Points Spy - French Open
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Tennis
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Points Spy - French Open
Live Rank | Orig Rank | Player | Orig Points | Drop Points | Gain Points | Live Points | Live Movement | Current Status | Next Opponent |
1 | 1 | N. Djokovic [SRB] | 12310 | 1200 | 720 | 11830 | Eliminated - SF | ||
2 | 2 | A. Murray [GBR] | 8670 | 360 | 0 | 8310 | Did Not Play | ||
3 | 3 | R. Federer [SUI] | 8000 | 720 | 360 | 7640 | Eliminated - QF | ||
4 | 5 | D. Ferrer [ESP] | 6740 | 720 | 1200 | 7220 | Up 1 | Eliminated - Final | |
5 | 4 | R. Nadal [ESP] | 6895 | 2000 | 2000 | 6895 | Down 1 | Champion | |
6 | 6 | T. Berdych [CZE] | 4685 | 180 | 10 | 4515 | Eliminated - R128 | ||
7 | 8 | J. Tsonga [FRA] | 3795 | 360 | 720 | 4155 | Up 1 | Eliminated - SF | |
8 | 7 | J. Del Potro [ARG] | 4320 | 360 | 0 | 3960 | Down 1 | Did Not Play | |
9 | 9 | R. Gasquet [FRA] | 3090 | 180 | 180 | 3090 | Eliminated - R16 | ||
10 | 10 | S. Wawrinka [SUI] | 2630 | 180 | 360 | 2810 | Eliminated - QF | ||
11 | 14 | T. Haas [GER] | 2340 | 115 | 360 | 2585 | Up 3 | Eliminated - QF | |
12 | 11 | M. Cilic [CRO] | 2570 | 90 | 90 | 2570 | Down 1 | Eliminated - R32 | |
13 | 15 | K. Nishikori [JPN] | 2315 | 0 | 180 | 2495 | Up 2 | Eliminated - R16 | |
14 | 12 | J. Tipsarevic [SRB] | 2480 | 180 | 90 | 2390 | Down 2 | Eliminated - R32 | |
15 | 16 | M. Raonic [CAN] | 2225 | 90 | 90 | 2225 | Up 1 | Eliminated - R32 | |
16 | 13 | N. Almagro [ESP] | 2375 | 360 | 180 | 2195 | Down 3 | Eliminated - R16 | |
17 | 18 | G. Simon [FRA] | 1895 | 90 | 180 | 1985 | Up 1 | Eliminated - R16 | |
18 | 19 | P. Kohlschreiber [GER] | 1750 | 45 | 180 | 1885 | Up 1 | Eliminated - R16 | |
19 | 20 | S. Querrey [USA] | 1730 | 10 | 90 | 1810 | Up 1 | Eliminated - R32 | |
20 | 17 | J. Monaco [ARG] | 1910 | 180 | 10 | 1740 | Down 3 | Eliminated - R128 | |
Selected Others: | |||||||||
23 | 25 | K. Anderson [RSA] | 1420 | 90 | 180 | 1510 | Up 2 | Eliminated - R16 | |
27 | 34 | T. Robredo [ESP] | 1095 | 20 | 360 | 1435 | Up 7 | Eliminated - QF | |
30 | 31 | M. Youzhny [RUS] | 1265 | 90 | 180 | 1355 | Up 1 | Eliminated - R16 | |
45 | 57 | V. Troicki [SRB] | 800 | 45 | 180 | 935 | Up 12 | Eliminated - R16 |
- Djokovic cannot be caught at #1
- Federer needed to reach the final to claim #2 back from Murray, but lost in the QF.
- Ferrer guaranteed the #4 spot by reaching the final.
- Berdych had an opportunity to close the gap on the group above him, but lost in the first round to Monfils.
- Del Potro did not play, and drops 360pts from a QF last year. This made him an enticing target for the chasing pack below, and Tsonga gobbled up that chance, overtaking the Argentine by reaching the SF.
Last edited by Cogen on Mon 10 Jun 2013, 4:33 pm; edited 20 times in total
Cogen- Posts : 334
Join date : 2013-01-21
Re: Points Spy - French Open
Up and running
The Points Spy website, including the Wind Down, has also been updated.
Enjoy.
The Points Spy website, including the Wind Down, has also been updated.
Enjoy.
Cogen- Posts : 334
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Cogen.. Excellent, as usual.
laverfan- Moderator
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Wow, Berdych out... and there I was tipping him to possibly upset Federer and reach the final...
Cogen- Posts : 334
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Superb work as usual I suppose one positive for Berdych is that unless Tsonga makes the final, he stays at number 6.
The Special Juan- Posts : 20900
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
I didn't realise Federer would only regain no.2 if he reaches the final. I thought it was a bit closer than that between him and Murray.
Great article Cogen.
Great article Cogen.
Danny_1982- Posts : 3233
Join date : 2011-06-01
Re: Points Spy - French Open
Looks like Monfils might have another weekly best ranking rise
Great to see him back, no reason why he can't get back into at least the Top 20
Iv'e missed his 'frog in a blender' type Tennis
Great to see him back, no reason why he can't get back into at least the Top 20
Iv'e missed his 'frog in a blender' type Tennis
banbrotam- Posts : 3374
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Fed's early Madrid exit cost him points from memory, hence why there is a bit of a gap between himself and Murray. Fed is defending 2,890 points over next month between RG, Halle & Wimby.
Nadal is relly going to have a free pass to No. 2 by year end, possibly even No.1 given he is defending 2090 points as we speak, a win at RG and he he is very likely to pick up lots of point wherever he plays thereafter.
Nadal is relly going to have a free pass to No. 2 by year end, possibly even No.1 given he is defending 2090 points as we speak, a win at RG and he he is very likely to pick up lots of point wherever he plays thereafter.
debaters1- Posts : 601
Join date : 2011-04-26
Re: Points Spy - French Open
"Nadal is relly going to have a free pass to No. 2 by year end, possibly even No.1"
Slightly overstating it - I think he is in a battle for #2 for Murray with an outside chance of #1. He lost his last 5 non-clay matches (in 2011 and the AO 2012) against Djokovic.
Slightly overstating it - I think he is in a battle for #2 for Murray with an outside chance of #1. He lost his last 5 non-clay matches (in 2011 and the AO 2012) against Djokovic.
Henman Bill- Posts : 5265
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
I agree HB, No. 1 will be tough, but it the number of points that he will gain by making with mere semi-final appearances, that with others defending big points, Murray 2000 at the US, Nole 1,200 and a Master Title, that the 2 and 1 slots are up for grabs, not least that whatever about Novak v Rafa H2H these days, Novak is losing to guys he didn't last year and in 2011.
So his slight (and i really mean SLIGHT) drop in level coupled with Rafa having zero points to defend post Wimby, leave him open in that regard. Rafa would, of course, have to earn the No. 1 spot but it is slightly easier to do so when you are a top calibre player with nothing to defend for 5 months.
So his slight (and i really mean SLIGHT) drop in level coupled with Rafa having zero points to defend post Wimby, leave him open in that regard. Rafa would, of course, have to earn the No. 1 spot but it is slightly easier to do so when you are a top calibre player with nothing to defend for 5 months.
debaters1- Posts : 601
Join date : 2011-04-26
Re: Points Spy - French Open
Table back up to date.
The biggest loser of the tournament has to be Goffin, who will drop from to #58 to around #84; a drop of approx 26 places. He reached the fourth round, plus qualifying points from last year, but lost in the first round to Djokovic this year and faces a net drop of 186 points.
Monaco also teetering on the edge of the top 20 after losing in round one. He could drop out if Isner wins another couple of matches or Janowicz makes the QFs.
The biggest loser of the tournament has to be Goffin, who will drop from to #58 to around #84; a drop of approx 26 places. He reached the fourth round, plus qualifying points from last year, but lost in the first round to Djokovic this year and faces a net drop of 186 points.
Monaco also teetering on the edge of the top 20 after losing in round one. He could drop out if Isner wins another couple of matches or Janowicz makes the QFs.
Cogen- Posts : 334
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Bad news for Go-Fan. He'll be back into Challengers then.
Good work Cogen
Good work Cogen
lydian- Posts : 9178
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Added in any players who've made the last 16, cos its when the points start getting serious.
Cogen- Posts : 334
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Now that the final 16 are all locked in, lets have a look at what each of them has to gain for the remainder of the tournament.
These are maximum rankings. Sometimes they might end up slightly lower, if the people they were predicted to overtake also have further victories of their own.
Name | Started At | > | Currently | > | Reach QF | Reach SF | Reach Final | Win Title |
Djokovic | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | ||
Federer | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 | ||
Ferrer | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 3 | ||
Nadal | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | ||
Tsonga | 8 | 8 | 8 | 7 | 6 | 5 | ||
Gasquet | 9 | 9 | 9 | 8 | 7 | 6 | ||
Wawrinka | 10 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 8 | 7 | ||
Nishikori | 15 | 12 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 7 | ||
Haas | 14 | 13 | 11 | 10 | 9 | 7 | ||
Almagro | 13 | 16 | 15 | 10 | 9 | 7 | ||
Simon | 18 | 17 | 17 | 12 | 10 | 8 | ||
Kohlschreiber | 19 | 18 | 17 | 13 | 10 | 8 | ||
Anderson | 25 | 23 | 22 | 17 | 12 | 9 | ||
Youzhny | 31 | 29 | 23 | 18 | 15 | 9 | ||
Robredo | 34 | 32 | 27 | 20 | 15 | 10 | ||
Troicki | 57 | 45 | 35 | 25 | 18 | 10 |
Cogen- Posts : 334
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Wow, what a cool table.!
Took me a minute to work it out but looks like green refers to an increase in ranking by advancing a round, white to staying the same, red to declining depsite advancing a round presumably due to bigger points to defend.
Took me a minute to work it out but looks like green refers to an increase in ranking by advancing a round, white to staying the same, red to declining depsite advancing a round presumably due to bigger points to defend.
Henman Bill- Posts : 5265
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Tsonga, berdych and Del Potro just aren't catching Ferrer. The four players I see at the same level but statistically that just isn't the case, Ferrer has been maintaining a clear gap for a while now. I had expected Del Potro to get back to 5 and even challenge for 4 but he looks less like doing it at the moment.
Henman Bill- Posts : 5265
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
With Haas dealing Youzhny a crushing defeat, (didn't actually see the match, but it certainly looks that way by the scoreline), Robredo is now the only man ranked outside the top 20 remaining in the draw...
Come on the Tommys!
Come on the Tommys!
Cogen- Posts : 334
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
That Saturday post is amazing cogen!
Lord knows how you do it but very glad you do!
Lord knows how you do it but very glad you do!
lydian- Posts : 9178
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Well well well. Federer out to Tsonga. That means Tsonga will overtake Del Potro when the rankings are released.
So we have a Tsonga vs Ferrer semi-final. Huge for both of them. If Tsonga wins he'll pass Berdych. If Ferrer wins, he'll lock down the #4 spot, and have a shot at #3 in the final.
I'm sure at this point they're both firmly focused on their first slam title rather than the rankings, though!
So we have a Tsonga vs Ferrer semi-final. Huge for both of them. If Tsonga wins he'll pass Berdych. If Ferrer wins, he'll lock down the #4 spot, and have a shot at #3 in the final.
I'm sure at this point they're both firmly focused on their first slam title rather than the rankings, though!
Cogen- Posts : 334
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Cogen wrote:Well well well. Federer out to Tsonga. That means Tsonga will overtake Del Potro when the rankings are released.
So we have a Tsonga vs Ferrer semi-final. Huge for both of them. If Tsonga wins he'll pass Berdych. If Ferrer wins, he'll lock down the #4 spot, and have a shot at #3 in the final.
I'm sure at this point they're both firmly focused on their first slam title rather than the rankings, though!
Well Tsonga can go ahead of Rafa if he wins the title and Rafa knocked out by Djoko in the semi's right?
invisiblecoolers- Posts : 4963
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
If Ferrer wins he will be above Fed!
JuliusHMarx- julius
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
JuliusHMarx wrote:If Ferrer wins he will be above Fed!
If Tsonga wins he will be above Nadal.
invisiblecoolers- Posts : 4963
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Tsonga can only go above Nadal if Stan beats Rafa tomorrow.
Born Slippy- Posts : 4464
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
I have to ask you Cogen, for the player pictures on Points Spy, did you pick a photo where the player is fistpumping on purpose or is it a massive coincidence?
The Special Juan- Posts : 20900
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Querrey looks like he's doing the "Black Power" movement or whatever from the 60's.
And Cilic has a bit of the Bruce Forsyth's about him.
And Cilic has a bit of the Bruce Forsyth's about him.
ryan86- Posts : 976
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Haha, yes, I'm glad you noticed... the fist-pump theme is very much intentional!
The first few pics I grabbed for the top guys were all fist pumps, so I thought I better keep them as a matching set.
The first few pics I grabbed for the top guys were all fist pumps, so I thought I better keep them as a matching set.
Cogen- Posts : 334
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
It's a great theme! Raonic looks vaguely constipated, Almagro has clearly seen something unspeakably terrifying in the crowd, and Nishikori seems to have won the lottery
Can't give you enough plaudits for your site Cogen, you've done an amazing job with it. Incredibly helpful, thank you.
Can't give you enough plaudits for your site Cogen, you've done an amazing job with it. Incredibly helpful, thank you.
Silver- Posts : 1813
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
I love the theme too. In the words of Gary Busey from Family Guy "Keep it up!"
The Special Juan- Posts : 20900
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Cogen do you have any idea the general Wimbledon seedings?
Djokovic
Federer?
Murray?
Nadal?
Ferrer
Tsonga
Berdych
Potro
Gasquet
Djokovic
Federer?
Murray?
Nadal?
Ferrer
Tsonga
Berdych
Potro
Gasquet
CJB- Posts : 5762
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Good question, CJB.
Obviously, yes, Djokovic is a long way ahead and will be seeded #1, but we can't nail down the numbers for Nadal, Ferrer and Tsonga at the moment as there are a lot of points still up for grabs in the next few days which could be game changing.
Lets look at Federer and Murray in the battle for #2 seeding.
The formula for Wimbledon seedings is: official points total + 100% of grass points in the last 12 months + 75% of points for best grass result in previous 12 months.
Murray:
8310
+1200 (Wimbledon '12)
+750 (Olympics '12)
+540 (75% of Wimbledon '11)
= 10800
Federer:
7640
+2000 (Wimbledon '12)
+450 (Olympics '12)
+270 (75% of Wimbledon '11)
= 10360
So, it looks like Murray hangs on to #2 seeding. I haven't included Fed's 150pts from Halle last year, because as I understand it, by the time the seedings are calculated that tournament will be outside the 12-month window.
The gap is only 440pts though. If I'm not mistaken, that is a gap which Federer could potentially overcome. If he wins 250 points in Halle this year, he'd get the 100% bonus, making it worth 500 points.
Edit: As Born Slippy pointed out below, Federer will of course drop his 150 Halle points from his total before Wimbledon seedings are calculated, so that gap will be greater than 500 points. Murray will definitely be seeded 2nd... as long as he plays...
Obviously, yes, Djokovic is a long way ahead and will be seeded #1, but we can't nail down the numbers for Nadal, Ferrer and Tsonga at the moment as there are a lot of points still up for grabs in the next few days which could be game changing.
Lets look at Federer and Murray in the battle for #2 seeding.
The formula for Wimbledon seedings is: official points total + 100% of grass points in the last 12 months + 75% of points for best grass result in previous 12 months.
Murray:
8310
+1200 (Wimbledon '12)
+750 (Olympics '12)
+540 (75% of Wimbledon '11)
= 10800
Federer:
7640
+2000 (Wimbledon '12)
+450 (Olympics '12)
+270 (75% of Wimbledon '11)
= 10360
So, it looks like Murray hangs on to #2 seeding. I haven't included Fed's 150pts from Halle last year, because as I understand it, by the time the seedings are calculated that tournament will be outside the 12-month window.
The gap is only 440pts though. If I'm not mistaken, that is a gap which Federer could potentially overcome. If he wins 250 points in Halle this year, he'd get the 100% bonus, making it worth 500 points.
Edit: As Born Slippy pointed out below, Federer will of course drop his 150 Halle points from his total before Wimbledon seedings are calculated, so that gap will be greater than 500 points. Murray will definitely be seeded 2nd... as long as he plays...
Last edited by Cogen on Thu 06 Jun 2013, 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total
Cogen- Posts : 334
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
We could also take a quick look at Ferrer and Nadal's bonuses to give us an idea of what might happen.
Ferrer:
+360 (Wimbledon'12)
+250 (s-Hertogenbosch '12 ... This drops on 24th June, I think it will still be within 12 months when seedings are done)
+70 (Olympics '12)
+135 (75% of Wimbledon '11)
= 815 bonus.
Nadal:
+45 (Wimbledon '12)
+900 (75% of Wimbledon '11)
= 945 bonus.
So Nadal has a slight edge on the bonus, but nothing huge. If Nadal retains his French Open title, and Ferrer loses to Tsonga, then Nadal will probably be #4 seed. But if Ferrer reaches the final, or Nadal doesn't win the title, then Ferrer will be #4 seed.
If Ferrer could pull off a miracle and win the French, then he'd go up to #3 in the world, but he'd only pass Federer by 380pts, and the grass court bonuses of Federer and Murray would ensure they are still seeded above Ferrer.
Ferrer:
+360 (Wimbledon'12)
+250 (s-Hertogenbosch '12 ... This drops on 24th June, I think it will still be within 12 months when seedings are done)
+70 (Olympics '12)
+135 (75% of Wimbledon '11)
= 815 bonus.
Nadal:
+45 (Wimbledon '12)
+900 (75% of Wimbledon '11)
= 945 bonus.
So Nadal has a slight edge on the bonus, but nothing huge. If Nadal retains his French Open title, and Ferrer loses to Tsonga, then Nadal will probably be #4 seed. But if Ferrer reaches the final, or Nadal doesn't win the title, then Ferrer will be #4 seed.
If Ferrer could pull off a miracle and win the French, then he'd go up to #3 in the world, but he'd only pass Federer by 380pts, and the grass court bonuses of Federer and Murray would ensure they are still seeded above Ferrer.
Cogen- Posts : 334
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Ok... you've twisted my arm... we'll take a gander at Berdych and Tsonga too.
Berdych:
+10 (Wimbledon '12)
+5 (Olympics '12)
+135 (75% of Wimbledon '11)
= 150 bonus.
Tsonga:
+720 (Wimbledon '12)
+135 (Olympics '12)
+540 (75% of Wimbledon '11)
= 1395 bonus.
Tsonga's bonus is massive in comparison to Berdych (didn't realise his results were so poor on grass!) so, yes, Tsonga will be seeded above Berdych, even if he loses his semi at the French Open.
If Djokovic beats Nadal in their semi, and Tsonga reaches the final, he'll still trail Nadal by about a thousand points, so his 450pt bonus advantage would not be enough to change things.
But should Tsonga beat Djokovic in the final, he'd only be 180pts behind Nadal in the rankings, and with the inclusion of the bonus he would end up seeded above Nadal, unless Nadal could earn some big points in the grass court warm-ups.
Berdych:
+10 (Wimbledon '12)
+5 (Olympics '12)
+135 (75% of Wimbledon '11)
= 150 bonus.
Tsonga:
+720 (Wimbledon '12)
+135 (Olympics '12)
+540 (75% of Wimbledon '11)
= 1395 bonus.
Tsonga's bonus is massive in comparison to Berdych (didn't realise his results were so poor on grass!) so, yes, Tsonga will be seeded above Berdych, even if he loses his semi at the French Open.
If Djokovic beats Nadal in their semi, and Tsonga reaches the final, he'll still trail Nadal by about a thousand points, so his 450pt bonus advantage would not be enough to change things.
But should Tsonga beat Djokovic in the final, he'd only be 180pts behind Nadal in the rankings, and with the inclusion of the bonus he would end up seeded above Nadal, unless Nadal could earn some big points in the grass court warm-ups.
Cogen- Posts : 334
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
In relation to Murray/Federer, I think you also need to remove the Halle points from Fed's overall total, as I presume they will drop before the seedings are done. That increases the gap above 500 points.
Born Slippy- Posts : 4464
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
As always, nice work cogen, very informative
lydian- Posts : 9178
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Born Slippy wrote:In relation to Murray/Federer, I think you also need to remove the Halle points from Fed's overall total, as I presume they will drop before the seedings are done. That increases the gap above 500 points.
... This is what happens when you try and do calculations at 4am! Cheers
lydian wrote:As always, nice work cogen, very informative
Only informative when I get it right...
Cogen- Posts : 334
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Thank you Cogen
CJB- Posts : 5762
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
So, by reaching the final, Ferrer has put himself in prime position to be seeded above Nadal at Wimbledon. Winning the title in Halle would pop Rafa back up there, but otherwise the seedings will probably be as follows:
1) Djokovic
2) Murray
3) Federer
4) Ferrer
5) Nadal
6) Tsonga
7) Berdych
8) Del Potro
1) Djokovic
2) Murray
3) Federer
4) Ferrer
5) Nadal
6) Tsonga
7) Berdych
8) Del Potro
Cogen- Posts : 334
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Come on Nadal, Djokovic and Federer (and Berdych) in the opposite half of Murray's draw!!
The Special Juan- Posts : 20900
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
When is the seeding for SW? If Nadal plays and wins Halle, or Queens (assuming he wins RG) or that matter can he fetch Ferrer? I suspect no, but I'm asking anyway?
kingraf- raf
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
How many 250s are added to your countibles again?
kingraf- raf
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
I've been thinking.
Could Wimbledon give Fed the two seed and demote Murray to 3?
Could Wimbledon give Fed the two seed and demote Murray to 3?
Dave.- Posts : 2648
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
I think Cogen's comments yesterday at 3.44 already answered this
Henman Bill- Posts : 5265
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Ahh so he did.
Cogen
Cogen
Dave.- Posts : 2648
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Interesting quirk of the current ranking system how Rafa could win the tournament and fall a place in the rankings. I believe Sampras even lost the #1 ranking to Agassi after beating him in the 1999 Wimbledon final, because he only equalled his previous year points, but Agassi beat his.
Henman Bill- Posts : 5265
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Jeez he answered it word for word. Should never skim through...
kingraf- raf
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Yes HB - I remember in 2011, when Djokovic was to be crowned world #1, regardless of the Final result. Nadal could have been the world #2 while in possesion of RG, W, and USO had he won.
kingraf- raf
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Cogen wrote:So, by reaching the final, Ferrer has put himself in prime position to be seeded above Nadal at Wimbledon. Winning the title in Halle would pop Rafa back up there, but otherwise the seedings will probably be as follows:
1) Djokovic
2) Murray
3) Federer
4) Ferrer
5) Nadal
6) Tsonga
7) Berdych
8) Del Potro
It doesn't really matter, coz Djoko - Rafa gonna be the semi's and Fed - Murray gonna be the other semi, Ferrer in Rafa's quarter, Del Potro in Fed's quarter, Berdych in Djoko's quarter and Tsonga in Murray's quarter.
invisiblecoolers- Posts : 4963
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Cogen, am I right in thinking that the only way Federer can stay above Ferrer is by winning Wimbledon?
ryan86- Posts : 976
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Re: Points Spy - French Open
Nadal would also be on his rear-view mirror. A SF for Nadal and I think Fed is in real trouble of becoming world #5. Especially since he has some Olympic points he will not defend.
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