Your country's starting XV at full stength

First topic message reminder :

So with the usual mix of strange selections at this time of the year due to injury, players being rested and this time around the Lions tour I thought this could serve as a quick relief from the Lions mania with a simple article about who you reckon your country would be fielding (or who you would field) if we had the luxury of full strength squads. As an Englishmen I'd go with the below:

1.Corbs 2.Webber 3.Cole 4.Atwood 5.Launchberry 6.Croft 7.Robshaw 8.Morgan
9.Youngs 10.Farrell 11.May 12.Twelvetrees 13.Tuilagi 14.Wade 15.Brown

As a Tigers fan it pains me to leave out Parling and Youngs in the pack but I want to see some bulk in there again which Webber and Atwood offer more of. In the backs I'd say 15 is the most competitive position with Brown in great form, Foden back to his best, Goode offering a more controlling but less attacking option and Mathew Tait looking brilliant there towards the end of the season.

Also quickly to credit the thought which made me make the thread I'll also name a Ireland XV. Whilst they may be struggling for strength in depth in places and key players have been injured, if you could get the below side fit and firing it doesn't half look dangerous!

1.Healy 2.Best 3.Ross 4.Ryan 5.POC 6.Ferris 7.O'Brien 8.Heaslip
9.Murray 10.Sexton 11.Zebo 12.Marshall 13.O'Driscoll 14.Bowe 15.Kearney

Now I don't know about everyone else but that looks pretty potent to me. I just hope Ferris especially can get back to his best, as on his day he's up there with the very best blindsides in the world.

There is a lot of debate about it but I think Croft will be back in the back row, and I think Wood's versatility will put him on the bench.

If you asked me now I'd be thinking England's best team is probably:

01 Cobisiero
02 Hartley
03 Cole
04 Launchbury
05 Parling
06 Croft
07 Robshaw
08 Morgan
09 Youngs
10 Farrell
11 Wade
12 Twelvetrees
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15 Goode

16 Youngs
17 Marler
18 Wilson
19 Attwood
20 Wood
21 Care
22 Burns
23 Foden

red_stag wrote:I agree with you on that. If you had a creative centre, encouraged more sniping Matt Dawson style runs from Youngs, a back three player with the ability to create something from nothing and a more effective link player in your backrow you'd be flying it.

Wade is needed in your team I think. Twelvetrees time will come too. Those two players will add a lot to your team. I don't know all the backrow options but I think that Wood, Robshaw and Morgan are fine but you lack a backrow with some legs and top link play. Could Tom Croft return to the fold. A great guy to have in the wider channels similar style to Harinordoquy or O'Mahony.

Absolutely, i think Wade, Twelvetrees are the two that will help...but i also think having Morgan or Billy Vunipola at 8 will give the side a huge boost. These guys will give the likes of Chris Ashton the chance to run his lines etc...the team would have a different dimension offensively...but still should encompass the core workmanlike defensive ability...and be tough to beat...

HammerofThunor wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:I'm amazed that many people have dropped Parling from their best England team. Seemingly based on a couple of games against very weak opposition.

For me and others I think it's a case  of searching for balance in the pack. Parling is a real work horse, great at the set piece, good hands, very strong over the ball (he was outstanding there vs NZ) but does lack that bit of bulk I think many of us want to see in the pack.

Atwood offers that bit of extra physicality and carrying so many would like to see him paired with Launchberry who really is growing with every game at the moment. No way that Parling is going to drop out of my 23 for the time being but if Launchberry is fit there is a big part of me that would like to see him partnered with someone like Atwood alongside a bigger front row with the likes of Corbs and Webber in it.

Parling is just as big as Attwood. And he brought real physicality during the 6 nations. I'd have him over Attwood and Launchbury.

NB I think I must be missing something with Launchbury as well. I've seen him get knocked back in tackles and miss them himself. Yes he's been good, especially for his age but I've not seen what everyone else seems to be seeing.

In stats Attwood is only a few kilos heavier but looking at their build and the way they play the game Attwood throws his weight well in contact and imposes himself more. Don't get me wrong as Tigers fan I rate Parling very highly and agree completely with those saying he's a guy we want to keep in the squad through to 2015. He actually reminds me of the sort of lock NZ often play - not the biggest, the strongest or the flashiest but very clever at set piece and gets through a hell of a lot of work in the tight. Similar to NZ locks he also offers himself to carry from slow ball or in horrible parts of the field to run crash balls allowing us to save guys like Morgan for when they'll have the biggest effect.

I just question whether two locks of his and Launchberry's make up is exactly what we need at the moment, I'd like to see a more imposing SR partnership starting the AIs and if it doesn't work for whatever reason bring Parling off the bench and you can be sure as hell he won't let us down from whatever situation.

1 Corbisiero
2 Webber ( more power in the scrum and  solid in line out, I like Youngs as an impact sub).
3 Cole
4 Attwood ( Need more power that Lauchbury doesn't provide yet)
5 Parling
6 Wood (depending on the opposition it could be Croft)
7 Robshaw ( Has never let England down, maybe Kvesic will progress in the next year to make 7 shirt his own)
8 Morgan
9 Youngs
10 Burns
11 Wade
12 Twelvetrees
13 Tuilagi
14 Yarde ( Unless Ashton rediscovers some form)
15 Foden ( offers more than Brown and Goode).

16 Vunipola
17 Youngs
18 Wilson
19 Launchbury
20 Croft
21 Care
22 Farrell
23 May

Stag

a few to change in your England team -

Hartley has probably blotted his copy book one time too many now, and while he is a very solid player, the risk of him giving away penalties and silly cards is just a bit too much. Youngs is coming along nicely anyway.

I'd still go for Wood ahead of Croft, because he works so well in tandem with Robshaw (a good example of the sort of gritty workhorse that is needed by every team)

Please not Goode at full back. He's at most solid, and lacks a bit of gas and a bit of absolute quality at international level. Foden would be the most attacking option (and doesn't diminish the ball playing skills) while Brown is strong, quick enough and has a howitzer of a boot plus an uncanny ability to beat the first tackler.

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As for the discussion on Parling, I haven't seen him do anything wrong - good (rather than fantastic) lineout operator, carries well when given the chance, makes his tackles and gets involved at the breakdown. I think he suffers because England fans perceive him as the new Borthwick or Kennedy - a lineout specialist who is too 'lightweight' (in style more than in size) around the field. I just don't think this is a true reflection of how he lays the game.

dummy_half wrote:Stag

a few to change in your England team -

Hartley has probably blotted his copy book one time too many now, and while he is a very solid player, the risk of him giving away penalties and silly cards is just a bit too much. Youngs is coming along nicely anyway.

I'd still go for Wood ahead of Croft, because he works so well in tandem with Robshaw (a good example of the sort of gritty workhorse that is needed by every team)

Please not Goode at full back. He's at most solid, and lacks a bit of gas and a bit of absolute quality at international level. Foden would be the most attacking option (and doesn't diminish the ball playing skills) while Brown is strong, quick enough and has a howitzer of a boot plus an uncanny ability to beat the first tackler.

---

As for the discussion on Parling, I haven't seen him do anything wrong - good (rather than fantastic) lineout operator, carries well when given the chance, makes his tackles and gets involved at the breakdown. I think he suffers because England fans perceive him as the new Borthwick or Kennedy - a lineout specialist who is too 'lightweight' (in style more than in size) around the field. I just don't think this is a true reflection of how he lays the game.

Yes I suspected as much for Hartley especially with Lancasters attitude to discipline. I don't rate Youngs that highly if truth be told but I have not seen much of him. That Buchanen bloke looks a propsect.

I'm a big Croft fan. I think he adds mobility, experience and a good lineout presence to any team he is a part of. Important in any backrow.

Goode IMO is under rated due to not being flashy. I was extremely impressed with him in last year's Ireland v England game in Dublin.

I'd be the first to admit however that as much as I enjoy watching the Premiership and England games others will know more than me on who is on/off form or the exact details of what they bring.

Goode had a strong start to his England Career then looked frankly poor at the end of the 6N. I see his strength but don't think that you can realistically have him in the team unless you basically build the team around him, and he's not good enough to merit that. Could can say that if Barritt (also a man of many strengths) plays 12 then you need him, but that's not entirely true (though if you play Barritt and Farrell then he is probably the best pick at FB) and it means the back line really lacks pace as he is our slowest back 3 option, though at AP level he has a lovely step

Alex Goode suffered an injury around Christmas time, and never really looked right after that.