Tighthead choices for the Lions tour to Australia

Six nations is done. We are a year on since I last held one of these polls and the long term aim was to compare what we selected a year out, a month out and the final squad.

You can pick one player only as your first choice.

I think I have grabbed most of the names in the hat, though my apologies if anyone you consider worthy has been forgotten, if you ask nicely then I am sure one of our excellent moderators might take the time to be kind enough to offer their much valued assistance.

The players included either showed in the Six Nations squads or have been regularly talked of as prospects on the various threads on here.
Looseheads - https://www.606v2.com/t42452-loosehead-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Hookers - https://www.606v2.com/t42471-hooker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Lock No. 4 - https://www.606v2.com/t42501-number-4-lock-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1956467

Lock no. 5 - https://www.606v2.com/t42502-number-5-lock-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Blindside Flanker - https://www.606v2.com/t42514-blindside-flanker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Openside Flanker - https://www.606v2.com/t42515-ospenside-flanker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1956975

Number 8 - https://www.606v2.com/t42518-number-eight-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1958144

Scrumhalf - https://www.606v2.com/t42531-scrumhalf-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Flyhalf - https://www.606v2.com/t42539-flyhalf-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1958609

This is obvious MM....

AJ. end of.

I think for me this will most probably be the easiest choice, despite liking Cole a lot and having no doubt what so ever that both will tour I would start Jones everytime.

What will be interesting is how mant T/Heads he takes the two nailed on are Jones and Cole with possib;ly Murray in the frame as the 3rd one or will he rely on someone like say Jenkins who can cover both sides?

gowershowerpower wrote:This is obvious MM....

AJ. end of.

There was a huge majority supporting Dan Cole until Wales beat England so convincingly in Cardiff. A year ago it was all Mike Ross until the last game too when Ireland lost at Twickenham.

Euan Murray has had a good season, there may well be a number calling for him too. A few dark horses and "also rans" in the mix. Nice to see someone like Scott Andrews... He wasn't favoured at all by the Welsh or the Blues fans until he showed good form in the Autumn internationals.

After Saracens beat Harlequins the Sky Sports Rugby Club lobby all think that Matt Stevens is the man...! As he is retired like Sheridan its hard to know whether or not he is any better than Cole or Marler than Sheridan.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I think for me this will most probably be the easiest choice, despite liking Cole a lot and having no doubt what so ever that both will tour I would start Jones everytime.

What will be interesting is how mant T/Heads he takes the two nailed on are Jones and Cole with possib;ly Murray in the frame as the 3rd one or will he rely on someone like say Jenkins who can cover both sides?

Paul James is a better call for covering both sides than Jenkins.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I think for me this will most probably be the easiest choice, despite liking Cole a lot and having no doubt what so ever that both will tour I would start Jones everytime.

What will be interesting is how mant T/Heads he takes the two nailed on are Jones and Cole with possib;ly Murray in the frame as the 3rd one or will he rely on someone like say Jenkins who can cover both sides?

Paul James is a better call for covering both sides than Jenkins.

MM,

Paul James is a better technical prop than Jenkins full stop and he would have started the 6 Nations for me but I have a sneaky feeling he won't tour and was using Jenkins as an example.

i know cole was being bigged up, but was it really a huge majority?
my understanding was AJ had it, the other pretenders had to knock him off his perch. but they didn't.

I have to disagree, Coles work around the park, especially what he offers at the breakdown blows Jones out of the water, his scrummaging was always behind Jones, but if theres one element we can be 90% at and still look for dominance it's the scrum.

Someone go back to the Wales game and tell me what exactly Cole does wrong in a lot of places, and then go and count how many rucks he hits, secures and challenges for, his tackle count and workrate around the park!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:I have to disagree, Coles work around the park, especially what he offers at the breakdown blows Jones out of the water, his scrummaging was always behind Jones, but if theres one element we can be 90% at and still look for dominance it's the scrum.

Someone go back to the Wales game and tell me what exactly Cole does wrong in a lot of places, and then go and count how many rucks he hits, secures and challenges for, his tackle count and workrate around the park!!!

Again the Blues I guess it will all come down to what type of gameplan Gatland has is he wants a powerful destroy them type scrum then I suggest it would be someone like Sheridan and Jones if the scrum was deemed less of an omportant factor then more lets say mobile props like Healy and Cole would come into the equation.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:I have to disagree, Coles work around the park, especially what he offers at the breakdown blows Jones out of the water, his scrummaging was always behind Jones, but if theres one element we can be 90% at and still look for dominance it's the scrum.

Someone go back to the Wales game and tell me what exactly Cole does wrong in a lot of places, and then go and count how many rucks he hits, secures and challenges for, his tackle count and workrate around the park!!!

Again the Blues I guess it will all come down to what type of gameplan Gatland has is he wants a powerful destroy them type scrum then I suggest it would be someone like Sheridan and Jones if the scrum was deemed less of an omportant factor then more lets say mobile props like Healy and Cole would come into the equation.

I agree, we have 2 great options and 2 of the best in the world in that area IMHO!!

I would like to see...

Cole
Hibbard
Healy/Jenkins

That would have some work rate about it!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:I have to disagree, Coles work around the park, especially what he offers at the breakdown blows Jones out of the water, his scrummaging was always behind Jones, but if theres one element we can be 90% at and still look for dominance it's the scrum.

Someone go back to the Wales game and tell me what exactly Cole does wrong in a lot of places, and then go and count how many rucks he hits, secures and challenges for, his tackle count and workrate around the park!!!

He concedes tones of penalties though. That is a huge factor these days in international rugby.

maestegmafia wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:I have to disagree, Coles work around the park, especially what he offers at the breakdown blows Jones out of the water, his scrummaging was always behind Jones, but if theres one element we can be 90% at and still look for dominance it's the scrum.

Someone go back to the Wales game and tell me what exactly Cole does wrong in a lot of places, and then go and count how many rucks he hits, secures and challenges for, his tackle count and workrate around the park!!!

He concedes tones of penalties though. That is a huge factor these days in international rugby.

He really doesn't MM, look at the penalties he's conceded this year, the scrum can be attributed to Marler And Youngs being so small, inexperienced and totally owned at scrum time, Cole does a decent job IMHO v Wales, and he does give the odd pen at the breakdown, but no more than Healy, Jenkins and Best who all love to get stuck in. Jones is happy out of the breakdown, Cole loves to be in there, it's like comparing a 6 and 7 penalty counts, different styles of play will offer different positives and weakness's!!

we don't need a prop who can play like a poor flanker when we have tips and warbs et al.....let's have a prop who is the best at just that. being a prop....AJ it is boys.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:I have to disagree, Coles work around the park, especially what he offers at the breakdown blows Jones out of the water, his scrummaging was always behind Jones, but if theres one element we can be 90% at and still look for dominance it's the scrum.

Someone go back to the Wales game and tell me what exactly Cole does wrong in a lot of places, and then go and count how many rucks he hits, secures and challenges for, his tackle count and workrate around the park!!!

He concedes tones of penalties though. That is a huge factor these days in international rugby.

He really doesn't MM, look at the penalties he's conceded this year, the scrum can be attributed to Marler And Youngs being so small, inexperienced and totally owned at scrum time, Cole does a decent job IMHO v Wales, and he does give the odd pen at the breakdown, but no more than Healy, Jenkins and Best who all love to get stuck in. Jones is happy out of the breakdown, Cole loves to be in there, it's like comparing a 6 and 7 penalty counts, different styles of play will offer different positives and weakness's!!

No matter where he is conceding them he concedes them...! We don't want to give the Australians any opportunities, compare him to Murray, Jones or Ross...? He was Englands highest conceder of penalties this tournament.

maestegmafia wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:I have to disagree, Coles work around the park, especially what he offers at the breakdown blows Jones out of the water, his scrummaging was always behind Jones, but if theres one element we can be 90% at and still look for dominance it's the scrum.

Someone go back to the Wales game and tell me what exactly Cole does wrong in a lot of places, and then go and count how many rucks he hits, secures and challenges for, his tackle count and workrate around the park!!!

He concedes tones of penalties though. That is a huge factor these days in international rugby.

He really doesn't MM, look at the penalties he's conceded this year, the scrum can be attributed to Marler And Youngs being so small, inexperienced and totally owned at scrum time, Cole does a decent job IMHO v Wales, and he does give the odd pen at the breakdown, but no more than Healy, Jenkins and Best who all love to get stuck in. Jones is happy out of the breakdown, Cole loves to be in there, it's like comparing a 6 and 7 penalty counts, different styles of play will offer different positives and weakness's!!

No matter where he is conceding them he concedes them...! We don't want to give the Australians any opportunities, compare him to Murray, Jones or Ross...? He was Englands highest conceder of penalties this tournament.

Jones Ross and Murray aren't anywhere near the player he is though, they are good scrummaging TH's, but offer little else! Cole gets around the park like a 6 rather than a TH, Aussies areas of strength are in their athleticism up front, Alexander, Robinson, Nau, Moore etc aren't great scrummagers, but they get around the park and can play. Cole can more than hold his own in the set peice, and with a stronger front row is more than capable of winning the scrum battle, so whats the point favouring Jones because of his slightly better scrummaging?

MM who was Wales top penalty conceder?? Should they be dropped too?! Look at his breakdown attack rates, look at his tackle stats and his carrying stats, he gives pens away because he works harder than most and gets in far more places!!

Until the Wales game Cole was being touted as the best TH in world rugby, by many more qualified than us, and IMHO he and Robshaw single handedly offered the English fight up front, they were pretty good in what they did! Cole just got bested by a slicker unit, and unfortunately for him was the rock of a very lightweight and very inexperienced tight 5, of which he was the only non MS debutant I beleive! Lets put things into context!

Blues,

In that case then if the Aussies aren't that strong at scrummaging, which we all know they havne't been the greatest I would definately be tempted to smash them up front with lets say Sheridan Best and Jones then bring on a more mobile front row in the 2nd half when hopefully the damage has been done.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Blues,

In that case then if the Aussies aren't that strong at scrummaging, which we all know they havne't been the greatest I would definately be tempted to smash them up front with lets say Sheridan Best and Jones then bring on a more mobile front row in the 2nd half when hopefully the damage has been done.

That might prove uuber succesfull too bed, I certainly wouldn't be too saddened to see Sheridan go as a scrum demolishing option. Infact of all the positions I think front row is where our dominance is, but I do worry about our breakdown and especially if Genia and Cooper are on form our fringes might become extremely exposed with just monster scrummagers. Jones has already seen Genia snipe past him a few times in the last 12 months.

Look I love Adam, he's a great TH, and one of Wales most important players, but I personally would go with Cole for his all round game and workrate.

Infact my choice tight 5 would go...

Cole
Hibbard
Healy
Evans
Gray

There is a lot of grunt, lot of athleticism, plenty of carrying options, plenty of set peice nous to get on top and tons of actual ball players IMHO. I could be convinced for Best over Hibbard easily enough too!! With Jones, and Sheri off the bench... thats a painfull last 20 for the Aussi tight 5!

I don't think anyone (even Irishmen) were ever calling for Mike Ross to play for Lions.

First Choice: Adam Jones
Second Choice: Dan Cole
Third Choice: Euan Murray

Here is last years Poll

https://www.606v2.com/t26794-tight-head-prop-choices-of-the-home-nations?highlight=Choices+of+the+Home+Nations

Whats that got to do with anything?

Adam Jones is the the only player that has his name on team sheet. Dan cole got destroyed by gethin Jenkins and then Paul James. Dan Cole gives alot of penalties away im the break down he's a flopper, tries for the ball and then flops on the wrong side but he does tackle alot and he wouldn't let us down in scrum

thebluesmancometh wrote:Whats that got to do with anything?

Read the OP

welshboii15 wrote:Adam Jones is the the only player that has his name on team sheet. Dan cole got destroyed by gethin Jenkins and then Paul James. Dan Cole gives alot of penalties away im the break down he's a flopper, tries for the ball and then flops on the wrong side but he does tackle alot and he wouldn't let us down in scrum

How do you reason with such stupidity...? Cole was destroyed by Gethin Jenkins, and is a flopper, do you work for the WRU by any chance???

maestegmafia wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Whats that got to do with anything?

Read the OP

hahaha just saw what you were doing there...

He was destroyed by gethin Jenkins did cole go forward in a single scrum. He's known for flopping on the wrong side of a ruck

welshboii15 wrote:He was destroyed by gethin Jenkins did cole go forward in a single scrum. He's known for flopping on the wrong side of a ruck

I've obviously been told!!

welshboii15 wrote:He was destroyed by gethin Jenkins did cole go forward in a single scrum. He's known for flopping on the wrong side of a ruck

Because scrum dominance is entirely reliant on 1 player isn't it.......

belovedfrosties wrote:

welshboii15 wrote:He was destroyed by gethin Jenkins did cole go forward in a single scrum. He's known for flopping on the wrong side of a ruck

Because scrum dominance is entirely reliant on 1 player isn't it.......

Well I mean if Cole can't scrummage aginst 5 then whats he doing playing the game in the first place, maybe he should take up jump rope eh welshboii?????

No but if you can't beat the guy in front of you what hope do the rest have.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

belovedfrosties wrote:

welshboii15 wrote:He was destroyed by gethin Jenkins did cole go forward in a single scrum. He's known for flopping on the wrong side of a ruck

Because scrum dominance is entirely reliant on 1 player isn't it.......

Well I mean if Cole can't scrummage aginst 5 then whats he doing playing the game in the first place, maybe he should take up jump rope eh welshboii?????

You guys shouldn't write off the entire english front five. Some of those lads are good players and mixed with a few from other home nations could make a hell of a tight five for the Lions.

I respect Bluesmans points about Cole, but i just don't agree that Cole adds more to a team than Adam Jones does, in the tight, the set piece or even in open play. Adam is a hell of a tackler.

Jones got all the plaudits but Hibbard was the difference to the welsh front row scrummaging this 6N season.

As a player your taught to beat the player In front of you and Dan Cole didn't the only positive in the England front 5 the day Wales and England played was Geoff parling, only player to do his job and more he made some yards in that game

As much as I'd like to see Dan Cole start as tighthead I don't think he has been playing well recently and with Adam Jones in decent form I think it'll be him.

This a poll of who you want.

maestegmafia wrote:This a poll of who you want.

I realise. Maybe I didn't make myself clear what I meant was that although I'm a big Dan Cole fan I think on current form it should be Adam Jones.

It's likely that both will go and that one or the other will play even better with other player around them.

In 97 I wouldn't have guessed that Wallace and Smith would have been the pairing that would succeed in SA.

Likewise I don't think many would have picked the welsh three as starters in SA in 09.

In that case, Sheridan, Best and Cole with Wade Dooley and Bob Norster behind......

welshboii15 wrote:As a player your taught to beat the player In front of you and Dan Cole didn't the only positive in the England front 5 the day Wales and England played was Geoff parling, only player to do his job and more he made some yards in that game

I'm not sure youve ever been a player or coach mate. Your not taught to beat the guy in front of you at all, your taught a strong technique that involves a optimal impact on hit, an optimal body position, maximum aid from your footwork, unit fluidity and a best possible drive. The guy in front of you could be the strongets on the planet, but if his scrummaging tech is flawed he is very beatable, and no man can carry a scrum alone.

I am willing to guarentee anyone that if Adam was TH ing that very inexperienced and pretty lightweight tight 5 he wouldve ended up on his bum too, and IMHO he's the best scrummaging prop in world rugby!!


PS I'm not dismissing the England tight 5, but Marler, Youngs, Launchbury and Parling are all pretty light in comparison to the welsh boys, all inexperienced as in none had played at the MS before, and were trying to scrummage against a well oiled, more experienced and older machine!

thebluesmancometh wrote:

welshboii15 wrote:As a player your taught to beat the player In front of you and Dan Cole didn't the only positive in the England front 5 the day Wales and England played was Geoff parling, only player to do his job and more he made some yards in that game

I'm not sure youve ever been a player or coach mate. Your not taught to beat the guy in front of you at all, your taught a strong technique that involves a optimal impact on hit, an optimal body position, maximum aid from your footwork, unit fluidity and a best possible drive. The guy in front of you could be the strongets on the planet, but if his scrummaging tech is flawed he is very beatable, and no man can carry a scrum alone.

I am willing to guarentee anyone that if Adam was TH ing that very inexperienced and pretty lightweight tight 5 he wouldve ended up on his bum too, and IMHO he's the best scrummaging prop in world rugby!!


PS I'm not dismissing the England tight 5, but Marler, Youngs, Launchbury and Parling are all pretty light in comparison to the welsh boys, all inexperienced as in none had played at the MS before, and were trying to scrummage against a well oiled, more experienced and older machine!

So where's the logic in not starting the best scrummaging prop in the world and instead choosing someone further down the list (Cole)???

Jones, Cole and Ross. In that order. Paul James maybe if they decide on an extra prop and Gatland may opt for a player who has played both sides.

Griff wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

welshboii15 wrote:As a player your taught to beat the player In front of you and Dan Cole didn't the only positive in the England front 5 the day Wales and England played was Geoff parling, only player to do his job and more he made some yards in that game

I'm not sure youve ever been a player or coach mate. Your not taught to beat the guy in front of you at all, your taught a strong technique that involves a optimal impact on hit, an optimal body position, maximum aid from your footwork, unit fluidity and a best possible drive. The guy in front of you could be the strongets on the planet, but if his scrummaging tech is flawed he is very beatable, and no man can carry a scrum alone.

I am willing to guarentee anyone that if Adam was TH ing that very inexperienced and pretty lightweight tight 5 he wouldve ended up on his bum too, and IMHO he's the best scrummaging prop in world rugby!!


PS I'm not dismissing the England tight 5, but Marler, Youngs, Launchbury and Parling are all pretty light in comparison to the welsh boys, all inexperienced as in none had played at the MS before, and were trying to scrummage against a well oiled, more experienced and older machine!

So where's the logic in not starting the best scrummaging prop in the world and instead choosing someone further down the list (Cole)???

Because Cole might not be to Jones standards, but he can more than hold his own V the Oz options, and with guys like Hibbard, James etc he has big, strong scrummagers anyway, they will be more than a match for Oz (not that I'm discounting the Oz scrum at all, just saying Cole is capable of being destructive against it) you can only win 1 penalty/get 1 good platform per scrum, why not use Coles athleticism around the park for the first hour, ensure we aren't caught out by the immense talents of Cooper and Genia (Jones has seen Genia fly by more than once in the last year or so) then have destructive scrummagers like James and Jones off the bench to compound Oz problems?!?! That how I'd like to play it anyway.

I'm not saying either player is better, but it is obvious what each players strengths are, and they can't be compared, I would personally select Cole to start and Adam on the bench. Mind you in a perfect world I'd like to give Cole a crack at LH with Hibbard and JOnes up front...

thebluesmancometh wrote:

Griff wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

welshboii15 wrote:As a player your taught to beat the player In front of you and Dan Cole didn't the only positive in the England front 5 the day Wales and England played was Geoff parling, only player to do his job and more he made some yards in that game

I'm not sure youve ever been a player or coach mate. Your not taught to beat the guy in front of you at all, your taught a strong technique that involves a optimal impact on hit, an optimal body position, maximum aid from your footwork, unit fluidity and a best possible drive. The guy in front of you could be the strongets on the planet, but if his scrummaging tech is flawed he is very beatable, and no man can carry a scrum alone.

I am willing to guarentee anyone that if Adam was TH ing that very inexperienced and pretty lightweight tight 5 he wouldve ended up on his bum too, and IMHO he's the best scrummaging prop in world rugby!!


PS I'm not dismissing the England tight 5, but Marler, Youngs, Launchbury and Parling are all pretty light in comparison to the welsh boys, all inexperienced as in none had played at the MS before, and were trying to scrummage against a well oiled, more experienced and older machine!

So where's the logic in not starting the best scrummaging prop in the world and instead choosing someone further down the list (Cole)???

Because Cole might not be to Jones standards, but he can more than hold his own V the Oz options, and with guys like Hibbard, James etc he has big, strong scrummagers anyway, they will be more than a match for Oz (not that I'm discounting the Oz scrum at all, just saying Cole is capable of being destructive against it) you can only win 1 penalty/get 1 good platform per scrum, why not use Coles athleticism around the park for the first hour, ensure we aren't caught out by the immense talents of Cooper and Genia (Jones has seen Genia fly by more than once in the last year or so) then have destructive scrummagers like James and Jones off the bench to compound Oz problems?!?! That how I'd like to play it anyway.

I'm not saying either player is better, but it is obvious what each players strengths are, and they can't be compared, I would personally select Cole to start and Adam on the bench. Mind you in a perfect world I'd like to give Cole a crack at LH with Hibbard and JOnes up front...

But England got stuffed in the scrum by the Aussies last Autumn. Much more so than the Welsh did in their many tests or for that matter the Scots or Irish when they faced the Aussies.

When did England get stuffed in the scrum??? They were pretty even, and there were a few mistakes from both teams, as I said you can't judge Coles ability on the odd performance the English scrum struggles, the likes of Youngs and Marler are small, and not particularly strong scrummagers anyway. If you substituted them for Sheridan and a Thompson type (not sure exactly what England have at present, Hartley isn't a great scrummager, Lindsay neither) Cole will start to look better.

Also look at the engine rooms of the scrums, Parlling and Launchbury can't compete with the raw power of Evans and AWJ!!! Not to mention a 6 at 8, and a lock at 6!! And thats without mentioning a large majority of the England pack had never been to the MS before... PERSPECTIVE!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:When did England get stuffed in the scrum??? They were pretty even, and there were a few mistakes from both teams, as I said you can't judge Coles ability on the odd performance the English scrum struggles, the likes of Youngs and Marler are small, and not particularly strong scrummagers anyway. If you substituted them for Sheridan and a Thompson type (not sure exactly what England have at present, Hartley isn't a great scrummager, Lindsay neither) Cole will start to look better.

Also look at the engine rooms of the scrums, Parlling and Launchbury can't compete with the raw power of Evans and AWJ!!! Not to mention a 6 at 8, and a lock at 6!! And thats without mentioning a large majority of the England pack had never been to the MS before... PERSPECTIVE!!

Heres the match report.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20347064

That just says that England lost 1 more scrum than Oz did, hardly surprising given how young/new to the int scene, Parling, Palmer, Marler, Youngs all were, not to mention the purple shirt...

I do take your points about Coles attributes and I do agree he does well outside the scrum, and that he is not a bad scrummager himself.

But I don't think he is the cornerstone that Adam Jones is, you discredit Adam for his work around the field, he gets through a hell of a lot more than you seem to notice.

In the same way you credit Cole with his foraging for ball, Adam doesn't have to for Wales when we have other men doing it. He is busy elsewhere.

I concede Adam has the luxury of a good pack around him when Coles pack lack grunt, skill and experience in the scrum, as was highly evident a couple of weeks ago.

The lesson learned this six nations is that experience in the big games counts. Jones has a lot to give any team he plays for. More than Cole.

maestegmafia wrote:I do take your points about Coles attributes and I do agree he does well outside the scrum, and that he is not a bad scrummager himself.

But I don't think he is the cornerstone that Adam Jones is, you discredit Adam for his work around the field, he gets through a hell of a lot more than you seem to notice.

In the same way you credit Cole with his foraging for ball, Adam doesn't have to for Wales when we have other men doing it. He is busy elsewhere.

I concede Adam has the luxury of a good pack around him when Coles pack lack grunt, skill and experience in the scrum, as was highly evident a couple of weeks ago.

The lesson learned this six nations is that experience in the big games counts. Jones has a lot to give any team he plays for. More than Cole.

Until that last game Maes I had Cole and Jones pegged at 1, and 2 in the world, I had Healy as a good player who can be suspect at times, and Jenkins unfit...

What would you think of a front row of...

Jones, Hibbard, Cole???

thebluesmancometh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I do take your points about Coles attributes and I do agree he does well outside the scrum, and that he is not a bad scrummager himself.

But I don't think he is the cornerstone that Adam Jones is, you discredit Adam for his work around the field, he gets through a hell of a lot more than you seem to notice.

In the same way you credit Cole with his foraging for ball, Adam doesn't have to for Wales when we have other men doing it. He is busy elsewhere.

I concede Adam has the luxury of a good pack around him when Coles pack lack grunt, skill and experience in the scrum, as was highly evident a couple of weeks ago.

The lesson learned this six nations is that experience in the big games counts. Jones has a lot to give any team he plays for. More than Cole.

Until that last game Maes I had Cole and Jones pegged at 1, and 2 in the world, I had Healy as a good player who can be suspect at times, and Jenkins unfit...

What would you think of a front row of...

Jones, Hibbard, Cole???

Has Jones or Cole ever played l/head I thought they were both out n out tighties

bedfordwelsh wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I do take your points about Coles attributes and I do agree he does well outside the scrum, and that he is not a bad scrummager himself.

But I don't think he is the cornerstone that Adam Jones is, you discredit Adam for his work around the field, he gets through a hell of a lot more than you seem to notice.

In the same way you credit Cole with his foraging for ball, Adam doesn't have to for Wales when we have other men doing it. He is busy elsewhere.

I concede Adam has the luxury of a good pack around him when Coles pack lack grunt, skill and experience in the scrum, as was highly evident a couple of weeks ago.

The lesson learned this six nations is that experience in the big games counts. Jones has a lot to give any team he plays for. More than Cole.

Until that last game Maes I had Cole and Jones pegged at 1, and 2 in the world, I had Healy as a good player who can be suspect at times, and Jenkins unfit...

What would you think of a front row of...

Jones, Hibbard, Cole???

Has Jones or Cole ever played l/head I thought they were both out n out tighties

They are both tightheads. Neither play loosehead.

I think Bluesman mad a typo.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I do take your points about Coles attributes and I do agree he does well outside the scrum, and that he is not a bad scrummager himself.

But I don't think he is the cornerstone that Adam Jones is, you discredit Adam for his work around the field, he gets through a hell of a lot more than you seem to notice.

In the same way you credit Cole with his foraging for ball, Adam doesn't have to for Wales when we have other men doing it. He is busy elsewhere.

I concede Adam has the luxury of a good pack around him when Coles pack lack grunt, skill and experience in the scrum, as was highly evident a couple of weeks ago.

The lesson learned this six nations is that experience in the big games counts. Jones has a lot to give any team he plays for. More than Cole.

Until that last game Maes I had Cole and Jones pegged at 1, and 2 in the world, I had Healy as a good player who can be suspect at times, and Jenkins unfit...

What would you think of a front row of...

Jones, Hibbard, Cole???

Has Jones or Cole ever played l/head I thought they were both out n out tighties

They are both tightheads. Neither play loosehead.

I think Bluesman mad a typo.

No typo, I mesant to ask if you fancied Cole for a loosehead spot. From my understanding Cole has played loosehead in his younger days, and has the athleticism around the park to play there, a little tweak to his scrummaging and he could be a hugely destructive loosehead too ( no good for England but it's the lions tour not the English tour)

I don't see why Cole couldn't convert succesfully, it would be like combining Jenkins and James!!!