Blindside flanker choices for the Lions tour to Australia

by maestegmafia Sat 30 Mar 2013, 1:49 pm

Six nations is done. We are a year on since I last held one of these polls and the long term aim was to compare what we selected a year out, a month out and the final squad.

You can pick one player only as your first choice.

I think I have grabbed most of the names in the hat, though my apologies if anyone you consider worthy has been forgotten, if you ask nicely then I am sure one of our excellent moderators might take the time to be kind enough to offer their much valued assistance.

The players included either showed in the Six Nations squads or have been regularly talked of as prospects on the various threads on here.

I have a feeling this poll should be close...

There are a number of players included who play both Openside and Blindside flanker or even all three. If you think that you would like to see a player at 6 vote here.

If you want to see them at 7 or at eight, you will have to wait until that poll is launched.

Looseheads - https://www.606v2.com/t42452-loosehead-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Hookers - https://www.606v2.com/t42471-hooker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Tightheads - https://www.606v2.com/t42486-tighthead-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Lock No. 4 - https://www.606v2.com/t42501-number-4-lock-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1956467

Lock no. 5 - https://www.606v2.com/t42502-number-5-lock-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Openside Flanker - https://www.606v2.com/t42515-ospenside-flanker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1956975

Number 8 - https://www.606v2.com/t42518-number-eight-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1958144

Scrumhalf - https://www.606v2.com/t42531-scrumhalf-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Flyhalf - https://www.606v2.com/t42539-flyhalf-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1958609

by flyhalffactory Sat 30 Mar 2013, 1:57 pm

Maesteg

I am assuming this is the list of 6 and 7, if that's the case you have missed out Rennie and Barclay, if not then Sorry

by maestegmafia Sat 30 Mar 2013, 2:02 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:Maesteg

I am assuming this is the list of 6 and 7, if that's the case you have missed out Rennie and Barclay, if not then

Right above your post, in bold letters all is explained...

I think it also says Blindeside Flanker in the title to make it clear what the poll is about....!

I considered adding Barclay as he has played Blindside. But not internationally for a while.

by flyhalffactory Sat 30 Mar 2013, 2:23 pm

ok sounds good to me

Not sure Warburton should be in there..... even though he had a really good game against England, and Lydiate injured is very similar to Barclay who lets be honest along with Rennie have been the only flankers apart from McCaw who have done a number on Pocock

by maestegmafia Sat 30 Mar 2013, 2:26 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:ok sounds good to me

Not sure Warburton should be in there..... even though he had a really good game against England, and Lydiate injured is very similar to Barclay who lets be honest along with Rennie have been the only flankers apart from McCaw who have done a number on Pocock

I think Warburton played Blindside in three games this championship. Him at six with Tips at seven was in many peoples opinion the ultimate Flanker combination we saw this winter and likely to be the Lions choice. Hense I selected him.

He will be in the Openside poll too, so you can pick him there if you prefer...

by theslosty Sat 30 Mar 2013, 2:32 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:ok sounds good to me

Not sure Warburton should be in there..... even though he had a really good game against England, and Lydiate injured is very similar to Barclay who lets be honest along with Rennie have been the only flankers apart from McCaw who have done a number on Pocock

Not that relevant, Pocock is injured. On the other hand, SOB was MOTM against an Australia without Pocock...

by maestegmafia Sat 30 Mar 2013, 2:43 pm

theslosty wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:ok sounds good to me

Not sure Warburton should be in there..... even though he had a really good game against England, and Lydiate injured is very similar to Barclay who lets be honest along with Rennie have been the only flankers apart from McCaw who have done a number on Pocock

Not that relevant, Pocock is injured. On the other hand, SOB was MOTM against an Australia without Pocock...

When was that? At the RWC two years ago?

by flyhalffactory Sat 30 Mar 2013, 2:54 pm

theslosty wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:ok sounds good to me

Not sure Warburton should be in there..... even though he had a really good game against England, and Lydiate injured is very similar to Barclay who lets be honest along with Rennie have been the only flankers apart from McCaw who have done a number on Pocock

Not that relevant, Pocock is injured. On the other hand, SOB was MOTM against an Australia without Pocock...

Not relevant!!........ Oz play with a Pocock type openside, and its going to hard pitches which will be ideal for Rennie. When did SOB win MOM?

by maestegmafia Sat 30 Mar 2013, 2:56 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
theslosty wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:ok sounds good to me

Not sure Warburton should be in there..... even though he had a really good game against England, and Lydiate injured is very similar to Barclay who lets be honest along with Rennie have been the only flankers apart from McCaw who have done a number on Pocock

Not that relevant, Pocock is injured. On the other hand, SOB was MOTM against an Australia without Pocock...

Not relevant!!........ Oz play with a Pocock type openside, and its going to hard pitches which will be ideal for Rennie. When did SOB win MOM?

Rennie is a good lad, but the pitches will equally benefit Tipuric and i think he is a better player than Rennie. At the moment everything he touches turns to gold.

by maestegmafia Sat 30 Mar 2013, 2:56 pm

FHF Rennie is an option in the Openside vote

by flyhalffactory Sat 30 Mar 2013, 2:59 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
theslosty wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:ok sounds good to me

Not sure Warburton should be in there..... even though he had a really good game against England, and Lydiate injured is very similar to Barclay who lets be honest along with Rennie have been the only flankers apart from McCaw who have done a number on Pocock

Not that relevant, Pocock is injured. On the other hand, SOB was MOTM against an Australia without Pocock...

Not relevant!!........ Oz play with a Pocock type openside, and its going to hard pitches which will be ideal for Rennie. When did SOB win MOM?

Rennie is a good lad, but the pitches will equally benefit Tipuric and i think he is a better player than Rennie. At the moment everything he touches turns to gold.

Tuperic has been superb, but an on form Rennie is a country mile ahead of any openside in the NH, he destroyed Pocock who was in his prime over the entire 80 mins, as good as Tuperic is I doubt if he had the tools over the entire match to do that...... obviously that just my opinion though, and injuries can take some of the armoury away

by flyhalffactory Sat 30 Mar 2013, 3:03 pm

maestegmafia wrote:FHF Rennie is an option in the Openside vote

Saw that Maesteg.......... ok good poll by the way

by RuggerBoy Sat 30 Mar 2013, 3:24 pm

Watching Dan Lydiate against the Scarlets today, getting straight back into his chopping mode he's got to be in with a shout. Top tackler of the first half as well.

The Dragons are holding the Scarlets at 10 apiece. God knows how? especially after a classic try by George North put the Scarlets 10 nil up.

by maestegmafia Sat 30 Mar 2013, 5:51 pm

Kelly Brown is roaring away into the lead here. I know he has had a lot of support but I am surprised to see him ahead of Robshaw...?

by Shifty Sat 30 Mar 2013, 6:40 pm

Ryan Jones Smile

by GLove39 Sat 30 Mar 2013, 8:35 pm

I went for Kelly Brown, quite simply he gives massive work load, 2nd top tackler (only 1 less than Wood) in the 6Nations and also the 2nd best for turnovers. His mighty eyebrows will become the stuff of Australian nightmares!

by bedfordwelsh Sat 30 Mar 2013, 8:40 pm

If Lydiates fitness gets back to anywhere near the top then for me he tours without shadow of a doubt.

The coaches know what he can do and will have a few midweek tour games to really get upto speed.

by maestegmafia Sat 30 Mar 2013, 8:43 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:If Lydiates fitness gets back to anywhere near the top then for me he tours without shadow of a doubt.

The coaches know what he can do and will have a few midweek tour games to really get upto speed.

How did he go today?

by bedfordwelsh Sat 30 Mar 2013, 8:45 pm

Looked very good for the 60 minutes he was on, back to his old chopping style tackle without much drop in standard, did seem to be blowing from his harris when switched but 20 minutes more than last week.

by theslosty Sat 30 Mar 2013, 8:46 pm

I think that we should go with a traditional ball carrying six, and although SOB is the best in this regard, Brown would be my pick on current form.
Lydiate is very good at what he does but a bit limited for me. Robshaw is also unlucky to miss out but he is unfortunate to being a excellent player but not being the best individual in any position IMO.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 30 Mar 2013, 8:48 pm

Is the 6 more of a ball carrier I thought he was supposed to be mor the defensive rock which Lydiate certainly is.

by theslosty Sat 30 Mar 2013, 8:55 pm

Regardless of tradition I would pick Tipuric at 7 and Faletau at 8, tow very athletic players but I think another ball-carrying option is needed at six. Brown and SOB make plenty of tackles anyway, albeit not to the effectiveness of Lydiate.

by flyhalffactory Sat 30 Mar 2013, 9:07 pm

You cant have THREE backrow ball carriers, against an Oz front five and a Pocock style openside which they favour, Plus the blindside will still have to be an enforcer, someone who makes the big hits. You saw today how the Blues negated Hibbard and Tuperic with a low trajectory and mobile front five. If Lydiate isn't fit then you have to go with Brown, immense in the breakdown and his tackle count is second to none

by BamBam Sat 30 Mar 2013, 9:38 pm

Wood is the best blindside available, if Morgan hadn't got injured we would have seen that throughout the 6 nations

by maestegmafia Sat 30 Mar 2013, 10:23 pm

BamBam wrote:Wood is the best blindside available, if Morgan hadn't got injured we would have seen that throughout the 6 nations

Tom Wood looked pretty good pre injury but he hasnt returned as good as when he left. I rated him highly but he hasn't impressed at Saints or for England

by maestegmafia Sun 31 Mar 2013, 8:17 am

Kelly Brown looking certain to win this poll

by maestegmafia Sun 31 Mar 2013, 1:55 pm

The Pack so far is looking like this

Cian Healy 41% 27
Rory Best 47% 28
Adam Jones 61% 30
Geoff Parling 15.4% 17
AW Jones 15.4% 17
Kelly Brown 28% 12
Justin Tipuric 43% 13
John Beattie 39% 12

by ChequeredJersey Sun 31 Mar 2013, 5:49 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
BamBam wrote:Wood is the best blindside available, if Morgan hadn't got injured we would have seen that throughout the 6 nations

Tom Wood looked pretty good pre injury but he hasnt returned as good as when he left. I rated him highly but he hasn't impressed at Saints or for England

Tbf for England he was playing in specialist position in which he has little experience. SL doing that to players seems a tad unfair on them to me

by maestegmafia Sun 31 Mar 2013, 5:59 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
BamBam wrote:Wood is the best blindside available, if Morgan hadn't got injured we would have seen that throughout the 6 nations

Tom Wood looked pretty good pre injury but he hasnt returned as good as when he left. I rated him highly but he hasn't impressed at Saints or for England

Tbf for England he was playing in specialist position in which he has little experience. SL doing that to players seems a tad unfair on them to me

I agree but he has been on the Flanks for Saints and not impressed as much as before he injured his toe. Nasty injury that can really change your career. I know local lad Duncan Jones who props for the Ospreys struggled with a foot injury for the last five years.

by maestegmafia Mon 01 Apr 2013, 1:17 pm

SYNOPSIS OF THE POLL SO FAR...

Forwards

Cian Healy 41% 31
Rory Best 49% 37
Adam Jones 62% 36
Richie Gray 16% 22
Geoff Parling 14% 23
Chris Robshaw 27% 16
Justin Tipuric 44% 22
John Beattie 37% 22 (Toby Faletau 1 vote short)

Backs

Ben Youngs 54% 27
Jonny Sexton 44% 18
Jamie Roberts is tied with Billy Twelvetrees 31% 4
Manu Tuilagi 50% 7 (Brian O'Driscoll is 1 vote short)

by theslosty Mon 01 Apr 2013, 6:54 pm

It's getting tight...

by flyhalffactory Mon 01 Apr 2013, 7:25 pm

theslosty wrote:It's getting tight...

As the actress said to the bishop

by maestegmafia Mon 01 Apr 2013, 8:12 pm

This was always going to be one of the contentious positions...

Loving the race to see who gets it.

by maestegmafia Tue 02 Apr 2013, 6:05 pm

The poll is open until a week before the squad is announced, there is still a decent amount of rugby to be played and peoples thoughts and views may change. As it stands currently these are the Squad choices by the mob that contributes to 606V2.

I dont know the make up or how many he really will pick so i am just running with top three options...

Loosehead Prop 89 votes so far

Cian Healy 39
Ryan Grant 20
Gethin Jenkins 15

Hooker 92 votes so far

Rory Best 45
Richard Hibbard 21
Tom Youngs 11

Tighthead 74 votes so far

Adam Jones 47
Dan Cole 19
Euan Murray 4

Locks 144 votes so far over the two polls so averaging 72 Votes

Geoff Parling 29
Richie Gray 29
AWJ 21
Ian Evans 20

Blindeside Flankers 78 votes so far

Chris Robshaw 19
Kelly Brown 18
Sean O'Brien 17

Openside Flankers 74 votes so far

Justin Tipuric 33
Sam Warburton 14
Chris Robshaw 13 (leading the Blindside option)
Ross Rennie 8 (Next best after Robshaw)

Number Eight 73 votes so far

Toby Faletau 28
John Beattie 26
Ben Morgan 10

Scrumhalf 73 votes so far

Ben Youngs 38
Mike Phillips 20
Greig Laidlaw 10

Flyhalf 59 votes so far

Jonny Sexton 30
Owen Farrell 13
Dan Biggar 6

Inside Centre 53 votes so far

Billy Twelvetrees 11
Jonathan Davies 13 (Also 3rd in the outside centre Poll)
Matt Scott 11
Jamie Roberts & Luke Marshall 7 (If we were to consider JD2 at outside)

Outside Centre

Brian O'Driscoll 22
Manu Tuilagi 22
Jonathan Davies 9

Right Winger 44 Votes so far

Sean Maitland 22
Alex Cuthbert 11
Christian Wade 7

Left Winger 45 votes so far

George North 21
Tim Visser 8
Simon Zebo 5

Fullback 59 votes so far

Stuart Hogg 25
Leigh Halfpenny 22
Rob Keaney 7

by dragonbreath Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:56 am

Frankly 1% for Ryan is insulting and demonstrates that many on here do not understand the requisite qualities of the BS. He is an excellent BS in great form. He is also very experienced and a great leader and captain.

I despair picard

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 03 Apr 2013, 11:01 am

dragonbreath wrote:Frankly 1% for Ryan is insulting and demonstrates that many on here do not understand the requisite qualities of the BS. He is an excellent BS in great form. He is also very experienced and a great leader and captain.

I despair

I assume you are talking about Ryan Jones? He is a fantastic player Dragon, but the competition in the backrow is immense. Certainly at blindside Flanker. His competition includes, Wood, Robshaw, Brown, SOB (out of prefered position) and some fans still fancy Lydiate to travel.

Wood and Kelly Brown were the top 2 tacklers in the 6N and Brown was joint turnover winner. The competition for the backrow is extreme.

It's no disgrace that he doesn't have many votes when you consider who he is up against. Across the whole backrow there are dozens of possible game winning combinations.

by bluestonevedder Wed 03 Apr 2013, 11:13 am

Such a shame Wood was wasted at 8 for 4 of the games. I reckon had he continued at 6, he would be a seriously considered contender on the boards.

For me, Tips has to be the starting 7. I reckon Brown would be a good accompany to him, but also Robshaw. Throw in the awesome O'Brien, and we've got a real selection head ache. Glad I'm not Gatland.

Today, I'm feeling like a 6. O'Brien 7. Tipuric 8. Beattie backrow.

by beshocked Wed 03 Apr 2013, 11:17 am

Glad Kelly Brown is doing well in this poll because he's been so consistently strong throughout the season. Another opportunity to showcase his talents in the HC.

Quite surprised that an injured player (Lydiate) has so many votes.

The best ball carrying blindside is SOB but if you want a tackling machine then in my opinion Brown is the obvious choice though Wood would also be a decent option.

Surprised Wood only has 1 vote. I wouldn't say he's far off SOB or Brown at all.

Depending on the balance of the backrow I would pick either SOB or Brown at 6.

I don't consider Robshaw as a blindside until he plays 6 more often.

by dragonbreath Wed 03 Apr 2013, 1:42 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:Frankly 1% for Ryan is insulting and demonstrates that many on here do not understand the requisite qualities of the BS. He is an excellent BS in great form. He is also very experienced and a great leader and captain.

I despair

I assume you are talking about Ryan Jones? He is a fantastic player Dragon, but the competition in the backrow is immense. Certainly at blindside Flanker. His competition includes, Wood, Robshaw, Brown, SOB (out of prefered position) and some fans still fancy Lydiate to travel.

Wood and Kelly Brown were the top 2 tacklers in the 6N and Brown was joint turnover winner. The competition for the backrow is extreme.

It's no disgrace that he doesn't have many votes when you consider who he is up against. Across the whole backrow there are dozens of possible game winning combinations.

Exactly who is he up against??? Wood; couple of caps couple of good games. He played out of position for most of 6 nations, so we only have die hard England fans word for his quality at this level. Robshaw; workman like player, questionable leadership under pressure, SOB hot and cold, cold at the moment, Brown; not in Ryans class IMO

So, in short its all about opinion but in mine, none of the players you have named are even in the same class as Ryan Jones.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 03 Apr 2013, 1:50 pm

dragonbreath wrote: Brown; not in Ryans class IMO

So, in short its all about opinion but in mine, none of the players you have named are even in the same class as Ryan Jones.

Just because you haven't seen Brown play doesn't mean he is not in Ryan Jones' class. 2nd top Tackler in the 6N, joint top at turning over opposition ball and not having a single bad game for club or country all season and he isn't in the same class as Ryan Jones? Brown has been immense for Sarries and IMO is a cornerstone of their fantasticly abrasive pack.

Jones is a good player but Wood and Brown are just as good if not better, also they are currently not injured.

Question : Would Ryan Jones get a game with a fully fit and form Welsh pack?

Answer : A backrow of Lydiate, Tipuric and Faletau and Warbs on the bench would indicate NO.

by dragonbreath Wed 03 Apr 2013, 2:28 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote: Brown; not in Ryans class IMO

So, in short its all about opinion but in mine, none of the players you have named are even in the same class as Ryan Jones.

Just because you haven't seen Brown play doesn't mean he is not in Ryan Jones' class. 2nd top Tackler in the 6N, joint top at turning over opposition ball and not having a single bad game for club or country all season and he isn't in the same class as Ryan Jones? Brown has been immense for Sarries and IMO is a cornerstone of their fantasticly abrasive pack.

Jones is a good player but Wood and Brown are just as good if not better, also they are currently not injured.

Question : Would Ryan Jones get a game with a fully fit and form Welsh pack?

Answer : A backrow of Lydiate, Tipuric and Faletau and Warbs on the bench would indicate NO.

Firstly with regard to Brown. To be second top tackler while playing in a side that has based its success upon letting the other team have the ball and defend is surely to be the least you would expect. More surprised he wasn't top. Bit of a slacker Very Happy

Stats damn lies and stats etc etc. Stats need a context mate.

Secondly the fact that Ryan would not get a place in a Lydiate Tipuric/Warburton Falatau back row is irrelevant (I accept that you are probably right but would not neccesarily agree with his omission), he is still better than Robshaw, Wood, Brown and SOB. Not only they would fail to displace any of those three they would not be on the bench either.

Individual contributions are important, but Ryan is the glue that binds the forward effort together ensuring that the sum of the whole is greater than the sum of the individual contributions. That is why he is better than those you have named, he galvanises those around him. IMO we would not have recovered from Ireland without his willingness to do the dirty stuff and leadership.

by bluestonevedder Wed 03 Apr 2013, 2:37 pm

dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote: Brown; not in Ryans class IMO

So, in short its all about opinion but in mine, none of the players you have named are even in the same class as Ryan Jones.

Just because you haven't seen Brown play doesn't mean he is not in Ryan Jones' class. 2nd top Tackler in the 6N, joint top at turning over opposition ball and not having a single bad game for club or country all season and he isn't in the same class as Ryan Jones? Brown has been immense for Sarries and IMO is a cornerstone of their fantasticly abrasive pack.

Jones is a good player but Wood and Brown are just as good if not better, also they are currently not injured.

Question : Would Ryan Jones get a game with a fully fit and form Welsh pack?

Answer : A backrow of Lydiate, Tipuric and Faletau and Warbs on the bench would indicate NO.

Firstly with regard to Brown. To be second top tackler while playing in a side that has based its success upon letting the other team have the ball and defend is surely to be the least you would expect. More surprised he wasn't top. Bit of a slacker Stats damn lies and stats etc etc. Stats need a context mate.

Secondly the fact that Ryan would not get a place in a Lydiate Tipuric/Warburton Falatau back row is irrelevant (I accept that you are probably right but would not neccesarily agree with his omission), he is still better than Robshaw, Wood, Brown and SOB. Not only they would fail to displace any of those three they would not be on the bench either.

Individual contributions are important, but Ryan is the glue that binds the forward effort together ensuring that the sum of the whole is greater than the sum of the individual contributions. That is why he is better than those you have named, he galvanises those around him. IMO we would not have recovered from Ireland without his willingness to do the dirty stuff and leadership.

Ha, that is laughable.

Your true intentions now become clear.

by dragonbreath Wed 03 Apr 2013, 3:24 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote: Brown; not in Ryans class IMO

So, in short its all about opinion but in mine, none of the players you have named are even in the same class as Ryan Jones.

Just because you haven't seen Brown play doesn't mean he is not in Ryan Jones' class. 2nd top Tackler in the 6N, joint top at turning over opposition ball and not having a single bad game for club or country all season and he isn't in the same class as Ryan Jones? Brown has been immense for Sarries and IMO is a cornerstone of their fantasticly abrasive pack.

Jones is a good player but Wood and Brown are just as good if not better, also they are currently not injured.

Question : Would Ryan Jones get a game with a fully fit and form Welsh pack?

Answer : A backrow of Lydiate, Tipuric and Faletau and Warbs on the bench would indicate NO.

Firstly with regard to Brown. To be second top tackler while playing in a side that has based its success upon letting the other team have the ball and defend is surely to be the least you would expect. More surprised he wasn't top. Bit of a slacker Stats damn lies and stats etc etc. Stats need a context mate.

Secondly the fact that Ryan would not get a place in a Lydiate Tipuric/Warburton Falatau back row is irrelevant (I accept that you are probably right but would not neccesarily agree with his omission), he is still better than Robshaw, Wood, Brown and SOB. Not only they would fail to displace any of those three they would not be on the bench either.

Individual contributions are important, but Ryan is the glue that binds the forward effort together ensuring that the sum of the whole is greater than the sum of the individual contributions. That is why he is better than those you have named, he galvanises those around him. IMO we would not have recovered from Ireland without his willingness to do the dirty stuff and leadership.

Ha, that is laughable.

Your true intentions now become clear.

Why laughable, what have any of those players achieved in comparison, In what head to head international game have any of those players dominated RJ, in fact, in what international game have these players led from the front and changed the course of that game though application and leadership? It is you my friend who is laughable laughing

All these couple of games, best thing ever players, come and go, I have seen so many of them. SOB is already a thing of the past and it is questionable if the others were / are anything in the first place. Class is permanent, and that is what Ryan Jones is.

by bluestonevedder Wed 03 Apr 2013, 3:29 pm

dragonbreath wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote: Brown; not in Ryans class IMO

So, in short its all about opinion but in mine, none of the players you have named are even in the same class as Ryan Jones.

Just because you haven't seen Brown play doesn't mean he is not in Ryan Jones' class. 2nd top Tackler in the 6N, joint top at turning over opposition ball and not having a single bad game for club or country all season and he isn't in the same class as Ryan Jones? Brown has been immense for Sarries and IMO is a cornerstone of their fantasticly abrasive pack.

Jones is a good player but Wood and Brown are just as good if not better, also they are currently not injured.

Question : Would Ryan Jones get a game with a fully fit and form Welsh pack?

Answer : A backrow of Lydiate, Tipuric and Faletau and Warbs on the bench would indicate NO.

Firstly with regard to Brown. To be second top tackler while playing in a side that has based its success upon letting the other team have the ball and defend is surely to be the least you would expect. More surprised he wasn't top. Bit of a slacker Stats damn lies and stats etc etc. Stats need a context mate.

Secondly the fact that Ryan would not get a place in a Lydiate Tipuric/Warburton Falatau back row is irrelevant (I accept that you are probably right but would not neccesarily agree with his omission), he is still better than Robshaw, Wood, Brown and SOB. Not only they would fail to displace any of those three they would not be on the bench either.

Individual contributions are important, but Ryan is the glue that binds the forward effort together ensuring that the sum of the whole is greater than the sum of the individual contributions. That is why he is better than those you have named, he galvanises those around him. IMO we would not have recovered from Ireland without his willingness to do the dirty stuff and leadership.

Ha, that is laughable.

Your true intentions now become clear.

Why laughable, what have any of those players achieved in comparison, In what head to head international game have any of those players dominated RJ, in fact, in what international game have these players led from the front and changed the course of that game though application and leadership? It is you my friend who is laughable

All these couple of games, best thing ever players, come and go, I have seen so many of them. SOB is already a thing of the past and it is questionable if the others were / are anything in the first place. Class is permanent, and that is what Ryan Jones is.

You're right. Ryan Jones is the only player in the history of the game of rugby to ever achieve anything, ever. Ever.

He is a class player no doubt, but so are the other 4 players you have mentioned, all for their own reasons. Difference is, the other 4 are all starters for their country. Jones is not a starter for Wales at the moment.

Since two of those 4 are also captains of their respective countries, I can guarantee you that they have changeed the course of a game through their application and leadership. Kelly Brown against Ireland was superb. Robshaw was excellent all tournament, picking up 2 MoM.

Get some perspective.

by ChequeredJersey Wed 03 Apr 2013, 3:31 pm

I think Ryan Jones is a good player and a possibility to Tour with the Lions, but I've never seen him boss a game either, whilst I have seen Robshaw basically prevent a mauling by SA all by himself in the breakdown and win 2 MOTMs this 6N. Ditto Brown. You are entitled to your opinion, Dragonbreath, and I agree that class players return to good form after time off form or injured. Just like Wood, Brown and Robshaw have done in the last 2 years. The galvanisation thing you mention is exactly the way that Robshaw (despite his decision making at times) and Brown lead and have been praised by people who know a lot more about International rugby (like those who have excelled at it) than I'm assuming you do. So your arguments don't really hold up. They seem to be in favour of the other players you say are worse than Jones, actually, unless I'm missing something or my logic isn't working today (hint: it is).

by ChequeredJersey Wed 03 Apr 2013, 3:33 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote: Brown; not in Ryans class IMO

So, in short its all about opinion but in mine, none of the players you have named are even in the same class as Ryan Jones.

Just because you haven't seen Brown play doesn't mean he is not in Ryan Jones' class. 2nd top Tackler in the 6N, joint top at turning over opposition ball and not having a single bad game for club or country all season and he isn't in the same class as Ryan Jones? Brown has been immense for Sarries and IMO is a cornerstone of their fantasticly abrasive pack.

Jones is a good player but Wood and Brown are just as good if not better, also they are currently not injured.

Question : Would Ryan Jones get a game with a fully fit and form Welsh pack?

Answer : A backrow of Lydiate, Tipuric and Faletau and Warbs on the bench would indicate NO.

Firstly with regard to Brown. To be second top tackler while playing in a side that has based its success upon letting the other team have the ball and defend is surely to be the least you would expect. More surprised he wasn't top. Bit of a slacker Stats damn lies and stats etc etc. Stats need a context mate.

Secondly the fact that Ryan would not get a place in a Lydiate Tipuric/Warburton Falatau back row is irrelevant (I accept that you are probably right but would not neccesarily agree with his omission), he is still better than Robshaw, Wood, Brown and SOB. Not only they would fail to displace any of those three they would not be on the bench either.

Individual contributions are important, but Ryan is the glue that binds the forward effort together ensuring that the sum of the whole is greater than the sum of the individual contributions. That is why he is better than those you have named, he galvanises those around him. IMO we would not have recovered from Ireland without his willingness to do the dirty stuff and leadership.

Ha, that is laughable.

Your true intentions now become clear.

Why laughable, what have any of those players achieved in comparison, In what head to head international game have any of those players dominated RJ, in fact, in what international game have these players led from the front and changed the course of that game though application and leadership? It is you my friend who is laughable

All these couple of games, best thing ever players, come and go, I have seen so many of them. SOB is already a thing of the past and it is questionable if the others were / are anything in the first place. Class is permanent, and that is what Ryan Jones is.

Great minds

You're right. Ryan Jones is the only player in the history of the game of rugby to ever achieve anything, ever. Ever.

He is a class player no doubt, but so are the other 4 players you have mentioned, all for their own reasons. Difference is, the other 4 are all starters for their country. Jones is not a starter for Wales at the moment.

Since two of those 4 are also captains of their respective countries, I can guarantee you that they have changeed the course of a game through their application and leadership. Kelly Brown against Ireland was superb. Robshaw was excellent all tournament, picking up 2 MoM.

Get some perspective.

by bluestonevedder Wed 03 Apr 2013, 3:35 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:I think Ryan Jones is a good player and a possibility to Tour with the Lions, but I've never seen him boss a game either, whilst I have seen Robshaw basically prevent a mauling by SA all by himself in the breakdown and win 2 MOTMs this 6N. Ditto Brown. You are entitled to your opinion, Dragonbreath, and I agree that class players return to good form after time off form or injured. Just like Wood, Brown and Robshaw have done in the last 2 years. The galvanisation thing you mention is exactly the way that Robshaw (despite his decision making at times) and Brown lead and have been praised by people who know a lot more about International rugby (like those who have excelled at it) than I'm assuming you do. So your arguments don't really hold up. They seem to be in favour of the other players you say are worse than Jones, actually, unless I'm missing something or my logic isn't working today (hint: it is).

by bedfordwelsh Wed 03 Apr 2013, 3:37 pm

I do think Jones will tour due to his experience, leadership of late and his ability to play back row (6 & 8) and 2nd row

by bazalicous Wed 03 Apr 2013, 7:00 pm

Sean O'Brien is the best 6 that's playing and fit right now. Ferris best in northern hemisphere but again unfortunate with injuries.
Lydiate is excellent too, as is Croft at times but both only getting back to fitness and gametime now.
I find it funny that I would be more likely to pick O'Brien at 6 or 8 than the position he more often than not gets put in, number 7.
My back row at current moment is 6.O'Brien 7.Tupuric 8.Heaslip

by bazalicous Wed 03 Apr 2013, 7:02 pm

O'Brien, Lydiate, Warburton, Tupuric, Robshaw, Heaslip and Falatau will all travel for me. Plus maybe Jones/Croft.

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