Future European Comp

by broadlandboy Mon 20 May 2013, 10:16 pm

Progress made when ERC not involved.http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/may/20/heineken-cup-tv-deal

by HammerofThunor Mon 20 May 2013, 10:39 pm

So finally we know (probably) that the money would be split 'three' ways. I assume the PRO12 unions involved in the HEC will decide how they split the money between the four of them.

Interesting that the last two spots will be based on playoffs. I suppose since they won't be involved in the league playoffs they'll have some free weekends at the end of the season.

We'll have to see if it pans out as 'agreed in principle'.

by The Great Aukster Mon 20 May 2013, 11:03 pm

Hardly surprising that when the body being shafted is missing from negotiations, there is less objection!

Sounds like the AP and the T14 want even more teams and more money at the expense of the P12 Unions - no change there. This kind of win/lose deal is hardly "progress", so this non-story just reinforces the forecast that the future for any European Competition looks as bleak as ever.

by broadlandboy Mon 20 May 2013, 11:23 pm

Seems that the ERC had a bit of self interest that got in the way when the bodies that it is supposed to be represent can come to an agreement without it's presence

by red_stag Tue 21 May 2013, 7:22 am

How will the playoffs work if there are 6 teams?

by Portnoy's Complaint Tue 21 May 2013, 7:31 am

I'm assuming 4 - 7&8th from each of the Amlin and HEC winners' leagues.

I see the glass ceiling is now sealed and double glazed as the T2 leagues are cut adrift from entry? Or will the Amlin still admit non-franglo/Rabolites?

Good to see a T3 trophy.

Hate the 20-team format that perpetuates the G-O-D scenario and home ties for 'best' pool winners.

by Kingshu Tue 21 May 2013, 8:47 am

I'll wait to see if it appears in an Irish paper, don't think that the IRFU would agree to this, long way of the top 8 we thought it would be, and splitting the money so IRFU recieves less, Still a long long way to run on this I think.

by Manu's Boxing Coach Tue 21 May 2013, 8:58 am

Why don't you believe an English paper? Strange.

by Portnoy's Complaint Tue 21 May 2013, 9:03 am

Kingshu wrote:I'll wait to see if it appears in an Irish paper, don't think that the IRFU would agree to this, long way of the top 8 we thought it would be, and splitting the money so IRFU recieves ~~less~~ more , Still a long long way to run on this I think.

by Kingshu Tue 21 May 2013, 9:33 am

Not going to get into arguments that have been done over and over greytiger.

It says "top six in that previous season's Aviva Premiership, Top 14 and RaboDirect Pro 12"

but if its top 6 from Pro 12 that goes against about the only thing that was agreed, that every country would be represented in the tournament.

Lets see what Sky sport reports?

by asoreleftshoulder Tue 21 May 2013, 11:23 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/news-comment/stalemate-threatens-european-deadline-8622413.html

It's hard to know what the truth is when there as such wildly conficting stories about.

by HammerofThunor Tue 21 May 2013, 11:30 am

Is it just me or is the original Guardian article no longer available? I wonder if they've had someone official tell them it was Love sacks

by Portnoy's Complaint Tue 21 May 2013, 11:46 am

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/may/20/heineken-cup-tv-deal works for me.

Although maybe it's in my cache.

[ed] But just in case

An emergency meeting called before the Heineken Cup final in Dublin produced a breakthrough in the bid to save the tournament, but the signing of any accord still hinges on the destination of the television contract.

The meeting on Saturday, which included the unions involved as well as the English and French clubs, saw agreement in principle that after next season the Heineken Cup should be reduced from 24 teams to 20 with the spare four taking part in an enhanced Amlin Challenge Cup. There would also be a third tournament for teams from tier-two nations such as Russia, Romania, Spain and Georgia.

The 20 teams in the Heineken Cup would be made up of the top six in that previous season's Aviva Premiership, Top 14 and RaboDirect Pro 12 with the profits shared equally by the three leagues. The other two places would not go to the holders and the winners of the Amlin Cup, but would be decided by a play-off involving the sides who finished seventh and eighth in their respective divisions.

The French Rugby Federation arranged the meeting, which did not include the tournament oragnisers, European Rugby Cup Ltd. The FFR acted as a catalyst in frustration at the lack of progress made in meetings of ERC's stakeholders at the end of last year. The last official meeting convened was back in December, and while there has been shuttle diplomacy since then, the French feared that clubs would go into next season not knowing if there were places in the Heineken Cup to play for.

The French and English clubs served notice they were pulling out last June. They said they would not sign a new accord unless there was a radical change in the way the European tournaments were organised: they wanted qualification for the Heineken Cup to become meritocratic and a shakeup in how proceeds were split.

Other innovations proposed were clubs having the greatest say on the ERC board and the tournament headquarters being moved from Dublin, but the television contract could prevent the new deal being agreed.

The response of ERC was to agree a contract extension with the tournament broadcasters, Sky. A few months later, Premiership Rugby announced a £150m deal with BT Vision that included provision for a European tournament.

Premiership Rugby's position is that if Sky remain the broadcasters, the involvement of the English clubs in the Heineken Cup after next season will end. Its contention is that the extension with Sky has no legal validity because ERC, given the notice served by clubs in England and France, did not have a tournament to sell.

"There is no Heineken Cup after next season," said an English club official. "What we are talking about is building a new tournament structured in a different way. We are not going to be forced into anything that the clubs are unhappy with and the French feel the same way. Progress was made at the meeting in Dublin but it will all come down to the television contract.

"The deal we have with BT Vision will generate so much extra revenue that even though the money would be split equally between the three leagues, the Celtic countries and Italy will receive more than they do now. They may be getting smaller slices but the cake will be far bigger."

The next step will be on 5 June when ERC has a scheduled meeting of its board of directors in Dublin. The future of the Heineken Cup will be high on the agenda.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 21 May 2013, 11:53 am

"...The 20 teams in the Heineken Cup would be made up of the top six in that previous season's Aviva Premiership, Top 14 and RaboDirect Pro 12 with the profits shared equally by the three leagues. The other two places would not go to the holders and the winners of the Amlin Cup, but would be decided by a play-off involving the sides who finished seventh and eighth in their respective divisions."

So top 6 in each of the 3 leagues, so that would be 18 teams, and then a play off for 7th and 8th place to see who else make it in, so that would be another 3. 18+3=21, or does that mean the Jeff and T14, get additional places at the cost of the Rabo teams? Seems like a bit of a screw job.

by Portnoy's Complaint Tue 21 May 2013, 12:02 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:"...The 20 teams in the Heineken Cup would be made up of the top six in that previous season's Aviva Premiership, Top 14 and RaboDirect Pro 12 with the profits shared equally by the three leagues. The other two places would not go to the holders and the winners of the Amlin Cup, but would be decided by a play-off involving the sides who finished seventh and eighth in their respective divisions."

So top 6 in each of the 3 leagues, so that would be 18 teams, and then a play off for 7th and 8th place to see who else make it in, so that would be another 3. 18+3=21, or does that mean the Jeff and T14, get additional places at the cost of the Rabo teams? Seems like a bit of a screw job.

Playoffs between the 7/8s of the winners' leagues - not all three.

Presumably if one league supplies both winners then they get 8 teams?

It all depends if the PRL has been organising it or not. If they have it'll be a complete codpiece made out of ephemeral gossamer.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 21 May 2013, 12:07 pm

That makes far more sense.

Interesting side note, going by those thar rules, next season the Rabo would enter -: Ulster, Leinster, Glasgow, Scarlets, Ospreys, Munster & the winner of Treviso/Connacht (two teams people moan about being in there).

by HammerofThunor Tue 21 May 2013, 12:11 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/news-comment/stalemate-threatens-european-deadline-8622413.html

It's hard to know what the truth is when there as such wildly conficting stories about.

The Guardian article is from Monday about a meeting on Saturday. The Independent one is from Sunday about things said 'last week'. So they're not conflicting although it does suggest a major shift. However in the Guardian article there are no real quotes so it's all just leaked by someone. We'll see.

by Dubbelyew L Overate Tue 21 May 2013, 12:36 pm

More articles being published:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/euro-d-day-looms-for-scots-clubs-1-2938172

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/domestic-club-rugby-union/european-cup/9528/french-act-to-head-off-revolt-over-heineken-cup/

The Scotsman doesn't add much, but The Rugby Paper, which was their lead article in Sunday's edition, puts a different complexion on the negotiations.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 21 May 2013, 1:19 pm

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:More articles being published:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/euro-d-day-looms-for-scots-clubs-1-2938172

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/domestic-club-rugby-union/european-cup/9528/french-act-to-head-off-revolt-over-heineken-cup/

The Scotsman doesn't add much, but The Rugby Paper, which was their lead article in Sunday's edition, puts a different complexion on the negotiations.

Sounds to me like they were reporting two completely different meetings! Shocked

French clubs told to get in line and sort their shizzle out by the FFR or else they will be replaced in an ongoing competition with the Italo-Celts (and England if they come to the party)

by red_stag Tue 21 May 2013, 1:22 pm

Would an interleague playoff be better?

Treviso v Bayonne
Perpignan v Connacht

by Portnoy's Complaint Tue 21 May 2013, 1:35 pm

Or maybe three french sides and one rabo one if you are unpicking the un-knitted resolution?

by HammerofThunor Tue 21 May 2013, 1:46 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:More articles being published:

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/euro-d-day-looms-for-scots-clubs-1-2938172

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/domestic-club-rugby-union/european-cup/9528/french-act-to-head-off-revolt-over-heineken-cup/

The Scotsman doesn't add much, but The Rugby Paper, which was their lead article in Sunday's edition, puts a different complexion on the negotiations.

Sounds to me like they were reporting two completely different meetings! French clubs told to get in line and sort their shizzle out by the FFR or else they will be replaced in an ongoing competition with the Italo-Celts (and England if they come to the party)

To honest it's not much of a threat. The lower teams in the T14 are pretty Poopie. Never mind the guys in the league below that. If people aren't interested in the Amlin they certainly won't be interested in that.

Then you have the wonder chance of legal action by the French and English clubs saying their unions won't allow them to form a completition with other members of the EU. Basically saying that the unions aren't allowing them to do business with another EU business.

However, it won't come that. It'll be some form of compromise between what each party wants (probably last minute). At least the rugby paper has some actual quotes. And they were from the head of the French clubs (seeming) to say that missing out on the HEC may be a bigger deal now (the way it is put across was that lossing the 4 clubs would be detrimental).

by debaters1 Tue 21 May 2013, 1:47 pm

"The other two places would not go to the holders and the winners of the Amlin Cup, but would be decided by a play-off involving the sides who finished seventh and eighth in their respective divisions."

Sorry, unless I am being ultra stupid, that implies all three leagues so we'd have a 6 way play off between the 7th & 8th sides for 2 places.

So how would that work exactly?! There being 14 sides in the Top 14 (captain State the obvious here!), even if you could compare points finishes directly (and that would cue some huge arguments on here!) you could not use such points finishes as a tie breaker to knock one of the 7th place teams (because Im guessing people are on the meritocracy vibe after all) down to play an 8th place side for the honour of playing one of the awaiting 7th place sides for a play off to see who gets one of the two spaces.

That ridiculously clumsey method at least ensures no team plays more than 2 extra games at the end of their season. Hwever, what happens to that play off should one or more of the team be involved in an Amlin or ERC Final? Regardless of them winning that competition and not being there the next season by right because they finished 7th in their league, they are massively disadvantaged in having to play off after a HC or Amlin final when their oppoants have had 3 or 4 weeks off to lick their wounds and ready thier side.

OR:

Internal 7/8 playoffs will leave you with 3 teams for two places. A round robin "One-off tournie" with neutral venue matches mean 3 games in total, with potential 4th as a tie breaker. Not to mention the advantage of being the non-playing side for the first game (presumably done by lots?!)

What a crock of male bovine faeces I'm afraid.

by HammerofThunor Tue 21 May 2013, 1:50 pm

The respective divisions bit could be the respective divesions of the HEC and ACC winners.

by debaters1 Tue 21 May 2013, 2:06 pm

Perhaps Hound, but that means that there could be 8 English or French sides (or indeed, 2 Scottish or Italian sides in the HCs which would be great for the diversity aspect) which I like about the HC, but hardly fair on Welsh or Irish teams whose compatriots would not benefit the way French and English sides would in such circumstances.

by Kingshu Tue 21 May 2013, 2:18 pm

The guardian article did sould like the English demands had all been given into, with nothing gained for the Celts/Italians.

Top 6 in each league, and money split 33% to each league, no mention of any unions getting at least one place, etc etc, basically everything Premier Rugby Ltd wanted.

No mention of final dates being changed as French wanted, or anything the pro 12 unions wished.

The FFR intrevention is intresting.

Could it lead to a 2 tier Europe were French regions, play the Provinces andWelsh regions (like super rugby) and the French clubs play the English clubs? could lead to a power struggle in Europe,

by **Notch** Tue 21 May 2013, 2:28 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:So finally we know (probably) that the money would be split 'three' ways. I assume the PRO12 unions involved in the HEC will decide how they split the money between the four of them.

If anyone has agreed to that they need shooting furious

Six unions, two get a third each and four get a third between them. Aye, that'll be right. What is in that article is in no way a compromise and if we've agreed to that, well. Not great.

by SecretFly Tue 21 May 2013, 2:30 pm

So another watertight agreement on the future of European rugby has been written in stone - again - without the presence of Pro12 team reps or Unions?

Well, I'm delighted that's settled. It was going on too long. Someone had to decide for the little people. Congrats to all the big players.

by **Notch** Tue 21 May 2013, 2:33 pm

This is so bad for the game it's not even funny.

The reduced TV revenue could kill rugby stone dead in Italy, Scotland, Wales and Ireland if our leading provinces dip in standards. It's a deal for the money men with all the smaller players getting short shrift and it will hasten the decline of the regions and cap Italian and Scottish growth before it even begins. It will create a two-speed Pro12 with those with qualifying money at the top and those without at the bottom and make the league less competitive. It will affect the national teams of all concerned and put more pressure on teams to invest in foreign talent to be successful.

There is nothing good for rugby in what is happening here.

by nathan Tue 21 May 2013, 2:33 pm

SecretFly wrote:So another watertight agreement on the future of European rugby has been written in stone - again - without the presence of Pro12 team reps or Unions?

Well, I'm delighted that's settled. It was going on too long. Someone had to decide for the little people. Congrats to all the big players.

??????

"The meeting on Saturday, which included the unions involved as well as the English and French clubs"

by nathan Tue 21 May 2013, 2:34 pm

Notch wrote:This is so bad for the game it's not even funny.

The reduced TV revenue could kill rugby stone dead in Italy, Scotland, Wales and Ireland if our leading provinces dip in standards.

Did you read the article?

It says everyone would be getting more money but it would be a smaller slice of a bigger pie.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue 21 May 2013, 2:36 pm

Notch wrote:This is so bad for the game it's not even funny.

The reduced TV revenue could kill rugby stone dead in Italy, Scotland, Wales and Ireland if our leading provinces dip in standards.

Notch, who cares? It's clear that certain parties involved have absolutely no interest in maintaining the standard of competition - bad, terrible day for rugby if true furious

by **Notch** Tue 21 May 2013, 2:38 pm

nathan wrote:
Notch wrote:This is so bad for the game it's not even funny.

The reduced TV revenue could kill rugby stone dead in Italy, Scotland, Wales and Ireland if our leading provinces dip in standards.

Did you read the article?

It says everyone would be getting more money but it would be a smaller slice of a bigger pie.

Yeah, I did, it's a screw job. The English and French are enlarging their slice of the pie and giving the other four unions the leftovers to fight over.

by nathan Tue 21 May 2013, 2:39 pm

Notch wrote:
nathan wrote:
Notch wrote:This is so bad for the game it's not even funny.

The reduced TV revenue could kill rugby stone dead in Italy, Scotland, Wales and Ireland if our leading provinces dip in standards.

Did you read the article?

It says everyone would be getting more money but it would be a smaller slice of a bigger pie.

Yeah, I did, it's a screw job. The English and French are enlarging their slice of the pie and giving the other four unions the leftovers to fight over.

It says that everyone will be getting more money even though it's a smaller slice of the money.

by Guest Tue 21 May 2013, 2:41 pm

Looks like they are getting down to the brass tacks at last.
The jobs for the boys at the ERC look like being the biggest casualty. These two potential play off places looks an unsatisfactory fudge but might be the compromise for all sides in order to get a deal. The financial percentages change but all sides will still get more in absolute terms rather than the current, those contributing the least number of teams getting the most.

The bigger picture seems to be clubs / franchises running the competition rather than the Unions going forward. That is far more interesting development.

by Portnoy's Complaint Tue 21 May 2013, 2:41 pm

Notch wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:So finally we know (probably) that the money would be split 'three' ways. I assume the PRO12 unions involved in the HEC will decide how they split the money between the four of them.

If anyone has agreed to that they need shooting

Six unions, two get a third each and four get a third between them. Aye, that'll be right. What is in that article is in no way a compromise and if we've agreed to that, well. Not great.

This is a club competition though Notch. Not one for Unions, but participating leagues share the spoils evenly.

[ed] I suppose the Rabo unions could still allocate at least one team from each though.

by HammerofThunor Tue 21 May 2013, 2:42 pm

I think it's pretty clear from the various articles on the matter it's still not sorted (or at least if it has we don't know how). The only quotes of substance are from chainman of the LNR (French clubs) who said

We are going to get back into negotiation,” Goze said before the Dublin summit. “Between us, we have got to make sure that we have a clear understanding of the French position.

“But, first, we have got to get out of this confusion over television rights. All the discussions have been difficult because of this problem. I want this problem to be fixed by the end of the summer.

“The most important thing is that we need to have a real European Cup. I am not sure that four teams less is such a big deal. Five or six years ago I would have said it was not a big deal not to play in the European Cup.

“But now the competition really is part of the season. It would be very bad not to participate in the European Cup.

“The negotiations will be difficult but I am not worried about the long-term outcome. All parties will be able to agree before the deadline to ensure that after 2014 the competition will continue to be one of rugby’s real forces.”

Now this was before the summit so we have nothing whatsoever after it. One article says one thing has been agreed. Another says that it's not and the French are going to give. But the only stuff related to agreements are based on 'someone's told us' so not really clear.

If this is the deal who pisses you off more? The English and French for asking for more or your unions for ageeing a hell of a lot of changes (for more money)?

by **Notch** Tue 21 May 2013, 2:42 pm

Recwatcher wrote:The bigger picture seems to be clubs / franchises running the competition rather than the Unions going forward. That is far more interesting development.

Thats why its such a disaster. Look at French rugby and the French national team to see what happens when the Union gets sidelined.

by SecretFly Tue 21 May 2013, 2:44 pm

It's not about f**king money.

Sorry for the language but this really is getting on for Mafia talk sometimes. "Hey, we're giving you more money to keep your nose out of our controlling affairs. So you might have a tougher time getting to play against us (French and English) in the playoffs and finals...but yis 'ill have more money."

It's not about money - it's about participation. Participation at the business end of Europe generates its own money. That's a better way to earn it.

by nathan Tue 21 May 2013, 2:45 pm

Notch wrote:
Recwatcher wrote:The bigger picture seems to be clubs / franchises running the competition rather than the Unions going forward. That is far more interesting development.

Thats why its such a disaster. Look at French rugby and the French national team to see what happens when the Union gets sidelined.

Look at the Welsh regions and the lack of help the WRU are providing.

by nathan Tue 21 May 2013, 2:47 pm

SecretFly wrote:It's not about f**king money.

Sorry for the language but this really is getting on for Mafia talk sometimes. "Hey, we're giving you more money to keep your nose out of our controlling affairs. So you might have a tougher time getting to play against us (French and English) in the playoffs and finals...but yis 'ill have more money."

It's not about money - it's about participation. Participation at the business end of Europe generates its own money. That's a better way to earn it.

What rubbish, of courses it's also about money. Do you think clubs will be participating at the business end of the season at all when they haven't the funds for a decent squad to compete at the business end of the league.

by SecretFly Tue 21 May 2013, 2:48 pm

WRU have offered to help but the Regions don't want help with strings attached. That's what a Union is..Help with strings. They don't foot shoot and throw away money for fun.

by LordDowlais Tue 21 May 2013, 2:49 pm

Either way, it looks as though the Celts and the Italians are going to get monumentally shafted over this, I hope for the love of god, just for once the WRU get things right and have every base covered when it comes to these negotiations, although I cannot see it. Rolling Eyes

by **Notch** Tue 21 May 2013, 2:49 pm

greytiger wrote:
Notch wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:So finally we know (probably) that the money would be split 'three' ways. I assume the PRO12 unions involved in the HEC will decide how they split the money between the four of them.

If anyone has agreed to that they need shooting

Six unions, two get a third each and four get a third between them. Aye, that'll be right. What is in that article is in no way a compromise and if we've agreed to that, well. Not great.
This is a club competition though Notch. Not one for Unions, but participating leagues share the spoils evenly.

We don't have clubs tiger. All the provinces are are branches of the Union. You know this.

Whats its going to do is make our league like your failed leagues- it will upset the balance with regards to importing foreign talent with pressure exerted to qualify whatever the cost and create a cosy cartel of wealthier teams who are ever present at the top of the table while the have nots are perpetually stuck at the bottom. But I doubt interest is there for some of the Pro12 teams at the bottom to sustain this even more hopeless situation.

This Anglo-French screwjob is going to severely damage professional rugby elsewhere in Europe and English and French fans don't give a feck. I get that. But we have a right to be angry.

by SecretFly Tue 21 May 2013, 2:50 pm

nathan wrote:
SecretFly wrote:It's not about f**king money.

Sorry for the language but this really is getting on for Mafia talk sometimes. "Hey, we're giving you more money to keep your nose out of our controlling affairs. So you might have a tougher time getting to play against us (French and English) in the playoffs and finals...but yis 'ill have more money."

It's not about money - it's about participation. Participation at the business end of Europe generates its own money. That's a better way to earn it.

What rubbish, of courses it's also about money. Do you think clubs will be participating at the buesiness end of the season at all when they haven't the funds for a decent squad to compete at the business end of the league.

They're doing fine now...the teams that put in the effort Wink

You take the bribe money and die a slow death if that's the party you want to go to. Others will decide how they judge the 'keep quiet' cheques.

by nathan Tue 21 May 2013, 2:54 pm

SecretFly wrote:
nathan wrote:
SecretFly wrote:It's not about f**king money.

Sorry for the language but this really is getting on for Mafia talk sometimes. "Hey, we're giving you more money to keep your nose out of our controlling affairs. So you might have a tougher time getting to play against us (French and English) in the playoffs and finals...but yis 'ill have more money."

It's not about money - it's about participation. Participation at the business end of Europe generates its own money. That's a better way to earn it.

What rubbish, of courses it's also about money. Do you think clubs will be participating at the buesiness end of the season at all when they haven't the funds for a decent squad to compete at the business end of the league.

They're doing fine now...the teams that put in the effort You take the bribe money and die a slow death if that's the party you want to go to. Others will decide how they judge the 'keep quiet' cheques.

They're being who? last time i checked it was only the irish who were constantly in the knock out stages. Welsh regions seem to be looking for the financial death bed, We've already had one italian team fold. Lets hope the unions/clubs go into these meetings being a little less stubborn that you.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 21 May 2013, 2:57 pm

SecretFly wrote:WRU have offered to help but the Regions don't want help with strings attached. That's what a Union is..Help with strings. They don't foot shoot and throw away money for fun.

Not quite as simple as you put it. The WRU offered to pay centralisted contracts, but pull the existing funding to the regions to pay for it, which is a bit like saying to a kid that they can have that comic they want, but will not be getting any more pocket money! But that is a differnet issue for a different thread.

by Kingshu Tue 21 May 2013, 3:04 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Either way, it looks as though the Celts and the Italians are going to get monumentally shafted over this, I hope for the love of god, just for once the WRU get things right and have every base covered when it comes to these negotiations, although I cannot see it.

If the IRFU,SRU,FIR and WRU stick together I think it will end up being ok for all of them, some teams will be in Almin etc etc.

However my worry is the WRU are pressured to let the regions join the Jeff, or something. If WRU break away it'll be bad news for everyone, but if they stick together then they are in a position of strength.

by SecretFly Tue 21 May 2013, 3:06 pm

nathan wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
nathan wrote:
SecretFly wrote:It's not about f**king money.

Sorry for the language but this really is getting on for Mafia talk sometimes. "Hey, we're giving you more money to keep your nose out of our controlling affairs. So you might have a tougher time getting to play against us (French and English) in the playoffs and finals...but yis 'ill have more money."

It's not about money - it's about participation. Participation at the business end of Europe generates its own money. That's a better way to earn it.

What rubbish, of courses it's also about money. Do you think clubs will be participating at the buesiness end of the season at all when they haven't the funds for a decent squad to compete at the business end of the league.

They're doing fine now...the teams that put in the effort You take the bribe money and die a slow death if that's the party you want to go to. Others will decide how they judge the 'keep quiet' cheques.

They're being who? last time i checked it was only the irish who were constantly in the knock out stages. Welsh regions seem to be looking for the financial death bed, We've already had one italian team fold. Lets hope the unions/clubs go into these meetings being a little less stubborn that you.

the ones that put in the effort...I told you that the first time. There is always an excuse for more money (before we start doing the winning Whistle

) And by God, don't the big English and French clubs realise that about some of the little minnows. That's why the idea of 'money' gets a mention more than the idea of just what a fair shot at the HC actually means. Money makes people with strong principles wobble. And when enough of them wobble, as saliva pours from their lips, the unity of purpose falls apart and it's every man for himself.

You're damn right I'm stubborn. I hope the Pro12 Unions are stubborn too - this is a corporate buy-out attempt, and some of the investor chickens are indeed quawking at the potential of more money for less influence.

by LordDowlais Tue 21 May 2013, 3:07 pm

Nathan, as you can see, all the Celts on here are up in arms over this huge fiasco, so, could you tell me, what good can come out of this for all the unions that are involved ? As I can only see the French and English gaining from it, and that is only if they get what the English union are proposing, I thought that originally it was just the French wanting the competition changed, it was nothing to do with money, they just did not want the HC clashing with their league any more, so what are the motives behind all this ?

by Sponsored content