Indian Wells Match Thread (Nadal wins!)

[Silver]

First topic message reminder :

Rafael Nadal defeats Juan Martin Del Potro to win Indian Wells 2013! 4-6, 6-3, 6-4.

Nadal's route to the title:

R1: Bye
R2: Ryan Harrison (7-6, 6-2)
R3: Leonardo Mayer (Walkover)
R4: Ernests Gulbis (4-6, 6-4, 7-5)
QF: Roger Federer (6-4, 6-2)
SF: Tomas Berdych (6-4, 7-5)
F: Juan Martin Del Potro (4-6, 6-3, 6-4)

Updated draw on the ATP site.

[LuvSports!]

Call it blind faith if you will .. but I believe Rafa can win this tournament.
He has improved with every match he has played and with a new found determination to prove to himself, if not everybody else, that he is back knee or no knee and with my neck stuck out I say Vamos Rafa

finally some honesty.

[laverfan]

@Kingraf... Agassi was playing Challengers during that crisis of confidence.

I want to see a 5+ hour final - Nadal v Djokovic. Anything less, would be denying the fans their money's worth. I want to see a 70-shot rally for every point and no aces. I want the 25-second rule thrown out of the window. The players can go sit on their chairs after every point, or show kiss-cam after every point to allow player recovery. I want to see an Oxygen tent around each player's seat in the final.

Ah what a final to look forward to.

Perhaps Ellison can get a tennis lesson squeezed in between each point in the final.

Where is the sand for Crandon Park? Miami Beach?

[JuliusHMarx]

I was watching Murray/JMDP and when Delpo hit his first ace of the match, in the second set, there were cheers and whistles and whoops. Clearly those fans don't know good entertainment from bad.

[Chydremion]

Del Potro just played consistent tennis, not doing anything special with the ball. He is probably never gonna learn how to hit the ball properly. Djokovic to tear him apart on this type of court. With nobody challenging Novak, these times are no less weak era than the past ten years.

[Danny_1982]

Nobody challenging Novak? He's on a great run, but I personally don't think he'll win either RG or Wimbledon.

I think Murray and Rafa will challenge Novak over the next few years. It's far from a 1 man show in my opinion. 4 different people have won the last 4 slams remember.

[User 774433]

Call it blind faith if you will .. but I believe Rafa can win this tournament.
He has improved with every match he has played and with a new found determination to prove to himself, if not everybody else, that he is back knee or no knee and with my neck stuck out I say Vamos Rafa

finally some honesty.

lol, it's a prediction LS. All 4 players in the draw can still win, and although Djokovic is favourite according to the bookies, HN has stuck her neck out and said Rafa will win- which is fair enough

However what she didn't say, and what I've seen absolutely no one say, is that Nadal is back to his best this week. He is improving, as he comes back from injury, but not yet at his best.

[The Special Juan]

Nobody challenging Novak? He's on a great run, but I personally don't think he'll win either RG or Wimbledon.

I think Murray and Rafa will challenge Novak over the next few years. It's far from a 1 man show in my opinion. 4 different people have won the last 4 slams remember.

If he's going to play as well as he did in 2011 there's no reason why he can't go on and win RG at least. Fognini Federer won't stop him this year. I can only see Nadal challenging Djokovic on clay and grass as on a hard court I reckon Nadal won't come close to him.

[Chydremion]

Let's hope Djokovic puts Nadal in his place, as the other players in this weak era aren't even capable to beat a guy who was out for 8 months.

[CaledonianCraig]

Clay you may have a point TSJ but grass? Sure Djokovic has won Wimbledon but his form on that surface otherwise doesn't suggest he will dominate even when Roger Federer retires.

[Danny_1982]

Don't get me wrong Juan, I think he's got a shot at RG but an on form Rafa is almost unbeatable there. And I think Murray is going to win Wimbledon.

Novak is the clear number 1 and the man in form. I just personally don't see him matching 2011 in terms of streak or slams. I think the other 2 will stop him doing that.

[Haddie-nuff]

Call it blind faith if you will .. but I believe Rafa can win this tournament.
He has improved with every match he has played and with a new found determination to prove to himself, if not everybody else, that he is back knee or no knee and with my neck stuck out I say Vamos Rafa

finally some honesty.

lol, it's a prediction LS. All 4 players in the draw can still win, and although Djokovic is favourite according to the bookies, HN has stuck her neck out and said Rafa will win- which is fair enough

However what she didn't say, and what I've seen absolutely no one say, is that Nadal is back to his best this week. He is improving, as he comes back from injury, but not yet at his best.

No I didn´t say he was at his best .. but as each match has passed he has got better ..that being said I still think he has enough to prove the point. My reasoning is that I dont think Berdych has enough to stop him and I dont think Novak is at his best either. So if Im wrong I will stand in front of the firing squad on 606v2 because I know as sure as God made little apples I will be forced to eat my words

[socal1976]

Del Potro just played consistent tennis, not doing anything special with the ball. He is probably never gonna learn how to hit the ball properly. Djokovic to tear him apart on this type of court. With nobody challenging Novak, these times are no less weak era than the past ten years.

Hopefully Djoko gets a good 5 years with Rollover generation 2 so he can even out the stats with Roger. I love it Murray is USO champion, Nadal is 16-1 as long as these two are healthy can't see this period comparable to the cupcake filled early to mid 2000s. But i do agree with you del po really has weak change of direction on the backhand.

[socal1976]

I was watching Murray/JMDP and when Delpo hit his first ace of the match, in the second set, there were cheers and whistles and whoops. Clearly those fans don't know good entertainment from bad.

Funny Djoko had no problem hitting aces against Tsonga on the same court. Murray hit a lot of aces but was handing out double faults like jolly ole st. Nick. The court is way slow though and guess what it has been a great tournament with lots of competive three set matchs and big upsets. With 3 of the top 5 being knocked out by the semis. Del Po has the same problem as Berdych his placement and lack of variety on the serve defeats the raw power he can generate when playing a truely top player and returner.

In comparison to the Dubai snoozefest or the speedy cincy withdrawal fests of recent years give me the slow courts of IW every day of the week and twice on sunday.

I agree with Laverfan dump another layer of sand in miami this slow court ball is really entertaining.

[lags72]

............................................................................................

However what she didn't say, and what I've seen absolutely no one say, is that Nadal is back to his best this week. He is improving, as he comes back from injury, but not yet at his best.

The thing about Rafa is ....... even if he's at 70/80% that's more often than not good enough to take care of most players. And that can include even the biggest names - as was illustrated by his summary dismissal of Federer for the loss of just six games. According to those who saw the match (I couldn't) Federer's movement was severely restricted, and yes he's old.....BUT you still have to put him away, and very few guys have shown themselves capable of doing that with such ease.

And so it's a matter of what exactly we consider to be Rafa's 'best'. As ever, these things are ultimately down to subjective opinion. We have all seen many truly spectacular performances from Rafa over the years, but I wonder whether we have seen periods of truly sustained dominance on the tour by him.......?

- In 2010 he won three of the Slams and so that would be considered by most to be his 'best'. And yet Federer has done that in three separate years during his prime

- only once has Rafa's title count made double figures in a single season. Oddly enough, this was way back in 2005 in the very early part of his career. Once again, Federer at his best managed this three times

- Rafa has spent only around a third of the time at Number One as has Federer

In the weeks immediately before Rafa's return I was genuinely surprised by the mood of concern and general pessimism shown by many - not least by those who I would judge to be amongst his biggest supporters. Personally I was convinced that once back he would be in the groove very quickly and so I have not been in any way surprised by his two titles on clay swiftly followed by a fine run so far here on the ('dreaded') hard courts of Indian Wells.

My basic point is that Rafa wins many tournaments whether at his 'best' or not (RG 2012 perhaps as good an example as any). His legacy in the sport is already secure, regardless of what happens from hereon in. But what I think will be more interesting to see over the remainder of his career is whether he can dominate for a prolonged period and move himself up from 7th on the all-time list of weeks spent at Number One to a position closer to what many of us expected from him.

I'm tempted to ask : Is the 'best' of Rafa still to come .........??

[socal1976]

Great post lags, oddly we are finally in agreement, if Nadal's legs hold up he will be at the very top and challenge for all the major trophies. He is a unique talent and frankly I think he is way ahead of schedule with his return. We must remember that a player coming off an injury also has to regain confidece in that leg and Nadal is going to be hesistant to chase lost cause balls the same as in the past for some time till he regains confidence in the leg. I actually think his serve and backhand look better than ever. The forehand as well is starting to really find that old form. He isn't defending yet and passing with the same reckless abandon of the past, but that will be mental hurdle he overcomes if the leg holds up.

[lags72]

Cheers socal (I'd like to think this isn't the only time we've been in agreement...!)

And with your praise ringing in my ears I will just add that I was posting that Rafa would be straight back to winning ways well before he actually did return. I was surprised by those who showed so little faith. Form may be temporary but class is permanent.

Ok, we still have to see how he does when he's facing the top guns week after week, but barring some catastrophic injury recurrence I can't imagine too many players troubling him.........

[LuvSports!]

oh bird

[Jahu]

Come on Rafa, deck him for good

[ALPanorak]

Don't know why there are so many Nadal naysayers. The guy has been his usual resilient self, playing solid tennis all week and he's striking it nicely today against Berdych. I'd expect him to take Djokovic to 3 sets at least (provided both reach the final of course). 5-3 Nadal so far...

[socal1976]

Cheers socal (I'd like to think this isn't the only time we've been in agreement...!)

And with your praise ringing in my ears I will just add that I was posting that Rafa would be straight back to winning ways well before he actually did return. I was surprised by those who showed so little faith. Form may be temporary but class is permanent.

Ok, we still have to see how he does when he's facing the top guns week after week, but barring some catastrophic injury recurrence I can't imagine too many players troubling him.........

You see how rewarding it is to apply socal's maxim. I was also talking up his chances when everyone was moaning about end of the world scenarios as well, to me he looks ahead of schedule and lets hope for the best in terms of injuries. But I think he has played great this tournament considering it is both his first test against a full field and the first test on his hardcourt nemesis.

[Jahu]

Has Nike dropped Berdy, apart from shoes? Dubai & here, no logos anywhere.

Rafa takes the first set, well done.

[User 774433]

Nadal has more winners than Berdych here.

[Chydremion]

Nadal, after 8 months of no playing, reaches final in each of his first four tournaments (potentially in each of his first five, six, or seven tournaments as claycourt season about to begin). What a strong era.

[Josiah Maiestas]

Is Berdych paid to make Rafala look half good?

He doesn't even break a sweat against him, like he does against Federer!

[User 774433]

Nadal, after 8 months of no playing, reaches final in each of his first four tournaments (potentially in each of his first five, six, or seven tournaments as claycourt season about to begin). What a strong era.

The first 3 tournaments were quite low level, and allowed Nadal (clay court GOAT) to get back into his groove.
He's not at his best yet, but playing quite well here.

[Chydremion]

Nadal, after 8 months of no playing, reaches final in each of his first four tournaments (potentially in each of his first five, six, or seven tournaments as claycourt season about to begin). What a strong era.

The first 3 tournaments were quite low level, and allowed Nadal (clay court GOAT) to get back into his groove.
He's not at his best yet, but playing quite well here.

Yes, but now Nadal is playing on lava court which burns his knees. He wasn't supposed to reach the final here.

[User 774433]

Nadal, after 8 months of no playing, reaches final in each of his first four tournaments (potentially in each of his first five, six, or seven tournaments as claycourt season about to begin). What a strong era.

The first 3 tournaments were quite low level, and allowed Nadal (clay court GOAT) to get back into his groove.
He's not at his best yet, but playing quite well here.

Yes, but now Nadal is playing on lava court which burns his knees. He wasn't supposed to reach the final here.

I know, that's what I'm trying to figure out, how is he reaching the final here.
tbh I thought he would reach quarters max. I think he'll get crushed in the final by Djoker though, or Tomas may still shock us and comeback.

[ALPanorak]

Nadal, after 8 months of no playing, reaches final in each of his first four tournaments (potentially in each of his first five, six, or seven tournaments as claycourt season about to begin). What a strong era.

The first 3 tournaments were quite low level, and allowed Nadal (clay court GOAT) to get back into his groove.
He's not at his best yet, but playing quite well here.

Yes, but now Nadal is playing on lava court which burns his knees. He wasn't supposed to reach the final here.

I know, that's what I'm trying to figure out, how is he reaching the final here.
tbh I thought he would reach quarters max. I think he'll get crushed in the final by Djoker though, or Tomas may still shock us and comeback.

It's credit to the man, Nadal is an all-time great, obviously not the best but still a very good hard court player. There is absolutely no way a Nadal-Djokovic final is a walkover... Nadal is pulling out his usual repertoire of passing shots, looking ominous for the rest of the tour...

[Chydremion]

What's worst is that Nadal is not yet playing his best (although it's clear it won't take to long before he is), yet he has already crushed the number 2 and 4 player. What does this say about the current level of man's tennis? It's just Djokovic holding up the level on the ATP-tour with Murray pretending he does.

[Silver]

Hmm, Berdych is making this competitive and occasionally making inroads on the Nadal serve. Could he snatch a break?

[ALPanorak]

Yup, Berdych breaks. He's played reasonably well and deserved it.

[laverfan]

Can Berdy take the set?

[Josiah Maiestas]

Larry Ellison showing who he wants to win when he owns the tournament.. obnoxious git!

[socal1976]

Nadal, after 8 months of no playing, reaches final in each of his first four tournaments (potentially in each of his first five, six, or seven tournaments as claycourt season about to begin). What a strong era.

There is a thread for this you chydremion. Even your legendary wit can not diminish the grandeur of the 3 rolls royces of this era Nadal, Djoko, Murray. Fed had no great player to face at his best, his closest rivals were mere puppies in age and ability even at his very best and we all know that. That is why some of his fans are so desperate to convince us otherwise and lionize people like hewitt, Roddick, and Trans fats Dave. Who we all know were simply not very impressive compared to other greats.

[socal1976]

Are billionaires not allowed to cheer for a player they like and be a fan? I think it is refreshing that he sits there in a tee shirt and cheers the game and gets into it. Who cares who he cheers for as long as it is a level playing field.

[laverfan]

The stench of money, JM;)

[socal1976]

I for one am glad Larry ellison is both a player of the game and a big fan. His money has made for a great event year after year.

[laverfan]

Especially B owners.

[socal1976]

He doesn't take a single dime out of IW, he puts it all back into the event, if he wasn't a fan he wouldn't do that, it is obvious this event and the game isn't a business for him but a passion. Good on him.

[ALPanorak]

Nadal breaks to go 6-5 up in slightly fortuitous fashion and will serve for the match. It's been a steady performance and he's a pretty confident closer so I think it's job done.

[The Special Juan]

Clay you may have a point TSJ but grass? Sure Djokovic has won Wimbledon but his form on that surface otherwise doesn't suggest he will dominate even when Roger Federer retires.

I've read my post again and the second sentence was poorly written.

I meant, I can only see Nadal challenging Novak on grass and clay but not on hardcourts. Murray will of course challenge on hardcourts and grass but not on clay. Novak will be in contention for everything.

[Silver]

Rafa's serve is getting him out of jail in this game, three BPs saved with great serving. Match point!

Edit: Very impressive from Nadal. Berdych was hardly in bad form coming into the match, but he's gone in straights.

[User 774433]

VAMOSSS

[ALPanorak]

GSM Nadal. The Bird dug in for that last game and it was a good, competitive match. The fact Nadal has been so successful on return from his absence is not indicative of a weak tour/era but rather just what an exceptional player he is. Now I want to see Novak in the final.

[Haddie-nuff]

Well I got that bit right at any rate... Not such blind faith after all
Well done Rafa !!

[laverfan]

Nadal

[Henman Bill]

Just got back in..how was it? I thought Rafa was actually rather hit and miss against Roger, was he better today?

[Jahu]

Oh man, so glad Rafa won, can not stand this Berdy.

Now between Rafa and Delpo, I'd love Delpo to win this event, thought anyone except Djoko is welcome to take it

[Haddie-nuff]

Just got back in..how was it? I thought Rafa was actually rather hit and miss against Roger, was he better today?

Bliddy marvellous

[Chydremion]

Nadal, after 8 months of no playing, reaches final in each of his first four tournaments (potentially in each of his first five, six, or seven tournaments as claycourt season about to begin). What a strong era.

There is a thread for this you chydremion. Even your legendary wit can not diminish the grandeur of the 3 rolls royces of this era Nadal, Djoko, Murray. Fed had no great player to face at his best, his closest rivals were mere puppies in age and ability even at his very best and we all know that. That is why some of his fans are so desperate to convince us otherwise and lionize people like hewitt, Roddick, and Trans fats Dave. Who we all know were simply not very impressive compared to other greats.

Now let's compare your "rolls royce" era with 2005. The Federer of now is comparable with the Agassi of then. A talented, very succesful aging player, unfortunately a relic of the past. Still capable of brilliant tennis and big victories, but increasingly hindered by injuries. Djokovic is now playing first fidle, like Federer in 2005, with Nadal playing second fidle, just like he did in 2005. And if Murray is a rolls royce, then so were Hewitt and Roddick. Whatever might happen in the future, at the moment Murray still has only one slam so shouldn't be overhyped. And if you look at the "so-called mugs or agricultural players" that completed the top 10 in 2005, just look at this Indian Wells edition and you'll notice Tsonga and Berdych and (Mona)co aren't really doing better. I fail to see how this era is stronger than 2005.

[Sponsored content]