Will the four Welsh regions be as poor next season ?

by LordDowlais Mon 13 May 2013, 6:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well, what do we all think, surely the four regions cannot be as bad next season as they were this season, can they ? But, there are some serious departures on the horizon, North, Lydiate, Jamie Roberts so what can we expect, another limp season in Europe ? No teams qualifying for the play-offs ? It all seems very depressing and the regions really do need to step up or they will cease to exist, who wants to watch a side devoid of it's best players and loosing all the time. All our best players will be in England or France within the next couple of years unless the regions can do anything, so what do we have in store ? I foresee another baron season for the regions and anything other than at least getting out of their respective groups in the HC and reaching the play-offs in the Rabo will be seen as another failure, god it depresses me, please can somebody shine a ray of light for me, a glimmer of hope, and try to convince me otherwise. Sorry

by LordDowlais Tue 14 May 2013, 12:51 pm

Kingshu, I have explained the lack of support issue on another thread before, the thing is, in Wales there is too much rugby for people to support, take a look at my town, Merthyr Tydfil, in my town alone there are off the top of my head six rugby teams, and I am supposed to come under the Cardiff Blues region, how can people be expected to watch their village side or town side and watch their regions as well. The reason for me why Wales is so popular is because when Wales play all other games are off for the most part. There are plenty of supporters in Wales they are just all supporting different teams. There are four pro rugby teams and two pro football teams, add together the support for the Blues and the Dragons and you will not be far off what Cardiff City get each week. When people are watching the Dragons getting tooled at home by Glasgow or the Scarlets being humped at home by Treviso there is no wonder people are preferring to go and watch Cross Keys or Ebbw Vale or Pontypridd or Llandovery, I was at the Cardiff arms park to watch the Blues play Ulster a few months back and it was like watching men against boys, I could have watched Cefn Coed play with my mates and I would have had a better time. The thing is, rugby in Wales is as popular as ever, the regions are not, and that is just the long and short of it.

by Stone Motif Tue 14 May 2013, 1:06 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:Don't agree sorry for one fact, there is hardly a pro sports team in the world that built success out of their support base.

Realistically speaking, it tends to work the other way around. The support is an outcome of things like private investment, sponsorships, tv deals etc. It is important to maintaining success but as much use as t1ts on a fish in terms of generating success in the first place.

Ever heard of Exeter Chiefs?

Ah yes, multiple league and European champions Exeter Chiefs. That's one, go on there must be more you can think of...

by LordDowlais Tue 14 May 2013, 1:13 pm

Also I am going to remember this thread in the hope that I am wrong and pat everyone on the back who are more optimistic than me, so we will see next season then. Ale

by red_stag Tue 14 May 2013, 1:17 pm

Stone,

I would list Munster as a team who achieved a lot based on their supporters base.

We had a flash in the pan good run in 2000 which saw us reach the Heineken Cup Final.

Ulster won the entire Heineken Cup in 1999 and (with all respect) they were very average for a long time after.

However the supporters base Munster had gave them money through jersey sales, it gave them a winning mentality at home, it made them a fashionable team with neutrals and with the television companys. It made overseas players want to come. It meant we could develop and upgrade. It also meant we could keep our big name players too and they enjoyed running out buoyed on by fans.

If you had a passionate fan base would there be as much desire for players to head off to France.

by Stone Motif Tue 14 May 2013, 1:26 pm

Who's optimistic? I think the regions are fecked personally, unless the WRU stance changes considerably. I just take issue with this national obsession we have with doing the regions down because they can't win HC's whilst being run on a shoestring fighting an apathetic WRU.

by Stone Motif Tue 14 May 2013, 1:30 pm

red_stag wrote:Stone,

I would list Munster as a team who achieved a lot based on their supporters base.

We had a flash in the pan good run in 2000 which saw us reach the Heineken Cup Final.

Ulster won the entire Heineken Cup in 1999 and (with all respect) they were very average for a long time after.

However the supporters base Munster had gave them money through jersey sales, it gave them a winning mentality at home, it made them a fashionable team with neutrals and with the television companys. It made overseas players want to come. It meant we could develop and upgrade. It also meant we could keep our big name players too and they enjoyed running out buoyed on by fans.

If you had a passionate fan base would there be as much desire for players to head off to France.

by Stone Motif Tue 14 May 2013, 1:31 pm

red_stag wrote:Stone,

I would list Munster as a team who achieved a lot based on their supporters base.

We had a flash in the pan good run in 2000 which saw us reach the Heineken Cup Final.

Ulster won the entire Heineken Cup in 1999 and (with all respect) they were very average for a long time after.

However the supporters base Munster had gave them money through jersey sales, it gave them a winning mentality at home, it made them a fashionable team with neutrals and with the television companys. It made overseas players want to come. It meant we could develop and upgrade. It also meant we could keep our big name players too and they enjoyed running out buoyed on by fans.

If you had a passionate fan base would there be as much desire for players to head off to France.

Yeah, nothing whatsoever to do with the way your team and indeed Irish rugby is funded, it's all down to Jersey sales.

by SecretFly Tue 14 May 2013, 1:33 pm

Sponsorship doesn't attract players or loyalty. Indeed, it's a pretty shabby investment plan too when you get down to the details.

Sponsors chase hope. Hope is an already enthusiastic fanbase added to an already ambitious (if not fully skilled) side. Sponsors sniff out hope, they don't bury money where they see lethargy and graveyard stands.

Stag is right, Munster did the business first (the tough bit of actually playing hard enough to win) gaining an increasing appreciative and emotional support because of it and then reaping sponsorship and financial benefits from that support later down the line. But they didn't sit on their hands waiting for money to start the ball rolling.

by **profitius** Tue 14 May 2013, 1:36 pm

red_stag wrote:Stone,

I just find it surprising how defeatist everyone is.

Munster won a Heineken Cup with Ian Dowling, Trevor Halstead, John Kelly, Anthony Horgan and Shaun Payne as its backline in 2006.

Even with my Munster hat on me I can admit thats a shoddy backline.

They were all good players but just lacked pace.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 14 May 2013, 1:39 pm

Stone Motif wrote:Who's optimistic? I think the regions are fecked personally, unless the WRU stance changes considerably. I just take issue with this national obsession we have with doing the regions down because they can't win HC's whilst being run on a shoestring fighting an apathetic WRU.

I am optemistic. The regions all seem to be assessing where they are weakest and starting to address the problems. The Dragons have a real issue in the tight five, but have now signed a tighthead and lock, who whilst within budget, seem to be steps above what is available to them at the moment. The Scarlets did the same last season, we cleared out all of our locks and brought in a few overseas boys, and a few welsh lads, and we managed to win a few matches through the forwards as opposed to with the backs. The Blues have noticed their front row is urine poor, and have brought in Jenkins and Rees to add experience and expertise to that area.

Whilst I am not a fan of the WRU or the direction they seem to want to head, I am not sure that we can pin all of the regions failing on them, well without sounding just like Team Wales fans blaming the regions when Team Wales play poorly (like during the AIs).

by red_stag Tue 14 May 2013, 1:41 pm

Stone,

Your being silly now.

Of course you need good players and coaching. However you have some excellent players and have had some excellent players over the last few years. Casey Laulala, Jerry Collins, Tommy Bowe, Kees Mews, Justin Marshall, Sean Lamont, Matt Cockbain, Marty Holah, Percy Montgomery. Not to mention most of Wales' best crop of players in the professional game.

A dedicated fan base supplements that. It can be the difference between a referee making a tight call under pressure from a fierce home crowd. It puts a few extra quid in the coffers and contributes to a general feel good factor.

It makes a great match day experience which encourages more people to come as they are there for the fun not just the rugby.

I saw someone above giving out about a child wearing a Cardiff soccer jersey at a Cardiff Blues game. Seriously warped priorities.

by Stone Motif Tue 14 May 2013, 2:02 pm

I'm not being silly, you can harp on about supporter bases as much as you like but the red line is the investment from your union in making the team (and Leinster - how were their crowds before they started winning stuff?) successful. I haven't got time to go digging for old accounts for the provinces but I can all but guarantee the income from supporters is far less than that from your union, ERC etc and always has been.

by LordDowlais Tue 14 May 2013, 2:07 pm

The support issue is a bit of a moot point, ok if the regions are successful they might drag in a few supporters more, but the fact is, there is TOO MUCH RUGBY in Wales for the fans to go around.

by Guest Tue 14 May 2013, 2:15 pm

LordDowlais wrote:The support issue is a bit of a moot point, ok if the regions are successful they might drag in a few supporters more, but the fact is, there is TOO MUCH RUGBY in Wales for the fans to go around.

That's not technically true. With kick off times for the Rabo seldom clashing with Welsh Prem games, that's not really an excuse. I've managed to play rugby on a Saturday in Usk and get down to RP in time for the Blues game and did the same from Senghenydd for the same game last season. If people want to do it, they'll do so.

by Guest Tue 14 May 2013, 2:18 pm

red_stag wrote:A dedicated fan base supplements that. It can be the difference between a referee making a tight call under pressure from a fierce home crowd. It puts a few extra quid in the coffers and contributes to a general feel good factor.

It makes a great match day experience which encourages more people to come as they are there for the fun not just the rugby.

I saw someone above giving out about a child wearing a Cardiff soccer jersey at a Cardiff Blues game. Seriously warped priorities.

If that was the case, Dragons would be doing a lot better than they are, as we offer a fun atmosphere and a good home support.

by LordDowlais Tue 14 May 2013, 2:19 pm

Risca Rev wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The support issue is a bit of a moot point, ok if the regions are successful they might drag in a few supporters more, but the fact is, there is TOO MUCH RUGBY in Wales for the fans to go around.

That's not technically true. With kick off times for the Rabo seldom clashing with Welsh Prem games, that's not really an excuse. I've managed to play rugby on a Saturday in Usk and get down to RP in time for the Blues game and did the same from Senghenydd for the same game last season. If people want to do it, they'll do so.

Let me just correct this for you, if people can afford to do it they'll do so, remember not everybody is lucky enough to have enough money to go and watch two or more rugby games a week, or even a month.

by Stone Motif Tue 14 May 2013, 2:28 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:Who's optimistic? I think the regions are fecked personally, unless the WRU stance changes considerably. I just take issue with this national obsession we have with doing the regions down because they can't win HC's whilst being run on a shoestring fighting an apathetic WRU.

I am optemistic. The regions all seem to be assessing where they are weakest and starting to address the problems. The Dragons have a real issue in the tight five, but have now signed a tighthead and lock, who whilst within budget, seem to be steps above what is available to them at the moment. The Scarlets did the same last season, we cleared out all of our locks and brought in a few overseas boys, and a few welsh lads, and we managed to win a few matches through the forwards as opposed to with the backs. The Blues have noticed their front row is urine poor, and have brought in Jenkins and Rees to add experience and expertise to that area.

Whilst I am not a fan of the WRU or the direction they seem to want to head, I am not sure that we can pin all of the regions failing on them, well without sounding just like Team Wales fans blaming the regions when Team Wales play poorly (like during the AIs).

I don't deny the regions have strengthened - to me the loss of Team Wales players doesn't weaken them at all as barring exceptions such as Toby Faletau they don't really offer value for money or contribute much on the pitch. But the point is relative to the other nations they are in a very weak situation.

by Guest Tue 14 May 2013, 2:31 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The support issue is a bit of a moot point, ok if the regions are successful they might drag in a few supporters more, but the fact is, there is TOO MUCH RUGBY in Wales for the fans to go around.

That's not technically true. With kick off times for the Rabo seldom clashing with Welsh Prem games, that's not really an excuse. I've managed to play rugby on a Saturday in Usk and get down to RP in time for the Blues game and did the same from Senghenydd for the same game last season. If people want to do it, they'll do so.

Let me just correct this for you, if people can afford to do it they'll do so, remember not everybody is lucky enough to have enough money to go and watch two or more rugby games a week, or even a month.

Again, at a tenner a potential max spend of £40 a month (two home games each for a club and region), it is possible to spend that if people wanted to. I wouldn't class myself as loaded, but because I want to attend, I find ways.

by LordDowlais Tue 14 May 2013, 2:44 pm

Risca Rev wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The support issue is a bit of a moot point, ok if the regions are successful they might drag in a few supporters more, but the fact is, there is TOO MUCH RUGBY in Wales for the fans to go around.

That's not technically true. With kick off times for the Rabo seldom clashing with Welsh Prem games, that's not really an excuse. I've managed to play rugby on a Saturday in Usk and get down to RP in time for the Blues game and did the same from Senghenydd for the same game last season. If people want to do it, they'll do so.

Let me just correct this for you, if people can afford to do it they'll do so, remember not everybody is lucky enough to have enough money to go and watch two or more rugby games a week, or even a month.

Again, at a tenner a potential max spend of £40 a month (two home games each for a club and region), it is possible to spend that if people wanted to. I wouldn't class myself as loaded, but because I want to attend, I find ways.

Seriously, what planet are you living on ? To watch most local sides, it's just a case of rocking on up to the club and standing on the sidelines, now some people, especially in the valley's prioritise kids school money or petrol money for work rather than squandering twenty pounds+ on going to watch their region.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 14 May 2013, 2:45 pm

Risca Rev wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The support issue is a bit of a moot point, ok if the regions are successful they might drag in a few supporters more, but the fact is, there is TOO MUCH RUGBY in Wales for the fans to go around.

That's not technically true. With kick off times for the Rabo seldom clashing with Welsh Prem games, that's not really an excuse. I've managed to play rugby on a Saturday in Usk and get down to RP in time for the Blues game and did the same from Senghenydd for the same game last season. If people want to do it, they'll do so.

Let me just correct this for you, if people can afford to do it they'll do so, remember not everybody is lucky enough to have enough money to go and watch two or more rugby games a week, or even a month.

Again, at a tenner a potential max spend of £40 a month (two home games each for a club and region), it is possible to spend that if people wanted to. I wouldn't class myself as loaded, but because I want to attend, I find ways.

I have people tell me that I must be better of than they are to afford a season ticket, but then I point out to them I go out drinking once or twice a month about £20 a time, whereas they go out on the pop four or five times a month at a min of £50-60 a time. It is all priorities etc. And sadly there are not enough people who prioritise rugby.

by LordDowlais Tue 14 May 2013, 2:45 pm

Also I should have added, twenty pounds+ to watch their region have their arris shown to them each week filled with sub standard NWQ players and inept coaching. Oh, and dodgey Irish refs. Run

by Guest Tue 14 May 2013, 2:50 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The support issue is a bit of a moot point, ok if the regions are successful they might drag in a few supporters more, but the fact is, there is TOO MUCH RUGBY in Wales for the fans to go around.

That's not technically true. With kick off times for the Rabo seldom clashing with Welsh Prem games, that's not really an excuse. I've managed to play rugby on a Saturday in Usk and get down to RP in time for the Blues game and did the same from Senghenydd for the same game last season. If people want to do it, they'll do so.

Let me just correct this for you, if people can afford to do it they'll do so, remember not everybody is lucky enough to have enough money to go and watch two or more rugby games a week, or even a month.

Again, at a tenner a potential max spend of £40 a month (two home games each for a club and region), it is possible to spend that if people wanted to. I wouldn't class myself as loaded, but because I want to attend, I find ways.

Seriously, what planet are you living on ? To watch most local sides, it's just a case of rocking on up to the club and standing on the sidelines, now some people, especially in the valley's prioritise kids school money or petrol money for work rather than squandering twenty pounds+ on going to watch their region.

Yeah, fair one. I'm constantly selling my kids down the river, telling them they can't have new clothes, lunch in school etc and driving my car on fumes, as I choose to prioritise Rugby over everything. There's always a way. Plenty of rugby supporters do it, as they want to do it.

by The Saint Tue 14 May 2013, 2:54 pm

Rev the horrible parent Laugh

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 14 May 2013, 3:00 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Also I should have added, twenty pounds+ to watch their region have their arris shown to them each week filled with sub standard NWQ players and inept coaching. Oh, and dodgey Irish refs.

To be fair, there are a fair number of substandard WQ players too.

by Welshmushroom Tue 14 May 2013, 3:02 pm

Not sure where this £20 is coming from. The real fans would have bought a season ticket during early bird offer and be watching them for around £8 which is about the same price as going to the cinema.

My issue with the Dragons is just down to the fact that given regionalism has been in effect for 10 years now, we are the only ones who cant seem to develop our own youngsters. Sure we are bringing in Amos & Dixon so at least that's something but our development pathways are no way near the Ospreys & Scarlets by contrast.

I don't mind the Dragons not winning the league but I do have a problem with Coaches taking the quick fix solution in a league where coming 5th or last makes no difference to the club in terms of reward. Given that we can all agree that Dragons wont be challenging for a top 4 spot what is the purpose of these signings? Its almost as if the Dragons are proud of the fact they have the smallest Welsh representation in Wales.

by Welshmushroom Tue 14 May 2013, 3:08 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Also I should have added, twenty pounds+ to watch their region have their arris shown to them each week filled with sub standard NWQ players and inept coaching. Oh, and dodgey Irish refs.

To be fair, there are a fair number of substandard WQ players too.

No doubt there. There are a number of sub standard welsh players at the Dragons who should be no where near pro rugby. Bottom line though the coach signs these players so the buck stops with him im afraid.

At this stage I actually think the Dragons should get "The Chief" to become headcoach at the Dragons. I'm certain he would toughen us up.

by **Notch** Tue 14 May 2013, 3:26 pm

The Saint wrote:
Notch wrote:Scarlets need to sign a creative centre, they desperately miss Regan King. They have no playmaker in their midfield and the absence of Priestland has underscored that. They definitely need a ball carrying 8 and another centre. Williams and Davies isn't a balanced combination.

Easterby has done a great job toughening up the Scarlets pack only to see a lack of invention and accuracy behind the scrum leaving a talented back three to wither on the vine. King has not been replaced and thats half their problems in the backline right there. But I definitely think Scarlets and Ospreys can be playoff contenders.

Notch they have Gareth Owen (he replaced Scott Williams against your beloved Ulster) who is very much in the mould of Gavin Henson. Adam Warren looks good as well. As I have recently stated, Williams and Davies will always start on reputation and not form. Shame. I do believe that Scarlets have a very good squad and Easterby hasn't got the best out of the players yet.

I was thinking about Owen, I think he needs to start at 12 consistently unless you can get someone better. People talk about the Scarlets backs, and they are loaded with talent. But there's very little invention or variety to their play.

by Stone Motif Tue 14 May 2013, 3:27 pm

Welshmushroom wrote:Not sure where this £20 is coming from. The real fans would have bought a season ticket during early bird offer and be watching them for around £8 which is about the same price as going to the cinema.

My issue with the Dragons is just down to the fact that given regionalism has been in effect for 10 years now, we are the only ones who cant seem to develop our own youngsters. Sure we are bringing in Amos & Dixon so at least that's something but our development pathways are no way near the Ospreys & Scarlets by contrast.

I don't mind the Dragons not winning the league but I do have a problem with Coaches taking the quick fix solution in a league where coming 5th or last makes no difference to the club in terms of reward. Given that we can all agree that Dragons wont be challenging for a top 4 spot what is the purpose of these signings? Its almost as if the Dragons are proud of the fact they have the smallest Welsh representation in Wales.

Weird post this...

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 14 May 2013, 3:33 pm

Notch wrote:
The Saint wrote:
Notch wrote:Scarlets need to sign a creative centre, they desperately miss Regan King. They have no playmaker in their midfield and the absence of Priestland has underscored that. They definitely need a ball carrying 8 and another centre. Williams and Davies isn't a balanced combination.

Easterby has done a great job toughening up the Scarlets pack only to see a lack of invention and accuracy behind the scrum leaving a talented back three to wither on the vine. King has not been replaced and thats half their problems in the backline right there. But I definitely think Scarlets and Ospreys can be playoff contenders.

Notch they have Gareth Owen (he replaced Scott Williams against your beloved Ulster) who is very much in the mould of Gavin Henson. Adam Warren looks good as well. As I have recently stated, Williams and Davies will always start on reputation and not form. Shame. I do believe that Scarlets have a very good squad and Easterby hasn't got the best out of the players yet.

I was thinking about Owen, I think he needs to start at 12 consistently unless you can get someone better. People talk about the Scarlets backs, and they are loaded with talent. But there's very little invention or variety to their play.

Gareth Owen?

by **Notch** Tue 14 May 2013, 3:36 pm

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 14 May 2013, 3:42 pm

I'm not a fan, Notch. He flattered to deceive at the Ospreys and he hasn't really shown much for the Scarlets. Maybe what he needs is a run in the side, but I don't rate him.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 14 May 2013, 3:43 pm

Gareth Owen is going to be pretty busy next season playing at fullback (Williams and Phillips on the wings), centre and fly half (so doom and gloom by some about Priestland's injury). Considering he is injury prone, and also deemed not up to standards by the Ospreys, there is a hell of a lot of people pinning their hopes on him.

by **Notch** Tue 14 May 2013, 4:50 pm

Well then you need to get a player like him and much, much better.

I'm not pinning my hopes on him btw- it suits me fine if you don't win anything next year Wink

by Kingshu Tue 14 May 2013, 4:58 pm

I thought Scarlets have got Steven Shingler in for 10,12,15.

if Priestland is at 10, surly Shingler at 12 is the creative centre you think they need notch?

by international197 Tue 14 May 2013, 5:33 pm

I think it all depends on how much money they [the regions] spend over the summer. I think they will be poorer next season if they splash out the cash, both financially and on the field. I want the regions to draw the line immediately and announce no new signings for next season. Then, they can start preparing with their squads. I think this is a vote of confidence for the existing players and would be psychologically good for players to know who their teammates are as early as possible. Also, they could start planning financially, marketing and get to grips with training earlier. It's what I want, I think anyone who enjoys the regions spending money would probably disagree with me, however I sincerely want them to do it. I think we have 4 good regions and 4 good squads, I really don't want any of them going insolvent for spending hundreds of thousands of pounds on players that they don't need, and that day [of insolvency] could be fast approaching if we're not careful. The Scarlets have finished fourth, the Ospreys fifth, the Blues ninth and the Dragons eleventh. I don't believe this is poor at all. Faith in the squads early on for next season and I believe another welsh region will make it to the top four again and maybe they'll break even financially.

by Cardiff Dave Tue 14 May 2013, 5:57 pm

international197 wrote:I think it all depends on how much money they [the regions] spend over the summer. I think they will be poorer next season if they splash out the cash, both financially and on the field. I want the regions to draw the line immediately and announce no new signings for next season. Then, they can start preparing with their squads. I think this is a vote of confidence for the existing players and would be psychologically good for players to know who their teammates are as early as possible. Also, they could start planning financially, marketing and get to grips with training earlier. It's what I want, I think anyone who enjoys the regions spending money would probably disagree with me, however I sincerely want them to do it. I think we have 4 good regions and 4 good squads, I really don't want any of them going insolvent for spending hundreds of thousands of pounds on players that they don't need, and that day [of insolvency] could be fast approaching if we're not careful. The Scarlets have finished fourth, the Ospreys fifth, the Blues ninth and the Dragons eleventh. I don't believe this is poor at all. Faith in the squads early on for next season and I believe another welsh region will make it to the top four again and maybe they'll break even financially.

Are you on a wind up or what?

by **Notch** Tue 14 May 2013, 7:31 pm

Kingshu wrote:I thought Scarlets have got Steven Shingler in for 10,12,15.

if Priestland is at 10, surly Shingler at 12 is the creative centre you think they need notch?

Sounds good. He's no Regan King but considering their resources, players of the calibre of Regan King and George North are beyond them for the time being.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 15 May 2013, 7:48 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
international197 wrote:I think it all depends on how much money they [the regions] spend over the summer. I think they will be poorer next season if they splash out the cash, both financially and on the field. I want the regions to draw the line immediately and announce no new signings for next season. Then, they can start preparing with their squads. I think this is a vote of confidence for the existing players and would be psychologically good for players to know who their teammates are as early as possible. Also, they could start planning financially, marketing and get to grips with training earlier. It's what I want, I think anyone who enjoys the regions spending money would probably disagree with me, however I sincerely want them to do it. I think we have 4 good regions and 4 good squads, I really don't want any of them going insolvent for spending hundreds of thousands of pounds on players that they don't need, and that day [of insolvency] could be fast approaching if we're not careful. The Scarlets have finished fourth, the Ospreys fifth, the Blues ninth and the Dragons eleventh. I don't believe this is poor at all. Faith in the squads early on for next season and I believe another welsh region will make it to the top four again and maybe they'll break even financially.

Are you on a wind up or what?

In an ideal world, the Welsh regions would fill the top four places in the Pro12 table; but this is a tough league and it's getting tougher. Someone has to finish ninth, someone has to finish eleventh.

Following the PWC report, the regions have committed to living within their means. They also receive less money from their governing body than the Irish provinces and, I understand, than the Scottish and Irish sides get from theirs. Sustainability might end up leading to mid-table finishes being the norm and we might have to get used to it.

by Cardiff Dave Wed 15 May 2013, 9:40 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
international197 wrote:I think it all depends on how much money they [the regions] spend over the summer. I think they will be poorer next season if they splash out the cash, both financially and on the field. I want the regions to draw the line immediately and announce no new signings for next season. Then, they can start preparing with their squads. I think this is a vote of confidence for the existing players and would be psychologically good for players to know who their teammates are as early as possible. Also, they could start planning financially, marketing and get to grips with training earlier. It's what I want, I think anyone who enjoys the regions spending money would probably disagree with me, however I sincerely want them to do it. I think we have 4 good regions and 4 good squads, I really don't want any of them going insolvent for spending hundreds of thousands of pounds on players that they don't need, and that day [of insolvency] could be fast approaching if we're not careful. The Scarlets have finished fourth, the Ospreys fifth, the Blues ninth and the Dragons eleventh. I don't believe this is poor at all. Faith in the squads early on for next season and I believe another welsh region will make it to the top four again and maybe they'll break even financially.

Are you on a wind up or what?

In an ideal world, the Welsh regions would fill the top four places in the Pro12 table; but this is a tough league and it's getting tougher. Someone has to finish ninth, someone has to finish eleventh.

Following the PWC report, the regions have committed to living within their means. They also receive less money from their governing body than the Irish provinces and, I understand, than the Scottish and Irish sides get from theirs. Sustainability might end up leading to mid-table finishes being the norm and we might have to get used to it.

I certainly wouldn't, from a Cardiff perspective that is.
At last, good things are happening at Cardiff and they are marketing their low rent prized asset (which they didn't while wasting ££££££s at CCS) and making money out of the place. A new pitch will only improve matters as will the new Sky deal and i'm sure at some stage the current WRU/RRW impasse will be sorted in some shape or form, hopefully. Then we can put an end to this self imposed salary cap nonsense and away we go.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 15 May 2013, 9:45 am

I'd rather we ran ourselves as proper businesses rather than spending money we don't have and going breasts up.

by Cardiff Dave Wed 15 May 2013, 9:51 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'd rather we ran ourselves as proper businesses rather than spending money we don't have and going breasts up.

Which is what Cardiff are doing now being back at CAP and with Richard Holland on board.

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 15 May 2013, 9:54 am

That's good. It shouldn't be jeopardised.

by Seagultaf Sat 18 May 2013, 11:18 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Gareth Owen is going to be pretty busy next season playing at fullback (Williams and Phillips on the wings), centre and fly half (so doom and gloom by some about Priestland's injury). Considering he is injury prone, and also deemed not up to standards by the Ospreys, there is a hell of a lot of people pinning their hopes on him.

I agree Owen's best position is 15 but Liam Williams is a much better 15 than wing also, and don't forget Shingler has played a lot at 15. Phillips is just not up to pro rugby, he has no appetite for defence so must be discarded for someone with some pace and bottle.

If the Scarlet's don't recruit a couple of tidy wings they will be playing centres or fullback out of position outwide. A bit of a stepdown when you consider that just a year ago they had; North, Lamont, Stoddard and Fenby to chose from!

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