Lions v Reds...

First topic message reminder :

So who will play?

Jenkins
Youngs
Stevens
Parling
???
???
Warburton
???
Youngs
???
???
???
???
???
Kearney

If Gats is to be beleived these players HAVE to start, so who would you play and why?

Finally a contest. Potentially anyway. Its not a full strength Reds team but still some good players. Lots of interesting sub plots. Obviously Cooper is going to be the main talking point.

Wish list:

1. Lions to hammer them.

2. Tuilagi to exploit the 10 channel.

3. Cooper to have a mare.

4. Farrell and Hogg to play well.

Not a lot to ask is it?

Make or break for Cooper... performs well and I could see him come roaring back right into the starting lineup.

Really pleased with the Reds. Its going to be a tough match for the Lions.

I'd like to see this back row unit have a good game - well balanced and they have been great for Wales even getting the better of the SA back row in 2011 before securing a Grand Slam in 2012 - Nice to see them back together. Concerned about lack of grunt in front 5 but it remains to be seen. Exciting looking back division and at least Farrell has attacking options as opposed to having Barritt next to him. This should help his game. Real opportunity for those players to stake a claim here against very good opposition who will be chomping at the bit to get a Lions scalp. Lions has great options on the bench but if we are in trouble I'd like to see changes sooner rather than later.

Ben Youngs seems to be the forgotten man here. I think we're all agreed that its Phillips shirt to lose at the moment but with Murrays average performance against the Force a good showing from Youngs could get him on the bench.

He is a totally different threat to Phillips and offers a better kicking game plus genuine pace, and he has experience orchestrating wins over Oz home and away.

Youngs is already on the bench and is pushing Iron Mike for the Test jersey - Murray is a long way back IMO

Vunipola in for Jenkins. Calf obviously not quite right. Gutted for Melon

Grant called up.

For real? Awesome. Should lift the Scot's spirit. Gethin Jenkins is ruled out of tomorrow's game now, so it makes sense.

Jeez doesnt given Corbisero or Grant much time to get over jet lag if they will be on the bench.

Yeah presume it's a precaution for Jenkins being out the same as Corbs was a precaution for DJ Church.

Just saw it on twitter. Great news.

Gutted for Jenkins, but delighted for Grant. I wonder if Corbs will get the Wednesday game and Grant get the game next Saturday?

Vunipola has been really busy as of late... hope we don't burn him out too.

It really is great news.

Gutted that Sheridan or Marler not called up. Surely Rowntree has their numbers in his phone?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Gutted for Jenkins, but delighted for Grant. I wonder if Corbs will get the Wednesday game and Grant get the game next Saturday?

Vunipola has been really busy as of late... hope we don't burn him out too.

Going to have to now aren't they. Mako will probably get 80 mins tomorrow (unless Stevens moves across) and has impressed thus far. Corbs and Grant deserve a fair crack too.

hugehandoff wrote:Gutted that Sheridan or Marler not called up. Surely Rowntree has their numbers in his phone?

Sheridan, Aye!

Marler, manshamed by the Aussie pack in the Autumn....

Wouldn't that be a story? Ryan Grant going from missing out (twice) to playing in the Test series.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It really is great news.

Yeah it is. Obviously bad for Melon and definitely Healy, but I'm delighted the Scots are a bit happier today. Funny how things turn out isn't it.

Ok - Can we all come out and play together now, until the next national crisis that is

Technically we are still in crisis Ruby, we now have to send Ali Dickinson out to face the Johnsons at Samoa, Castrogiovani of Italy and whatever slab of very rare South African Beef thet the Boks bring out.

I'd expect Stevens to move over and Corbs to be on the bench, but not play... He's unlikely to have recovered from the jetlag by tomorrow morning!

RubyGuby wrote:Ok - Can we all come out and play together now, until the next national crisis that is

Just you wait until Warbs has to go home and the fight starts over RJ/Brown/Robshaw..

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Technically we are still in crisis Ruby, we now have to send Ali Dickinson out to face the Johnsons at Samoa, Castrogiovani of Italy and whatever slab of very rare South African Beef thet the Boks bring out.

That's your problem Radge - WE is The Lions

Ulster

Cole has been named on the bench, so presumably Stevens is notionally the LH cover now (lord help us all, based on his most recent England performances on that side).

Cole and Adam on the bench!

I would have moved Stevens to LH and started Adam rather than give Vunipola another 60+ minutes this week.

I guess they want Adam wrapped in a bit of cotton wool already.

Harsh on Vunipola, but he now has a huge opportunity to go for unlikely to tour to starting Lions in just a few months.

lostinwales wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Ok - Can we all come out and play together now, until the next national crisis that is

Just you wait until Warbs has to go home and the fight starts over RJ/Brown/Robshaw..

Would RJ come into that debate as he doesn't play 7?

lostinwales wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Ok - Can we all come out and play together now, until the next national crisis that is

Just you wait until Warbs has to go home and the fight starts over RJ/Brown/Robshaw..

Don't be silly, the answer is obvious - it's Ryan Jones

ChequeredJersey wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Ok - Can we all come out and play together now, until the next national crisis that is

Just you wait until Warbs has to go home and the fight starts over RJ/Brown/Robshaw..

Would RJ come into that debate as he doesn't play 7?

Tips and SOB cover 7 so the replacement could be a 6 cover.

Brown doesn't play 7 either and there are question marks over whether Robshaw is more suited to 6.

Brown does play 7, he just shouldn't!

Brown played 7 all 6 nations?

Won the top turnovers too apparently.

To be fair to Brown he played the whole 6N at 7 and did a decent job...

Not that we really should be getting into the discussion with no one injured, but Jones and Robshaw have had weeks of inactivity since the season ended - they aren't preparing for any Internationals just now. Brown played in the AP semi final and has spent the last 2 weeks preparing for the Scotland tour - he will be primed and raring to go straight form the off if called up. Jones and Robshaw would take a bit of time to get up to speed - something we don't have at this stage.

However someone was speaking to Jim Hamilton recently and found out that Brown didn't even get a letter saying he will be on the reserve list, so my arguments may be moot anyway!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Technically we are still in crisis Ruby, we now have to send Ali Dickinson out to face the Johnsons at Samoa, Castrogiovani of Italy and whatever slab of very rare South African Beef thet the Boks bring out.

Reid? I'd have the big goon ahead of Ali Dickinson anyday!

dummy_half wrote:Ulster

Cole has been named on the bench, so presumably Stevens is notionally the LH cover now (lord help us all, based on his most recent England performances on that side).

So Mako is praying that Stevens doesn't go off injured then...

Maybe no one had letters telling them they were on standby.

But again to clarify I would completely understand Jones or Robshaw being called up over Brown..

Wales down to fourteen Scotland up to 4 Ireland could lose one with England gaining one i think

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:Wales down to fourteen Scotland up to 4 Ireland could lose one with England gaining one i think

Wales still have 15, Gethin hasn't been send home - the Grant call up is a precaution

Gatlands gamble of taking players that are injured or just recovering from injury does not seem to be paying off.

I seem to remember him saying that if you were not fit for the first game (Baa Baas) then you would not be picked. He then picks about half a dozen players either injured, recovering from injury with no game time, or just back with one or two games under their belt.

Does this ring a bell from previouos Lions tours?

wales606 wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:Wales down to fourteen Scotland up to 4 Ireland could lose one with England gaining one i think

Wales still have 15, Gethin hasn't been send home - the Grant call up is a precaution

[quote] that's good hope hes fit for the next game

wales606 wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:Wales down to fourteen Scotland up to 4 Ireland could lose one with England gaining one i think

Wales still have 15, Gethin hasn't been send home - the Grant call up is a precaution

The Lions Contrail Dance has begun in earnest. With all the confusion of who might be going, going, gone, or staying, or staying with ice on injuries, poor Healy will be dumped somewhere in Peru and told to hitch his way home the rest of the way.

another loosie injury and who next on the plane? Sheridan? After that Paul James? Still comfortably better than anything the Aussies have.

SecretFly wrote:

wales606 wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:Wales down to fourteen Scotland up to 4 Ireland could lose one with England gaining one i think

Wales still have 15, Gethin hasn't been send home - the Grant call up is a precaution

The Lions Contrail Dance has begun in earnest. With all the confusion of who might be going, going, gone, or staying, or staying with ice on injuries, poor Healy will be dumped somewhere in Peru and told to hitch his way home the rest of the way.

With only a jar of marmalade for company.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Gatlands gamble of taking players that are injured or just recovering from injury does not seem to be paying off.

I seem to remember him saying that if you were not fit for the first game (Baa Baas) then you would not be picked. He then picks about half a dozen players either injured, recovering from injury with no game time, or just back with one or two games under their belt.

Does this ring a bell from previouos Lions tours?

Kearney was the only player who was injured before the tour?

I assume the extend of his injury wasn't realised at first.

Jenkins calf injury is a chronic issue that usuall can be dealt with by careful management. Unfortunately, it's tightened up a couple of times now since he joined the squad - apparently he trained all week but felt it give on a run yesterday morning, so is probably just sidelined for a few more days.

Sensible to call up a replacement though if this keeps recurring. While we might get away with only 2 specialist 10s in the squad, I really don't fancy the idea of Vunipola and Corbs splitting duty between starting and subbing through two games a week up to the start of the Test series.

Calling up a replacement means training can go ahead as it normally would, there will be better numbers.

Players returning from injury or recovering do a very different type of training g to those who are fit.

Just out of curiosity do the Lions have an alternative strip? No doubt the Reds will change their jersey but have the Lions ever not worn a red jersey!

Team colours and strip[edit]

For more than half a century, the Lions have been synonymous with the red jersey that sports the amalgamated crests of the four unions. However, prior to 1950 the strip went through a number of significantly different formats.[5]

Unsanctioned tours[edit]

In 1888, the promoter of the first expedition to Australia and New Zealand, Arthur Shrewsbury, demanded "something that would be good material and yet take them by storm out here".[6] The result was a jersey in thick red, white and blue hoops, worn above white shorts and dark socks. The tours to South Africa in 1891 and 1896 retained the red, white and blue theme but this time as red and white hooped jerseys and dark blue shorts and socks.[6] The 1899 trip to Australia saw a reversion to red, white and blue jerseys, but with the blue used in thick hoops and the red and white in thin bands. The shorts remained blue, as did the socks although a white flash was added to the latter. The one-off test in 1999 between England and Australia that was played to commemorate Australia's first test against Reverend Matthew Mullineux's British side saw England wear an updated version of this jersey.[6] In 1903, the South Africa tour followed on from the 1896 tour, with red and white hooped jerseys. The slight differences were that the red hoops were slightly thicker than the white (the opposite was true in 1896), and the white flash on the socks introduced in 1899 was partially retained.[6] The Australia of 1904 saw exactly the same kit as in 1899, and it seemed that the British touring sides had settled on kits particular to the host destination. However, in 1908 with the Scottish and Irish unions refusing to be involved, the Anglo-Welsh side only sported red jerseys with a thick white band on their jerseys on tour to Australia and New Zealand.[5] Blue shorts were retained, but the socks were for the first time red, with a white flash.

Blue jerseys, the Lions named and the crest adopted[edit]

The Scots were once again involved in Dr Tom Smyth's 1910 team to South Africa. Thus, dark blue jerseys, were introduced with white shorts and the red socks of 1908.[6] The jerseys also had a single lion-rampant crest. The 1924 tour returned to South Africa, retaining the blue jerseys but now with shorts to match. It is the 1924 tour that is credited as being the first in which the team were referred to as "the Lions", the irony being that it was on this tour that the single lion-rampant crest was replaced with the forerunner of the four-quartered badge with the symbols of the four represented unions, that is still worn today. Although the lion had been dropped from the jersey, the players had worn the lion motif on their ties as they arrived in South Africa, which led the press and public referring to them as "the Lions".[7]

The unofficial 1927 Argentina tour used the same kit and badge.[5] So powerful was the attribution of "the Lions" nickname that three heraldic versions of the animal returned as the jersey badge in 1930.[5] This was the tour to New Zealand where the tourists now standard blue jerseys caused some controversy. Unlike in association football, the convention in rugby is for the home side to accommodate its guests when there is a clash of kit. The New Zealand side, by then already synonymous with the appellation "All Blacks", had an all black kit that clashed with the Lions' blue. After much reluctance and debate New Zealand agreed to change for the Tests and the All Blacks became the All Whites for the first time. On the 1930 tour a delegation led by the Irish lock George Beamish expressed their displeasure at the fact that whilst the blue of Scotland, white of England and red of Wales were represented in the strip there was no green for Ireland. A green flash was added to the socks, which from 1938 became a green turnover (although on blue socks thus eliminating red from the kit), and that has remained a feature of the strip ever since.[8] In 1936, the four-quartered badge returned for the tour to Argentina and has remained on the kits ever since,[5] but other than that the strip remained the same.

Red jerseys[edit]

The adoption of the red jersey happened in the 1950 tour. A return to New Zealand was accompanied by a desire to avoid the controversy of 1930 and so red replaced blue for the jersey with the resultant kit being that which is still worn today, the combination of red jersey, white shorts and green and blue socks, representing the four unions.[9] The only additions to the strip since 1950 began appearing in 1993, with the addition of kit suppliers logos in prominent positions. Umbro had in 1989 asked for "maximum brand exposure whenever possible" but this did not affect the kit's appearance. Since then, Nike then Adidas have had more overt branding on the shirts, with sponsors Scottish Provident (1997), NTL (2001), Zurich (2005) and HSBC (2009 & 2013[10]).[8]

Uniform evolution[edit]

[5]





























1888, 1891




























1899, 1904


























1908


























1910-1938


























1950-present

Just as another point of interest, Spikey Phillips' knee swelled up a bit after the flight to Brisbane. Not thought to be a problem, but that's why he isn't playing this weekend. Of course Youngs would rightly have the start anyway.

1899 the clubs wouldn't like the 3 month sailing trip for the players to get back and fore

Risca Rev wrote:Just as another point of interest, Spikey Phillips' knee swelled up a bit after the flight to Brisbane. Not thought to be a problem, but that's why he isn't playing this weekend. Of course Youngs would rightly have the start anyway.

Deep vein thrombosis? A friend of mine got this on a flight from Australia. She was very very sick for almost a year. Its no joke.