Chris Tremlett question

With the great news that Chris Tremlett is back in the England squad, should England consider playing a specialist spinner plus a 4 man pace attack of Anderson providing the swing movement, with the taller 6ft 5 plus bowlers of Broad, Finn and Tremlett providing the bounce and seam movement for the ashes test series in England this summer? Personally I believe England should use this option as the 4 man bowling attack was surprisingly very ineffective last summer when they had to bowl to decent test match batsmen during the South Africa test series.

No. You would have Swann batting at 7 followed by four number 11s. And the Aussies do not generally fit the description "decent test match batsmen". If the 4 best bowlers we have aren't good enough to set up match winning positions then we will be losing anyway.

No stick to the 4 man attack. We won't need 5 bowlers to bowl out this Aussie side twice as they just haven't got the batting line up to make big totals. Clarke is the only one who can make big scores. Cowan can make the odd 50 but fails to crack on, Hughes is still vulnerable in swinging conditions, Watson can't make big scores either so you can see where i'm going with this.

The other thing is the Aussies bowling attack is their strength and England haven't exactly racked up the runs themselves this summer. Pattinson, Siddle, Starc/Johnson will all be a handful so we need the batters to step up to the mark.

Liam wrote:No stick to the 4 man attack. We won't need 5 bowlers to bowl out this Aussie side twice as they just haven't got the batting line up to make big totals. Clarke is the only one who can make big scores. Cowan can make the odd 50 but fails to crack on, Hughes is still vulnerable in swinging conditions, Watson can't make big scores either so you can see where i'm going with this.

The other thing is the Aussies bowling attack is their strength and England haven't exactly racked up the runs themselves this summer. Pattinson, Siddle, Starc/Johnson will all be a handful so we need the batters to step up to the mark.

I think the Aussies actually have the ability in English conditions to bat really well provided that they select proper batsmen like Khawaja, Shaun Marsh, David Hussey and perhaps Chris Rogers who has excellent experience of batting in English conditions. Also the biggest unknown factor is Phil Hughes, yes he failed miserably when he first toured England in 2009, but since then he has gained the vital experience of batting in England having played an entire season of county cricket for Worcestershire. I believe that we will be seeing a much better and improved Phil Hughes during the ashes test series. Anyway the reason I wrote this thread is that I strongly feel England's bowling is not as strong as many people believe it is, coupled with the fact that the 2 best bowlers Anderson and Swann currently have injury/fitness concerns so therefore we must play a 5 man specialist bowling attack if only to reduce the workload demands on these 2 senior bowlers.

This is the same Chris Tremlett who couldn't be risked in Surrey's current 12-a-side two day friendly.

Look, Tremlett is a good bowler but his fitness is still some way off permitting him to play 5 day Tests.

Boycs - not as ludicrous as the suggestion that Luke Wright open the batting and bowling for England (why not give him the captaincy as well?!) and you got me to bite here. However, you'll probably need to up your game to claim a lot more victims during the season.

guildfordbat wrote:This is the same Chris Tremlett who couldn't be risked in Surrey's current 12-a-side two day friendly.

Look, Tremlett is a good bowler but his fitness is still some way off permitting him to play 5 day Tests.

Boycs - not as ludicrous as the suggestion that Luke Wright open the batting and bowling for England (why not give him the captaincy as well?!) and you got me to bite here. However, you'll probably need to up your game to claim a lot more victims during the season.

Which is why with fitness concerns not just with Tremlett but with Anderson and Swann as well that England should play a 5 man bowling attack.

gboycottnut wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:This is the same Chris Tremlett who couldn't be risked in Surrey's current 12-a-side two day friendly.

Look, Tremlett is a good bowler but his fitness is still some way off permitting him to play 5 day Tests.

Boycs - not as ludicrous as the suggestion that Luke Wright open the batting and bowling for England (why not give him the captaincy as well?!) and you got me to bite here. However, you'll probably need to up your game to claim a lot more victims during the season.

Which is why with fitness concerns not just with Tremlett but with Anderson and Swann as well that England should play a 5 man bowling attack.

Boycs - as you know, five bowlers @ 80% fitness doesn't equal four @100%.

As an old friend and work colleague once said to an exasperated manager who wished to throw resources at a problem, ''You may give me nine women but I still can't give you a baby in a month.''

I dont know hey. Tall, steepling bounce doesnt necessarily equal rolling teams over, does it?
Steyn is only 5'10
Philander looks about 5'11
Jimmy is about 6'2
Kemar Roach 5'9ish
Peter Siddle 6'1ish
Even young James Pattinson is about 6'1+

These guys for me represent the best quickies today, they arent 6'5+ putting the fear of God into bowlers. I appreciate the tactic of having steepling bounce, but even traditionally, when has a team of basketballers rolled teams over?

I remember the hype when we rolled out "the tallest pace attack in history" a couple of years ago. Finn, Broad and Tremlett vs Sri Lanka, combined height 100 foot or thereabouts.

Did it work? Did it heck!

didnt that end 1-0 due to Sri Lanka having one of those "If this was Pakistan we would be looking at their bank accounts" sessions? Hardly a destruction

Yep that was it. The 2 draws were weather affected and it would have been 0-0 barring the session you mention. The tall pace attack only played in the second Test, where SL were 288-1 at one stage. I remember thinking at the time 3 tall right arm bowlers was a bit samey:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-sri-lanka-2011/engine/match/474464.html

it doesnt work. I think its because big men traditionally cant swing a balloon, this means that if you can get on the front foot (their height negating LBW) Runs can be plundered

VTR wrote:Yep that was it. The 2 draws were weather affected and it would have been 0-0 barring the session you mention. The tall pace attack only played in the second Test, where SL were 288-1 at one stage. I remember thinking at the time 3 tall right arm bowlers was a bit samey:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-sri-lanka-2011/engine/match/474464.html

but having the quality of Jimmy Anderson's swing bowling at one end whilst the 3 tall guys come in at the other end with steepling bounce can make a big difference to a team's pace attack when compared to having just a pace attack containing of just tall guys with only steepling bounce but no swing movement. For example the great West Indies pace attack of the 1980's hardly ever played 3 or 4 very tall hit-the-deck hard pace bowlers such as Garner + Croft + Clarke + Gray or Walsh as there was always Malcolm Marshall in their team who provided the swing and skiddy type of pace bowling to give variety to their pace attack.

kingraf wrote:it doesnt work. I think its because big men traditionally cant swing a balloon, this means that if you can get on the front foot (their height negating LBW) Runs can be plundered

It does work against Australian as their batsmen always find playing tall bowlers very difficult. Ambrose bowled well against Australian batsmen in 1993, likewise Tremlett did the same in the last ashes test series, and going back to the early 1970's, England's John Snow another fairly tallish bowler also bowled well to cause major problems to Australia's batsmen. What doesn't work so well is the reliance on Swing Type bowling against Australia, with the only major success for a swing bowler against Australia being that of Richard Ellison in the 1985 ashes series.

I think the idea is fine with one or two big guys, but even the great Windies best bowler was Marshall, and Holding (6'2).
I may be wrong, but I cant think of a basketball attack that dominated a series. Especially in the 21st century, with the flatter pitches.