Lions v Barbarians (Official Match Thread)

[mrzimmerman]

First topic message reminder :

The team has been named. What do you think? Predictions for the match?

British & Irish Lions:
S Hogg (Scotland); A Cuthbert (Wales), J Davies (Wales), J Roberts (Wales), S Maitland (Scotland); O Farrell (England), M Phillips (Wales); M Vunipola (England), R Hibbard (Wales), A Jones (Wales), R Gray (Scotland), P O’Connell (Ireland, capt), D Lydiate (Wales), J Tipuric (Wales), T Faletau (Wales).

Replacements: T Youngs (England), C Healy (Ireland), M Stevens (England), A W Jones (Wales), J Heaslip (Ireland), C Murray (Ireland), J Sexton (Ireland), G North (Wales).


Barbarians:
15 Jared Payne, 14 Joe Rokocoko, 13 Elliot Daly, 12 Casey Laulala, 11 Taku Ngwenya, 10 Nick Evans, 9 Dimitri Yachvili, 8 Sergio Parisse,
7 Sam Jones, 6 Samu Manoa, 5 Dean Mumm, 4 Marco Wentzel, 3 Martin Castrogiovanni, 2 Schalk Brits, 1 Paul James.

Replacements: 16 Leonardo Ghiraldini, 17 Duncan Jones, 18 Jim Hamilton, 19 Imanol Harinordoquy, 20 Andrea Lo Cicero, 21 Kahn Fotuali'i, 22 James Hook, 23 Mike Tindall.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Are you trying to say O'Driscoll isn't an attacking threat on his own? That he has to rely on others to break the line?

Wow, I really do wonder about your perception of certain players bluesman. I really do.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Also, just to let you know, O'Driscoll is actually even bulkier than Fofana (and only one inch smaller) and he is very strong in contact. He regularly punches well above his weight in both attack and defence.

[thebluesmancometh]

Are you trying to say O'Driscoll isn't an attacking threat on his own? That he has to rely on others to break the line?

Wow, I really do wonder about your perception of certain players bluesman. I really do.

Attacking threat is exactly what BOD is, but he rarely breaks the line himself these days, he is a wiley old goat who recognises he hasn't the pace or acceleration for test rugby and uses what he has to his advantage. Theres no insult there, so no need to be precious.

Saying BOD is in any way a match for Fofana though when it comes to movement is so much more than laughable

[thebluesmancometh]

Also, just to let you know, O'Driscoll is actually even bulkier than Fofana (and only one inch smaller) and he is very strong in contact. He regularly punches well above his weight in both attack and defence.

BOD is the better in contact by a mile

[SecretFly]

One game down and the bullshitt hits the fan already?

Away we go!

[SecretFly]

Also glad to hear Fofana has joined the Lions. About time the French were let in.

[thebluesmancometh]

One game down and the bullshitt hits the fan already?

Away we go!

What bullshitt, we are discussing BOD's ability to move better than Fofana, which I think is quite interesting.

I was chatting the other day with a Dublin mate, and he claimed BOD was probably quicker than Cuthbert and Bowe

[SecretFly]

Well blues he was pretty much exploding from many places in the latter stages of Pro12. He'll be okay...if he's okay...like the lot of them.

Cuthbert and Bowe are wings, aren't they? They're also quicker than Warburton,maybe one of them should be Captain

[Rory_Gallagher]

Are you trying to say O'Driscoll isn't an attacking threat on his own? That he has to rely on others to break the line?

Wow, I really do wonder about your perception of certain players bluesman. I really do.

Attacking threat is exactly what BOD is, but he rarely breaks the line himself these days, he is a wiley old goat who recognises he hasn't the pace or acceleration for test rugby and uses what he has to his advantage. Theres no insult there, so no need to be precious.

Saying BOD is in any way a match for Fofana though when it comes to movement is so much more than laughable

I said BOD was more similar in style to Fofana than Davies, which he is. That is what you apparently found so funny. BOD may have lost some pace but he is still quicker off the mark than many other centres in world rugby, believe it or not. With fantastic footwork. Even at the age of 33. He still regularly beats defenders. Fofana is obviously in his physical prime being 10 years younger, just incase you think I am suggesting otherwise.

So what are we arguing about again?

[thebluesmancometh]

Well blues he was pretty much exploding from many places in the latter stages of Pro12. He'll be okay...if he's okay...like the lot of them.

Cuthbert and Bowe are wings, aren't they? They're also quicker than Warburton,maybe one of them should be Captain

But then I'm not the one claiming BOD and Fofana are similar types of players.

Your attempts to disrupt mate are tiresome, add to the discussion or go away.

Which is BOD and Fofana have similar physical attributes... go

[SecretFly]

Well blues he was pretty much exploding from many places in the latter stages of Pro12. He'll be okay...if he's okay...like the lot of them.

Cuthbert and Bowe are wings, aren't they? They're also quicker than Warburton,maybe one of them should be Captain

But then I'm not the one claiming BOD and Fofana are similar types of players.

Your attempts to disrupt mate are tiresome, add to the discussion or go away.

Which is BOD and Fofana have similar physical attributes... go

I have added to the discussion, blues... All of three "tiresome" posts so far.

I'll decide how pertinent they are to the discussion. I think they're fine.... they'll stay. And so will I.

Lots of happy people after the first game, I see. I'm sorry I missed it now.

[thebluesmancometh]

Are you trying to say O'Driscoll isn't an attacking threat on his own? That he has to rely on others to break the line?

Wow, I really do wonder about your perception of certain players bluesman. I really do.

Attacking threat is exactly what BOD is, but he rarely breaks the line himself these days, he is a wiley old goat who recognises he hasn't the pace or acceleration for test rugby and uses what he has to his advantage. Theres no insult there, so no need to be precious.

Saying BOD is in any way a match for Fofana though when it comes to movement is so much more than laughable

I said BOD was more similar in style to Fofana than Davies, which he is. That is what you apparently found so funny. BOD may have lost some pace but he is still quicker off the mark than many other centres in world rugby, believe it or not. With fantastic footwork. Even at the age of 33. He still regularly beats defenders. Fofana is obviously in his physical prime being 10 years younger, just incase you think I am suggesting otherwise.

So what are we arguing about again?

I think your confusing acceleration for pace, BOD's ok when he gets going, but his acceleration is similar to most forwards these days, and I can send many links on acceleration losses in older athletes due to training methods...

Watch BOD closely, if he threatens the line it's coming onto the ball, not at a standstill and in no way can he match acceleration of Davies. He may be able to match balance and Agility however as Davies gait is pretty poor and he doesn't change direction very quickly. BOD's acceleration is below par for an int 13, as is Roberts.

Any comparison to any of the Lions centres to Fofana though is silly!!

[thebluesmancometh]

Well blues he was pretty much exploding from many places in the latter stages of Pro12. He'll be okay...if he's okay...like the lot of them.

Cuthbert and Bowe are wings, aren't they? They're also quicker than Warburton,maybe one of them should be Captain

But then I'm not the one claiming BOD and Fofana are similar types of players.

Your attempts to disrupt mate are tiresome, add to the discussion or go away.

Which is BOD and Fofana have similar physical attributes... go

I have added to the discussion, blues... All of three "tiresome" posts so far.

I'll decide how pertinent they are to the discussion. I think they're fine.... they'll stay. And so will I.

Lots of happy people after the first game, I see. I'm sorry I missed it now.

Well as much as I disagree with Rory he is at least discussing facts and opinions, there isn't any ill feeling toward him, whereas you are merely trying to insight and mock, shame really because I had you as a better poster than that, but you are sounding t1000 esque

[Rory_Gallagher]

No, I definitely mean acceleration. BOD is still extremely quick off the mark with great agility.

[SecretFly]

Well blues he was pretty much exploding from many places in the latter stages of Pro12. He'll be okay...if he's okay...like the lot of them.

Cuthbert and Bowe are wings, aren't they? They're also quicker than Warburton,maybe one of them should be Captain

But then I'm not the one claiming BOD and Fofana are similar types of players.

Your attempts to disrupt mate are tiresome, add to the discussion or go away.

Which is BOD and Fofana have similar physical attributes... go

I have added to the discussion, blues... All of three "tiresome" posts so far.

I'll decide how pertinent they are to the discussion. I think they're fine.... they'll stay. And so will I.

Lots of happy people after the first game, I see. I'm sorry I missed it now.

Well as much as I disagree with Rory he is at least discussing facts and opinions, there isn't any ill feeling toward him, whereas you are merely trying to insight and mock, shame really because I had you as a better poster than that, but you are sounding t1000 esque

I can read blues. I know what I wrote and I know what you wrote. You disagree with who you like and get chirpy or spikey with who you want (including me) I'll decide how long I stay and what I choose to say here. If you're in a sensitive post-Lions game mood that's your business...don't drop the mood on me.

[thebluesmancometh]

Who's in the mood? your the one here to mock and insight, maybe your feeling a little down because of Welsh bias that Sky sports wanted to focus on constantly?

So I disagree with who I like, and get chirpy with who I want?

Am I not allowed to disagree? Or should certain posters not be challenged?

For your though Fly I will concede, BOD is far quicker and agile than Fofana, and is infact god

[123456789]

BOD is without doubt the most skilful centre in the world and, being a centre, I would much rather play Fofana, Davies, Tuilagi and Roberts than BOD (not that I'd get near any of them) because he has the ability to make you look stupid. But, from my own perspective, I'd say he hasn't got the pace and agility that he used to have, what is true is that he's more similar to Fofana to Davies who relies on power and an extremely competent kicking game.
Gatland has picked four different centres, Tuilagi is compact and powerful, Roberts' footwork and power, Davies is direct and has a good kicking game and BOD is the complete centre and has evolved over time from a running centre to a skilful centre with an amazing skillset who now maybe lacks the out and out pace.

[ChequeredJersey]

BOD is without doubt the most skilful centre in the world and, being a centre, I would much rather play Fofana, Davies, Tuilagi and Roberts than BOD (not that I'd get near any of them) because he has the ability to make you look stupid. But, from my own perspective, I'd say he hasn't got the pace and agility that he used to have, what is true is that he's more similar to Fofana to Davies who relies on power and an extremely competent kicking game.
Gatland has picked four different centres, Tuilagi is compact and powerful, Roberts' footwork and power, Davies is direct and has a good kicking game and BOD is the complete centre and has evolved over time from a running centre to a skilful centre with an amazing skillset who now maybe lacks the out and out pace.

Be careful, that's what we call Kiwi-baiting...

[SecretFly]

Who's in the mood? your the one here to mock and insight, maybe your feeling a little down because of Welsh bias that Sky sports wanted to focus on constantly?

So I disagree with who I like, and get chirpy with who I want?

Am I not allowed to disagree? Or should certain posters not be challenged?

For your though Fly I will concede, BOD is far quicker and agile than Fofana, and is infact god

You missed most of my lines in your red haze of excited defensiveness, blues. I'll repeat the one that I didn't see the game, so I'm sorry I missed out on the juicy "Welsh bias that Sky sports wanted to focus on constantly". Quite pointed then that you felt the need to bring it up, considering I could never have alluded to it myself Is that 'bias' responsible for your 'edge' now? Waiting for the first Irish or English guy to mention it? Ready with your ammo? Trigger pulled?

By the way, challenge me as much as you want - you've never been shy there anyway, have you? And then go back and check out who told whom to get lost when he was challenged.

But enjoy the rest of your chat now, blues. I'll add more to this topic maybe later in the week if I manage to catch a replay or highlights.

[thebluesmancometh]

Who's in the mood? your the one here to mock and insight, maybe your feeling a little down because of Welsh bias that Sky sports wanted to focus on constantly?

So I disagree with who I like, and get chirpy with who I want?

Am I not allowed to disagree? Or should certain posters not be challenged?

For your though Fly I will concede, BOD is far quicker and agile than Fofana, and is infact god

You missed most of my lines in your red haze of excited defensiveness, blues. I'll repeat the one that I didn't see the game, so I'm sorry I missed out on the juicy "Welsh bias that Sky sports wanted to focus on constantly". Quite pointed then that you felt the need to bring it up, considering I could never have alluded to it myself Is that 'bias' responsible for your 'edge' now? Waiting for the first Irish or English guy to mention it? Ready with your ammo? Trigger pulled?

By the way, challenge me as much as you want - you've never been shy there anyway, have you? And then go back and check out who told whom to get lost when he was challenged.

But enjoy the rest of your chat now, blues. I'll add more to this topic maybe later in the week if I manage to catch a replay or highlights.

It has been mentioned and widely criticised, including myself. Barnes wouldn't stop highlighting how good this was for Welsh rugby
And you didn't challenge my opinion, you attempted to mock and insight an argue amongst a pretty interesting argument.

Your assuming too much and losing more amongst the text mate

[Cyril]

Calm down dears.

[123456789]

BOD is without doubt the most skilful centre in the world and, being a centre, I would much rather play Fofana, Davies, Tuilagi and Roberts than BOD (not that I'd get near any of them) because he has the ability to make you look stupid. But, from my own perspective, I'd say he hasn't got the pace and agility that he used to have, what is true is that he's more similar to Fofana to Davies who relies on power and an extremely competent kicking game.
Gatland has picked four different centres, Tuilagi is compact and powerful, Roberts' footwork and power, Davies is direct and has a good kicking game and BOD is the complete centre and has evolved over time from a running centre to a skilful centre with an amazing skillset who now maybe lacks the out and out pace.

Be careful, that's what we call Kiwi-baiting...

Didn't want them to feel left out seeing as we're playing the best team in Australasia this summer, I can't wait to see the best fly-half ever, King Quade, pull on the Gold shirt and challenge the Lions but it's a real shame the greatest openside David Pocock won't make the tour.

Do you think that will do it?

[ChequeredJersey]

You forgot to mention that the 2 best fullbacks in the world (Halfpenny and Beale) could be facing off against each other

[123456789]

You forgot to mention that the 2 best fullbacks in the world (Halfpenny and Beale) could be facing off against each other

Oh Shoite of course, not to mention there's a reason that Gold is more valuable than Coal!

[ChequeredJersey]

Also a Wallaby would kick a Kiwi's arse in a fight.



And a Lion would eat them both. Shame we haven't toured New Zealand since 1993, right?

[SecretFly]

It has been mentioned and widely criticised, including myself. Barnes wouldn't stop highlighting how good this was for Welsh rugby
And you didn't challenge my opinion, you attempted to mock and insight an argue amongst a pretty interesting argument.

Your assuming too much and losing more amongst the text mate

Well, I must be pretty good telepathically then because that's pretty much a genuine 'shyte hitting the fan' moment then. I'm cute enough to know a mood when I feel one in 606 and I detected an 'edge' here in the posting trends. So nope, no apologies for pointing it out.

Meanwhile:

One game down and the bullshitt hits the fan already?

Away we go!

What bullshitt, we are discussing BOD's ability to move better than Fofana, which I think is quite interesting.

I was chatting the other day with a Dublin mate, and he claimed BOD was probably quicker than Cuthbert and Bowe

Well blues he was pretty much exploding from many places in the latter stages of Pro12. He'll be okay...if he's okay...like the lot of them.

Cuthbert and Bowe are wings, aren't they? They're also quicker than Warburton,maybe one of them should be Captain

Those are all pretty legitimate challenges there, blues.

[123456789]

Also a Wallaby would kick a Kiwi's arse in a fight.



And a Lion would eat them both. Shame we haven't toured New Zealand since 1993, right?

Yeah it's a shame, I'm sure if we'd toured between 2004-06 we'd have smashed them with players like Williams, Henson, O'Driscoll, Wilkinson etc.

[Cyril]

Also a Wallaby would kick a Kiwi's arse in a fight.



And a Lion would eat them both. Shame we haven't toured New Zealand since 1993, right?

Yeah it's a shame, I'm sure if we'd toured between 2004-06 we'd have smashed them with players like Williams, Henson, O'Driscoll, Wilkinson etc.

Yeah, it's a shame that tour never happened. Still, they should get the chance in 4 years time. Maybe Sir Clive will be available to run the show? I've got a good feeling about it.

[Guest]

Lydiate is on the field?

Such a limited player. I'll despair if Gatland selects him.

Poor show. Made a mockery of your much vaunted backrow enough times.

[Guest]

I am not saying Danny had a good game, but he didn't have a poor one either. He didn't stand out as good or bad. It would be fair to say he was quiet, but then he probably expected Parisse to be a bit more in the game etc. To say he is limited is a massive over reaction and ignorant.

[Guest]

By the way, I wouldn't start Lydiate, as I would start SOB, but I also do think Gatland will have a backrow of Warbs 6, Tips 7 at the moment.

I can't stand the needless criticism of him though, like he is limited etc.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Lydiate is on the field?

Such a limited player. I'll despair if Gatland selects him.

Poor show. Made a mockery of your much vaunted backrow enough times.

Our back row is pretty crap at the minute, not much to judge by. Mockery is a bit of an overstatement also, he put in a few tackles here and there. Plus he has the fantastic Warburton/Tipuric and Faletau alongside him.

Feckless is right, though. Lydiate is very limited. What does he offer when his team are attacking?

[Taffineastbourne]

Some folk seem to be obsessive with their sniping at Lydiate.Not sure whether this is funny or sad.
Dan looked like a classy 6 in need of game time following a long lay off.No surprise there.
I suggest that the snipers keep their bitter eyes on him in the warm up games as he builds towards the Tests.Gatland obviously thinks that he will be ready in time and I am happy to trust his judgement on this one.
How they are going to make Stevens any good in the remaining time is a puzzle to be honest!

[Notch]

People need to chill out. Its like you're not allowed to criticise a Welsh player.

Lydiate is a decent 6 but I'd be surprised if he made the test side. He's an amazing defender and little else. Croft offers more at the tail and with ball in hand.

[LondonTiger]

Schalk Brits banned for 3 weeks, postdated to the start of next season, for his punch on Farrell.

[maestegmafia]

Lydiate is on the field?

Such a limited player. I'll despair if Gatland selects him.

Poor show. Made a mockery of your much vaunted backrow enough times.

Our back row is pretty crap at the minute, not much to judge by. Mockery is a bit of an overstatement also, he put in a few tackles here and there. Plus he has the fantastic Warburton/Tipuric and Faletau alongside him.

Feckless is right, though. Lydiate is very limited. What does he offer when his team are attacking?

I see your point.

Lydiate is a good ball carrier and fantastic at creating turnovers. I haven't seen him behave linked a second centre to set up wingers, a la Tipuric, but he is a great support player in attack.

I think the advice, of watching him is valid, he is a very effective player.

[irnbrew]

I agree that Lydiate did,nt did,nt have a stand out game but then again he did,nt have a bad game.It was his first game back at international level in a year and in those conditions,i would suggest then it could be interpreted as a good game.He got better as the game went on indicating that he will improve a lot more in the coming weeks. As others have said i wish some on here would stop having a go at Lydiate every time is name is mentioned.It is always the same ones who do this and then tell us all it should be the no 6 of there nation who should play .This is a Lions squad get behind them all not just in support of your own national players

[t1000advancedprototype]

Lydiate is immense and I predicted his inclusion months ago. Some players you just don't leave out. As long as they can become match fit they will raise their game another level againbbecause it's the lions.

[BigTrevsbigmac]

Lydiate looks as though he is still getting himself fit and started badly grew slowly into the game without doing anything special.
At least he lasted the whole game which is an achievement in itself given the conditions.

I really don't think fans should be looking too closely for pointers in this game as it was more like a training run.

[George Carlin]

It's really too early to judge any player yet.

They key thing from the perspective of Lydiate and Gray was that they came through a full 80 minutes, as neither had played test rugby for quite a while. They did, they were fine (Gray was good, in fact) - let's move on to the Force, whom we should tonk by 30 points if we're playing to form and reputation.

[dragonbreath]

One game down and the bullshitt hits the fan already?

Away we go!

What bullshitt, we are discussing BOD's ability to move better than Fofana, which I think is quite interesting.

I was chatting the other day with a Dublin mate, and he claimed BOD was probably quicker than Cuthbert and Bowe

He probably was in 2001

[RDW]

Don' think the Force will be so much of a walkover - reading this morning that they have beaten the Reds this season, and only have 1 player in the Aus squad so will pretty much be there strongest team.

However our Lions team wil be just as good as the one we put out yesterday, and the players will be chomping at the bit, so confident we will win!

[Hound of Harrow]

Given the Lions starved the Baa baas of possession, Lydiate wasn't able to show his main attribute of tackling. Good move by Gatland and Rowntree to give him and Gray the full 80' after their injuries, and they saw it through.

[George Carlin]

The Force have had an odd good game this season but this table (current Aussie Super team standings) does tell you a lot about what we need to know:

Team/P/W/L/D/B/F/A /-/Bns/Pts

1. Brumbies	14	9	3	2	2	376	257	119	6	54
2. Reds	15	9	4	2	1	307	284	23	6	50
3. Waratahs	14	7	7	0	2	371	344	27	4	40
4. Rebels	14	4	10	0	2	327	439	-112	8	32
5. Force	14	3	10	1	2	233	323	-90	5	27

It's the perfect game for us next. If we were playing the Brumbies or the Reds next, we may well struggle but against the Force I don't think that we will, especially as the Force will be without their few Wallabies who are encased in bubble wrap in the national training camp.

[bsando]

Yeah I think you're pretty spot on GC. As the only Force fan on these boards, I think it will be a tougher game than the ba ba's. I've been getting facebook updates all week from Force stating their desire to give the Lions a rough time. Its going to be a tougher match for the Lions but the Force will ultimately lose I feel, due to their backline being quite temperamental. But Lions fullback will be getting a lot more ball and the scrumhalf will have less chances to snipe, so I'd be very surprised if we see any solo try's like we saw Phillips score against ba ba's. Force may be bottom but I'd rate them more than the Rebels at the moment. Had some very close results against top teams. I'd love to see the men in Blue tame the pussycats

[ChequeredJersey]

I hear Godwin's form is excellent for you guys, and he's certainly looked the real deal in the one Force match I've seen. Who do you think are your dangermen?

[nathan]

i'm pretty suprised nobody has jumped on Phillips for taunting the opposition when he went to score his try, what with all the hoo haa about Delon Armitage recently.....

[RDW]

Tell you what, Wednesday morning is going to be thoroughly unproductive at work!

[ChequeredJersey]

I didn't really notice, though it doesn't hugely surprise me

[Rugby Fan]

i'm pretty suprised nobody has jumped on Phillips for taunting the opposition when he went to score his try, what with all the hoo haa about Delon Armitage recently.....

It was a talking point on Twitter. Quite a few were baiting Brian Moore to say something. He wrote this:

I don't like pointing waving clapping etc but so far not specific or as bad as Toulon - that said we could without it.

He said much the same on Talksport.

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