PGA Tour: "Arnold Palmer Invitational" etc: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).Before we move up Interstate 4 from the course that the Pros consider the best they play in Florida to the course they rate the worst, let's have a look back at last week's Tampa Bay Classic, at Innisbrook's Copperhead Course. Kevin Streelman became the fifth first-time winner on Tour with a marvellous final nine holes which trumped Boo Weekley's best-of-the-week 63.
Streelman beat a good field to secure his maiden victory the right way, with birdies on two tough par-3's and brave, straight-down-the-middle drives on the "Snake Pit's" two par fours.

2).But who is Kevin Streelman? He's 34, middle-aged for a first-time winner, has collected $7M in official prize-winnings as he enjoys his sixth season on Tour, and won a cool $1M as the inaugural winner of the Kodak Challenge in 2009. Despite bursting on the scene in San Diego (twice, as he was joint first-round leader at the Torrey Pines US Open) in 2008, when he led after 36 holes and was grouped with E.T.Woods for Round 3 before fading, his only podium finishes before Tampa were third places in golfing hotbeds of Cancun, Puerto Rico and New Jersey.
Now he's a Tour Champion and the sky's the limit for someone who's always been much more than a journeyman and, by all accounts, one of the nicer guys on Tour. (Especially when he's not reading "the scriptures".)

3).He'll tee it up at Bay Hill this week and he's enjoyed a top ten finish here in the past. One bloke who won't be there is JB Holmes who has broken an ankle roller-blading and will be out of commission for three months. While this portends a pick-up in pace of play on Tour, it sadly suggests also that his brain surgery in 2011 wasn't as succesful as first thought. A terrible start to JB's season and now this.

4).This is one week where it's impossible not to speak of defending champion Tiger Woods. And of course he jump-started coverage of himself by posting mug-shots of Lyndsey and him all over social media and then requested privacy for the smiling couple. Good luck with that, especially following his week's canoodling with Lyndsey on his yacht "Privacy" (nothing if not ironic) during Doral. Las Vegas odds-makers are offering 4-1 against an engagement by January 2015 - I imagine Paddy Power and other reputable houses might offer rather different odds regarding rather different aspects of the joyful coming together of a sex addict and a depressive.

5).Speaking of Tiger, and why not, he was on the radio the other day likening the spotlight's glare on Rory and Wozza with that on himself and, you name her. He also revealed, in the aftermath of his (personal) record of 100 putts at Doral and putting tips from Stricker, that he had indeed offered tips to "Stricks" during last year's FedEx Play-Offs. 'Course, they then travelled together to Medinah and we know how that worked out, don't we. Needless to say he wasn't pressed on that but Thanks Tiger.

6).No tips on the putting green this week, Stricker is back in Wisconsin. But the fact is that Tiger has won here seven times and any consideration of likely winners has to include him. Which will mean that prices for the rest of the field should be generous, if only you can pick someone to beat the favourite. I certainly can't.

7).There's a terrific field on hand, no Luke or Rory, no Charl or Louis, but just about everyone else is in town. Strangely, and as noted last week, this has been a happy hunting ground for GB&I golfers with Martin Laird having won two years ago, Greg Owen incomprehensibly contriving to lose to Pampling in 2006, and decent best finishes by McDowell (2nd twice), Poulter (3rd last year), Rose (3rd in 2011), Davis (4th last year) and Westwood (5th in 2007). David Lynn makes his first visit and, at the other end of the scale, Ross Fisher was DQ'd after one round on his only appearance.
Maybe Justin Rose's turn? Wouldn't put any money on it but there seems to be something in Justin's DNA that has him winning this sort of event, especially after not doing so great coming in. Will playing with Tiger (and Ernie) in Rounds 1 and 2 help or hinder the English petal?

8).A strong web.com field is assembling in Louisiana for the first US-based tournament of the year, and Gary Christian and Russell Knox tee it up for Britain along with 18 Tour winners (and seven more are alternates).

9).While the old farts are in adjacent Mississippi, where Brian Henninger makes his first Champions Tour start. Not many Tour players can say their only two tournament wins were in Mississippi but Henninger certainly can. He was also the guy holding Ben Crenshaw's hand during the final round of Gentle Ben's post-Penick-funeral Masters win in 1995. Chapman, Mouland and Lyle will be there as well, Lyle presumably making his final (and futile) start before Augusta.

10).Easy to be cynical writing notes about the famous and wannabe famous, but much harder to express adequate admiration and appreciation for Stacy Lewis's relentless rise up the Rolex rankings to be Number One in the World.
Her difficulties with scoliosis, spinal fusion, years in a cast are well known, but she was also the first Curtis Cupper to win all five of her matches, at St.Andrews, in 2008, having already won a rain-shortened (and hence unofficial) LPGA event as an amateur. She qualified for the 2008 US Open which she led after three rounds before crumbling with a Sunday 78.
Lewis qualified for the LPGA Tour in the same Q-School as Michelle Wie, receiving far less publicity but winning the event by three shots, Wee Wie finishing six shots back.
Her career has maintained its upward trajectory including a 2011 Kraft Nabisco Championship and, without falderal or fanfare has become the first American since Beth Daniel (in 1994!!) to be LPGA Player of the Year in 2012. Great to see her go from strength to strength, even as she and her caddie go over the Rules Book regarding etiquette in a bunker.
A credit to the LPGA Tour and one of many good reasons why the Tour seems to have bottomed out and is on the rise again.

Sergio goes Tin Cup, climbs a tree, and withdraws.

Tiger's greatness sealed s_r's fate kwini. Will they get it finished today?

Typical Garcia.....disgraceful attitude...Luckily for the game, Harrington beat him in the two majors he got closest too!

Thanks to the storm we're getting to relive all the shots that Tiger and Fowler, most likely cos he's playing with Tiger, have hit so far. Wonder how many times they will repeat if the golf doesn't restart soon.

incont:
Sunset at 7.40 p.m. so they should finish provided they can resume by, say, 4 o'clock.

They said yesterday that Sergio was struggling - and that was before he tried to play out of the water in front of #16. No excuse for w/d'ing though.

Cheers kwini, hope someone can at least make Tonto work for the victory, most likely Bradley at this point

Anyone seen the picture of Nine Chins on the PGA App? Hilarious.

Who takes these pictures? The smile is as sincere as an air hostess'

Tiger!!!

A fine start. Great to see.

Could do with finishing this tonight for Tiger to bank me 70 quid, i think this is the best he's played since early 2008. Hope we can get started again soon.

Play is cancelled for today . So anticlimactic...

Play resumes at 10.00 in the morning, no more fun tonight.

Is the tavistock cup tomorrow?

Not any more!

Who cares?

Stay of execution for super!

Super - Don't lose hope, lots of time still!

Garcia? Hope it's really something and not just a sore tooth.

Don't know if Sergio jarred his legs when he jumped out of the tree, not the most athletic landing. Wonderful shot from the tree though!
He's not the first to walk off the course and he's not going to be the last. 13 months ago it was E.T. summoning a cart to make it look good, probably more wd's than most per tournament played.

In the absence of Y.E.Yang I reckon the only one with the fortitude to stop Tiger is John Huh. These guys are pretty fortunate with what will be a dramatic change in conditions - let's never hear them complain about the wrong side of the draw again!

Think he got leaf-burn from swinging around in the tree.

poulter is going to be livid tonight..

3 over through 6 and 12 holes to play. He would rather be on a plane home ..

Anyway- We wont see this lad give up!!

He lives in Orlando so it'd be a pretty short flight!

Did any reporter ever confirm when Rory's tooth was extracted? Poor lad.

Bad luck Sergio. Let me offer a thought: Don't play golf from trees.

SmithersJones wrote:He lives in Orlando so it'd be a pretty short flight!

Well you never know with Poults- he might decide to buy a chopper for the crack of it..

Have to agree with Poults though, they saw the weather predictions, 2 tee early start and it would all be done and dusted.

Not sure what has happened to Justin, I thought he had shook the old habits after his wins. However the cancellation could do him wonders, he was woeful the first few holes. If he can make this par putt on the 3rd it might be the kick up the proverbial he needs.

As much as I would love that I can still see Tiger winning by several shots. Thank goodness I will be at work so I can't hear the American commentators rattle on about him again.

Blistering - Rose has been like this every tourny this year!

Well in contention-0 then fading. Hopefully this wont get in to his mind to much

It irritates me immensely when Tiger strolls to victory while all around crumble. I expected better of Rose, but he seems to be worse than the septics (he left the par putt 2 inches short and then threw his putter in disgust as the horn sounded).

What I don't understand is why more of them don't follow Tiger's game plan. Make 4 on the par 5s and the rest of the course will take care of itself. It's not like they don't hit it as far as he does, so how come his par 5 scoring is so much better than just about everyone else?

The longer the hole the tougher it is..

The better players do better on them.

Just remember that in donalds year(2011) he was top on birding par 5's/
He hardly hit any of themin 2- he just got up and down from apporx 100 yards every time..

Its not about your length. Its about the holes length. And the longer it is the tougher it is to score low..

Sorry if that sounds patronizing lol..Not trying to be..

nonsense mysti, par 5s are generally easier to birdie than par 4s unless they're 600 yards plus

Oakey, . A longer hole isn't necessarily harder at all. I have far more birdies and eagles on par 5's than on par 4's and 3's. You can also get away with a bad shot on a par five and still make par, which would be much more damaging on a par 4 or 3.
A par 4 of 440-460 would usually be much harder than a 520-580 yard par 5 because it requires two good shots to get to the green. You could hit a 560 yard par 5 green with 3 Five Irons.

But there was a perfect example in the first round. He and Rose playing together, both went for the 12th in two. The pin was hard right, Justin missed it right and so could only make 5. Tiger made sure his miss was on the left, got it up and down (admittedly only thanks to a 25 footer but the point is he played the hole better). It's not like Rose was hitting 3 wood full out and so couldn't control where he might miss, he just got too aggressive and paid the price. Westwood does this all the time - again on the 12th this week, he bunkered his drive, still went for the green and just hit the front. The flag was back left, and he'd already 3 putted 10. Sure enough, he walks off with a 5 on his card. If he'd laid up chances are he'd have got his pitch closer than he managed with his long putt. It really isn't rocket science, and I really don't buy the idea that they're not as capable as Woods of playing the longer holes well.

barragan wrote:nonsense mysti, par 5s are generally easier to birdie than par 4s unless they're 600 yards plus

Barragan- forget par.. think numbers

super_realist wrote:Oakey, . A longer hole isn't necessarily harder at all. I have far more birdies and eagles on par 5's than on par 4's and 3's. You can also get away with a bad shot on a par five and still make par, which would be much more damaging on a par 4 or 3.
A par 4 of 440-460 would usually be much harder than a 520-580 yard par 5 because it requires two good shots to get to the green. You could hit a 560 yard par 5 green with 3 Five Irons.

Again. forget par. think numbers. 80% of my birdies are on par 5's- but my average score on a par 5 is higher than par 4's.

The better the golfer the better he will play harder holes(forget pars)

mystiroakey wrote:Blistering - Rose has been like this every tourny this year!

He hasn't been outside the top25 since missing the cut in one of the Fedex playoffs though which isn't bad going as he played a lot of the late season events.

I still maintain Rose raises his game when paired with quality players. He needed to be in the final group to worry Tiger, it was the only way he would get close.

Bliustering- Rose has been seriously consistant this year. He has been in contention every single event - then flaked out.

mystiroakey wrote:

super_realist wrote:Oakey, . A longer hole isn't necessarily harder at all. I have far more birdies and eagles on par 5's than on par 4's and 3's. You can also get away with a bad shot on a par five and still make par, which would be much more damaging on a par 4 or 3.
A par 4 of 440-460 would usually be much harder than a 520-580 yard par 5 because it requires two good shots to get to the green. You could hit a 560 yard par 5 green with 3 Five Irons.

Again. forget par. think numbers. 80% of my birdies are on par 5's- but my average score on a par 5 is higher than par 4's.

The better the golfer the better he will play harder holes(forget pars)

DOn't know what you are trying to say? Are you saying a better player will approach a harder hole better?

You can't say a hole is harder due to it's length when the scores that come out of longer holes make it appear that they play easier. Why forget par? GOlf is all about getting the lowest score, and I always approach a par 5 knowing that a par 5 represents a birdie opportunity

Its very clear what i am saying.

Forget pars..

I approach a par 5 trying to score a 4- birdie is just a word.

Not sure how to explain this concept to you.

I will try.

par 3's have the lowest averge score- even though they will average a highish over/under par score
par 4's are the second on the list. The average score on this hole will be higher than a par 3 , yet lower than a par 5. etc etc.

Only pretty average golfers will asess a hole based on par only. You should allways base it on conditions. I play many par 5's like par 4's. I play some par 4's like par 3's.

Sometimes. In extreme weather and length of hole even I have to approach a par 3 like a par 4, same goes for a 4 into a 5..

All pros have to do the same.. This is the simplistics of course management SR.. But this is taking us away from the obvious point.

If we talk about the holes hardness being about what its average score is (not over or under par) just REAL NUMBERS. then the hardest holes are par 5's.

And the better the golfer the better he/she will score on the longer holes- be that par 5's or long par 4's

It isn't remotely clear what you are saying.

So in what way is a par 5 harder then? In my opinion they are easier because they present more option. A good drive sets up the opportunity to hit it in two, a less good drive can set up a shot to leave a perfect distance in?

I don't get it, or why the par should be irrelevant. and by what criteria is a par 5 harder?

Blistering,
Surely Justin Rose missed his par putt seconds before the horn sounded. Bogey, tho' he might not have had time to tap in - he looked furious when play was stopped.

Its very clear what i am saying.

Forget pars..

I approach a par 5 trying to score a 4- birdie is just a word.

Not sure how to explain this concept to you.

I will try.

par 3's have the lowest averge score- even though they will average a highish over/under par score
par 4's are the second on the list. The average score on this hole will be higher than a par 3 , yet lower than a par 5. etc etc.

Only pretty average golfers will asess a hole based on par only. You should allways base it on conditions. I play many par 5's like par 4's. I play some par 4's like par 3's.

Sometimes. In extreme weather and length of hole even I have to approach a par 3 like a par 4, same goes for a 4 into a 5..

All pros have to do the same.. This is the simplistics of course management SR.. But this is taking us away from the obvious point.

If we talk about the holes hardness being about what its average score is (not over or under par) just REAL NUMBERS. then the hardest holes are par 5's.

And the better the golfer the better he/she will score on the longer holes- be that par 5's or long par 4's

"I don't get it, or why the par should be irrelevant. and by what criteria is a par 5 harder? "

average score is higher.. How is this hard to work out

You seem locked into pars. Think about the hole you face- not the par. As i said before- The basics of course management.. Which you make out you are the king of.

Real numbers don't represent whether a hole is harder or not at all. Par, length, Stroke Index don't either.
Hole design, ground conditions, hazards, green contour, required carry and weather do.

A par 3 could average 4.2 and a par 5 5.2, that doesn't make the par 5 harder just because it's a higher number. Stokes per yardage is actually much less on the par five.

You don't need to lecture me on course management either, I'm a plus player in that respect. Your assessement of hole difficulty just doesn't add up and is too simplified.

It's harder to hit a treble 20 on a dart board from 7 feet than it is to hit a single 20 from 11 feet, it's all about the aspects which make the hole, nothing to do with length.

Simplified. You cant even understand it pal.
If you can forget pars (which everyone should do when trying to shoot a low score) then the only measure we have for difficulty is the average shots it takes to play a hole..

And I am talking about it in context to the conversation we are having

Better players do better on longer holes. As tiger today and Rory in 2012 have recently showed which is backed up with stats. ALso Luke donald in 2011 was top of 4's made on 5's(even though he isnt the longest hitter)

Yoiur arguing symatics and in hindsight maybe I should have made my original point clearer...

Conditions should be perfect for scoring at Bay Hill today, temps in the high 60's and breezy, nothing severe forecast. Dry and sunny.

Guys who played most of their Sunday round in high, blustering winds etc must be livid. Poulter spot on with his comments, bad weather was forecast ever since the week began.

I get what you are saying, but you aren't comparing like with like.
Your premise takes nothing into account that might actually make a hole difficult (or easier) . It only takes the score, and that isn't enough to make a judgement. You'd probably have to do something like strokes/100 yards to make a valid comparison if you only insist on distance being the only criteria of difficulty.

You say par doesn't matter, but your hole argument is based on stats gleamed from how players do to par.

Well I was initially trying to explain that the top golfer's normally have a very good records on par 5 averages.

This goes throughout the game as well. If we took our' part time golfing mate' out for a game he is going to get alot closer to us on a pitch and putt than he is on an 18 hole golf course.

Pros are not stupid- they will play the hole as the hole is layed out. Short hitters or long hitters alike can be top of of the par 5 average.. The original posters question was why cant other golfers concentrate on 5's and let the rest of the holes just come into play. And that many can hit it as long as woods so whats there problem.

the point is that woods is just better everywhere. But on longer holes better golfers shine through alot more.. Because they are on the whole harder to shoot 'low' on(not make birdies or eagles- that offcourse is easier)

The pros arnt stupid- they are not approaching these holes incorrectly. There are just not as good..(well the tiger factor may be rearing its ugly head again- but that will hit the others on all holes - not just 5's)

Still doesn't make a hole harder simply because the average score on it might be higher.

Your arguing symatics SR..

Its pointless.

switch the word harder with' higher averge score holes' if you prefer.

That says even less

Higher average score just tells you that on average the score on it is higher, it tells you nothing about the hole other than the average score or the comparison to any other.
Average score isn't a sensible way to measure whether a hole is harder.

What exactly are you saying SR?

All things equal, the longer a hole is the more shots are required - thus the more "difficult" it is.

Problem is just that not all things are equal. Greens are usually smaller on par 5's, layouts often different. But not always.

It is also assumed that longer shots are more difficult than shorter. Which is true to some extend, unless your name is Lee Westwood. But not if you compare irons with woods. Therefore nothing can be concluded here either.

Therefore it is very difficult to conclude whether shorter or longer holes are the "easiest".

But IMO the reason why better players do well on par 5's (and long holes), is probably because they have a better short game, not a better long game. The short game in and around greens comes more into play on par 5's, as most players more often will have short-ish 3rd shots, either as long putts, chips around green or pitches.