Indian Wells Match Thread (Nadal wins!)

by Silver Fri 15 Mar - 22:46

First topic message reminder :

Rafael Nadal defeats Juan Martin Del Potro to win Indian Wells 2013! 4-6, 6-3, 6-4.

Nadal's route to the title:

R1: Bye
R2: Ryan Harrison (7-6, 6-2)
R3: Leonardo Mayer (Walkover)
R4: Ernests Gulbis (4-6, 6-4, 7-5)
QF: Roger Federer (6-4, 6-2)
SF: Tomas Berdych (6-4, 7-5)
F: Juan Martin Del Potro (4-6, 6-3, 6-4)

Updated draw on the ATP site.

by Josiah Maiestas Sat 16 Mar - 21:23

Even Rafa fans must be disappointed really. If you have to struggle that much against a fool like Berdych then you have no chance in the final against hardcourt supreme!

by lags72 Sat 16 Mar - 21:39

Chydremion wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
Chydremion wrote:Nadal, after 8 months of no playing, reaches final in each of his first four tournaments (potentially in each of his first five, six, or seven tournaments as claycourt season about to begin). What a strong era.

There is a thread for this you chydremion. Even your legendary wit can not diminish the grandeur of the 3 rolls royces of this era Nadal, Djoko, Murray. Fed had no great player to face at his best, his closest rivals were mere puppies in age and ability even at his very best and we all know that. That is why some of his fans are so desperate to convince us otherwise and lionize people like hewitt, Roddick, and Trans fats Dave. Who we all know were simply not very impressive compared to other greats.

Now let's compare your "rolls royce" era with 2005. The Federer of now is comparable with the Agassi of then. A talented, very succesful aging player, unfortunately a relic of the past. Still capable of brilliant tennis and big victories, but increasingly hindered by injuries. Djokovic is now playing first fidle, like Federer in 2005, with Nadal playing second fidle, just like he did in 2005. And if Murray is a rolls royce, then so were Hewitt and Roddick. Whatever might happen in the future, at the moment Murray still has only one slam so shouldn't be overhyped. And if you look at the "so-called mugs or agricultural players" that completed the top 10 in 2005, just look at this Indian Wells edition and you'll notice Tsonga and Berdych and (Mona)co aren't really doing better. I fail to see how this era is stronger than 2005.

Oh dear.....Chydremion how can you fail to see that Federer faded into insignificance once the "Rolls Royce" players arrived replacing all those hopeless guys of Wee Keira....??

Oh hang on a minute. You might have a point - especially when you remember that Federer won the majority of his Slams AFTER Rafa had hit the big time (ie after Rafa had won his first Slam, which by all normal standards denotes total maturity as a professional) ; and then once Djoko too came to real prominence, in 2008, Fed again continued winning Slams, virtually matching Djoko with 5 Slams to 6.

So Federer was not only dominant in his early twenties but has added to his Slam count in every subsequent year of his career to date, other than a blip in 2011.

by User 774433 Sat 16 Mar - 21:47

lags72 wrote:
Oh hang on a minute. You might have a point - especially when you remember that Federer won the majority of his Slams AFTER Rafa had hit the big time (ie after Rafa had won his first Slam, which by all normal standards denotes total maturity as a professional)

LAL.
Nadal trained mostly on clay at the time, and his results reflected this. He was a 19 year old teenager (when he won FO 2005)who could only really at the time play to a high level on one surface. If that's full maturity you're having a laugh.

by lags72 Sat 16 Mar - 21:57

Gee you must think we were all born yesterday Red. Just how gullible do you really believe we are.....?

Rafa was a special talent when it suits you - like when he beat Fed in Miami and won a Slam at 19. But surprise surprise .....he only matured when he eventually stopped losing on HC and grass.

by Chydremion Sat 16 Mar - 21:58

Red wrote:
lags72 wrote:
Oh hang on a minute. You might have a point - especially when you remember that Federer won the majority of his Slams AFTER Rafa had hit the big time (ie after Rafa had won his first Slam, which by all normal standards denotes total maturity as a professional)
LAL.
Nadal trained mostly on clay at the time, and his results reflected this. He was a 19 year old teenager (when he won FO 2005)who could only really at the time play to a high level on one surface. If that's full maturity you're having a laugh.

He was a SLAM WINNER and WORLD NUMBER 2 + he won two hardcourts MS in 2005 if that isn't maturity then rolls royce Murray still isn't mature.

by User 774433 Sat 16 Mar - 22:04

He was not totally mature on all surfaces when he was a teenager. That is what you were saying, which is simply not correct in my eyes.

by summerblues Sat 16 Mar - 22:08

Nole looking better but pretty boring tennis so far.

by summerblues Sat 16 Mar - 22:09

If Nole wins, both of the semis will go against my wishes today Crying or Very sad

On the upside, I will get the final I was hoping for Smile

by User 774433 Sat 16 Mar - 22:11

Chyd- I think you fully know that Nadal was not mature on all surfaces in 2005. He was number 2 in the rankings as Federer's peers who were his age simply weren't good enough.

by lags72 Sat 16 Mar - 22:15

I think we can safely assume that Rafa's "maturity on all surfaces" just happened to coincide with the start of the mythical golden era.

Which (subject to confirmation by socal) just happened to start around 27 January 2008 .......

by summerblues Sat 16 Mar - 22:17

kingraf wrote:but the 'even' adds emphasis to how 'desperate I should be to see Nadal victory, wouldnt you say?

No, I would not.

It is similar to when you see statements like "I do not think Federer can win tournament XYZ with his back problem". It is Federer fans (such as myself Wink

) who are more likely than others to make such statements. So it makes no sense to prepend "Even as a Federer fan,", because that would suggest that Fed fans would be less likely than others to make the statement, contrary to the fact.

Then again, as a non-native English speaker I should maybe shut up and focus on Nole vs Delpo instead of pondering appropriate uses of English expressions.

by User 774433 Sat 16 Mar - 22:18

lags72 wrote:I think we can safely assume that Rafa's "maturity on all surfaces" just happened to coincide with the start of the mythical golden era.

Which (subject to confirmation by socal) just happened to start around 27 January 2008 .......

What a load of nonsense, surely you don't believe that Lags?

There was not 'one point' when Nadal suddenly became mature on all surfaces, I see it as a gradual improvement. I think his game went up a notable few notches around 2007-2008 off clay, but I really can't put an exact number on it.
However to just deny all of this and pretend Nadal was fully mature on all surfaces in 2005 (when he lost to Muller at Wimbledon), is simply ridiculous.

by lags72 Sat 16 Mar - 22:22

Yes it's a load of nonsense Red.

That's why I wrote it.

Happy now ?

by **JuliusHMarx** Sat 16 Mar - 22:24

Rafa (so far) was mature for 2 Wimbys and 1 USO. Sampras and Fed were mature for 7 Wimby's and 5 USOs. Perhaps maturity should be considered in the quest for greatness. Or at the very least, longevity. Very Happy

by User 774433 Sat 16 Mar - 22:25

JuliusHMarx wrote:Rafa (so far) was mature for 2 Wimbys and 1 USO.

You're mad. That is a load of gibberish.

by summerblues Sat 16 Mar - 22:25

JuliusHMarx wrote:Rafa (so far) was mature for 2 Wimbys and 1 USO

by User 774433 Sat 16 Mar - 22:26

Yes, because Nadal was so terrible in Aus Open 2009 and 2012 wasn't he... some people here really do trumpet nonsense.

by summerblues Sat 16 Mar - 22:26

Judging from this first set, it looks like it will be a typical Rafa vs Nole match tomorrow.

by Henman Bill Sat 16 Mar - 22:27

Djokovic for the title here I think at Indian Wells, and looks set for a good year indeed.

by summerblues Sat 16 Mar - 22:28

Red wrote:Yes, because Nadal was so terrible in Aus Open 2009 and 2012 wasn't he...

Is this a response to JHM? If so, then LOL.

by summerblues Sat 16 Mar - 22:30

Henman Bill wrote:Djokovic for the title here I think at Indian Wells, and looks set for a good year indeed.

Yeah, Nole looks very solid - the boring way I would say - but it does not matter how you win them as long as you do.

by User 774433 Sat 16 Mar - 22:31

summerblues wrote:
Red wrote:Yes, because Nadal was so terrible in Aus Open 2009 and 2012 wasn't he...
Is this a response to JHM? If so, then LOL.

What's comical is the earlier claims Nadal was 'totally matured' on all surfaces at the age of 19, and now apparently he has only matured for 3 events off clay.

by Henman Bill Sat 16 Mar - 22:31

Current odds of beating Djokovic - if they played next week on the stated surface

On Hard:
Murray: 40% chance to beat him
Federer: 30% (50% on mid to fast indoor hard)
Rafa: 25%
Others: 10% or less

On Grass:
Federer: 40%
Murray: 40%
Rafa: 35%
Others: 20% or less

On Clay:
Rafa: 60%
Murray: 25%
Federer: 25%
Others: 15% or less

Discuss....

by lags72 Sat 16 Mar - 22:34

JuliusHMarx wrote:Rafa (so far) was mature for 2 Wimbys and 1 USO. Sampras and Fed were mature for 7 Wimby's and 5 USOs. Perhaps maturity should be considered in the quest for greatness. Or at the very least, longevity.

Or to put it another way maybe .........

Maturity can be tracked to the date of your first major success on your least successful (most troublesome...?) surface.

Which in the case of Rafa was as recently as 2010.

And in the case of Federer ..... 2009 Smile

by Jahu Sat 16 Mar - 22:35

Djoko broken. Starts throwing his racquet. He's going down NOW.

by HM Murdock Sat 16 Mar - 22:35

HB - Andy and Rafa would beat Novak on grass next week. Roger normally would but I'm assuming he will still have a painful back next week!

by summerblues Sat 16 Mar - 22:38

Red wrote:and now apparently he has only matured for 3 events off clay.

Well, it is pretty clear what JHM meant, and he did not mean that Rafa only matured for three events. On one hand I know what you are trying to say by mentioning AO09 and AO12, but on the other hand the way you did it it played right into what JHM was saying, so yes, it was funny.

by lags72 Sat 16 Mar - 22:39

Oh and I meant to add JHM : You're mad. I know this because Red says so.

But then aren't we all mad in our own special way ......? Erm

by User 774433 Sat 16 Mar - 22:42

It's total nonsense.
If anyone really believes:
a) Nadal was totally mature on all surfaces when he was 19 in 2005
b) He was only mature off clay for 3 tournaments;
it is lunatic thinking.

by Jahu Sat 16 Mar - 22:43

Delpo brakes Djoko again, what a point.

by Henman Bill Sat 16 Mar - 22:45

HM Murdoch wrote:HB - Andy and Rafa would beat Novak on grass next week. Roger normally would but I'm assuming he will still have a painful back next week!

Maybe..but..- Novak beat Rafa in a Wimbledon final and Andy has never won Wimbledon. Surfaces are more generic these days....

by **JuliusHMarx** Sat 16 Mar - 22:46

summerblues wrote:
Red wrote:and now apparently he has only matured for 3 events off clay.

Well, it is pretty clear what JHM meant, and he did not mean that Rafa only matured for three events.

Thank you SB. I have to admit I did not think anyone would be so (ooops, don't want to break Site Rule 5 with a misplaced adjective) as to take my post entirely literally. I'm glad you understood it.

by User 774433 Sat 16 Mar - 22:48

I had a slight feeling Julius was trolling all along; now confirmed.
Wonder whether Lags was trolling with the 2005 totally mature comment as well?

by Henman Bill Sat 16 Mar - 22:49

Surprised the gap between Ferrer and Del Potro is so large. I do still see Del Potro as the no 5 in theory, but after working his way quickly up to 10, 8, he has stalled in his progress for a while and isn't able to beat the top players. But a win against Murray here is definately progress.

4Ferrer, David (ESP) 6,665
5Nadal, Rafael (ESP) 6,105
6Berdych, Tomas (CZE) 4,740
7Del Potro, Juan Martin (ARG) 4,410

by socal1976 Sat 16 Mar - 22:50

A 35 year old agassi is comparable to 31 year Federer wow that doesn't say much for Roger.

by socal1976 Sat 16 Mar - 22:58

Chydremion wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
Chydremion wrote:Nadal, after 8 months of no playing, reaches final in each of his first four tournaments (potentially in each of his first five, six, or seven tournaments as claycourt season about to begin). What a strong era.

There is a thread for this you chydremion. Even your legendary wit can not diminish the grandeur of the 3 rolls royces of this era Nadal, Djoko, Murray. Fed had no great player to face at his best, his closest rivals were mere puppies in age and ability even at his very best and we all know that. That is why some of his fans are so desperate to convince us otherwise and lionize people like hewitt, Roddick, and Trans fats Dave. Who we all know were simply not very impressive compared to other greats.

Now let's compare your "rolls royce" era with 2005. The Federer of now is comparable with the Agassi of then. A talented, very succesful aging player, unfortunately a relic of the past. Still capable of brilliant tennis and big victories, but increasingly hindered by injuries. Djokovic is now playing first fidle, like Federer in 2005, with Nadal playing second fidle, just like he did in 2005. And if Murray is a rolls royce, then so were Hewitt and Roddick. Whatever might happen in the future, at the moment Murray still has only one slam so shouldn't be overhyped. And if you look at the "so-called mugs or agricultural players" that completed the top 10 in 2005, just look at this Indian Wells edition and you'll notice Tsonga and Berdych and (Mona)co aren't really doing better. I fail to see how this era is stronger than 2005.

Murray light years ahead of Roddick and post injury Hewitt, Hewitt 2005 was not the same hewitt of 2002 or 2001. But lets talk eras on the eras thread this is the match thread.

by **JuliusHMarx** Sat 16 Mar - 23:00

Red wrote:I had a slight feeling Julius was trolling all along; now confirmed.
Wonder whether Lags was trolling with the 2005 totally mature comment as well?

I figured one good troll deserved another Red Smile

by Henman Bill Sat 16 Mar - 23:05

Interesting that the Djoko match the crowd looks about 80-90% full, for Rafa looked about 95-99% full.

by Jahu Sat 16 Mar - 23:09

Yep, he'll never be loved.

by Jahu Sat 16 Mar - 23:18

Never seen Delpo slice so much, make Dolgopolov seem a rare slicer.

by The Special Juan Sat 16 Mar - 23:18

They all came to see Berdych, HB. Now that he is not there, they left. True story!! (maybe)

by Jahu Sat 16 Mar - 23:22

Delpo takes second set, much better play then first set from him. Djoko crumbling (hopefully).

by Silver Sat 16 Mar - 23:22

JMDP takes the set. Well done on making this a contest, sir.

by summerblues Sat 16 Mar - 23:32

Nole breaks early in the third. I do not think Delpo can come back from this Crying or Very sad

by Jahu Sat 16 Mar - 23:43

Come on Delpo, get a grip. This match is done it seems, Djoko to be rolled over by Nadal tomorrow.

by User 774433 Sat 16 Mar - 23:44

No chance for Nadal tomorrow.

Anyway, if this type of tennis is too boring for you guys, and you prefer more attacking and cutting edge tennis, you should definitely check this link out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEvq8ybeyzg

by **laverfan** Sat 16 Mar - 23:45

Like H-n, I will stick my neck out and say Nadal wins tomorrow in three.

by **laverfan** Sat 16 Mar - 23:48

Red wrote:No chance for Nadal tomorrow.

Anyway, if this type of tennis is too boring for you guys, and you prefer more attacking and cutting edge tennis, you should definitely check this link out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEvq8ybeyzg

Pushniacki (to steal someone else's moniker for Woz) at her best. Laugh

I would also suggest seeing the original - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0Jmi739lvM

by Jahu Sat 16 Mar - 23:49

Delpo brakes back, come on boy.

by LuvSports! Sat 16 Mar - 23:49

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