Australia vs British and Irish Lions - 22nd June : TEST 1 BUILDUP

First topic message reminder :

So, it's only a week to go before the first Lions test for 4 years.

Gatland has a host of injuries and a game against the Brumbies to manoeuvre while deciding the 23 players who will take to the pitch next Saturday.

Christian Wade and Brad Barritt have both been called up to cover for injury concerns over Jamie Roberts, Manu Tuilagi, Tommy Bowe and George North


My team for Saturday

1. Maku Vunipola
2. Tom Youngs
3. Adam Jones
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Tom Croft
7. Sam Warburton
8. Toby Faletau
9. Mike Phillips
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. George North (Simon Zebo)
12. Jonathan Davies
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Richard Hibbard
17. Alex Corbisiero
18. Dan Cole
19. Richie Gray
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Ben Youngs
22. Owen Farrell
23. Manu Tuilagi/Stuart Hogg


Thoughts?

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Interesting that POC and AWJ were used considerably less than Heaslip and Croft in the lineout.

4 takes for the locks
8 takes for the backrow (warbs didn't take any)

Youngs and Croft will be used to playing together for England and Tigers. Makes sense that Youngs would throw to him a lot, at least

POC is calling the lineout. Heaslip had the same number of takes as Croft.

True, just saying it would make sense that they'd use Croft a lot as an option. If I were POC, who is very canny, I'd call it to Croft a lot. It's an excellent lineout-pack. Just wished we'd pressurised their lineout a tad more

The lineout has been terrible when POC is not playing, which would suggest that its not an excellent lineout-pack and the only reason its good now is because he knows what he is doing.

OK. Only the Irish players are any good, and the Munster players are the best of all.

I'm tired of this

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Interesting that POC and AWJ were used considerably less than Heaslip and Croft in the lineout.

4 takes for the locks
8 takes for the backrow (warbs didn't take any)

Youngs and Croft will be used to playing together for England and Tigers. Makes sense that Youngs would throw to him a lot, at least

POC is calling the lineout. Heaslip had the same number of takes as Croft.

True, just saying it would make sense that they'd use Croft a lot as an option. If I were POC, who is very canny, I'd call it to Croft a lot. It's an excellent lineout-pack. Just wished we'd pressurised their lineout a tad more

The lineout has been terrible when POC is not playing, which would suggest that its not an excellent lineout-pack and the only reason its good now is because he knows what he is doing.

Lol, that's rubbish!

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Interesting that POC and AWJ were used considerably less than Heaslip and Croft in the lineout.

4 takes for the locks
8 takes for the backrow (warbs didn't take any)

Youngs and Croft will be used to playing together for England and Tigers. Makes sense that Youngs would throw to him a lot, at least

POC is calling the lineout. Heaslip had the same number of takes as Croft.

True, just saying it would make sense that they'd use Croft a lot as an option. If I were POC, who is very canny, I'd call it to Croft a lot. It's an excellent lineout-pack. Just wished we'd pressurised their lineout a tad more

The lineout has been terrible when POC is not playing, which would suggest that its not an excellent lineout-pack and the only reason its good now is because he knows what he is doing.

OK. Only the Irish players are any good, and the Munster players are the best of all.

I'm tired of this

POC is the common denominator of when the lineout has been anyway decent on this tour - nothing to do with Croft - Heaslip is just as good as Croft when it comes to lineout takes and we're not banging on about his prowess in the lineout.

nathan wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Interesting that POC and AWJ were used considerably less than Heaslip and Croft in the lineout.

4 takes for the locks
8 takes for the backrow (warbs didn't take any)

Youngs and Croft will be used to playing together for England and Tigers. Makes sense that Youngs would throw to him a lot, at least

POC is calling the lineout. Heaslip had the same number of takes as Croft.

True, just saying it would make sense that they'd use Croft a lot as an option. If I were POC, who is very canny, I'd call it to Croft a lot. It's an excellent lineout-pack. Just wished we'd pressurised their lineout a tad more

The lineout has been terrible when POC is not playing, which would suggest that its not an excellent lineout-pack and the only reason its good now is because he knows what he is doing.

Lol, that's rubbish!

So who is making the difference then in the lineout?

As the only hooker with a 100% hit rate I thought that maybe Tom Youngs was the common denominator? And i am certainly not claiming he shoudl be taking any credit.

Wasn't POc playing when we struggled against the Barbarians in the first half lineouts?

Personally I felt the starting pack all deserved a lot of credit for how they played.

Sin é wrote:

nathan wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Interesting that POC and AWJ were used considerably less than Heaslip and Croft in the lineout.

4 takes for the locks
8 takes for the backrow (warbs didn't take any)

Youngs and Croft will be used to playing together for England and Tigers. Makes sense that Youngs would throw to him a lot, at least

POC is calling the lineout. Heaslip had the same number of takes as Croft.

True, just saying it would make sense that they'd use Croft a lot as an option. If I were POC, who is very canny, I'd call it to Croft a lot. It's an excellent lineout-pack. Just wished we'd pressurised their lineout a tad more

The lineout has been terrible when POC is not playing, which would suggest that its not an excellent lineout-pack and the only reason its good now is because he knows what he is doing.

Lol, that's rubbish!

So who is making the difference then in the lineout?

It's not just one person that makes the difference in a line out. To suggest otherwise is just stupid. For a start best and Hibbards throwing has been dodgy yet your saying that was because poc wasn't there!

Since when has any aspect of the set piece relied on just one player? Forward play is team play, at every level and always has been

I would have thought Youngs was the most important factor in the lineout today? He managed to hit his man despite some dreadful jump timing. He had an excellent match. POCs calling is important but the whole unit is important, the jumpers and lifters getting their timing right and the thrower not having Hibbard or Best style yips. The lineout in other matches wasn't too hot and POC was there.

I think it was lineout tactics that worked best today, Gatland obviously went for safety at the front and 5 man lineouts more than in previous tests (when they frequently went tail) it did make it hard to get over the gainline though

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:I would have thought Youngs was the most important factor in the lineout today? He managed to hit his man despite some dreadful jump timing. He had an excellent match. POCs calling is important but the whole unit is important, the jumpers and lifters getting their timing right and the thrower not having Hibbard or Best style yips. The lineout in other matches wasn't too hot and POC was there.

Yep, really been impressed with Youngs

The Lions have 4 jumpers, while Aus have 2 (or it might be 3 I can't remember) which gives the Lions a big advantage on their own throw

I was slightly disappointed we didn't steal any of the Aus lineouts considering the players we had - I think Parling is the best at that though, and he didn't get many chances from the bench.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think it was lineout tactics that worked best today, Gatland obviously went for safety at the front and 5 man lineouts more than in previous tests (when they frequently went tail) it did make it hard to get over the gainline though

It did make it more difficult, I hope they do try going to the back next week - that is a huge part of Gatland's gameplan, and with Croft in the team I think POC called it too safe for some of the later lineouts after it was clear that Youngs was throwing well.

The Lions have 5 jumpers, I'm pretty sure Warbs is a decent option?

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Interesting that POC and AWJ were used considerably less than Heaslip and Croft in the lineout.

4 takes for the locks
8 takes for the backrow (warbs didn't take any)

Youngs and Croft will be used to playing together for England and Tigers. Makes sense that Youngs would throw to him a lot, at least

POC is calling the lineout. Heaslip had the same number of takes as Croft.

True, just saying it would make sense that they'd use Croft a lot as an option. If I were POC, who is very canny, I'd call it to Croft a lot. It's an excellent lineout-pack. Just wished we'd pressurised their lineout a tad more

The lineout has been terrible when POC is not playing, which would suggest that its not an excellent lineout-pack and the only reason its good now is because he knows what he is doing.

OK. Only the Irish players are any good, and the Munster players are the best of all.

I'm tired of this

POC is the common denominator of when the lineout has been anyway decent on this tour - nothing to do with Croft - Heaslip is just as good as Croft when it comes to lineout takes and we're not banging on about his prowess in the lineout.

That's because croft can operate with only one lifter and still get the height which gives a range if other combinations at the line out

So Gatland, I assume, will start with Youngs at 2 and Croft at 6 next week? And possibly change one of the 2nd rows. Gray deserves a shot, the other 3 have had their chance. SOB, Toby and Tips each deserve a game against Australia too.

I'd keep the pack the same Sain. Possibly SOB for Croft but that's it.

Youngs for Philips is critical I think. This game proved that Philips is not the right fit to take on Australia in my eyes, something I'd been thinking for a while.

Yeah possibly, what changes to the bench should be made?
I agree on Phillips and as I said before Youngs was better suited to start. Though until today Phillips has been fairly spectacular. Aus have sussed him out after all the footage they would have had, a lot of other teams might start to click on with this now.

Completely agree Saint. I didn't mind his selection because he was playing so well.

However he slows the ball down so much, runs when he shouldn't. Also his slower (still quick enough) pass means Sexton sat quite deep.

I'd keep the team the same except for that change.

I'd bring SOB and Bowe on to the bench think that would be it though.

ChequeredJersey wrote:The Lions have 5 jumpers, I'm pretty sure Warbs is a decent option?

Warbs can be used, but I think they are playing with 4, using Warbs as a lifter.

Let's also see if we get Roberts or Manu back and how players in the backs do on Tuesday when they've actual had a week together this time

I have no issue with Cuthbert and I don't remember an occasion where he has slipped up against a top 3 team, but I see him as a potential weakness. I'd start with Bowe and perhaps bring Hogg on to the bench. Tempted to leave out Parling, put AWJ on bench and start with Gray. Swap SOB for Lydiate and Grant for Mako.

* If Roberts and Tuilagi are available then that changes everything. I also thought the centre partnership was very good today, they're two classy players.

I think there's possibly three changes to the starting team in the offing. Youngs in at 9, one of Roberts or Manu in at 12 and Bowe onto the wing should he come through Tuesday.

That all might be a touch harsh on Davies and Cuthbert but that might give more to the backline as a unit.

I have to say I like the back 5 combo possibly with the exception of Cuthbert. Another bosh merchant at 12 may unbalance us I think and Davies did well with gainline successes.

The tuesday team will be interesting I think

nathan wrote:

Sin é wrote:

nathan wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Interesting that POC and AWJ were used considerably less than Heaslip and Croft in the lineout.

4 takes for the locks
8 takes for the backrow (warbs didn't take any)

Youngs and Croft will be used to playing together for England and Tigers. Makes sense that Youngs would throw to him a lot, at least

POC is calling the lineout. Heaslip had the same number of takes as Croft.

True, just saying it would make sense that they'd use Croft a lot as an option. If I were POC, who is very canny, I'd call it to Croft a lot. It's an excellent lineout-pack. Just wished we'd pressurised their lineout a tad more

The lineout has been terrible when POC is not playing, which would suggest that its not an excellent lineout-pack and the only reason its good now is because he knows what he is doing.

Lol, that's rubbish!

So who is making the difference then in the lineout?

It's not just one person that makes the difference in a line out. To suggest otherwise is just stupid. For a start best and Hibbards throwing has been dodgy yet your saying that was because poc wasn't there!

The person making the calls is the most important person in the lineout. POC would more than likely have settled Best first of all with easy throws to the front of the lineout. The fact that POC is in the lineout also makes a huge difference as he is generally man-marked anyway, giving others a bit of space.

The Saint wrote:I have no issue with Cuthbert and I don't remember an occasion where he has slipped up against a top 3 team, but I see him as a potential weakness. I'd start with Bowe and perhaps bring Hogg on to the bench. Tempted to leave out Parling, put AWJ on bench and start with Gray. Swap SOB for Lydiate and Grant for Mako.

* If Roberts and Tuilagi are available then that changes everything. I also thought the centre partnership was very good today, they're two classy players.

I can't see any changes except Bowe on the bench for Maitland. I can't see Roberts getting fit for the next game the centres were rock solid in defence but need to be flatter in attack maybe Sexton being too far back. People talking about Youngs at 9, did they see the last game, Hogg was getting the ball looped, over his head, behind him and on his toes, he was terrible, also he was slower than Phillips getting the ball out and that was not a test match. For all Phillips faults he tied up their back row it was a shame the Lions did not take advantage.

I hope Gatland has learnt to keep our front row on as long as possible with them playing so well together also AWJ should not have been taken off he had another good game.

OK i missed the ENTIRE second half (grr) can some one give me a quick review, who did well for the Lions. I thought Corbs and North had cracking first halves.

Youngs shone off the bench Glam and shone on his start before the Brumbies game. Against the Brumbies he had a beaten pack and a 10 who was not comfortable in the position. He still showed more creation than Phillips showed today. Big Mike offered so very little to tie in the Wallaby defence. Passing slow from the base, kicking woefully and with as many turnover penalties conceded as breaks made is not a good display from an international 9.

Hood83 wrote:OK i missed the ENTIRE second half (grr) can some one give me a quick review, who did well for the Lions. I thought Corbs and North had cracking first halves.

Youngs and Sexton too I think

Hood83 wrote:OK i missed the ENTIRE second half (grr) can some one give me a quick review, who did well for the Lions. I thought Corbs and North had cracking first halves.

The midfield ran a good move off a lineout to put Cuthbert in, he did well to finish threw 4 attempted tackles

Last 20 was an undisciplined mess - Aus had two kicks to take the lead

Bench was very uneffective - the replacement frontrows gave away a penalty on their put in that could have won Aus the game

I think his style would be much better. Get Sexton flatter and not allow the Aussies so much time to get their defense set.

Thanks all, any other points from the second half. I thought Phillips box-kicking and general slowness in the first half was predictable and a massive problem. BUT - I honestly am not convinced by B Youngs. Care is England;s best SH and Young crabbing and speed to the breakdown has been equally poor of late. 

Would agree that T Youngs looked top notch in the first half. Did he carry on? Looks like the Aussies were very unlucky to lose with injuries and kicks going wide. Would that be fair?

Pete re the centres I think we lacked penetration in attack and they did not combine at all during the game. Neither look comfortable at 12 and I think we need to readjust the midfield to bring better balance. We are looking to play direct and at the minute have neither of the centres we used today really examplify that style in the 12 role.

If you look back to the Manu/BOD partnership earlier in the tour, that worked and we know Roberts combines well with both.

glamorganalun wrote:

The Saint wrote:I have no issue with Cuthbert and I don't remember an occasion where he has slipped up against a top 3 team, but I see him as a potential weakness. I'd start with Bowe and perhaps bring Hogg on to the bench. Tempted to leave out Parling, put AWJ on bench and start with Gray. Swap SOB for Lydiate and Grant for Mako.

* If Roberts and Tuilagi are available then that changes everything. I also thought the centre partnership was very good today, they're two classy players.

I can't see any changes except Bowe on the bench for Maitland. I can't see Roberts getting fit for the next game the centres were rock solid in defence but need to be flatter in attack maybe Sexton being too far back. People talking about Youngs at 9, did they see the last game, Hogg was getting the ball looped, over his head, behind him and on his toes, he was terrible, also he was slower than Phillips getting the ball out and that was not a test match. For all Phillips faults he tied up their back row it was a shame the Lions did not take advantage.

I hope Gatland has learnt to keep our front row on as long as possible with them playing so well together also AWJ should not have been taken off he had another good game.

If getting caught in possession repeatedly by the wallaby 6 is tying up their bsck row then yes he was

formerly known as Sam wrote:Pete re the centres I think we lacked penetration in attack and they did not combine at all during the game. Neither look comfortable at 12 and I think we need to readjust the midfield to bring better balance. We are looking to play direct and at the minute have neither of the centres we used today really examplify that style in the 12 role.

If you look back to the Manu/BOD partnership earlier in the tour, that worked and we know Roberts combines well with both.

If they play, I think JD2 and BOD will look better next week - they are not used to each other, but another week in training will help.

The Aus XV has been practising together for 4 weeks, this Lions team has only had a couple at best.

I thought the centres were pretty good and think JD2 is having a great tour!

Hood83 wrote:Thanks all, any other points from the second half. I thought Phillips box-kicking and general slowness in the first half was predictable and a massive problem. BUT - I honestly am not convinced by B Youngs. Care is England;s best SH and Young crabbing and speed to the breakdown has been equally poor of late. 

Would agree that T Youngs looked top notch in the first half. Did he carry on? Looks like the Aussies were very unlucky to lose with injuries and kicks going wide. Would that be fair?

This I've never got, care crabs just as much as young, Phillips does too. There just trying to pull defenders apart to create a hole. At the tigers youngs has out through many players for a score by doing that.

valtrepkos wrote:I thought the centres were pretty good and think JD2 is having a great tour!

Individually they had pretty good games, but they didn't quite click together

JD2 is having a very good tour.

Sin é wrote:

nathan wrote:

Sin é wrote:

nathan wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Interesting that POC and AWJ were used considerably less than Heaslip and Croft in the lineout.

4 takes for the locks
8 takes for the backrow (warbs didn't take any)

Youngs and Croft will be used to playing together for England and Tigers. Makes sense that Youngs would throw to him a lot, at least

POC is calling the lineout. Heaslip had the same number of takes as Croft.

True, just saying it would make sense that they'd use Croft a lot as an option. If I were POC, who is very canny, I'd call it to Croft a lot. It's an excellent lineout-pack. Just wished we'd pressurised their lineout a tad more

The lineout has been terrible when POC is not playing, which would suggest that its not an excellent lineout-pack and the only reason its good now is because he knows what he is doing.

Lol, that's rubbish!

So who is making the difference then in the lineout?

It's not just one person that makes the difference in a line out. To suggest otherwise is just stupid. For a start best and Hibbards throwing has been dodgy yet your saying that was because poc wasn't there!

The person making the calls is the most important person in the lineout. POC would more than likely have settled Best first of all with easy throws to the front of the lineout. The fact that POC is in the lineout also makes a huge difference as he is generally man-marked anyway, giving others a bit of space.

I'm sorry, I still disagree, the line out has been just as good when croft or either parling has been in it. In fact I think we've only stolen line outs when parling was playing.

Hood83 wrote:Thanks all, any other points from the second half. I thought Phillips box-kicking and general slowness in the first half was predictable and a massive problem. BUT - I honestly am not convinced by B Youngs. Care is England;s best SH and Young crabbing and speed to the breakdown has been equally poor of late. 

Would agree that T Youngs looked top notch in the first half. Did he carry on? Looks like the Aussies were very unlucky to lose with injuries and kicks going wide. Would that be fair?

Care can pass very quickly or he can crab, he varies game to game. I think Youngs will do fine. The difficulty is that whoever face Genia, will be facing Genia

nathan wrote:

Hood83 wrote:Thanks all, any other points from the second half. I thought Phillips box-kicking and general slowness in the first half was predictable and a massive problem. BUT - I honestly am not convinced by B Youngs. Care is England;s best SH and Young crabbing and speed to the breakdown has been equally poor of late. 

Would agree that T Youngs looked top notch in the first half. Did he carry on? Looks like the Aussies were very unlucky to lose with injuries and kicks going wide. Would that be fair?

This I've never got, care crabs just as much as young, Phillips does too. There just trying to pull defenders apart to create a hole. At the tigers youngs has out through many players for a score by doing that.

I think Care sticks far closer to the ruck, he also makes just as many breaks as Youngs but closer in and I think he's been quicker to the breakdown with a marginally quicker pass. Recently he's had a much more accurate pass than Youngs whose radar seems off to me. Just as I see it. I've actually been really unimpressed with how B Youngs has progressed. I think Care has improved while he's gone backwards.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Hood83 wrote:Thanks all, any other points from the second half. I thought Phillips box-kicking and general slowness in the first half was predictable and a massive problem. BUT - I honestly am not convinced by B Youngs. Care is England;s best SH and Young crabbing and speed to the breakdown has been equally poor of late. 

Would agree that T Youngs looked top notch in the first half. Did he carry on? Looks like the Aussies were very unlucky to lose with injuries and kicks going wide. Would that be fair?

Care can pass very quickly or he can crab, he varies game to game. I think Youngs will do fine. The difficulty is that whoever face Genia, will be facing Genia

out of the three (Phillips, youngs and care) youngs is the only one to outplay genia, youngs certainly has the skill to do it again but he needs the forwards to do there job.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Hood83 wrote:Thanks all, any other points from the second half. I thought Phillips box-kicking and general slowness in the first half was predictable and a massive problem. BUT - I honestly am not convinced by B Youngs. Care is England;s best SH and Young crabbing and speed to the breakdown has been equally poor of late. 

Would agree that T Youngs looked top notch in the first half. Did he carry on? Looks like the Aussies were very unlucky to lose with injuries and kicks going wide. Would that be fair?

Care can pass very quickly or he can crab, he varies game to game. I think Youngs will do fine. The difficulty is that whoever face Genia, will be facing Genia

Yeah he's a class apart. Actually i think he played against B Youngs when England beat them out there and Youngs scored a try. My problem with Youngs is, he's not got any better, Genia has...a lot.

Just watched North's try again. I was in danger of thinking him a bosher before. Not quite. Great stuff.

Hood83 wrote:

nathan wrote:

Hood83 wrote:Thanks all, any other points from the second half. I thought Phillips box-kicking and general slowness in the first half was predictable and a massive problem. BUT - I honestly am not convinced by B Youngs. Care is England;s best SH and Young crabbing and speed to the breakdown has been equally poor of late. 

Would agree that T Youngs looked top notch in the first half. Did he carry on? Looks like the Aussies were very unlucky to lose with injuries and kicks going wide. Would that be fair?

This I've never got, care crabs just as much as young, Phillips does too. There just trying to pull defenders apart to create a hole. At the tigers youngs has out through many players for a score by doing that.

I think Care sticks far closer to the ruck, he also makes just as many breaks as Youngs but closer in and I think he's been quicker to the breakdown with a marginally quicker pass. Recently he's had a much more accurate pass than Youngs whose radar seems off to me. Just as I see it. I've actually been really unimpressed with how B Youngs has progressed. I think Care has improved while he's gone backwards.

At AP level I agree, Care has been peerless this past 15 months or so. For England he has struggled though I will argue that he hasn't had as much chance to play with a decent platform and the gameplan doesn't play to his strengths. But he was very poor against Aus last year

Aren't we over-egging our concerns at the breakdown a little? I didn't think it was too bad when I watched the game and the stats bear this out, really. We won 6 turnovers to their 2, had fewer missed tackles and won more rucks (82 to 75). Gill did not assert dominance when he came on and we have to be thankful for that.

If we were going to change that backrow combination, then I think that we need to look at what we might lose as well as what we might gain. Drop Croft if you want but every throw to him at the front of the lineout was absolutely guaranteed ball and we shouldn't thumb our nose at that out of some vague notion that we need more go-forward. My thoughts about the bench are the same now as they were at the start of the match. If we were leading the game, then fine but if we were chasing the game (as we were in the last 20 minutes) then to have Lydiate instead of a carry merchant like SOB or a breakdown jackal like Tips would be like trying to fix a loose nut with a screwdriver instead of a spanner.

A word about Alex Corbisiero, who was absolutely excellent - topping the carries and metres made stats amongst the forwards and he was strong in defence too. Also, Tom Youngs absolutely did what he needed to and should start next week - the scrum lost nothing because of his slightly smaller frame. Conversely, what should worry the hell out of Gatland is that heavier front row of Vuni, Hibbard and Cole struggled very badly against the Wallabies second string - Cole in particular could do nothing with Sekope Kepu and that's not a match up I want to see again.

I'll be quick about this or I will be accused of further spinning the broken record, but a lot of posters said a long time ago that Genia would take advantage of Philips and so it proved. We also need to be honest about this 'third flanker' stuff - Mowen and Hooper had been specifically told to marshall Philips and I didn't spot him crossing the gainline once - they had him well in hand. Conversely, one of the reasons that BOD and Davies (who were defensively excellent, incidentally) didn't appear much is because of the slow ball that Sexton constantly received. The one time that consciously quick ball popped up, Cuthbert scored. I realise that Philips has a number of fans here, but I think that we need to look at hard at whether he should be replaced. I think it would help our whole backline if he was.

Finally, people removing Maitland to replace him with Roberts or Bowe who can only play in one position is one of the most mental things I've seen for a long time on these boards. Didn't you watch what happened to Australia today? Unless you can cover full back and wing at least (very different positions and skills required, particularly positioning and defensive alignment) then you can be completely fecked when injuries hit your backline. I've assumed one of the points of Farrell coming is that he can also cover centre. Replace Maitland if you must (I presume it was all the mistakes he made today?), but the replacement has to be a utility back like 36 or Hogg.

George Carlin wrote:

Finally, people removing Maitland to replace him with Roberts or Bowe.

Bowe can play 11, 13, 14 and 15

1 more position than Maitland

If Roberts is fit he covers wing and FB as well as 12 and 13 he also tackles unlike some.

He hasn't played FB or Wing in ages, though, right?

glamorganalun wrote:If Roberts is fit he covers wing and FB as well as 12 and 13 he also tackles unlike some.

But he won't be considered for wing or full back.

wales606 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Finally, people removing Maitland to replace him with Roberts or Bowe.

Bowe can play 11, 13, 14 and 15

1 more position than Maitland

Right. When was the last time he played full back or centre, exactly? Or are you basing Tommy's centre prowess on one match in 2009 when BOD and Roberts being out forced him to play there as emergency cover. Bowe is a centre in the same way that Nick Phipps was a winger today.

glamorganalun wrote:If Roberts is fit he covers wing and FB as well as 12 and 13 he also tackles unlike some.

Pathetic.