World's top Referee to handle World's top club clash

First topic message reminder :

We often criticise a referee when he gets it totally wrong but rarely sing their praises when they get it spectacularly right.

I'd like to correct that a little by congratulating Craig Joubert on his appointment to the super rugby final.

The world's #1 whistler has earned the respect of players, fans and his bosses alike with his consistent, clear and sensible interpretations throughout his career and is a role model others should aspire to.

In recent times he has handled the rugby World Cup final, where he did a splendid job although sparked the ire of some northern fans and journalists by bucking the trend of not penalising France in World Cup competitions featuring New Zealand.

Joubert was again center stage in Australia for the Lions tour where he controlled the only test to be referred adequately and without major controversy.

Congratulations to Craig. A man at the top of his game and on top of the world.

looks like you need to have some centralised contract (similar to ireland) and an identified list of international players each year (similar to the EPS in England).
as for funding this, IRB could enforce a compensation scheme whereby any foreign clubs pay a fee to the academy whenever a player "bred" in this academy is transfered.
ultimately SA could do with another top franchise since you seem to have both quality and quantity. you just cannot prevent someone to earn his living playing rugby abroad if he cant in his own country.

Effervescing Elephant wrote:

Biltong wrote:I don't know Guns.

I think central contracting is the first step.

Have salary scales for players.

We need to find a way to protect the top 4 players in each position firstly, pay them R 3  000 000 a year if you have to. Even more if that is not enough.

Then we need to identify the future youngsters and put them on a proper salary scale to ensure they know they are in future plans.

We need more teams in Super Rugby to provide more players an opportunity, but OZ and NZ are fighting it.

We need to take our rightful revenue from Super Rugby and Rugby Championship and not split it three ways in equal amounts.

We need to have an A team that exposes players on a rotation basis to see who are the next best.

The reality is guys aren't going to stay around for long, so we need experienced players as back up.

Right now the cupboard on experienced alternatives are bare.

Maybe grab the bull by the horns and actively seek to loan players to NH clubs on a contractual basis. Send them north for a year, they get the NH pay and experience the European scene but are contracted to the SARU that they return after 12 months. This stops any residency issues and encourages northern clubs to cultivate their own talents.

that might not be a bad idea at all.

Biltong wrote:

Effervescing Elephant wrote:

Biltong wrote:I don't know Guns.

I think central contracting is the first step.

Have salary scales for players.

We need to find a way to protect the top 4 players in each position firstly, pay them R 3  000 000 a year if you have to. Even more if that is not enough.

Then we need to identify the future youngsters and put them on a proper salary scale to ensure they know they are in future plans.

We need more teams in Super Rugby to provide more players an opportunity, but OZ and NZ are fighting it.

We need to take our rightful revenue from Super Rugby and Rugby Championship and not split it three ways in equal amounts.

We need to have an A team that exposes players on a rotation basis to see who are the next best.

The reality is guys aren't going to stay around for long, so we need experienced players as back up.

Right now the cupboard on experienced alternatives are bare.

Maybe grab the bull by the horns and actively seek to loan players to NH clubs on a contractual basis. Send them north for a year, they get the NH pay and experience the European scene but are contracted to the SARU that they return after 12 months. This stops any residency issues and encourages northern clubs to cultivate their own talents.

that might not be a bad idea at all.

Right, that's that sorted. I'm off to the Middle East!

 

I said might

Effervescing Elephant wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Effervescing Elephant wrote:

Biltong wrote:I don't know Guns.

I think central contracting is the first step.

Have salary scales for players.

We need to find a way to protect the top 4 players in each position firstly, pay them R 3  000 000 a year if you have to. Even more if that is not enough.

Then we need to identify the future youngsters and put them on a proper salary scale to ensure they know they are in future plans.

We need more teams in Super Rugby to provide more players an opportunity, but OZ and NZ are fighting it.

We need to take our rightful revenue from Super Rugby and Rugby Championship and not split it three ways in equal amounts.

We need to have an A team that exposes players on a rotation basis to see who are the next best.

The reality is guys aren't going to stay around for long, so we need experienced players as back up.

Right now the cupboard on experienced alternatives are bare.

Maybe grab the bull by the horns and actively seek to loan players to NH clubs on a contractual basis. Send them north for a year, they get the NH pay and experience the European scene but are contracted to the SARU that they return after 12 months. This stops any residency issues and encourages northern clubs to cultivate their own talents.

that might not be a bad idea at all.

Right, that's that sorted. I'm off to the Middle East!

Middle East is a doddle mate. Just cover the whole area with a mahoosive tent and air condition it! That'd calm them all down, my kids are grouchy when it's too hot too!

Who will make those tent poles?

tigerleghorn wrote:

Effervescing Elephant wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Effervescing Elephant wrote:

Biltong wrote:I don't know Guns.

I think central contracting is the first step.

Have salary scales for players.

We need to find a way to protect the top 4 players in each position firstly, pay them R 3  000 000 a year if you have to. Even more if that is not enough.

Then we need to identify the future youngsters and put them on a proper salary scale to ensure they know they are in future plans.

We need more teams in Super Rugby to provide more players an opportunity, but OZ and NZ are fighting it.

We need to take our rightful revenue from Super Rugby and Rugby Championship and not split it three ways in equal amounts.

We need to have an A team that exposes players on a rotation basis to see who are the next best.

The reality is guys aren't going to stay around for long, so we need experienced players as back up.

Right now the cupboard on experienced alternatives are bare.

Maybe grab the bull by the horns and actively seek to loan players to NH clubs on a contractual basis. Send them north for a year, they get the NH pay and experience the European scene but are contracted to the SARU that they return after 12 months. This stops any residency issues and encourages northern clubs to cultivate their own talents.

that might not be a bad idea at all.

Right, that's that sorted. I'm off to the Middle East!

Middle East is a doddle mate. Just cover the whole area with a mahoosive tent and air condition it! That'd calm them all down, my kids are grouchy when it's too hot too!

That's genius. We are getting stuff DONE today. 606v2 ftw.

Have you seen the plans they have for creating robotic clouds for the Qatar football world cup?

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/27/robotic-clouds-will-provide-shade-during-qatar-world-cup/

Biltong wrote:Who will make those tent poles?

Well Bilts, as you're asking, the present Mrs Leghorn might recommend me due to my very occasional impressive"tent making" on a Sunday morning  

 

tigerleghorn wrote:

Biltong wrote:Who will make those tent poles?

Well Bilts, as you're asking, the present Mrs Leghorn might  recommend me due to my very occasional  impressive"tent making" on a Sunday morning  

OK, so between the two of us we can prop up two corners, we need more.

Biltong wrote:

tigerleghorn wrote:

Biltong wrote:Who will make those tent poles?

Well Bilts, as you're asking, the present Mrs Leghorn might  recommend me due to my very occasional  impressive"tent making" on a Sunday morning  

OK, so between the two of us we can prop up two corners, we need more.

  

I'd volunteer but it would suck if one corner of the tent was much higher than the other two.

GloriousEmpire wrote:I'd volunteer but it would suck if one corner of the tent was much higher than the other two.

 That's more like it GE!

GloriousEmpire wrote:I'd volunteer but it would suck if one corner of the tent was much higher than the other two.

especially if you are standing on Mount Damavant.  

Biltong wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:I'd volunteer but it would suck if one corner of the tent was much higher than the other two.

especially if you are standing on Mount Damavant.  

I've seen him!, he's a porn star right?....I'll get my coat.

Joubert earned his place in that RWC final and then bottled it. He's been awful ever since. NH teams really struggle with his 'interpretations.' He did well in the second Lions test, I agree with that, so let's hope he's hitting 'form' again.

I agree, after a very fine World Cup final he had a rank game overseeing NZ v Australia. However I see that as just a blip.

Joubert is damn near perfect. He looks like a bit of a geek but he's a brilliant ref. He had a cracking RWC final, perfect display of control and restraint. Wish he could ref every single game my teams are playing in.

I guess your view of refs comes from how often you have them reffing certain teams and how used you are to their interpretations. One of the things all need to improve on is actually playing to the laws of the game rather than how you like to see the game played.

Another thing that I think a lot of really good refs struggle at is at the scrum. Alot have a great grasp of everything else but are mystified and guess at this point in the game. Bring in dedicated refs at this time!

Thanks for that Brian Moore.

Why not simply have the off side touch judge (Assistant referee) come on the pitch and stand on the opposite side of the scrum with full authority to call penalties. Would reduce the shennagins on the other side.

Better yet, revert to cotton jerseys with a bit of looseness so props can actually bind properly............Never mind, I know that won't happen.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Thanks for that Brian Moore.

Sorry thought I'd bring an actual thought to a thread rather than your wummery!

From what i understand in NZ each year as you progress they reduce the pool of future AB.  Players then know they are still in with a shot or your time is up move on.

The problem now is that people in NZ & SA (the two strongest player nations) the lure of playing for the country isn't the same as it once was.  SA haven't helped themselves with picking overseas players but even NZ are losing people who have been told they will be AB are leaving.  Capping at a younger age isn't the answer because no club in france, england or japan (the three money leagues) sign people to one day play for their union.  If anything a capped player is better.

You are now seejng the snowball effect where nearly every young player in these two countries know people who have moved and are loving it so them moving isn't as scary as it was for the player before.
Soon it will be expected.

The one saving grace is that right now there is only 38 top professional clubs with 24/26 second division clubs.  The academies in NH are producing in the main (scottish youngsters have to go aboard becuse they aren't good enough due to the numbers being produced v places available.

If 20 players each year come from 4N/PIs to europe that ends up being about 200 players at any one time or 5 squads.  There will be a point that they wont need as many.

Let's hope so Brendan, the number of players leaving SA this year alone is 20.

I think it's great that players move around and get to experience other cultures and playing styles. It can have a positive effect on both the player and the side he joins.

Rugby is a (relatively) short career and it's not all about internationals. 'Club' rugby is the cornerstone.

No its not. International rugby is the pinnicle. Always will be (hopefully).

Cyril wrote:I think it's great that players move around and get to experience other cultures and playing styles. It can have a positive effect on both the player and the side he joins.

Rugby is a (relatively) short career and it's not all about internationals. 'Club' rugby is the cornerstone.

Depends which side of the coin you look at, don't you think?

GunsGerms wrote:No its not. International rugby is the pinnicle. Always will be (hopefully).

I didn't say that. There's a difference between cornerstone and pinnacle.

Biltong wrote:

Cyril wrote:I think it's great that players move around and get to experience other cultures and playing styles. It can have a positive effect on both the player and the side he joins.

Rugby is a (relatively) short career and it's not all about internationals. 'Club' rugby is the cornerstone.

Depends which side of the coin you look at, don't you think?

Yeah, it does. Definitely.

This is a more or less up to date list of south Africans playing overseas. Not sure how accurate it is. But it gives you an idea.

ENGLAND
Schalk Brits
Alistair Hargreaves
Justin Melck
Nick Fenton-Wells
Ernst Joubert
Neil de Kock
Brian Mujati
Gerrit-Jan van Velze
Michael Claasens
Francois Louw
Marco Wentzel
Ashley Johnson
Errie Claassens
Corne Uys

FRANCE
Juandre Kruger
Jacques Potgeiter
Dewald Potgeiter
Chilliboy Ralephelle
Jano Vermaak
Morne Steyn
Wynand Olivier
Danie Rossouw
Morne Steyn
Bryan Habana
JP Pietersen
Gert Muller
Ross Skeate
Conrad Barnard
Dewald Senekal
Robbin Linde
Scott Spedding
Jacques-Louis Potgieter
Sam Gerber
Wicus Blaauw
Eugene van Staden
Bees Roux
Heini Adams
Michael Coetzee
Jannie Bornman
Pedrie Wannenburg
Antonie Claassen
Rory Kockott
Daniel Kotze
Gerhard Vosloo
Albertus Buckle
Ruaan du Preez
Naude Beukes
Altenstadt Hulme
Roland Bernard
Shaun Sowerby
Rudi Coetzee
Pieter Grobler
Johannes Britz
Rassie van Vuuren
Drickus Hancke
Paul Bosch
Gavin Hume
Francois van der Merwe
Bernard Le Roux
Jacques Cronje
Michael van Vuuren
Gerhard Mostert
Anton van Zyl
Bakkies Botha
Joe van Niekerk
Gary Botha
Gurthro Steenkamp
Jc Janse van Rensburg

Pro 12 (Ireland, Italy, Scotland and Wales)

Jacobus Roux
Doppies Le Grange
Andries Pretorius
Ethienne Reynecke
Danie Poolman
WP Nel
Greig Tonks
Richardt Strauss
Heinke van der Merwe
Quinn Roux
BJ Botha
Wian du Preez
CJ Stander
Jacobie Adriaanse
George Earle
Johan Snyman
Rob Herring
Johann Muller
Robbie Diack
Ruan Pienaar
Dries van Schalkwyk
Zane Kirchner

Japan

Fourie du Preez
Rory Duncan
Jaque Fourie
Pieter Grant
Ryan Kankowski

Australia

Marcel Brache
Chris Heiberg
Wilhelm Steenkamp
Sias Ebersohn
Andries Bekker

Cyril wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:No its not. International rugby is the pinnicle. Always will be (hopefully).

I didn't say that. There's a difference between cornerstone and pinnacle.

I sincerely hope that you aren't in anyway connected to the building trade Guns! Trying to use a pinnacle as a cornerstone could prove troublesome to say the least!

South Africa, the world's feeder club.

Effervescing Elephant wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:No its not. International rugby is the pinnicle. Always will be (hopefully).

I didn't say that. There's a difference between cornerstone and pinnacle.

I sincerely hope that you aren't in anyway connected to the building trade Guns! Trying to use a pinnacle as a cornerstone could prove troublesome to say the least!

I was responding to the statement that its not all about international rugby. For me it is.

I have never worked in building no.

GunsGerms wrote:

Effervescing Elephant wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:No its not. International rugby is the pinnicle. Always will be (hopefully).

I didn't say that. There's a difference between cornerstone and pinnacle.

I sincerely hope that you aren't in anyway connected to the building trade Guns! Trying to use a pinnacle as a cornerstone could prove troublesome to say the least!

 I was responding to the statement that its not all about international rugby. For me it is.

I have never worked in building no.

Surely you put in a window somewhere, fitted a cupboard or a door?

No missed that boat. I hung a door once actually. I used to like lego, does that count.

Yes, that falls under mini construction.  

Howiyah Bilser

Felt like updating the rabo part of your list there

Players no longer here
Jacobus Roux (Released by Treviso)
Wian du Preez (Released by Munster)
Heinke van der Merwe (Gone to Stade Francais)
Ethienne Reynecke (Released by Connacht)

Players Irish Qualified
Richardt Strauss
Robbie Diack
Rob Herring
Brett Wilkinson (Not on your list)

Players qualifying for Ireland before their contract ends.
CJ Stander
Quinn Roux
Danie Poolman

Player Welsh Qualified
Andries Pretorius

Players qualifying for Wales before their contract ends.
Jacobie Adriaanse
Johan Snyman
George Earle

Player Scotish Qualified
Greig Tonks (Nel will qualify before the end of his contract)

Leaving just
Zane Kirshner
BJ Botha
Johann Muller
Ruan Pienaar

As Actual losses to SA Rugby (I'm sure you are not that worried about the two lads in Italy Le Grange and Van Schalkwyk)

Most of the lads that came here young had been told that there was no place for them with the Boks

Thanks for that mate, there is currently a lot of talk on whether SA have the depth to accommodate a 6th team in Super Rugby, so it is not only about who could have been Springboks, we are short on tight heads, so WP Nel is a loss, we have no depth at lock that is experienced and CJ Stander is a serious loss.

Looking more from a domestic perspective out of that lot you could possibly put together at least two good super rugby sides, had we the opportunity to offer more players spots. Also you look at the collective knowledge and experience lost to our domestic scene.

So the impact goes a lot further than you can imagine, everything you guys gain, we lose

Biltong wrote:Thanks for that mate, there is currently a lot of talk on whether SA have the depth to accommodate a 6th team in Super Rugby, so it is not only about who could have been Springboks, we are short on tight heads, so WP Nel is a loss, we have no depth at lock that is experienced and CJ Stander is a serious loss.

Looking more from a domestic perspective out of that lot you could possibly put together at least two good super rugby sides, had we the opportunity to offer more players spots. Also you look at the collective knowledge and experience lost to our domestic scene.

So the impact goes a lot further than you can imagine, everything you guys gain, we lose

I don't envy you. The French list is ridiculous in both length and quality.
Stander was told he was not tall enough to play intl rugby for SA I heard. Not sure about Nel.

Quin Roux is huge and immensely powerful and could prove to be great but he has not done so yet.

Is 6'2 and built like a brick-Poopie considered small nowadays?

Short for a SA back row. Have a look. 6'4" seems to be entry level.

Seems a bit tall for this new 'fetcher' type back row. Smith, Pocock, McCaw, Tipuric aren't monsters but are very effective at the breakdown.

Meyer doesn't really believe in specialist fetchers though, and the problem with that is we are getting murdered at the breakdowns.

Do you think SA will continue with the high ball dominated game this year Biltong? There were signs it was in decline but a spate of poor results seemed to yank it back from oblivion.

Have no idea mate, if Meyer selects players like Lambie, van Zyl and Le Roux we will know it will be a different approach

Forgot about Van Der Heever. we have him too.

It is what it is mate, we need to find a solution of how to provide opportunity for more players in a proffessional setup and how to pay more competitive salaries. Simple as that.

Looks as if Joubert handed the Chiefs the title. It's no wonder he received boo's instead of applause.

How did he do that?

I thought he had a solid game.