French clubs increase salary cap

by **profitius** Wed 17 Apr 2013, 4:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

Once again the French are strengthening their grip on European rugby.

The Ligue Nationale de Rugby in France have extended the salary cap in the Top 14 up to 10million euros for next season.

According to Midi Olympique, the change sees the salary cap increase from 9.5million euros.

The cap will now be frozen for the next two seasons, avoiding a further increase.

One notable change to the cap is that youth players will no longer be included in the salary cap, unless their salaries are greater than 50,000 euros a year.

Thats bad news for everybody else including the French national team.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 18 Apr 2013, 12:18 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Firstly, the French would never accept it. Why should they? If the owners are going to gamble the house on black, they at least deserve to cast the dice, and spend the reward (should it materialise).

Secondly, I personally love the Heineken Cup, in it's current form, and I cannot for the life of me understand why so many want to seemingly rip it apart and change the rules.

This whole notion of trying to legislate for "fairness" is pointing in the wrong direction. I'm not suggesting clubs only spend what they earn (in the UK and Ireland, I don't care about France) in order to make things "fair", I'm suggesting it so that our clubs and regions don't perish in some silly attempt to combat the stupidity currently manifesting itself in France.

Were the French sides to completely dominate all European competitions for the next three years, I may think differently. But currently, overall, it's just a hugely expensive failure, and they wouldn't be so frantically trying to reorder the European structures if everything was going well.

They are also destroying their national team, and we should certainly encourage that!

Have to agree, France time is always post lions, another poor showing and the powers that be will start doing the job we all want them to do and start putting pressure on the T14 to play more FQ players, younger FQ players etc...

by LordDowlais Thu 18 Apr 2013, 12:30 pm

I couldn't give a rats @rse what the French do, not until they come sniffing around our regions anyway, what I would like to see is some sort of signing fee for the club/region/province who have paid big money to get the players where they are now, unless they are at a certain age of course.

Lets take a look at Dan Lydiate for example, the Dragons have spent a small fortune into making him the player he is today, now at the ripe old age of 21/22 he is going to give his best years to a French club, some sort of compo must be given for this, I am very confident that the conveyor belt in Wales is in good order, I just do not want the French vultures sniffing around and reaping the rewards for the hard work other people are doing, also I want Welsh players aspiring to play for their region, not seeing it as a stepping stone towards the riches in France.

by SecretFly Thu 18 Apr 2013, 12:39 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Firstly, the French would never accept it. Why should they? If the owners are going to gamble the house on black, they at least deserve to cast the dice, and spend the reward (should it materialise).

Secondly, I personally love the Heineken Cup, in it's current form, and I cannot for the life of me understand why so many want to seemingly rip it apart and change the rules.

This whole notion of trying to legislate for "fairness" is pointing in the wrong direction. I'm not suggesting clubs only spend what they earn (in the UK and Ireland, I don't care about France) in order to make things "fair", I'm suggesting it so that our clubs and regions don't perish in some silly attempt to combat the stupidity currently manifesting itself in France.

Were the French sides to completely dominate all European competitions for the next three years, I may think differently. But currently, overall, it's just a hugely expensive failure, and they wouldn't be so frantically trying to reorder the European structures if everything was going well.

They are also destroying their national team, and we should certainly encourage that!

Have to agree, France time is always post lions, another poor showing and the powers that be will start doing the job we all want them to do and start putting pressure on the T14 to play more FQ players, younger FQ players etc...

What pressure do the "powers" have? - given that the battle for European rugby is not just for two competitions but for the control of rugby itself.......... period......in Europe.
That's what the battle is and why it is much more serious than two competitions run by six Unions.

The clubs, both English and French, (possibly Regions too) want Unions out...they want Union power extinguished. The clubs want to be the ones dictating rugby policy in Europe, unaffected by Union borders or national boundaries. And they even eventually want Club rugby played across the Hemispheres to be the replacement of sorts for International.
French clubs are in no serious mood to be taking orders from the French Union on FQ players. They own the show in France and the rugby viewing population seem to want it that way.

Professionalism isn't all that old a reality. People forget this. It's really only still finding its legs. And the legs it wants doesn't involve old school interference from Unions.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 18 Apr 2013, 12:41 pm

LD - the key is to get your young players onto long-term contracts without easy release clauses, that way they have to be bought out. Once a player is out of contract, it's impossible to ask for a fee.

by LordDowlais Thu 18 Apr 2013, 12:44 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:LD - the key is to get your young players onto long-term contracts without easy release clauses, that way they have to be bought out. Once a player is out of contract, it's impossible to ask for a fee.

Isn't there something in football ? Any player signed before a certain age must have compo payed to the club that nurtured him. Because I will tell you one thing, I would hate to see all the best Welsh players not playing in Wales, and the regions being out of pocket because of it. mad

by funnyExiledScot Thu 18 Apr 2013, 12:49 pm

I think (although not 100%) that in football that only applies to players under 18 (or maybe 21). The old issue was that previously they could move for free, as you couldn't tie players below a certain age into contracts lasting more than two years (seen as exploitation....). So teams would nurture youngsters through the ranks, and then couldn't do anything to stop them being poached. Now I think there's a tribunal that sets the fee.

I suppose you could do something similar in rugby, but I can't see it working cross border, the French would obviously block it given the current situation.

I felt the same when Richie Gray wandered off as soon as he started to become useful, but al least Glasgow made excellent use of the money they had previously hypothecated to pay Gray's salary.

by **profitius** Thu 18 Apr 2013, 3:06 pm

Its interesting to see French teams sign so many non French players but they don't sign many foreign coaches. Vern Cotter is the only head coach I can think of. Its the opposite to whats going on in Ireland.

by Kingshu Thu 18 Apr 2013, 3:17 pm

In 2009

French rugby is to limit the number of overseas players plying their trade domestically in their top-flight clubs.

Clubs will be set a minimum number of home-grown players and will be allowed to have no more than 30% of their squad from overseas by the 2011/12 season.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7980339.stm

Don't think this happened
Toulon squad 21 overseas / out of 38 = 55% (unless its only NZ, Aus etc that could as overseas)

I think they set a new quota on home-grown players but can't find this. If they limit the number of non French players at each club it will also limit the number of players they can attrach from overseas.

by Kingshu Thu 18 Apr 2013, 3:18 pm

read into it more

Under LNR rules, teams are limited to two players of non-EU nationality on their domestic match-day rosters. However, a large number of players whose primary nationality is outside the EU are exempt from this quota for various reasons.
The largest non-EU source of quota-exempt players are the ACP countries, due to the Kolpak ruling. In the context of rugby, the most important ACP countries are South Africa, Fiji, Samoa, and Tonga.
Georgian players also qualifies for the Kolpak exemption because Georgia has a similar relationship with the EU through the European Neighbourhood Policy.

by Kingshu Thu 18 Apr 2013, 3:20 pm

So in reality you are limited to two NZ or AUS players, per match day squad.

not really limiting it, is it!

by funnyExiledScot Thu 18 Apr 2013, 3:25 pm

It's staggering really isn't it. They set out to try and fix the issue of having a French league without any French players in it, and then end up with a caveat to the whole system that completely undermines the effort.

French rugby is not in rude health at all, and it'll take more than a bunch of mercenaries winning the HC once-off to convince me otherwise.

by **profitius** Thu 18 Apr 2013, 3:44 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
French rugby is not in rude health at all, and it'll take more than a bunch of mercenaries winning the HC once-off to convince me otherwise.

Their U20 side were very poor too.

by SecretFly Thu 18 Apr 2013, 4:25 pm

They're World Cup finalists.
They beat Australia in the Autumn 33-6. 6N champs lost to Australia.
They beat Samoa 22-14. 6N champs lost to Samoa.
In the past 14 years of Six Nations history they've only been out of the top three on three occasions.
They've been steady enough in the world rankings for five years now. 6th isn't a major downsize for them in that graph.
They have a new coach.
They're planning for a European based WC assault every bit as strategically as the rest of us.
They're prepared to cruise like dead men until they have something they truly want ( as last WC journey showed again)

Writing off France at this point is far too premature. They're too crafty. No side that wants to be in contention for a GS plays the way the French side played in their first games this year. Walking back to defend their lines against the mighty Italy. They have three games against New Zealand coming up. France are erratic, yes. They're also crafty.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 18 Apr 2013, 4:42 pm

I'm not writing them off. Merely saying that I believe their achievements over the last decade to be no more than par, based on their resources and player numbers, and I see no particular upward trend, despite the vast sums of money spent in the last 5 years.

France will always be a strong rugby nation. They are a passionate rugby country, and have large numbers of players to choose from. I just don't think the approach currently taken by their clubs (i.e. spend as much as possible), is making much difference. My point is just let them get on with it. It isn't making them any better, at club level or nationally. At least not as far as I can see.

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