said that, Scotland's tactics were poor, what on earth were we thinking wasting all that time near the end of the match trying to bash over through the forwards, it was crying out for a backs move. If we had scored at that point and still had a few minutes left to play then we may have created another scoring chance and drwan or even won the game.
And don't get me started on Jim Hamilton's penalties.....

by TJ1 Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 10:01

MacKnocked-on wrote:The Scottish scrum was put in an impossible situation by the ref (and Wales also, but certainly to a lesser extent), his inconsistency was ridiculous, the idea that you would willingly cheat on your own put-in on the opposition 5m line? It wasn't as if he was picking up on illegal binding etc, he was obsessed with the timing of the engagement, but his interpretation of that timing changed everytime.
Having said that, Scotland's tactics were poor, what on earth were we thinking wasting all that time near the end of the match trying to bash over through the forwards, it was crying out for a backs move. If we had scored at that point and still had a few minutes left to play then we may have created another scoring chance and drwan or even won the game.
And don't get me started on Jim Hamilton's penalties.....

Agreed

by reallybored Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 10:29

TJ wrote:
I really think the major problem is the gain line and not the breakdown that everyone is bleating on about, we're struggling to generate momentum in attack which makes it almost impossible to retain the ball after a couple phases.

The two are closely related - don't ruck well and we get slow ball allowing the opposition to get organised and hit us behind the gainline. Get quick ball and there is space to run into.

They are closely related, don't think you can underestimate the effect of getting a yard over the gain-line has for the supporting players rucking, compared with having to run backward and then joining the ruck.

I would love to see some tries this weekend but I want to win, and if that means another battle in the trenches so be it. Saying that, our matches in Paris tend to be quite open and I'd expect more of the same on Saturday.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 10:43

I really don't follow the argument for dropping Matt Scott, and I certainly don't think you can compare his last two outings for Scotland against Dunbar's recent outings for Glasgow. Hardly a fair comparison.

The case for Horne isn't at 12 in my view, it's at 10. I think he showed up well as a 10 for Glasgow, the only real issue being his goal kicking (which isn't an issue for Scotland with Laidlaw). However, as Weir can do no wrong (on here anyway), I think Weir starts against France.

The problem is with the forwards, not the backs. We don't have a fetcher, and the front five includes Murray and Hamilton, meaning that we're slower and not as dynamic at the breakdown as other sides. Given that the scrums are now a total farce, I'd sacrifice the bulk for a more dynamic side against France. We need more speed on the ball and a lighter and more dynamic pack. Throughout the entire tournament our continuity hasn't been there, as we don't have the pack to sustain a proper attacking wave. Murray, Hamilton and Harley out, Cross, Swinson and Barclay in - and I'd have MacArthur on the bench as well.

S Lamont has done little wrong, but I think Dunbar is faster and more dynamic, and accordingly I'd have him installed at 13 (in fact I'd have actually gone for Grove be he now seems to be entirely forgotten).

I doubt this will be the panacea, but it should improve our ability in open play to turnover or retain ball, and we need that in order to feed the backs proper front foot ball.

Agree with RDW - now is the time to have a go. Absolutely no point in playing this one conservatively. If we have front foot ball, we shouldn't kick it away, regarding of where we are on the pitch. We have players who can score from deep, we need to start trusting them.

Oh, and last word goes to Tim Visser. I enjoyed very little of the match on Saturday, but twice did Tim Visser do the basics well. First time the ball was kicked over his head he took a great catch and returned the ball with interest. Second time the great "world class" George North was steaming towards him, and I must say I wasn't expecting Visser to so much as slow him down, but no, Visser felled North like a weak sappling. Wonderful moment for an Edinburgh fan, in an otherwise miserable Joubert-whistle fest.

by Guest Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 10:52

George Carlin wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:https://www.606v2.com/t41065-your-lions-squad-38-player#1883550

Thread with 12 Scottish Lions on there.
You actually did it. Dance for me! Dance!

Why wouldn't I? You wanted me to prove it, so I did. Pretty ironic that somebody who moaned about his thread not being posted on in a correct manner decides to drag it down again after it had moved on to what you Scots wanted.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 10:58

The match was certainly a lot closer than a lot of Welsh on here are saying. I went out after the match to drown my sorrows with the Victors, all of whom were very graceful and relieved that they had won. Every single Welsh fan I met acknowleged that they had gotten away with murder at the scrums and breakdowns. The ref had a shocker, but again Scotland made too many mistakes at critical times, Kellock being stripped of the ball by Adam Jones at that lineout, not spinning the ball out to the backs when we had the Welsh line under siege and Hamilton endlessly giving away STUPID penalties.

Wales won, but it wasn't convincing, they did enough to win but it would be silly to say that they dominated. The best team did win, but there is nowhere near as much between the 2 teams as some posters think.

So my changes for France.

Our scrum really got neutered by the ref on Saturday, it went from potent weapon to a massive liability. We'll miss Gray big time and Hamilton and Kellock should also be dropped for stupidity and ineptitude.

Murray didn't play badly but Cross should get a crack at the French as reward for his gutsy performance against Ireland, finally let's either start Barclay or Fusaro, we have to call time with this Brown at 7 experiment and either reuinite the Killer B's or try a proper openside.

1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Cross
4. Gilchrist
5. Swinson
6. Brown
7. Barclay
8. Beattie

As for the backs, it seemed we lacked the confidence to take the Welsh on with the ball in hand, when we did (in the last 8 minutes) it was too late, but for that period of time we looked dangerous. I reckon the backs are almost right but we can't escape from the fact that Lamont is not a centre.

I have read some criticism of Scott on this thread, harsh IMO when he defended well and when he did get a chance to run he did, and didn't look out of place against Roberts. We need to send Lamont out to stud or put him on the bench instead of Max "Smeagol" Evans and give either Horne or Dunbar a chance.

I would also ask Laidlaw to keep the oppositiong guessing with his varied box kicking but don't get too hung up on it. By all means have a go at the opposition, even if we are in our own half.

9. Laidlaw
10. Weir
11. Visser
12. Scott
13. Dunbar/Horne
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

by **George Carlin** Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:00

RubyGuby wrote:George, at the moment the winning rugby does not appear to be that that lets the back 3 run freely. Defences are on top and that might be suicide rugby. I know it's a fine line but the team that tends to throw the ball around at the moment is the team that's there for the taking - A strong platform and a strong defence should be the first order of the day. Scotland's defence is pretty good IMO

Yes Ruby - it's all been very tight. Worries me a little as we'll need to score tries against the Wallabies.

by RubyGuby Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:04

I wouldn't worry about the Wallabies for now as the Lions have the power, pace and dynamism to hurt them and that will be a completely different ball game. thumbsup

by Guest Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:13

reallybored wrote:Morgannwg I originally came on here to discuss Scotland and how I've judged our performances so far, with other Scottish rugby followers. It was you and Rev that hijacked the discussion and rather than offering anything constructive, just insulted our players, the teams results and showed general distain for our fans belief that we could beat Wales.

I insulted your players? I think you'll find that when I've been allowed to post about rugby on here, I've done so constructively. I like how all this is allegedly all mine and Morgannwg's fault. I guess some people can't handle constructive criticism. It's far too easy to throw wum accusations out, but I can look through my posts and see that there's no wumming in there. I'm also not going to just leave it when people accuse me of things, or get a little sensitive over everything and rather than try and discuss rugby, decide to run to the mods or block people like little children.

People are allowed to have opinions and should be allowed to offer them. All of this could easily be avoided anyway, if it didn't seem like a perfectly reasonable post was being reported. It also seems like some posters on here are allowed to digress from talking about Saturday's game without being jumped on and others aren't.

by Tattie Scones RRN Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:21

Well I've arrived home after spending a fortune on what was a real waste of 80 minutes in my life. Luckily the pre and post match banter made up for it.

One thing that was mentioned a few times by those who were listening to the Ref Mic, was that Dai Joubert apparently mentioned to Phillips about the Scots' pack being a bunch of amateurs??? Can anyone confirm this?

Not much more to be said that hasn't already been said but France are there for the taking and a further 1 or 2 changes to the team might help chances of a win out in Paris.

Forwards need to be told that they just to need to win ball and get it to the backs. Reverting to type is not the answer.

by Glas a du Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:23

I hope that's true Tattie, he should be banned for such an insult, just as Parisse was for insulting a ref.

by **RDW** Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:28

I love the line in the Scotsman today saying 'Laidlaw looked like he wanted to throttle the ref'!

A good interview with Ross Ford too - he said he was speaking to the ref throughout the game and there was nothing they could do that was right. They tried everything he said but still penalised them.

I still can't believe Joubert was gonna yellow card a hooker for persistent srums penalties!

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:29

Laidlaw's disdainful throwing the ball at his feet at that final penalty on Saturday said it all.

by Glas a du Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:32

Yes but then we wouldn't have an exciting grand slam/championship decider this weekend. I am not for a moment suggesting that had anything to do with Joubert's decision making process mind you, or even Clancy's yesterday. You just may have thought that I had, but I hadn't.

Honestly.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:32

Whether Joubert said that or not, he should still be in trouble after his last two performances. That's 4 out of the 6 packs in the tournament that couldn't figure out what he wanted at the scrum, so either he's right, or the majority of forwards and forward coaches in the tournament are wrong.

Scrums are an important part of the game, and at present they are a total lottery. Why on God's earth Joubert thought Scotland would sabotage their own 5 metre attacking scrum I have no idea. There was only one amateur on the pitch on Saturday.

by Glas a du Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:34

Don't listen to everything Jiffy says for a start. They wanted the nudge on and knew the importance of a good hit. I'm not saying they should have been penalised, I'm saying the IRB arer a shower for leaving the scrum to be such a blydi lottery.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:34

Glas a du wrote:Yes but then we wouldn't have an exciting grand slam/championship decider this weekend. I am not for a moment suggesting that had anything to do with Joubert's decision making process mind you, or even Clancy's yesterday. You just may have thought that I had, but I hadn't.

Honestly.

Joubert was crap, no doubt but he isn't the only reason the game was vomit

.

Scotland weren't confident enough in their own abilities to take the Welsh backs on, but when we did it was a better game. For me the last 7 minutes were the best part of the game. The rest was an abhorant kicking fest.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:35

Glas a du wrote:Don't listen to everything Jiffy says for a start. They wanted the nudge on and knew the importance of a good hit. I'm not saying they should have been penalised, I'm saying the IRB arer a shower for leaving the scrum to be such a blydi lottery.

They didn't go early anyway. Or certainly any earlier than Wales did on their scrums.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:37

Glas a du wrote:Don't listen to everything Jiffy says for a start. They wanted the nudge on and knew the importance of a good hit. I'm not saying they should have been penalised, I'm saying the IRB arer a shower for leaving the scrum to be such a blydi lottery.

I realise there are IRB laws issues here as well, but other refs seem to be able to handle it better than Joubert. The timing of his calls must be confusing, otherwise how can you explain 4 out of 6 packs in the tournament failing to understand what's going on? The Welsh were done for it as well remember, albeit not in such an advantageous position. At one stage Phillips put the ball into the scrum with the Scots pack rapidly retreating, and somehow that wasn't an early hit??

Joubert frankly has no idea how to ref a scrum. That's two games in a row the scrum has been reduced to a shambles on his watch.

by Glas a du Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:40

That's my point. All scrums want to be as early as they can. How can a ref decide if a team goes early when the law says "don't go early" but that's what you have to do because that's what everybody is doing to get the advantage. Blame the ref if you want, and he was poor, but the stupid laws are actually to blame.

There should be no hit. The bind should be passive. No crouching. The ref should inspect and modify binding and the shove should come on at the same time as the ball comes in - straight. A good pack will still be able to shove a poor pack off the ball. Hookers will have to hook again. It realy is that simple.

by Guest Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:44

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Laidlaw's disdainful throwing the ball at his feet at that final penalty on Saturday said it all.

He probably should've given Wales an extra ten metres for that. Joubert was poor for both teams I agree, but I think it didn't help the game as a spectacle that neither ten really wanted to try something.

Do you think Scotland will play with more confidence in Paris? Both teams finished their respective matches pretty strongly, but hopefully Scotland will start well and turn the Paris crowd against their team.

I do think that the scrums will be forced to go that way. If nothing else, it will also allow refs to concentrate on things like crooked feeds also.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:51

Risca Rev wrote:
Do you think Scotland will play with more confidence in Paris? Both teams finished their respective matches pretty strongly, but hopefully Scotland will start well and turn the Paris crowd against their team.

I do think that the scrums will be forced to go that way. If nothing else, it will also allow refs to concentrate on things like crooked feeds also.

I hope so, This Scotland team has a chance to be really good. It's Laidlaw's 1st season as an international 9 and Weir's 1st season as an international 10, we also miss out specialist 7s. Not having Rennie or Barclay for the bulk of the tournament has really hurt us and our strong mobile pack has become a little stronger and a lot less mobile due to the conditioning of Murray and Hamilton who I expect to be replaced by Cross and Swinson for France. Bringing Barclay in would be sensible too.

I also think Lamont needs to be shown the door in favour of a proper 13. Grove would be my pick but I expect Dunbar or Horne might get their chances.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:51

Glas a du wrote:That's my point. All scrums want to be as early as they can. How can a ref decide if a team goes early when the law says "don't go early" but that's what you have to do because that's what everybody is doing to get the advantage. Blame the ref if you want, and he was poor, but the stupid laws are actually to blame.

There should be no hit. The bind should be passive. No crouching. The ref should inspect and modify binding and the shove should come on at the same time as the ball comes in - straight. A good pack will still be able to shove a poor pack off the ball. Hookers will have to hook again. It realy is that simple.

I entirely agree. Brian Moore made exactly the same point in his commentary yesterday. Passive bind with a straight put in and let the packs take it from there. It's remarkable how much of a mess the IRB have made of this.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:53

The key to Paris is getting ahead early. The crowd will be eager to boo their own side after what has come to pass this tournament, and we must take advantage. We should also counter attack more aggressively and kick less ball. The French defence is good at set piece, but once the game opens up we shouldn't be afraid to take them on. They have great runners as always, but so do we.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:54

I also feel sorry for Kelly Brown, he got woefully exposed by Warburton on Saturday. Warburton seems to be recovering his form and is far from his best but he was more than able to keep Brown quiet.

Brown put in another exhausting shift where he made another 9 tackles and a turnover but he seemed to spend the bulk of it trying to detatch Warburton from the rucks as he pilfered the Scottish ball at will.

Harley was really quiet and to be honest should be replaced by Barcaly for france.

by RubyGuby Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 11:57

I think poor Kelly Brown lost the will to live after Joubert pinged Scotland for the upteenth time - I would not have wanted to have been a scottish fan after that refereeing performance, Joubert was so arrogant and unhelpful. thumbsup

by Hound_of_Harrow Mon 11 Mar 2013 - 12:09

Scotland need a bit more nous on how to find a way through the rugby league style defence that Wales employ. That's why Weir's chip and chase was the right tactic. Plus get KB to ask the ref and asst refs to keep an eye on the offside line Wink

You should get a bit more of an open game against France. Similar to England and Italy's approach where they try to get the ball wide rather than trucking it up the middle.

As Ruby said, that can be high risk rugby, but several of Scotland's tries have come from forcing, or exploiting, opposition errors.

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