Madrid Masters 1000 match thread

[lydian]

First topic message reminder :

Just somewhere to drop random comments on the matches outside the draw and picking threads.

Youhnzy got a good win over Fognini today winning in 3rd set TB.
Wawrinka continuing his good form with a win over Popsicle.
Paire and Monaco have also won.

However, THE match today has to be Djokovic vs Dimitrov at around 7pm UK time.
Can Grigor take heart from recent matches to keep pushing on?
Can he pose a serious challenge to Djokovic on lung-busting clay?
The faster altitude should help Grigor who has a fast serve and flashing groundstrokes.

[Jeremy_Kyle]

Looking forward to Socal's technical analysis here .........

[Haddie-nuff]

Well JK you wouldn´t be the first that couldn´t . My fault for assuming you knew

[lydian]

We do? He was aware that he wasn't as fit as his peers (both his own age and the older players), so set out to get a lot fitter in order to catch up, but how do we know that he "absolutely dedicated himself to becoming the fittest player on tour"?

Because there was a long article outlining everything I've said:

"No Pain, No Gain"
Roger Federer was still the youngest player in the top 100 of the ATP rankings at the end of the 2000 season and was rapidly working his way to the top. However, when it came to winning his first ATP singles title, it seemed as though he was jinxed. No matter how well he played, he just couldn’t break through and win his first title. By contrast, Lleyton Hewitt, who was just five months older than Federer, already won six titles in his career, including four alone in 2000. Hewitt also ranked No. 6 in the world rankings and was firmly established as a consistent top 10 player.

Hewitt’s style was different and simpler. He was fast and was one of the greatest warriors on the court—fighting tooth and nail for every point and wearing his opponents down with his steady baseline play. He intimidated opponents with fist pumps and his signature yell-out of “C’mon!” While Hewitt was winning in a relatively non-dazzling way, the opposite was usually the case for Federer. He charmed the spectators with dynamic displays of the most diverse strokes and with his virtuoso onslaught. He seemed to possess infinite potential—but he nonetheless repeatedly lost to inferior opponents. He seemed like somebody who had the winning lottery ticket but didn’t know what to do with all his money. “He has so much potential that it sometimes confuses even himself,” said John McEnroe, himself, a one-time artist with the tennis ball.

Federer’s time finally seemed to come in October of 2000 in Basel, his hometown. He overcame a match point in defeating Hewitt for the first time in his career in the semifinals, winning by the narrowest of margins—8-6 in the decisive third-set tie-break. “That was one of my most unbelievable matches,” the local matador said exuberantly of one of his early marquee wins. But Federer was not able to carry the momentum through to the title, losing a hard-fought final to No. 6 seed Thomas Enqvist of Sweden. The final-round showing in Basel placed Federer among the top 25 ranked players in the world. But mental and physical exhaustion from the long season set in and Federer won just three matches in his final four tournaments and finished the 2000 season ranked No. 29. For the first time, he failed to achieve his goals for the season—winning his first title and finishing the year in the top 25 of the rankings.

Federer’s 2000 season—his second as a professional—taught him the bitter lesson that spectacular strokes and talent by themselves weren’t enough to win tournaments and get to the top. He had to work on his physical fitness. Although fitness training was something he didn’t particularly like, he hired a fitness coach, Pierre Paganini, an old acquaintance from his time with the Swiss Tennis Federation at Ecublens, to join Lundgren as part of his team. Training with the 43-year-old Paganini 100 days a year proved to be a stroke of luck.

“He is the best fitness trainer you can imagine,” said Lundgren of Paganini. The bald, bespectacled man was a former soccer player as well as a smart, professional and unobtrusive worker—and he quickly deduced what Federer was lacking. “Athletically, he had great shortcomings. There was enormous potential for improvement, especially in legwork and body building,” Paganini recalled. “His problem was that his enormous talent allowed him to cover up his athletic shortcomings.” At the same time, however, he also had to defend his position in the world rankings and he could not afford to just work on basic conditioning. “I had a time table of three years to bring him up to the best physical condition.”

Paganini’s goal, however, was not to transform Federer into a muscle-man. “A tennis player is not a sprinter, a marathon runner or a shot-put thrower,” he said. “But he does have to have something from all of them and he does have to be able to summon all of these qualities when playing.” Because Federer was a creative player who often improvised many different shots during a match, he had to be able to execute many different movements, unlike a player like Hewitt, who tended to play the same style and hit the same type of shots repeatedly. Paganini worked with Federer to achieve a “coordinated creativity,” high precision movements and the ability to muster top athletic performance after four hours of play. “Roger couldn’t be permitted to choose the wrong tactic for physical reasons,” Paganini said. ...[in 2000 being able to play for 4 hours without losing athletic ability or playing the wrong shot is tantamount deciding to become the fittest in the sport]

Every day brought fresh challenges for Paganini to keep the young firebrand’s morale high. “Roger is not a workaholic that you can hit 3,000 backhands to and he hits them and feels good doing it. Training has to be fun for Roger,” said Lundgren.

“He wants to work hard but he needs a lot of variety,” Paganini said. “He has to see that an exercise is useful to him. He is an artist. If you motivate him, then he turns into a training animal.”

In Biel in December of 2000, Federer received a two-week preview of what his new training work would entail. Paganini developed special exercises for him that he termed “integrated fitness training.” Federer, for example, ran on the side of the court until he was exhausted and then immediately ran back onto the court to play tennis. “The natural reflexes and all the bad habits that are the hardest to break kick in when one is in an exhausted state,” Paganini said, explaining his method. “And then the coach goes to work on them.”

While many tennis players only concentrated on building fitness in December, the only tournament-free month of the year, Federer punctually worked on his fitness training the entire year. Paganini was immediately enthused by the professional dedication shown by his protégé. “He was really motivated for such exercises and this surprised me,” he said. “But he is, after all, a natural athlete.” Paganini, who called Federer “naturally coordinated,” said Federer accepted the fact that fitness work and practicing would not always be fun. “He noticed that he was there to acquire something that would later serve him on the tennis court.”

Paganini’s three-year plan proved successful. “Today, Roger can reach a maximum speed of 20 km/h (12 mph), which means that he can keep up with a regional sprinter for the first 30 meters,” he recollected in 2003. Federer could run 3,300 meters in 12 minutes, 9,300 meters in 40 minutes and he could press 150 kg (330 lbs) while doing knee-bends. This was an immense improvement from before.

Federer found it easy to motivate himself for these goal-oriented training sessions because they broke up the routine. “Just a little bit of change does me a lot of good,” he said. “Once I’m out on the court, I don’t have any problem getting motivated. If I want to be No. 1, I have to give my all in training.” Thanks to Paganini, he understood why he was training so hard. He quickly noticed that his improved fitness was helping him to increase his self confidence. “I feel mentally really good because I know that I am physically prepared and that I can compete,” he said after the first extended training session with Paganini.

Lundgren expected a lot from Federer in 2001, his first full season as Federer’s private coach. He was convinced that “if he plays like he did last fall in Sydney, Vienna or in Basel, he’ll be in the top 15.” He even dared to speculate that “he could have his first title very soon.”

At the start of the season, Federer and Martina Hingis won the Hopman Cup in Perth. It was not an especially significant event but it was, after all, the International Tennis Federation’s sanctioned world mixed tennis tournament. He reached the third round of the Australian Open—avenging his Olympic loss to DiPasquale in the first round before losing to eventual finalist Arnaud Clement. February, however, became the best month of his career to date. At the indoor event in Milan, Italy after the Australian Open, Federer defeated Olympic Champion Yevgeny Kafelnikov for the first time in his career in the semifinals to reach his third career ATP singles final. Federer seized the opportunity and, with his parents in the stands cheering him on, he finally won his first ATP singles title, defeating No. 53-ranked Julien Boutter of France 6-4, 6-7 (7), 6-4.

Lundgren was correct. A milestone was achieved. “The relief is enormous,” Federer said. “I’ve had to wait a long time for this moment. It should get easier from here on out.” But the excursion to Milan didn’t end very happily for Roger’s father. In his excitement, he locked his car keys inside the car and had to smash in the car window to retrieve them. A week later, another career milestone was achieved for the 19-year-old as he returned to Basel for Davis Cup duty against the United States. There was no stopping Federer. He beat Todd Martin and Jan-Michael Gambill in two breath-taking performances in singles, and in between, paired with Lorenzo Manta to defeat the American team of Gambill and Justin Gimelstob in doubles.

With his three match victories in the 3-2 Swiss defeat of the USA, he joined Raul Ramirez, Neale Fraser, Nicola Pietrangeli, Frank Sedgman, Henri Cochet and Laurie Doherty as the seventh and the youngest player to win three live matches in a Davis Cup tie against the United States. “It’s like a dream,” said Federer, who shed tears of joy after his match-clinching victory over Gambill.

The Americans, by contrast, were stunned. “You’d have to be blind not to see that he’s got a great future in store for him,” said Gambill. U.S. Captain Patrick McEnroe didn’t try to make any excuses although he was missinghis two strongest players, Andre Agassi and Pete Sampras, in this match. “We knew that Federer would be tough but we didn’t expect this,” he said. “Whenever he got hold of the ball, the point was his.”

February would bring even more success for Federer. The week after his single-handed defeat of the U.S. Davis Cup team, he reached the semifinals in Marseille where his 10-match winning streak was ended by Kafelnikov. The next week, he reached his fourth career singles final, losing to Nicolas Escude of France in a third-set tie-break in the final of Rotterdam. The ATP chose him their “Player of the Month” and effusively praised in their official press communication, “The Federer Express has arrived!” A playful warning was also issued in the press release stating that Federer, “has been blessed with so much talent that it almost seems unfair to his opponents.”

http://www.worldtennismagazine.com/archives/6329

[JuliusHMarx]

So basically he decided to get very fit, like all the other players he was losing to. I don't see that as absolute dedication to be the fittest guy on the tour, any more than any other player. He just didn't want to be losing matches because of lack of fitness.

[lydian]

I don't see it that way JHM. He set out, as Paganini says, to be able to play for over 4 hours with no loss of ability or choosing the wrong tactic due to fatigue. Choosing that objective of fitness was going to put him right up there with any of the fittest guys on tour.

At the end of the day we can judge that intention by actual outcomes. He's clearly shown he went on to become arguably the fittest, or at least equal fitness with Nadal. I've never seen Federer break down against Nadal (or anyone else in 5 sets), not even during their epic 5hr grueller in the heat on clay at Rome 2006 when he had MP in the 5th set TB. In my mind its clear there was no-one fitter on tour than Federer up to 2008 onwards. This is what Dimitrov has to do if he wants to fully emulate the guy he looks up to.

[HM Murdock]

In my mind its clear there was no-one fitter on tour than Federer up to 2008 onwards.

Federer's record in 5th sets 2003 - 2007
P 10
W 4
L 6

Even if you take just his prime years of 04 - 07:
P 7
W 4
L 3

Why is his 5th set record relatively tame if he is/was the fittest player on tour?

[lydian]

You're purely linking 5 set outcomes to fitness. Federer is the guy who went 5 hrs, toe to toe, with Nadal in hot Rome and we're supposed to believe that elsewhere in less testing conditions he was a lame duck after 4 sets?

5 set records aren't about just fitness. Infact they rarely are IMO. They become hugely mental as the pressure builds. We saw Roger lose that 5 setter vs Novak at USO from 2 MPs up where he just mentally folded afterwards. Or when he was 6-5, 30-0 up in the 5th vs Nalbandian at WTF2005 and lost. Its something he's done a few times in 5 setters, indeed he had a tendency for panicking earlier in his career and had psychology training for it but the gremlins remained from time to time. He's a great frontrunner but not always so good at eeking out a win. Are you telling me Tsonga or Delpo were fitter than him for their 5 sets win over him? Are you telling me that every player from 2000 onwards who has a better 5 set record than him is merely just fitter?

Conversely, look at Sampras. I wouldn't call him the fittest guy around with his anemia condition by any stretch of the imagination but yet he had a 33-15 record (29-9 in slams), he was a great clutch player in pressure situations.

Once guys go into 5 sets the wave of adrenalin tends to keep them going and its their ability to stay calm and focused on the finishing line that gets the job done. When has Federer ever pulled up lame, cramp, even looking out of breath - infact does the guy ever sweat? I don't buy the pure 5 set-fitness link at all.

[JuliusHMarx]

In Rafa's book he basically says he knew he could win 5th set in the Wimby 2008 final, because Fed was shot physically and that it was only Fed's serve that was keeping him in it.

[laverfan]

Federer had a tough time closing the 5th set against Roddick in W 2009.

The epitome of fitness is AO 2012 final though.

[lydian]

"Basically says"? lol
This is the same Federer who was "shot" at 6-6 in the 5th at Rome 06?

All good stuff but its all starting to get beyond the point into semantics...the point was that Dimitrov needs to take a leaf out of Federer's fitness book to crack on.

[JuliusHMarx]

I'm only going on what Rafa says

But yes, Dimitrov needs to get fitter - a leaf out of Fed's book. Or Rafa's, or Djoko's, or Murray's, or Ferrer's....

[Guest]

Paire holding his own. Only feels a matter of time before Nadal breaks.

[HM Murdock]

You're purely linking 5 set outcomes to fitness.

I'm just taking it as a useful barometer.

The whole reason that Fed got fit (as described in the article you posted) was so that his shot selection would not be influenced by fitness issues.

So why would a guy, whose overall match record is amazing, have a patchy record in 5th sets? Why would his shot selection/execution tail off in 5th sets, when the fitness is supposed to address that?

Pyschological reasons is one explanation but that can only be speculation (apart from one or two very obvious ones such as v Novak in USO 11).

But, yes, your right it's a side issue to the main discussion about Dimi's issue, so no need to get bogged down in this debate!

[lydian]

Indeed JHM, any of those guys fitness levels are a mile from where Dimitrov is right now. The fact he "only" has to possibly improve that area speaks to his potential. It would take him 2 yrs+ to achieve though...he best get cracking!

"Paire holding his own"

[Guest]

Paire is like a hybrid of Simon/Murray. Skinny legs and bizarre shot selections

[lydian]

Cheers HMM, its an interesting debate (for another time). I'm not discounting fitness (totally) but we know in reality its going to be a range of factors as they get into 5 setters. Another interesting point is that Federer is taken to much fewer 5 setters than greats of the past so maybe when he goes to 5 sets its more of a shock to his system...who knows

Yeak LK...he's 6'5' too...I'm always surprised by these guys heights at times. For example I only recently found out Troicki is 6'4' - blimey. But surely no-one has thin legs like Simon, the last time I saw legs like those they were hanging upside down in a butchers window!

[Guest]

That was just unreal that FH. Paire ran out of luck there.

[lydian]

Berdy, Haas (yay!) and Nishikori already through today.

[Guest]

Nadal given a time violation warning

[ALPanorak]

Paire has nice touch but his forehand stands out as a horribly weak shot

[Guest]

Nadal in control of this first set. He is having a chat with the umpire

[lydian]

Yes and Paire is a little wooden at times...as befits a 6'5' behemoth. But a nice BH and creative mindset. Nadal doesn't like getting pulled up for time at all...

[Guest]

Not sure what Nadal's complaint is. The rule is not going anywhere and is being enforced. Though he wont be the last to give the umpire a bit of grief.

[Guest]

Paire just seems to have no length on his groundstrokes. Seems if the drop shot starts to fail his game will crumble.

[The Special Juan]

Azarenka went ballistic this afternoon apparently and then went on to get hammered by Makarova.

[Guest]

Paire just avoiding his FH like the plague.

[kingraf]

if I faced Nadal on clay, and I was a guy like Verdasco, i.e. 1-13 against him, I think there would be a day where I kicked his water bottles just to see if they have any mythical value...

[The Special Juan]

So I guess it went Paire-shaped for Benoit

[laverfan]

"Basically says"? lol
This is the same Federer who was "shot" at 6-6 in the 5th at Rome 06?

All good stuff but its all starting to get beyond the point into semantics...the point was that Dimitrov needs to take a leaf out of Federer's fitness book to crack on.

The self-same Federer who was shot against Safin @AO 2005 (blisters) and Nalbandian @TMC 2005 (after two TB sets losing the next two at 6-2, 6-1).

[lydian]

Blisters isn't getting tired, that's different.
As said, at 2005TMC he was 6-5, 30-0 up serving for it in the 5th.
I don't understand the use of the "laughter" smiley either.

[laverfan]

Blisters isn't getting tired, that's different. As said, at 2005TMC he was 6-5, 30-0 up serving for it in the 5th. I don't understand the use of the "laughter" smiley either.

I was laughing because the subject of fitness is beginning to sound like a specific poster's need to discuss it frequently. You know who I am referring to Lydian, don't you?

[lydian]

Oh yes LF, I do. There is a big difference here of course...it's not about the same player ALL the time, and we're only saying that Dimi needs to up his fitness levels as Federer was able, to avoid further 2nd set cramping. Also, you'll note my rejection of fitness being the vital factor in 5 set results is counter to what that specific poster always went on about, no?

[laverfan]

Oh yes LF, I do. There is a big difference here of course...it's not about the same player ALL the time, and we're only saying that Dimi needs to up his fitness levels as Federer was able, to avoid further 2nd set cramping. Also, you'll note my rejection of fitness being the vital factor in 5 set results is counter to what that specific poster always went on about, no?

Yes, no!.

[laverfan]

Good to see The Colonel take out Almagro.

[The Special Juan]

Lozza Rozza and Ivanovic locked at 5-5 in the first. If Robbo can get the first set then Ivanovic might implode mentally and through the second away.

[CaledonianCraig]

Watching it on Eurosport. If you weren't aware of the seeding you'd swear Robson was the higher ranked. She is the one calling the shots.

[CaledonianCraig]

And Laura Robson breaks to take the first set 7-5.

[The Special Juan]

No offence to Ana but you could argue Robson's the better player anyway. Like Aggy, Ana can get smacked off the court by the power players.

[CaledonianCraig]

Robson has to stay tuned in though. She has just been broken at the start of the second set but breaks back immediately. She leads 7-5 1-1.

[The Special Juan]

I wonder if all the top players look at Robbo and think "I really, really don't want to draw her in the first round of a major".

[The Special Juan]

Spoke too soon

[kingraf]

Just watched The Dimi match again. That was serious theatre right there. Very rarely does a MS1000 second round match get that big match feel. It was electric

[The Special Juan]

Double faultitis

[The Special Juan]

HOLD YOUR SERVE!!!! Ugh.

[The Special Juan]

There's something depressing about mouthing "Come on!" every time Robbo wins a point on her own serve.

[The Special Juan]

4 points away now. Come on......

[The Special Juan]

You

[lydian]

Woeful from Robson, no cojones when it counted there.

[ryan86]

Ivanovic's toss is terrible.

[lydian]

Who dares wins.

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